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Green Revolution via twitter?

JBlake
Posts: 4,634
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6/16/2009 12:23:54 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
For an interesting form of coverage of the rioting and protests in Iran is available via twitter:

http://industry.bnet.com...

Some info on the current state of the information:
http://emsenn.com...

#iranelection
http://search.twitter.com...

Very interesting...
MistahKurtz
Posts: 400
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6/17/2009 12:10:40 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I've been following this intently for the past few days. Rather than give a speech and whatnot, I'm just going to link to some of the vital links in this revolution;

Twitter ( http://twitter.com... ) ( http://twitter.com... )
Huffington Post coverage ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com... )
Iran's Fishy Numbers ( http://www.fivethirtyeight.com... )
Youtube ( http://www.youtube.com... )
( http://www.youtube.com... )
( http://www.youtube.com... )
Christiane's Amanpour's Facebook ( http://www.facebook.com... )
Flickr ( http://www.flickr.com... ) ( http://www.flickr.com... )
Anon Forum - Includes ways to set up proxies to help Iranians continue to contact the outside world ( http://iran.whyweprotest.net... )
MistahKurtz
Posts: 400
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6/17/2009 12:53:25 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/17/2009 12:31:03 PM, JBlake wrote:
Yes, I've been following intently as well. I'm surprised that more folks around here don't have an opinion on the matter.

I would argue that it is largely because of the traditional media's lack of coverage and the mundane quality of the reporting when it does come in. CNN has done an O-K job of consulting Twitter, Flickr, Youtube, etc. but it's not enough. They're too cautious to come out and say "This government is lying to its people." The facts exist that the government is making statements that just aren't true (ie those who died in the protests attacked military outposts.) It's because the small circle of journalist that the big news companies are used to trusting are locked in their hotel rooms. They do not trust the people of Iran to poke holes in these government fallacies (such as The Huffington Post is doing.)
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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6/17/2009 1:00:35 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Kurtz is right when he says that, though I can agree slightly with the cautious approach of CNN and other major news corporations. The people are most likely right, because they are the eye witnesses and they are the ones leading this charge - but lets remember that they're still only unverifiable people, and a lot of spin and exaggeration will occur when they're twittering away their thoughts on these protests. News companies can't jump right into a story when you have unverifiable sources - even when you see CNN or CBC or anyone reporting on the tweets coming from Iran, you'll see some sort of disclaimer saying "we're not responsible for what they say." They need to err on the side if caution, lest they be caught filing away information that turns out to be false later on.
MistahKurtz
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6/17/2009 1:07:11 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/17/2009 1:00:35 PM, Volkov wrote:
Kurtz is right when he says that, though I can agree slightly with the cautious approach of CNN and other major news corporations. The people are most likely right, because they are the eye witnesses and they are the ones leading this charge - but lets remember that they're still only unverifiable people, and a lot of spin and exaggeration will occur when they're twittering away their thoughts on these protests. News companies can't jump right into a story when you have unverifiable sources - even when you see CNN or CBC or anyone reporting on the tweets coming from Iran, you'll see some sort of disclaimer saying "we're not responsible for what they say." They need to err on the side if caution, lest they be caught filing away information that turns out to be false later on.

Well you're right, of course, but that's more or less being delt with. What some foreign journalists have being doing (as well as HuffPost) is talking to these protesters, checking their credibility and sending them out armed with cell phones to take pictures, send updates, etc. It's essentially proxy journalism via the story itself. Absolutely fascinating.

Check this out;
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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6/17/2009 1:21:20 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/17/2009 1:07:11 PM, MistahKurtz wrote:
Well you're right, of course, but that's more or less being delt with. What some foreign journalists have being doing (as well as HuffPost) is talking to these protesters, checking their credibility and sending them out armed with cell phones to take pictures, send updates, etc. It's essentially proxy journalism via the story itself. Absolutely fascinating.

Check this out;
http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

That is very fascinating. I've been following Pitney's website for a couple of days now, and its amazing that all this information has been able to get out. I love it when journalism learns how to evolve even under these harshest of circumstances.
Volkov
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6/26/2009 8:17:14 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
This may not be the place to do it, but this is the only thread I could find concerning the Iranian protests.

http://www.cbc.ca...

Ayatollah Ahmed Khatami, a senior cleric in the Iranian government, has ordered that protesters and protest leaders be dealt "without mercy." I don't think this will happen, as Ayatollah Khamenei is a little smarter than that. But in the event it does, what does anyone believe the international reaction will be?
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
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6/26/2009 9:22:31 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
It is sad to say, but I think the international response will be similar to the response in other similar situations. The western world will express sadness and outrage, but will do nothing.
Volkov
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6/26/2009 10:58:30 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/26/2009 9:22:31 AM, JBlake wrote:
It is sad to say, but I think the international response will be similar to the response in other similar situations. The western world will express sadness and outrage, but will do nothing.

What can you do though? Military is overstretched and would face an unbelievably tough war in a country that, while historically the people don't mind our culture, they do hate our interventionism. How do you help a country that wants our help, but not directly?
JBlake
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6/26/2009 11:19:24 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/26/2009 10:58:30 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 6/26/2009 9:22:31 AM, JBlake wrote:
It is sad to say, but I think the international response will be similar to the response in other similar situations. The western world will express sadness and outrage, but will do nothing.

What can you do though? Military is overstretched and would face an unbelievably tough war in a country that, while historically the people don't mind our culture, they do hate our interventionism. How do you help a country that wants our help, but not directly?

I would agree that we should not get involved. It's still sad... Short of refusing to recognize the government's legitimacy the only thing we can do is express sadness and outrage.

What do you think the international response will be/should be?
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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6/26/2009 12:08:35 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/26/2009 11:19:24 AM, JBlake wrote:
What do you think the international response will be/should be?

Obama: The situation is unacceptable, and the United States won't stand by.

Brown: The situation is unacceptable, and the United Kingdom won't stand by.

Harper: The situation is unacceptable, and Canada won't stand by.

Sarkozy: Cette situation est inacceptable et la France prendra des mesures.

In seriousness, the world powers won't do anything major. Round of sanctions, diplomacy cut off, possibly some refugee applicants accepted (like Mousavi), etc. There is too fine of a line to tread.
Ragnar_Rahl
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6/26/2009 12:27:37 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Even our indirect help won't really help, short of invasion. If Iran sniffs out too much Western support for the "revolution,", they'll have more excuse to suppress it harshly. Which means they lose unless we overpower them.

It's all or nothing in cases like this. If you aren't prepared to fight, just stay the f*** out of the way. The latter can often have decent results.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Volkov
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6/26/2009 12:33:38 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/26/2009 12:27:37 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
It's all or nothing in cases like this. If you aren't prepared to fight, just stay the f*** out of the way. The latter can often have decent results.

Agreed. I think its best to leave the Iran to the Iranians in this case. As much as I'd like my country and the Western world to help, it would do more harm than good, both to us and the Iranian citizens.
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
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6/26/2009 12:42:33 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/26/2009 12:27:37 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Even our indirect help won't really help, short of invasion. If Iran sniffs out too much Western support for the "revolution,", they'll have more excuse to suppress it harshly. Which means they lose unless we overpower them.

It's all or nothing in cases like this. If you aren't prepared to fight, just stay the f*** out of the way. The latter can often have decent results.

It's not as though the Iranian government is necessarily waiting to sniff out western support to blame/condemn the west for the protests. They've been claiming that the protest is western led and influenced, some are even claiming that the CIA is responsible for the death of Neda (if you haven't heard of her by now: http://en.wikipedia.org...). Even more out there is their claim that BBC's Iran correspondent Jon Leyne hired men to kill her so he could make a documentary.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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6/26/2009 12:49:34 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/26/2009 12:42:33 PM, JBlake wrote:
At 6/26/2009 12:27:37 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Even our indirect help won't really help, short of invasion. If Iran sniffs out too much Western support for the "revolution,", they'll have more excuse to suppress it harshly. Which means they lose unless we overpower them.

It's all or nothing in cases like this. If you aren't prepared to fight, just stay the f*** out of the way. The latter can often have decent results.

It's not as though the Iranian government is necessarily waiting to sniff out western support to blame/condemn the west for the protests. They've been claiming that the protest is western led and influenced, some are even claiming that the CIA is responsible for the death of Neda (if you haven't heard of her by now: http://en.wikipedia.org...). Even more out there is their claim that BBC's Iran correspondent Jon Leyne hired men to kill her so he could make a documentary.

They're testing the waters, seeing what kinds of claims they can get various segments of locals to believe.

The point is not to provide enough ammunition to make those accusations believable for those who are the "swing" votes/guns in determining whether the protests accomplish anything. Iranians are in general cynical-- toward EVERYONE. They know their government is going to feed them lines of bull-- but that doesn't mean everything it says is false, and from where they are sitting, if we start "helping" protestors significantly, we make these particular statements much more credible.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
JBlake
Posts: 4,634
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6/26/2009 12:56:40 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that we should not get involved, or do anything that might be used by the government of Iran to discredit the opposition. I'm just pointing out that they are already doing it.
s0m31john
Posts: 1,879
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6/26/2009 1:01:19 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
They shot themselves in the foot going with Twitter. Twitter is dumb and because of my disdain for Twitter I haven't even been following any of this and really couldn't care less. Boo hoo our guy didn't win now we're stuck with a guy that hates freedom just a little bit more than our guy.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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6/26/2009 1:04:36 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/26/2009 1:01:19 PM, s0m31john wrote:
They shot themselves in the foot going with Twitter. Twitter is dumb and because of my disdain for Twitter I haven't even been following any of this and really couldn't care less. Boo hoo our guy didn't win now we're stuck with a guy that hates freedom just a little bit more than our guy.

Hey, its easy, simple and gets the message out. Dumb, and ultimately pointless, as Twitter is, it has served its purpose here.