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Why should you be able to see debates on DDO?

MagicAintReal
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11/23/2016 6:43:45 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
I can't stand when the error glitch on the site only effects the ability to view debates, as is the case at the time of this post, and it makes the site seem unsustainable.

Pizza hut without pizza?
Chipotle without burritos?
Whole Foods without...whole foods?

Come on DDO!
Debate.org used to mean something.

While we're on the subject of glitches, we should get wins for the forfeit glitch.

That is all.
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,819
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11/23/2016 7:17:56 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/23/2016 6:43:45 PM, MagicAintReal wrote:
I can't stand when the error glitch on the site only effects the ability to view debates, as is the case at the time of this post, and it makes the site seem unsustainable.

Pizza hut without pizza?
Chipotle without burritos?
Whole Foods without...whole foods?

Come on DDO!
Debate.org used to mean something.

While we're on the subject of glitches, we should get wins for the forfeit glitch.

That is all.

Nothing can be fixed on this site because Juggle no longer cares about it. The forfeit glitch is here to stay, as are all the poll glitches.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
famousdebater
Posts: 3,940
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11/23/2016 8:07:23 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
At 11/23/2016 8:05:48 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 11/23/2016 6:43:45 PM, MagicAintReal wrote:
http://www.edeb8.com...
^no errors, regularly updated, the admin is active and can make changes upon request, there are significantly more features.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy
Subutai
Posts: 3,187
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11/23/2016 8:24:18 PM
Posted: 1 week ago
^^^^^

And also significantly less active and a refuge for people who have been banned on DDO.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
famousdebater
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12/2/2016 5:54:54 PM
Posted: 2 days ago
At 11/23/2016 8:24:18 PM, Subutai wrote:
^^^^^

And also significantly less active and a refuge for people who have been banned on DDO.

That's a misconception and isn't the case anymore. Jifpop was banned a while back and he was the only remaining user who had been banned from DDO active on edeb8.

It may have been a refuge for people who have been banned in the past but that's no longer the case.

And whilst it's true that there is less activity, the levels of activity aren't so low that there's no conversation or debates. I can still log on at any point in the day and have a conversation. And debates are accepted just as quickly as they are on here.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy
Subutai
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12/2/2016 6:02:10 PM
Posted: 2 days ago
At 12/2/2016 5:54:54 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 11/23/2016 8:24:18 PM, Subutai wrote:
^^^^^

And also significantly less active and a refuge for people who have been banned on DDO.

That's a misconception and isn't the case anymore. Jifpop was banned a while back and he was the only remaining user who had been banned from DDO active on edeb8.

It may have been a refuge for people who have been banned in the past but that's no longer the case.

And whilst it's true that there is less activity, the levels of activity aren't so low that there's no conversation or debates. I can still log on at any point in the day and have a conversation. And debates are accepted just as quickly as they are on here.

Alright, I'll buy that Larz has finally stepped up to the plate when it comes to banning toxic people. Although he was still very slow in going about it, and there haven't been any particularly toxic people on DDO lately that have been controversially banned and that went to eDeb8 afterwards.

But the activity on eDeb8 is terrible. Look at the forums. The last post was made two hours ago. Only four forums have had new posts in the last day. The science forum hasn't had a new post in 17 days. There are only four in progress debates. There are only two debates that need judging. The activity level on DDO is at least 100 times better than that. I'm more than willing to put up with the bugs on DDO if my alternative is a place with activity as dreadful as that.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
famousdebater
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12/2/2016 9:17:05 PM
Posted: 2 days ago
At 12/2/2016 6:02:10 PM, Subutai wrote:
But the activity on eDeb8 is terrible. Look at the forums. The last post was made two hours ago. Only four forums have had new posts in the last day. The science forum hasn't had a new post in 17 days. There are only four in progress debates. There are only two debates that need judging. The activity level on DDO is at least 100 times better than that. I'm more than willing to put up with the bugs on DDO if my alternative is a place with activity as dreadful as that.

If you made a thread then people would post on it. Regardless of the topic, the reason that there haven't been many posts in the science forum is because nobody's made any threads in it recently. If you were interested in a topic that belonged in that forum then you could make a thread on it and I guarantee you that people would post in it.

If you wanted to debate a topic you could just set up the debate. The number of active debates means nothing unless those debates are any good. And whilst the community is smaller, there are no active trolls on the site so pretty much all debates are serious and get accepted quickly.

I completely understand where your arguments are coming from, it wasn't that long ago that I was making these very similar arguments. But once I spent a few months on edeb8 for the WODC I realized its evident superiority. I don't expect you to buy these arguments (I wouldn't somebody told me this 6 months ago) but it is a much better site.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy
fire_wings
Posts: 5,555
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12/2/2016 9:58:06 PM
Posted: 2 days ago
At 12/2/2016 9:17:05 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 12/2/2016 6:02:10 PM, Subutai wrote:
But the activity on eDeb8 is terrible. Look at the forums. The last post was made two hours ago. Only four forums have had new posts in the last day. The science forum hasn't had a new post in 17 days. There are only four in progress debates. There are only two debates that need judging. The activity level on DDO is at least 100 times better than that. I'm more than willing to put up with the bugs on DDO if my alternative is a place with activity as dreadful as that.

If you made a thread then people would post on it. Regardless of the topic, the reason that there haven't been many posts in the science forum is because nobody's made any threads in it recently. If you were interested in a topic that belonged in that forum then you could make a thread on it and I guarantee you that people would post in it.

If you wanted to debate a topic you could just set up the debate. The number of active debates means nothing unless those debates are any good. And whilst the community is smaller, there are no active trolls on the site so pretty much all debates are serious and get accepted quickly.

I completely understand where your arguments are coming from, it wasn't that long ago that I was making these very similar arguments. But once I spent a few months on edeb8 for the WODC I realized its evident superiority. I don't expect you to buy these arguments (I wouldn't somebody told me this 6 months ago) but it is a much better site.

It's cleaner, but DDO is better
#ALLHAILFIRETHEKINGOFTHEMISCFORUM

...it's not a new policy... it's just that DDO was built on an ancient burial ground, and that means the spirits of old rise again to cause us problems sometimes- Airmax1227

Wtf you must have an IQ of 250 if you're 11 and already decent at this- 16k

Go to sleep!!!!- missmozart

So to start off, I never committed suicide- Vaarka
fire_wings
Posts: 5,555
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12/2/2016 10:07:11 PM
Posted: 2 days ago
At 12/2/2016 10:06:11 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 12/2/2016 9:58:06 PM, fire_wings wrote:
It's cleaner, but DDO is better

Not really.

Edeb8 is cleaner and all that, but in terms of activity, DDO is better. I did for a while just be in Edeb8.
#ALLHAILFIRETHEKINGOFTHEMISCFORUM

...it's not a new policy... it's just that DDO was built on an ancient burial ground, and that means the spirits of old rise again to cause us problems sometimes- Airmax1227

Wtf you must have an IQ of 250 if you're 11 and already decent at this- 16k

Go to sleep!!!!- missmozart

So to start off, I never committed suicide- Vaarka
Subutai
Posts: 3,187
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12/2/2016 10:27:08 PM
Posted: 2 days ago
At 12/2/2016 9:17:05 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 12/2/2016 6:02:10 PM, Subutai wrote:
But the activity on eDeb8 is terrible. Look at the forums. The last post was made two hours ago. Only four forums have had new posts in the last day. The science forum hasn't had a new post in 17 days. There are only four in progress debates. There are only two debates that need judging. The activity level on DDO is at least 100 times better than that. I'm more than willing to put up with the bugs on DDO if my alternative is a place with activity as dreadful as that.

If you made a thread then people would post on it. Regardless of the topic, the reason that there haven't been many posts in the science forum is because nobody's made any threads in it recently. If you were interested in a topic that belonged in that forum then you could make a thread on it and I guarantee you that people would post in it.

If you wanted to debate a topic you could just set up the debate. The number of active debates means nothing unless those debates are any good. And whilst the community is smaller, there are no active trolls on the site so pretty much all debates are serious and get accepted quickly.

I completely understand where your arguments are coming from, it wasn't that long ago that I was making these very similar arguments. But once I spent a few months on edeb8 for the WODC I realized its evident superiority. I don't expect you to buy these arguments (I wouldn't somebody told me this 6 months ago) but it is a much better site.

I don't want to continue pelting you with statistics, but I've taken a look at eDeb8's forums and debates and I honestly just don't see anything even rivaling DDO's activity. There are very few active members, there aren't a lot of threads (although you are right that the ones that are created do generally have a good bit of activity), and there aren't a lot of debates. The quality may be better on average, but it's not worth it. There's more good, active discussion in one day on DDO than there is in a month on eDeb8.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
famousdebater
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12/3/2016 7:45:04 PM
Posted: 1 day ago
At 12/2/2016 10:07:11 PM, fire_wings wrote:
At 12/2/2016 10:06:11 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 12/2/2016 9:58:06 PM, fire_wings wrote:
It's cleaner, but DDO is better

Not really.

Edeb8 is cleaner and all that, but in terms of activity, DDO is better. I did for a while just be in Edeb8.

This topic is an 'on balance' topic. You have to see if the benefits outweigh the costs.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy
famousdebater
Posts: 3,940
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12/3/2016 7:46:46 PM
Posted: 1 day ago
At 12/2/2016 10:27:08 PM, Subutai wrote:
I don't want to continue pelting you with statistics, but I've taken a look at eDeb8's forums and debates and I honestly just don't see anything even rivaling DDO's activity. There are very few active members, there aren't a lot of threads (although you are right that the ones that are created do generally have a good bit of activity), and there aren't a lot of debates. The quality may be better on average, but it's not worth it. There's more good, active discussion in one day on DDO than there is in a month on eDeb8.

Quantity isn't quality. You'll generally get a more thoughtful discussion from edeb8 than from DDO - even if there are less people involved and there's less general activity.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy
Subutai
Posts: 3,187
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12/3/2016 7:53:56 PM
Posted: 1 day ago
At 12/3/2016 7:46:46 PM, famousdebater wrote:
Quantity isn't quality. You'll generally get a more thoughtful discussion from edeb8 than from DDO - even if there are less people involved and there's less general activity.

All I said was that the quality on eDeb8 was better on average. The activity on eDeb8 is so low that there is still much more quality discussion on DDO than there is on eDeb8. Percentages mean nothing.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
famousdebater
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12/3/2016 9:04:53 PM
Posted: 1 day ago
At 12/3/2016 7:53:56 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 12/3/2016 7:46:46 PM, famousdebater wrote:
Quantity isn't quality. You'll generally get a more thoughtful discussion from edeb8 than from DDO - even if there are less people involved and there's less general activity.

All I said was that the quality on eDeb8 was better on average. The activity on eDeb8 is so low that there is still much more quality discussion on DDO than there is on eDeb8. Percentages mean nothing.

You're saying that there's "still much more quality discussion on DDO". Yes there's more discussion, but no, there's not necessarily more quality discussion. Assessing quality is more difficult to conclude and you can't determine whether or not one site has more quality content without being active on both sites (which I am) to compare the two.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy
Subutai
Posts: 3,187
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12/3/2016 9:16:18 PM
Posted: 1 day ago
At 12/3/2016 9:04:53 PM, famousdebater wrote:
You're saying that there's "still much more quality discussion on DDO". Yes there's more discussion, but no, there's not necessarily more quality discussion. Assessing quality is more difficult to conclude and you can't determine whether or not one site has more quality content without being active on both sites (which I am) to compare the two.

You're not active on DDO anymore. Not counting your posts in this thread, your last post on DDO was over a month ago. Of course, I'm not active on eDeb8 either, but I've been very active on DDO for the last month, and I've seen much more quality discussion than I saw taking a cursory look at eDeb8's forums (which isn't hard, given that there are so few posts). If you feel similarly (but vice versa, obviously), that's fine, but my findings on quality hold just as much water as yours.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
famousdebater
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12/3/2016 10:28:46 PM
Posted: 1 day ago
At 12/3/2016 9:16:18 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 12/3/2016 9:04:53 PM, famousdebater wrote:
You're saying that there's "still much more quality discussion on DDO". Yes there's more discussion, but no, there's not necessarily more quality discussion. Assessing quality is more difficult to conclude and you can't determine whether or not one site has more quality content without being active on both sites (which I am) to compare the two.

You're not active on DDO anymore. Not counting your posts in this thread, your last post on DDO was over a month ago. Of course, I'm not active on eDeb8 either, but I've been very active on DDO for the last month, and I've seen much more quality discussion than I saw taking a cursory look at eDeb8's forums (which isn't hard, given that there are so few posts). If you feel similarly (but vice versa, obviously), that's fine, but my findings on quality hold just as much water as yours.

Whilst I don't post on DDO every day, I do log on everyday. I am aware of the general level of quality on DDO because I've been very active over the past year on the site (excluding the past few months where I've gradually accustomed to edeb8). I'm sure that the level of quality on DDO hasn't drastically changed in the past month (as I've looked through most of the active threads). I'm also incredibly active on edeb8 so I am able to compare them in a better way than you can - since you've only taken a "cursory look" at edeb8s forums.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy
fire_wings
Posts: 5,555
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12/4/2016 8:19:03 AM
Posted: 18 hours ago
At 12/3/2016 7:45:04 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 12/2/2016 10:07:11 PM, fire_wings wrote:
At 12/2/2016 10:06:11 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 12/2/2016 9:58:06 PM, fire_wings wrote:
It's cleaner, but DDO is better

Not really.

Edeb8 is cleaner and all that, but in terms of activity, DDO is better. I did for a while just be in Edeb8.

This topic is an 'on balance' topic. You have to see if the benefits outweigh the costs.

Yeah
#ALLHAILFIRETHEKINGOFTHEMISCFORUM

...it's not a new policy... it's just that DDO was built on an ancient burial ground, and that means the spirits of old rise again to cause us problems sometimes- Airmax1227

Wtf you must have an IQ of 250 if you're 11 and already decent at this- 16k

Go to sleep!!!!- missmozart

So to start off, I never committed suicide- Vaarka
Subutai
Posts: 3,187
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12/4/2016 10:36:05 AM
Posted: 16 hours ago
At 12/3/2016 10:28:46 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 12/3/2016 9:16:18 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 12/3/2016 9:04:53 PM, famousdebater wrote:
You're saying that there's "still much more quality discussion on DDO". Yes there's more discussion, but no, there's not necessarily more quality discussion. Assessing quality is more difficult to conclude and you can't determine whether or not one site has more quality content without being active on both sites (which I am) to compare the two.

You're not active on DDO anymore. Not counting your posts in this thread, your last post on DDO was over a month ago. Of course, I'm not active on eDeb8 either, but I've been very active on DDO for the last month, and I've seen much more quality discussion than I saw taking a cursory look at eDeb8's forums (which isn't hard, given that there are so few posts). If you feel similarly (but vice versa, obviously), that's fine, but my findings on quality hold just as much water as yours.

Whilst I don't post on DDO every day, I do log on everyday. I am aware of the general level of quality on DDO because I've been very active over the past year on the site (excluding the past few months where I've gradually accustomed to edeb8). I'm sure that the level of quality on DDO hasn't drastically changed in the past month (as I've looked through most of the active threads). I'm also incredibly active on edeb8 so I am able to compare them in a better way than you can - since you've only taken a "cursory look" at edeb8s forums.

eDeb8's activity level is so low that you really only need a cursory look at it to figure out that it's activity level is far below that of DDO's, even considering just quality discussion. I'm not sure what you consider "activity" or "quality", but I can't possibly see how you could put eDeb8's activity level, or even quality activity level, on the same plane as DDO's.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
famousdebater
Posts: 3,940
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12/4/2016 6:23:13 PM
Posted: 8 hours ago
At 12/4/2016 10:36:05 AM, Subutai wrote:
At 12/3/2016 10:28:46 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 12/3/2016 9:16:18 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 12/3/2016 9:04:53 PM, famousdebater wrote:
You're saying that there's "still much more quality discussion on DDO". Yes there's more discussion, but no, there's not necessarily more quality discussion. Assessing quality is more difficult to conclude and you can't determine whether or not one site has more quality content without being active on both sites (which I am) to compare the two.

You're not active on DDO anymore. Not counting your posts in this thread, your last post on DDO was over a month ago. Of course, I'm not active on eDeb8 either, but I've been very active on DDO for the last month, and I've seen much more quality discussion than I saw taking a cursory look at eDeb8's forums (which isn't hard, given that there are so few posts). If you feel similarly (but vice versa, obviously), that's fine, but my findings on quality hold just as much water as yours.

Whilst I don't post on DDO every day, I do log on everyday. I am aware of the general level of quality on DDO because I've been very active over the past year on the site (excluding the past few months where I've gradually accustomed to edeb8). I'm sure that the level of quality on DDO hasn't drastically changed in the past month (as I've looked through most of the active threads). I'm also incredibly active on edeb8 so I am able to compare them in a better way than you can - since you've only taken a "cursory look" at edeb8s forums.

eDeb8's activity level is so low that you really only need a cursory look at it to figure out that it's activity level is far below that of DDO's, even considering just quality discussion. I'm not sure what you consider "activity" or "quality", but I can't possibly see how you could put eDeb8's activity level, or even quality activity level, on the same plane as DDO's.

We aren't talking about activity. I fully concede that edeb8 is not as active as DDO. I'm talking about the quality of the discussion on the site. And you still haven't given one valid reason to support your view that the quality of edeb8 isn't on the same plane as DDO.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy
Subutai
Posts: 3,187
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12/4/2016 8:04:17 PM
Posted: 6 hours ago
At 12/4/2016 6:23:13 PM, famousdebater wrote:
We aren't talking about activity. I fully concede that edeb8 is not as active as DDO. I'm talking about the quality of the discussion on the site. And you still haven't given one valid reason to support your view that the quality of edeb8 isn't on the same plane as DDO.

You're missing my point. Again, I think that eDeb8 has better quality discussion on average, but I also think that DDO has so much more overall discussion that it has more gross quality discussion. Like I said earlier, percentages mean nothing when the two base values are so disparate.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
famousdebater
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12/4/2016 8:47:42 PM
Posted: 5 hours ago
At 12/4/2016 8:04:17 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 12/4/2016 6:23:13 PM, famousdebater wrote:
We aren't talking about activity. I fully concede that edeb8 is not as active as DDO. I'm talking about the quality of the discussion on the site. And you still haven't given one valid reason to support your view that the quality of edeb8 isn't on the same plane as DDO.

You're missing my point. Again, I think that eDeb8 has better quality discussion on average, but I also think that DDO has so much more overall discussion that it has more gross quality discussion. Like I said earlier, percentages mean nothing when the two base values are so disparate.

Alright, let me put this into a syllogism based on things that we both seem to agree upon:

P1: edeb8 has better quality discussion on average.
P2: There is less activity on edeb8 compared to DDO.
P3: On edeb8 despite there being lower activity, the vast majority of serious threads receive good activity.
P4: On DDO the vast majority of serious threads receive good activity.
C1: If you made a thread on edeb8 you are likely to get better quality discussion (based on P1) and you are likely to receive good activity (based on P3).
C2: If you made a serious thread on DDO you are likely to have a worse discussion than edeb8 (based on P1) and you are likely to get good activity (based on P4)


Overall Conclusion: Whilst there are more threads on DDO, if you were to move to edeb8 you'd generally have better discussions. Your threads that you make will still get good activity but they will also have better quality than if you made that thread on DDO.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy
Subutai
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12/4/2016 9:21:46 PM
Posted: 5 hours ago
At 12/4/2016 8:47:42 PM, famousdebater wrote:
Alright, let me put this into a syllogism based on things that we both seem to agree upon:

P1: edeb8 has better quality discussion on average.
P2: There is less activity on edeb8 compared to DDO.
P3: On edeb8 despite there being lower activity, the vast majority of serious threads receive good activity.
P4: On DDO the vast majority of serious threads receive good activity.
C1: If you made a thread on edeb8 you are likely to get better quality discussion (based on P1) and you are likely to receive good activity (based on P3).
C2: If you made a serious thread on DDO you are likely to have a worse discussion than edeb8 (based on P1) and you are likely to get good activity (based on P4)


Overall Conclusion: Whilst there are more threads on DDO, if you were to move to edeb8 you'd generally have better discussions. Your threads that you make will still get good activity but they will also have better quality than if you made that thread on DDO.

You're still missing my point. The problem with your syllogism is that it's still falsely equivocating averages versus totals. Let me use numbers to clarify my point. Note that I made up the numbers, but the conclusion I will draw from them will still be valid.

Consider a scenario where eDeb8 has an average quality level (defined as the average percentage of "quality" posts) of 70% and DDO has an average quality level of 40%. Now assume that 100 posts are made a day on eDeb8, while 1000 posts are made a day on DDO. That means that, on average, each day, 70 quality posts are made on eDeb8, while 400 quality posts are made on DDO. So, while on eDeb8, you have a better chance of seeing quality posts, there's still more quality discussion overall on DDO.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.