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10 Year old model

Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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8/9/2011 12:26:15 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
http://www.cnn.com...

Yes. As if it weren't enough that 10 year olds look unhealthily up to being pretty like adult movie stars. Now even 10 year olds and much younger girls have become sexual objects in our western part of the world. No longer do girls need to grow up to become models. All they have to do is see that their own generation is accepted as models, and there we go: a six year old wanting to be a model. Or at least, resemble one. She thinks that's a requirement for being accepted by other people, males in particular.

We already know what kind of issues are plaguing our societies by the fact that good looks have become as important anything else. Maybe more. Anorexia is one of the many issues. I'm not going to mention other ones because they are obvious.

Such idiocy. One should feel sorry for the abused girl (or "model"). By the way, look at her body in the video. She looks like a video game character. Can't these idiot fashion magazines use a 3D designer to create random dolls for them instead of using make-up, photoshop, and all sorts of computer effects on a real human being? Bastards.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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8/9/2011 1:14:01 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Premise: She consents.

Conclusion: What abuse?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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8/9/2011 1:21:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/9/2011 1:14:01 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Premise: She consents.

Conclusion: What abuse?

well... she probably doesn't quite understand the implications of the poses she's being put into.. and coming to know as she grows up... coming to Understand what sick fcks her parents/guardians and their weirdo fashion friends convinced her to do when she was little will probably Screw her head up pretty good so she's a nutter...

that's kind of not very nice.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Rockylightning
Posts: 2,862
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8/9/2011 2:35:13 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/9/2011 1:21:03 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 8/9/2011 1:14:01 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Premise: She consents.

Too young to know better. Probably forced by parents.


Conclusion: What abuse?

well... she probably doesn't quite understand the implications of the poses she's being put into.. and coming to know as she grows up... coming to Understand what sick fcks her parents/guardians and their weirdo fashion friends convinced her to do when she was little will probably Screw her head up pretty good so she's a nutter...

that's kind of not very nice.

Voiced my thoughts.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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8/9/2011 2:51:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/9/2011 1:14:01 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Premise: She consents.

Conclusion: What abuse?
Are you saying that a 10-year-old consents with full awareness of the consequences of what she is doing? Or are you one of the idiot "self-ownership" promoters who don't know what they're talking about?
Mirza
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8/9/2011 2:53:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Also, Mr. Banana, just because someone consents to something doesn't mean it has anything to do with what I freaking said, understand? I said it comes with consequences. Nowhere did I mention "rights." Sure, let her do it. If her parents can't protect her, neither can the government. I'm saying what the society suffers from, i.e., something like this. You speak of consent.

Get away from me please.
Rockylightning
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8/9/2011 3:22:02 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/9/2011 2:53:29 AM, Mirza wrote:
Also, Mr. Banana, just because someone consents to something doesn't mean it has anything to do with what I freaking said, understand? I said it comes with consequences. Nowhere did I mention "rights." Sure, let her do it. If her parents can't protect her, neither can the government. I'm saying what the society suffers from, i.e., something like this. You speak of consent.

Get away from me please.

Do not let the beast upset you. That is how it feeds.
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
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8/9/2011 5:54:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/9/2011 1:14:01 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Premise: She consents.

Conclusion: What abuse?

A. Beating your wife is still abuse, even if she thinks she deserves it and consents.
B. She's ten years old and very likely doesn't understand what she's consenting too.

However, there are far more important issues for society to face than 10 year old fashion models. If it is abuse, there is far worse abuse to be tackled.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/9/2011 6:34:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/9/2011 1:14:01 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Premise: She consents.

Conclusion: What abuse?

you're a very peculiar one aren't you? A 10 year old doesn't quite know enough about the world to truly consent to anything.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
PARADIGM_L0ST
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8/9/2011 7:29:52 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/9/2011 1:14:01 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Premise: She consents.

Conclusion: What abuse?:

Does a 10-year old girl have the wherewithal to know what exactly she is consenting to?
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
PARADIGM_L0ST
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8/9/2011 7:33:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/9/2011 2:53:29 AM, Mirza wrote:
Also, Mr. Banana, just because someone consents to something doesn't mean it has anything to do with what I freaking said, understand? I said it comes with consequences. Nowhere did I mention "rights." Sure, let her do it. If her parents can't protect her, neither can the government. I'm saying what the society suffers from, i.e., something like this. You speak of consent.

Get away from me please.:

Is it me or has Mirza seemed far less patient and far more agitated as of late?
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/9/2011 7:58:52 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Link does not work.

Also what is this... a 10 year old is too young to be a model, but old enough to get married?
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
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8/9/2011 8:54:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/9/2011 2:53:29 AM, Mirza wrote:
Also, Mr. Banana, just because someone consents to something doesn't mean it has anything to do with what I freaking said, understand? I said it comes with consequences. Nowhere did I mention "rights." Sure, let her do it. If her parents can't protect her, neither can the government. I'm saying what the society suffers from, i.e., something like this. You speak of consent.

Get away from me please.

This actually made me lol.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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8/9/2011 11:08:03 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/9/2011 6:34:51 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/9/2011 1:14:01 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Premise: She consents.

Conclusion: What abuse?

you're a very peculiar one aren't you? A 10 year old doesn't quite know enough about the world to truly consent to anything.

Don't say that!

you're gonna make it so Ragnar thinks that, Barring any Uppity relatives, that the little non-rational creature might as well be eaten for sustenance.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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8/9/2011 11:37:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/9/2011 5:54:39 AM, Kinesis wrote:
At 8/9/2011 1:14:01 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Premise: She consents.

Conclusion: What abuse?

A. Beating your wife is still abuse, even if she thinks she deserves it and consents.
No it ain't. Only if she doesn't consent (thinking she "deserves it" or consenting for some other reason is irrelevant.)

B. She's ten years old and very likely doesn't understand what she's consenting too.
She's ten years old, not two. She is capable of understanding the English language. Sitting in sexualized poses while the cameraman drools at you is remarkably simpler to understand.

you're a very peculiar one aren't you? A 10 year old doesn't quite know enough about the world to truly consent to anything.
If you believe that and believe that doing things with someone who doesn't understand them is "abuse", every possible form of interaction whatsoever with a 10 year old child and younger is "abuse." The implications of this conclusion are obvious.

Don't say that!
you're gonna make it so Ragnar thinks that, Barring any Uppity relatives, that the little non-rational creature might as well be eaten for sustenance.
See, Matt knows how it works. :)

The rest of your responses all have the same content as what I responded to, so have fun.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
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8/9/2011 11:40:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
oh, and societies don't suffer.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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8/9/2011 12:27:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Of course a ten year old is not capable of informed consent. That's reflected in every aspect of law. Children will try please their parents and other adults. There are many cases of false testimony by children who are coached by prosecutors. After parents, peer pressure is the driving force. Truly independent thinking doesn't happen until much later in life, maybe around 20 in most cases if all goes well. Some earlier, many never.

The harm to the child is a loss of childhood, which is normal development through doing childish things, like learning how to relate to people honestly. The whole child-sexiness thing teaches that the way to deal with the world is through faking an image to manipulate people. The harm to society is that peer pressure spreads the malicious premise that fakery is all-important.

Parents are sexualizing their children to fulfill their own need for attention. That's child abuse.

I don't make too much of the specific case of the ten year old posed like an adult model. That's mainly a novelty. There as another spate of that around 1980, and it passed quickly. There is a broader problem of trying to make children grow up too fast that should be the real concern.
Indophile
Posts: 1,414
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8/9/2011 1:39:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/9/2011 12:27:38 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
Of course a ten year old is not capable of informed consent. That's reflected in every aspect of law. Children will try please their parents and other adults. There are many cases of false testimony by children who are coached by prosecutors. After parents, peer pressure is the driving force. Truly independent thinking doesn't happen until much later in life, maybe around 20 in most cases if all goes well. Some earlier, many never.

The harm to the child is a loss of childhood, which is normal development through doing childish things, like learning how to relate to people honestly. The whole child-sexiness thing teaches that the way to deal with the world is through faking an image to manipulate people. The harm to society is that peer pressure spreads the malicious premise that fakery is all-important.

Parents are sexualizing their children to fulfill their own need for attention. That's child abuse.

I don't make too much of the specific case of the ten year old posed like an adult model. That's mainly a novelty. There as another spate of that around 1980, and it passed quickly. There is a broader problem of trying to make children grow up too fast that should be the real concern.

Concerning loss of childhood, is childhood also lost by going to school? If preserving childhood is something to aspire towards, what is the best way? Shutting them up in classrooms for certain periods of the day, then expecting them to come home and be shut up in rooms finishing homework, etc. doesn't sound to me like preserving childhood.

It's actually impractical and too costly to actually let children have childhoods in this day and age. They have to be honed, sharpened, trained for almost 20 years so that they can make their own way in society.
You will say that I don't really know you
And it will be true.
Indophile
Posts: 1,414
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8/9/2011 1:40:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/9/2011 11:40:41 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
oh, and societies don't suffer.

They do, and finally they end up going out of existence :) It all depends on what you term as societies.
You will say that I don't really know you
And it will be true.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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8/9/2011 1:55:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/9/2011 11:40:41 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
oh, and societies don't suffer.
Yes, they don't have feelings (you might not either, but it's something normal people tend to have). But when a society suffers, it means that it has issues that it has problems dealing with, more problems occur with unpredictable consequences, etc. So yes a society can and does suffer.

Also, let's say that this girl "consents" (again you don't know what your spitting about), that doesn't mean she isn't getting abused in a certain way. If I drug you and make you consent to harmful stuff, that doesn't mean you aren't getting abused. Similarly, a 10 year old can easily be mentally forced to do things she would not do under normal/healthy circumstances. Fashion chains offering her money, fame, etc. to get her to do this harmful stuff is abusive.
Rockylightning
Posts: 2,862
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8/9/2011 1:59:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/9/2011 1:39:11 PM, Indophile wrote:
At 8/9/2011 12:27:38 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
Of course a ten year old is not capable of informed consent. That's reflected in every aspect of law. Children will try please their parents and other adults. There are many cases of false testimony by children who are coached by prosecutors. After parents, peer pressure is the driving force. Truly independent thinking doesn't happen until much later in life, maybe around 20 in most cases if all goes well. Some earlier, many never.

The harm to the child is a loss of childhood, which is normal development through doing childish things, like learning how to relate to people honestly. The whole child-sexiness thing teaches that the way to deal with the world is through faking an image to manipulate people. The harm to society is that peer pressure spreads the malicious premise that fakery is all-important.

Parents are sexualizing their children to fulfill their own need for attention. That's child abuse.

I don't make too much of the specific case of the ten year old posed like an adult model. That's mainly a novelty. There as another spate of that around 1980, and it passed quickly. There is a broader problem of trying to make children grow up too fast that should be the real concern.

Concerning loss of childhood, is childhood also lost by going to school? If preserving childhood is something to aspire towards, what is the best way? Shutting them up in classrooms for certain periods of the day, then expecting them to come home and be shut up in rooms finishing homework, etc. doesn't sound to me like preserving childhood.

It's actually impractical and too costly to actually let children have childhoods in this day and age. They have to be honed, sharpened, trained for almost 20 years so that they can make their own way in society.

Or incorporate childhood into learning. Children naturally want to learn and discover, they don't like to be dictated the facts in stuffy rooms. Bringing in a style of teaching centered around learning for yourself would benefit the children attitude wise, and childhood wise.
000ike
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8/9/2011 2:05:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Ragnar, why do you think societies don't suffer and countries don't need? I'm sure you know that's completely false,...right?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Cerebral_Narcissist
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8/9/2011 2:07:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/9/2011 2:05:27 PM, 000ike wrote:
Ragnar, why do you think societies don't suffer and countries don't need? I'm sure you know that's completely false,...right?

He does not recognise such things, he believes in a world of individuals and contracts.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Lasagna
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8/9/2011 2:17:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I don't like the consent standard; if we believe her consent is invalid only because of her age, then we are implying that her consent has been manipulated, and that's the wrong that's being committed. Why should manipulated consent be a factor only for children? We are pressured into giving our consent for lots of things, and that's never a problem.
Rob
Ragnar_Rahl
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8/9/2011 2:43:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/9/2011 12:27:38 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
Of course a ten year old is not capable of informed consent. That's reflected in every aspect of law.
Appeal to law.

Truly independent thinking doesn't happen until much later in life, maybe around 20 in most cases if all goes well.
Just because you don't remember independent thinking doesn't mean it isn't there.

The harm to the child is a loss of childhood, which is normal development through doing childish things, like learning how to relate to people honestly.
That's not even coherent.

They do, and finally they end up going out of existence
That's not an argument.

Yes, they don't have feelings (you might not either, but it's something normal people tend to have). But when a society suffers, it means that it has issues that it has problems dealing with, more problems occur with unpredictable consequences, etc. So yes a society can and does suffer.
It doesn't have problems either, except FOR certian individuals. Problems don't exist outside the context of individual valuation.

Also, let's say that this girl "consents" (again you don't know what your spitting about), that doesn't mean she isn't getting abused in a certain way. If I drug you and make you consent to harmful stuff, that doesn't mean you aren't getting abused.
Did I consent to being drugged?

Similarly, a 10 year old can easily be mentally forced
By a psychic?
Force and mind are opposites.

Ragnar, why do you think societies don't suffer and countries don't need? I'm sure you know that's completely false,...right?
Argument from intimidation. Also, shifting burden of proof.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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8/9/2011 3:24:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/9/2011 1:39:11 PM, Indophile wrote:
Concerning loss of childhood, is childhood also lost by going to school? If preserving childhood is something to aspire towards, what is the best way? Shutting them up in classrooms for certain periods of the day, then expecting them to come home and be shut up in rooms finishing homework, etc. doesn't sound to me like preserving childhood.

Childhood is about learning the basics of how the world works. That's academic learning and peer relationships. Learning responsibility, like getting homework done, is important. It is not about prancing around to fulfill vicarious adult desires for attention. School fits the patten quite well, although I do think it can be overdone.

"Preserving childhood" about a reasonable progression of learning activities, not about staying a child forever.

It's actually impractical and too costly to actually let children have childhoods in this day and age. They have to be honed, sharpened, trained for almost 20 years so that they can make their own way in society.

I don't get your point. It's reasonable to have a learning progression through adolescence to having full adult responsibilities. Ages 5-10 is not the period for teaching the use fraudulent appearance to get what you want.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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8/9/2011 3:33:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
They can learn schoolwork, social interaction and using their looks ( a form of social interaction) in any particular order, hence, it is impossible to "lose childhood" as you have defined it.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.