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Marauder
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2/28/2011 5:04:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...

Lots people keep telling how there so worried about the gas prices going up to $5.00 per gallon. but considering that there is some speculation that puts running on these http://www.chevrolet.com... is close too the equivalent of .49 cent per gallon in mileage is there really much to fear of a $5.00 gas price? we should just adapt and get better cars that plug into the wall. the electric companies prices compared to gas prices have been way more stable anyway right? they might go up and down, but not to the degree the gas prices do.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Ore_Ele
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2/28/2011 5:11:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
umm...

running out and getting electric cars is not something that most people can do over a weekend.

Also, having an electric car means you have to have a place to charge it, I.E. a garage so only home owners really have that option.

We also have that as our transportation demands shift to our energy grid, electric prices will go up, and that will effect everyone, including those that don't use electric cars.

What would be ideal, would be to do everything possible to stablize gas prices as much as possible to allow for a long, painless transition from gas to electric. Rather than a sudden, jerky, painful transition.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Greyparrot
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2/28/2011 5:14:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 5:11:49 PM, OreEle wrote:
umm...

running out and getting electric cars is not something that most people can do over a weekend.

Also, having an electric car means you have to have a place to charge it, I.E. a garage so only home owners really have that option.

We also have that as our transportation demands shift to our energy grid, electric prices will go up, and that will effect everyone, including those that don't use electric cars.

What would be ideal, would be to do everything possible to stablize gas prices as much as possible to allow for a long, painless transition from gas to electric. Rather than a sudden, jerky, painful transition.

Gasoline would have to be $15.00 a gallon to make an electric car fiscally responsible given current battery technology. It is crazy expensive for those batteries.
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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2/28/2011 5:26:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 5:14:27 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Gasoline would have to be $15.00 a gallon to make an electric car fiscally responsible given current battery technology. It is crazy expensive for those batteries.

And they're not environmentally friendly either, because they use coal power.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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2/28/2011 5:53:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 5:14:27 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/28/2011 5:11:49 PM, OreEle wrote:
umm...

running out and getting electric cars is not something that most people can do over a weekend.

Also, having an electric car means you have to have a place to charge it, I.E. a garage so only home owners really have that option.

We also have that as our transportation demands shift to our energy grid, electric prices will go up, and that will effect everyone, including those that don't use electric cars.

What would be ideal, would be to do everything possible to stablize gas prices as much as possible to allow for a long, painless transition from gas to electric. Rather than a sudden, jerky, painful transition.

Gasoline would have to be $15.00 a gallon to make an electric car fiscally responsible given current battery technology. It is crazy expensive for those batteries.

...you have no idea what you're talking about do you.

It uses a lithium-ion battery (only 24 kWh), which costs around $10,000 at current market prices (given that they are raising the demand, and so supply, the price is likely to go down, as it does with everything in several years).

Lithum-Ion batteries are good for about 1000 charges.

At 100 miles per charge, that gives a lifetime use of about 100,000 miles (and a total energy use of 24,000 kWh).

Current market rate of electricity is about 10 cents per kWh, so a total cost of $2,400 for the electricity and $10,000 for the battery (which in 5 years, 100,000 miles is likely to go down, but we'll use these numbers).

That brings the total cost to $12,400.

Now on a gas car we have the gas, tranny oil, and motor oil. Let also compare it to three different cars. Car A gets 20 miles to the gallon, B gets 30, and C gets 40.

Car A will go through 5,000 gallons of gas, 3 tranny fluid changes, and about 30 oil changes. In order to reach the same cost ($12,400), gas would have to be $2.33 per gallon (an oil change being $20, and a tranny fluid change being $50).

Car B would need gas prices to be at $3.88 per gallon to ballance out. And Car C would need them to be $4.66

No where close to the $15.00 range claimed.

Also, just like VCRs cost over $1,000 dollar when they first came out. The batteries for electric cars will fall in price by a boat load. Once we start seeing large production levels for these batteries, we'll probably see 24 kWh batteries for under $5,000.

But in time, we'll also likely see other batteries, other then Lithium-Ion.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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2/28/2011 6:21:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It'd be alright if we got our electricity from nuclear power or something, but majority of our electricity comes from burning coal. I will admit I'd rather my car run on coal from Pennsylvania than oil from Saudi Arabia, but neither is sustainable.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Ore_Ele
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2/28/2011 6:25:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 6:21:34 PM, lewis20 wrote:
It'd be alright if we got our electricity from nuclear power or something, but majority of our electricity comes from burning coal. I will admit I'd rather my car run on coal from Pennsylvania than oil from Saudi Arabia, but neither is sustainable.

That's not an issue with the car, that is an issue with our energy infrastructure. I get my energy from damns and windmills. But that doesn't change the effectiveness of the car.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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2/28/2011 6:30:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 5:04:05 PM, Marauder wrote:
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com...

Lots people keep telling how there so worried about the gas prices going up to $5.00 per gallon. but considering that there is some speculation that puts running on these http://www.chevrolet.com... is close too the equivalent of .49 cent per gallon in mileage is there really much to fear of a $5.00 gas price? we should just adapt and get better cars that plug into the wall. the electric companies prices compared to gas prices have been way more stable anyway right? they might go up and down, but not to the degree the gas prices do.:

Yeah, but in the meantime it adds up.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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2/28/2011 6:42:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 6:25:44 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 2/28/2011 6:21:34 PM, lewis20 wrote:
It'd be alright if we got our electricity from nuclear power or something, but majority of our electricity comes from burning coal. I will admit I'd rather my car run on coal from Pennsylvania than oil from Saudi Arabia, but neither is sustainable.

That's not an issue with the car, that is an issue with our energy infrastructure. I get my energy from damns and windmills. But that doesn't change the effectiveness of the car.

Ya...I'm talking about the issue of gas prices vs electric prices, didn't mention anything about your post and the cost of electric cars.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,324
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2/28/2011 9:42:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 6:25:44 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 2/28/2011 6:21:34 PM, lewis20 wrote:
It'd be alright if we got our electricity from nuclear power or something, but majority of our electricity comes from burning coal. I will admit I'd rather my car run on coal from Pennsylvania than oil from Saudi Arabia, but neither is sustainable.

That's not an issue with the car, that is an issue with our energy infrastructure. I get my energy from damns and windmills. But that doesn't change the effectiveness of the car.

I had gotten a figure of $20,000 for a typical 300 mile range battery, maybe the prices are dropping alot. Also, doesn't the range decrease with battery age? Everything I learned about batteries is that successive recharges lower the potential... are you sure you are telling the whole story?
Greyparrot
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2/28/2011 10:15:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Also, there's no way you can seriously consider current electricity prices to remain the same for two reasons, 1) increased demand... 2) Government must have a replacement for the gasoline tax, so you can be sure if half of what you pay at the pump is from taxes, then half coming out of your wall to your electric car is going to somehow be taken by the government to pay for roads and maintenance.
Your figures are fuzzy and you didn't explain the range of your 10,000 battery.
Rob1_Billion
Posts: 1,300
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2/28/2011 11:27:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 5:11:49 PM, OreEle wrote:
umm...

running out and getting electric cars is not something that most people can do over a weekend.

Also, having an electric car means you have to have a place to charge it, I.E. a garage so only home owners really have that option.

It's kind of frustrating to wait for us to get something we had over a hundred years ago. NY city had a fleet of electric taxis with the charging infrastructure and all, before the turn of the 20th century - but guess what?
kfc
Rob1_Billion
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2/28/2011 11:28:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 5:26:40 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 2/28/2011 5:14:27 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Gasoline would have to be $15.00 a gallon to make an electric car fiscally responsible given current battery technology. It is crazy expensive for those batteries.

And they're not environmentally friendly either, because they use coal power.

if wind, photo, and geo sources were being properly utilized, we wouldn't need to.
kfc
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,324
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2/28/2011 11:31:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 11:28:33 PM, Rob1_Billion wrote:
At 2/28/2011 5:26:40 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 2/28/2011 5:14:27 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Gasoline would have to be $15.00 a gallon to make an electric car fiscally responsible given current battery technology. It is crazy expensive for those batteries.

And they're not environmentally friendly either, because they use coal power.

if wind, photo, and geo sources were being properly utilized, we wouldn't need to.

Hi Caramel.. Do you like Nuclear Plant electricity for cars like France?
Rob1_Billion
Posts: 1,300
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3/1/2011 10:39:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 11:31:42 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/28/2011 11:28:33 PM, Rob1_Billion wrote:
At 2/28/2011 5:26:40 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 2/28/2011 5:14:27 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Gasoline would have to be $15.00 a gallon to make an electric car fiscally responsible given current battery technology. It is crazy expensive for those batteries.

And they're not environmentally friendly either, because they use coal power.

if wind, photo, and geo sources were being properly utilized, we wouldn't need to.

Hi Caramel.. Do you like Nuclear Plant electricity for cars like France?

I have issues with creating nuclear waste, although it is concievable that if we ever do construct a society someday that doesn't prompt the rest of the world to want us all to die slow horrible deaths, that this would be feasible as the nuclear waste can then be reused without threat of weapons construction. At this point, however, I would rather see us use the afore-mentioned sustainable energy sources, and perhaps a few other more creative ones based on biology. In the end, Parrot, I think you will find that we are going to be harnassing biology for every aspect of technology. It's just too damn efficient not to use. Every need we have is already solved somewhere in the natural world without us having to invent flux capacitors and warp engines to achieve our goals. My system of government is based on the natural world as well - that of bees and ants.
kfc
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,324
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3/1/2011 12:38:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/1/2011 10:39:27 AM, Rob1_Billion wrote:
At 2/28/2011 11:31:42 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/28/2011 11:28:33 PM, Rob1_Billion wrote:
At 2/28/2011 5:26:40 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 2/28/2011 5:14:27 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Gasoline would have to be $15.00 a gallon to make an electric car fiscally responsible given current battery technology. It is crazy expensive for those batteries.

And they're not environmentally friendly either, because they use coal power.

if wind, photo, and geo sources were being properly utilized, we wouldn't need to.

Hi Caramel.. Do you like Nuclear Plant electricity for cars like France?

I have issues with creating nuclear waste, although it is concievable that if we ever do construct a society someday that doesn't prompt the rest of the world to want us all to die slow horrible deaths, that this would be feasible as the nuclear waste can then be reused without threat of weapons construction. At this point, however, I would rather see us use the afore-mentioned sustainable energy sources, and perhaps a few other more creative ones based on biology. In the end, Parrot, I think you will find that we are going to be harnassing biology for every aspect of technology. It's just too damn efficient not to use. Every need we have is already solved somewhere in the natural world without us having to invent flux capacitors and warp engines to achieve our goals. My system of government is based on the natural world as well - that of bees and ants.

Well it is easier now for man to overcome nature with concrete, oil, and steel than to use biological barriers to battle the never ending battle of nature versus man.
Marauder
Posts: 3,271
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3/1/2011 12:49:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 5:26:40 PM, wjmelements wrote:
At 2/28/2011 5:14:27 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Gasoline would have to be $15.00 a gallon to make an electric car fiscally responsible given current battery technology. It is crazy expensive for those batteries.

And they're not environmentally friendly either, because they use coal power.

you know, you house might just be powered by a combination of PV pannels and a small wind turbine you had privately installed as a wise long term investment. So actually, no they are not necessarily powered by coal, and even if they were its a switch from being powered by gas. both options suck for the environment.

And if your really concerned for saving CO2 emissions from your local coal power factory, just plug your car in at night since they burn tons of coal then anyway even though people aren't using enough power to justify it. Its more expensive to cool off the furnaces and start them back up in time for peak hours than it is to simply run them at peak power demand all day and night. So plugging in your electric car at night does not add to the use of coal, just makes use of wasted power that's made from coal anyway.
One act of Rebellion created all the darkness and evil in the world; One life of Total Obedience created a path back to eternity and God.

A Scout is Obedient.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/1/2011 12:56:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 9:42:54 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/28/2011 6:25:44 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 2/28/2011 6:21:34 PM, lewis20 wrote:
It'd be alright if we got our electricity from nuclear power or something, but majority of our electricity comes from burning coal. I will admit I'd rather my car run on coal from Pennsylvania than oil from Saudi Arabia, but neither is sustainable.

That's not an issue with the car, that is an issue with our energy infrastructure. I get my energy from damns and windmills. But that doesn't change the effectiveness of the car.

I had gotten a figure of $20,000 for a typical 300 mile range battery, maybe the prices are dropping alot. Also, doesn't the range decrease with battery age? Everything I learned about batteries is that successive recharges lower the potential... are you sure you are telling the whole story?

The leaf only uses a 100 mile range battery.

And yes, recharging a battery slowly lowers its total holding capasity. However, Lithium out preforms the lead batteries that are used by cars currenty (about 50% more recharges) for starting (you know, that 12 V battery, that gets used and charged every single day, but still works 15 years laters).

However, there are other Lithium battery technology that is improving far beyond what we currently have. Lithium film, which has an estimated 40,000 recharges (about 40 times that of our current Li batteries), though it's downside is that it can not release energy very quickly (about 1/2 as fast as current Li batteries, so it would be ideal for slow and steady, like as a battery for your home's electricity).

There is also Li Titanate, which gets about 9,000 recharges and can release energy at about 2.5 times Li Ion, but it is heavier (so it is better for bursts of power, rather then long drives).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,324
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3/1/2011 12:59:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 5:53:53 PM, OreEle wrote:


...you have no idea what you're talking about do you.

It uses a lithium-ion battery (only 24 kWh), which costs around $10,000 at current market prices (given that they are raising the demand, and so supply, the price is likely to go down, as it does with everything in several years).

Lithum-Ion batteries are good for about 1000 charges.

At 100 miles per charge, that gives a lifetime use of about 100,000 miles (and a total energy use of 24,000 kWh).

Current market rate of electricity is about 10 cents per kWh, so a total cost of $2,400 for the electricity and $10,000 for the battery (which in 5 years, 100,000 miles is likely to go down, but we'll use these numbers).

That brings the total cost to $12,400.

Now on a gas car we have the gas, tranny oil, and motor oil. Let also compare it to three different cars. Car A gets 20 miles to the gallon, B gets 30, and C gets 40.

Car A will go through 5,000 gallons of gas, 3 tranny fluid changes, and about 30 oil changes. In order to reach the same cost ($12,400), gas would have to be $2.33 per gallon (an oil change being $20, and a tranny fluid change being $50).

Car B would need gas prices to be at $3.88 per gallon to ballance out. And Car C would need them to be $4.66

No where close to the $15.00 range claimed.

Also, just like VCRs cost over $1,000 dollar when they first came out. The batteries for electric cars will fall in price by a boat load. Once we start seeing large production levels for these batteries, we'll probably see 24 kWh batteries for under $5,000.

But in time, we'll also likely see other batteries, other then Lithium-Ion.

You also have not even grasped the concept that battery output by no means equates to battery input while charging. A typical battery will have to be supplied more volts in order to recharge it in the first place, that is just basic physics man, come on oreEle. You know better than this. Instead of trying to skew things to fit your agenda, why don't you state all the facts huh? Such as the diminishing returns on charging a battery over years, as well as increased wasted electricity to top a battery off as it nears a full charge. One of the Firestone battery sources says it takes 1275 watts to charge up a battery that outputs 720 watts. Maybe you have a hidden patent on a perpetual battery machine with no wasted energy in that engine, but I don't buy it. I hope no one else does either.
Ore_Ele
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3/1/2011 1:05:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/28/2011 10:15:10 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Also, there's no way you can seriously consider current electricity prices to remain the same for two reasons, 1) increased demand... 2) Government must have a replacement for the gasoline tax, so you can be sure if half of what you pay at the pump is from taxes, then half coming out of your wall to your electric car is going to somehow be taken by the government to pay for roads and maintenance.
Your figures are fuzzy and you didn't explain the range of your 10,000 battery.

What 10,000 battery?

The Li-ion is rated at 1,000 recharges, if the range of the battery is 100 miles (as it is on the leaf), then that gives a total battery range of 100,000 miles before the battery should be replaced.

This also doesn't consider other wear and tear that happens on piston engines (a major advantage to jets over prop planes back in the 50's).

However, for the two points.

1) Increase supply, I support this regardless of if we switch to electric cars.
2) Our current fuel tax is only 18.4 cents per gallon by the feds (it then varies from state to state), but averages 48.1 cents per gallon, or less then 15% of the total cost of the gas.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,324
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3/1/2011 1:12:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/1/2011 1:05:42 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 2/28/2011 10:15:10 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Also, there's no way you can seriously consider current electricity prices to remain the same for two reasons, 1) increased demand... 2) Government must have a replacement for the gasoline tax, so you can be sure if half of what you pay at the pump is from taxes, then half coming out of your wall to your electric car is going to somehow be taken by the government to pay for roads and maintenance.
Your figures are fuzzy and you didn't explain the range of your 10,000 battery.

What 10,000 battery?

The Li-ion is rated at 1,000 recharges, if the range of the battery is 100 miles (as it is on the leaf), then that gives a total battery range of 100,000 miles before the battery should be replaced.

This also doesn't consider other wear and tear that happens on piston engines (a major advantage to jets over prop planes back in the 50's).

However, for the two points.

1) Increase supply, I support this regardless of if we switch to electric cars.
2) Our current fuel tax is only 18.4 cents per gallon by the feds (it then varies from state to state), but averages 48.1 cents per gallon, or less then 15% of the total cost of the gas.

Okay those are very good rebuttals, however, you could always simply decrease the range of the electric car to make it economically feasible to replace gas cars.
BUT many people need to replace their 300 mile range gas car with an equivalent, even if it is just for visiting relatives across the state. At current battery technology an prices, a 300 mile range electric care is one hefty investment.

But I do agree, science is really vamping up the battery technology as demand is increasing, just like they vamped up petroleum technology in 1859 to provide cheap kerosene.
Ore_Ele
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3/1/2011 1:14:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/1/2011 12:59:59 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 2/28/2011 5:53:53 PM, OreEle wrote:


...you have no idea what you're talking about do you.

It uses a lithium-ion battery (only 24 kWh), which costs around $10,000 at current market prices (given that they are raising the demand, and so supply, the price is likely to go down, as it does with everything in several years).

Lithum-Ion batteries are good for about 1000 charges.

At 100 miles per charge, that gives a lifetime use of about 100,000 miles (and a total energy use of 24,000 kWh).

Current market rate of electricity is about 10 cents per kWh, so a total cost of $2,400 for the electricity and $10,000 for the battery (which in 5 years, 100,000 miles is likely to go down, but we'll use these numbers).

That brings the total cost to $12,400.

Now on a gas car we have the gas, tranny oil, and motor oil. Let also compare it to three different cars. Car A gets 20 miles to the gallon, B gets 30, and C gets 40.

Car A will go through 5,000 gallons of gas, 3 tranny fluid changes, and about 30 oil changes. In order to reach the same cost ($12,400), gas would have to be $2.33 per gallon (an oil change being $20, and a tranny fluid change being $50).

Car B would need gas prices to be at $3.88 per gallon to ballance out. And Car C would need them to be $4.66

No where close to the $15.00 range claimed.

Also, just like VCRs cost over $1,000 dollar when they first came out. The batteries for electric cars will fall in price by a boat load. Once we start seeing large production levels for these batteries, we'll probably see 24 kWh batteries for under $5,000.

But in time, we'll also likely see other batteries, other then Lithium-Ion.

You also have not even grasped the concept that battery output by no means equates to battery input while charging. A typical battery will have to be supplied more volts in order to recharge it in the first place, that is just basic physics man, come on oreEle. You know better than this. Instead of trying to skew things to fit your agenda, why don't you state all the facts huh? Such as the diminishing returns on charging a battery over years, as well as increased wasted electricity to top a battery off as it nears a full charge. One of the Firestone battery sources says it takes 1275 watts to charge up a battery that outputs 720 watts. Maybe you have a hidden patent on a perpetual battery machine with no wasted energy in that engine, but I don't buy it. I hope no one else does either.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

http://www.pluginhighway.ca...

For the Li-ion battery, "The fully charged state for a Li-ion cell is typically 4.2V, and the coulombic efficiency is very close to 100% at this point."

What you'll also find, is that slower charges are more efficient than fast ones.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/1/2011 1:20:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/1/2011 1:12:09 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 3/1/2011 1:05:42 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 2/28/2011 10:15:10 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Also, there's no way you can seriously consider current electricity prices to remain the same for two reasons, 1) increased demand... 2) Government must have a replacement for the gasoline tax, so you can be sure if half of what you pay at the pump is from taxes, then half coming out of your wall to your electric car is going to somehow be taken by the government to pay for roads and maintenance.
Your figures are fuzzy and you didn't explain the range of your 10,000 battery.

What 10,000 battery?

The Li-ion is rated at 1,000 recharges, if the range of the battery is 100 miles (as it is on the leaf), then that gives a total battery range of 100,000 miles before the battery should be replaced.

This also doesn't consider other wear and tear that happens on piston engines (a major advantage to jets over prop planes back in the 50's).

However, for the two points.

1) Increase supply, I support this regardless of if we switch to electric cars.
2) Our current fuel tax is only 18.4 cents per gallon by the feds (it then varies from state to state), but averages 48.1 cents per gallon, or less then 15% of the total cost of the gas.

Okay those are very good rebuttals, however, you could always simply decrease the range of the electric car to make it economically feasible to replace gas cars.
BUT many people need to replace their 300 mile range gas car with an equivalent, even if it is just for visiting relatives across the state. At current battery technology an prices, a 300 mile range electric care is one hefty investment.

But I do agree, science is really vamping up the battery technology as demand is increasing, just like they vamped up petroleum technology in 1859 to provide cheap kerosene.

Easy solution. And one that I've recommended before (for a reason that I'll bring up).

Have a primamry small battery and a secondard large battery. (I'd personally say like a 50 mile range and a 500 mile range).

The reason for this is because all batteries bleed energy (not much, but some). Meaning that if you charge a battery and let it sit and do nothing for 6 months, it won't be full when you get back to it. The colder the weather, the better it works.

Li-ion is 8% at 21C (15% at 40C) per month of energy lost.

That means that storing the energy costs you money over time. So you don't want to have a big battery, just leaking off energy.

So you keep 1 big battery that is empty (and empty battery can't lose energy that it doesn't have), then, it you decide that for christmas you want to visit relatives that are 200 miles away (like from Portland to Seattle, is one that I sometimes do, though I usually just take the train).

You plug your big battery in the night before to charge it (or even the afternoon before) and then take it with you. That way you have the range when you need it, without the energy leaking when you don't.
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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,324
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3/1/2011 1:20:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/1/2011 1:14:07 PM, OreEle wrote:

I'm sorry you feel that way.

http://www.pluginhighway.ca...

For the Li-ion battery, "The fully charged state for a Li-ion cell is typically 4.2V, and the coulombic efficiency is very close to 100% at this point."

What you'll also find, is that slower charges are more efficient than fast ones.

Its about 96% that is pretty efficient. You could save a substantial amount of money doing a slow charge overnight rather than using a 4 hour fast charger.
Greyparrot
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3/1/2011 1:26:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
That was one hell of a detailed summary about entropy and charge cycles.
Also the decreased efficiency due to increased duty cycle eccentricity is interesting as it drops from 96% to 80% efficiency. Neat source!
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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3/2/2011 10:28:38 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/1/2011 2:48:07 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
Actually OreEle, you could probably make this work if there was a supplier willing to RENT a 300 mile range battery.

That would also be an option, I suppose there are a lot of various markets which would pop up.

One thing that I think would be since fueling stations (which would probably be charging market rate for energy plus 20% or something) would take about 30 minutes for a 70% charge and 60 minutes for a 90% charge, they would likely only be along major highways (like current truck stops and rest stops) and have resteraunts pop up, so you can go in, sit down and eat while charging, rather then the fast-in, fast-out quickie mart.
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brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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3/2/2011 1:13:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
You're lucky! Here in Britain petrol costs an average of £1.35 per litre: that's £5.12 ($8.22) per gallon.

This is particularly bad news for me as my car has 6750cc V8 engine and only does 15mpg at best.

The 600 mile round trip I did at the weekend cost me £250 ($400) in fuel.
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Ore_Ele
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3/2/2011 1:22:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/2/2011 1:13:58 PM, brian_eggleston wrote:
You're lucky! Here in Britain petrol costs an average of £1.35 per litre: that's £5.12 ($8.22) per gallon.

This is particularly bad news for me as my car has 6750cc V8 engine and only does 15mpg at best.

The 600 mile round trip I did at the weekend cost me £250 ($400) in fuel.

Sounds like it would be worth your while to get a different car.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"