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Was Obama born in Hawaii or Kenya?

Xer
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6/29/2009 4:02:34 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
http://www.newsmax.com...

"I know; this suspicion, this question about whether Barack Hussein Barry Soetoro Obama was actually born in the United States — as the Constitution explicitly demands — has been circulating for months, since before he won the election last November. He, or somebody in his confidence, posted a supposed copy of a Hawaiian "Certification of Live Birth," or COLB, on his presidential campaign Web site — even though a COLB, under Hawaiian rules, does not necessarily prove in-state birth. Some found the document, which does not list the hospital of birth or attending physician, to be fake."

So why doesn't Mr. President show his birth certificate? Why is he allowed to be President of the United States without showing it? Mindboggling.....
Volkov
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6/29/2009 4:06:22 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
http://216.221.102.26/blogger/image.axd?picture=2009%2F4%2F2008-06-12_obama_birth_certificate.jpg

No offense, but Americans really need to stop with this nonsense.

Who cares if he was born outside of the United States? Does it make him less American somehow?

Christ sake, the last Liberal leader here had dual citizenship - Canada and France. Did anyone make a big deal out of it? No.

So I repeat: stop the nonsense.
Xer
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6/29/2009 4:13:21 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/29/2009 4:06:22 PM, Volkov wrote:
http://216.221.102.26/blogger/image.axd?picture=2009%2F4%2F2008-06-12_obama_birth_certificate.jpg
---That is a Certificate of Live Birth. Did you not read my quoted paragraph???

No offense, but Americans really need to stop with this nonsense.
---No.

Who cares if he was born outside of the United States? Does it make him less American somehow?
---I care. Because the Constitution says so.

Christ sake, the last Liberal leader here had dual citizenship - Canada and France. Did anyone make a big deal out of it? No.
---Was it against the Constitution? No.

So I repeat: stop the nonsense.
---No.
Volkov
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6/29/2009 4:24:10 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/29/2009 4:13:21 PM, Nags wrote:
---That is a Certificate of Live Birth. Did you not read my quoted paragraph???

You know, people lose their Birth Certificate all the time. Does it honestly matter? He has some proof there showing that he was born in Hawaii, and that should be enough. It has been proven to be real, so calm down.

It isn't as if you'll find any less of a Democratic Congress or Senate or President in power if he's found to be fake. Does it honestly matter.

---I care. Because the Constitution says so.

Maybe you should change the Constitution. Especially with the rising number of immigrants in your country. Maybe the smart thing to do is too tough for you right now, but eventually you'll find that it needs to be done.
Xer
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6/29/2009 4:37:35 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Overwhelming evidence the COLB is fake:
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...

It isn't as if you'll find any less of a Democratic Congress or Senate or President in power if he's found to be fake. Does it honestly matter.
---Yes, it does matter. Obama is drastically changing the country, in ways that Joe Biden would not (a true American).

---I care. Because the Constitution says so.

Maybe you should change the Constitution. Especially with the rising number of immigrants in your country. Maybe the smart thing to do is too tough for you right now, but eventually you'll find that it needs to be done.
---That is called a constitutional amendment. This is not a living constitution. The proper process needs to be used.
---It would never pass anyway.
---The immigrants almost never positively contribute to the country anyway.
Volkov
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6/29/2009 4:45:28 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/29/2009 4:37:35 PM, Nags wrote:
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...

a) I'll believe a website known as "Atlas Shrugs 2000" when I turn into R_R.
b) http://www.politifact.com...

---Yes, it does matter. Obama is drastically changing the country, in ways that Joe Biden would not (a true American).

How can you say? Do you know Joe Biden's deepest desires for the country? How can you say what is and isn't a "true American" either?

You're worse than my Prime Minister.

---That is called a constitutional amendment. This is not a living constitution. The proper process needs to be used.
---It would never pass anyway.
---The immigrants almost never positively contribute to the country anyway.

I'm not going to even bother with the last statement. But, it should be a living constitution, and it may or may not pass. Hard to say for either side.
Xer
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6/29/2009 4:53:05 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Did you even read the evidence? The empirical evidence... not hearsay...
__________

Regardless if they had the same views, I want an American, not a foreigner as my President.

By "true American" I mean someone who is actually born in the U.S.A.
__________

The Constitution of Canda is living, the U.S. Constitution is not.

There is no way it would pass. I am absolutely sure of that.
I-am-a-panda
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6/29/2009 5:15:29 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Lol at "Americans" who claim they want "Americans". There is no proof anyone in America actually started in America. Even the Native Americans supposedly came from Russia. America is a nation of immigrants. Deal with it.

Of course, nothing would be better than a Native American president:
Constitutional Amendment One, You lot, get out!

By the way, would you rather have a foolhardy "American" or a very smart foreigner.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Volkov
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6/29/2009 5:16:13 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/29/2009 4:53:05 PM, Nags wrote:
Did you even read the evidence? The empirical evidence... not hearsay...
__________

I skimmed through it and looked at the notes for the pictures, etc. I don't have that much time to read through all of it, so I got right to the point. Hopefully, I didn't miss anything important.

That being said, I don't find it convincing proof. This may be because my own photoshop skills aren't as acute as "techdude," or because I find that even in specificity, it is vague at best, makes no sense at worst.

I prefer to believe that the Hawaii Department of Health can verify its own documents.

Regardless if they had the same views, I want an American, not a foreigner as my President.

By "true American" I mean someone who is actually born in the U.S.A.

But isn't that silly? How is someone born in say, Canada, any less American than the next person, if only because the next person was born in the States?

I would personally say someone is a "true American" based on their belief of whether or not the United States can improve itself and whether or not the citizens are capable of pushing for that improvement.

There is no way it would pass. I am absolutely sure of that.

I'm not. Maybe if it was in Congress/Senate, but at a public vote it would sway. Just remember - there is a lot of immigrants and children of immigrants in your country.
Volkov
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6/29/2009 5:20:24 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/29/2009 5:15:29 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Of course, nothing would be better than a Native American president:
Constitutional Amendment One, You lot, get out!

Sigged.
Lifeisgood
Posts: 295
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6/29/2009 5:27:27 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/29/2009 4:24:10 PM, Volkov wrote:
It isn't as if you'll find any less of a Democratic Congress or Senate or President in power if he's found to be fake. Does it honestly matter.

Yes. It matters very much.

Maybe you should change the Constitution. Especially with the rising number of immigrants in your country. Maybe the smart thing to do is too tough for you right now, but eventually you'll find that it needs to be done.

No. No. And NO. If that requirement were taken out, there would big problems.

Let's say that the U.S. is at war with a foreign country. That country sends a spy over at the beginning of the war. He becomes a naturalized citizen, works his way up, and eventually becomes president. He then sabotages the U.S. from the inside out.

This is not the only instance where this requirement would be important. With any foreign-born president, it is likely they will not have the best interests of the U.S. in mind.

Your suggestion is not the 'smart thing' by a long shot, and it does not need to be done. The things in our Constitution where chosen with great care by wise men. To disregard them and their wisdom would be death to the United States.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln
I-am-a-panda
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6/29/2009 5:30:20 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/29/2009 5:27:27 PM, Lifeisgood wrote:

No. No. And NO. If that requirement were taken out, there would big problems.

Let's say that the U.S. is at war with a foreign country. That country sends a spy over at the beginning of the war. He becomes a naturalized citizen, works his way up, and eventually becomes president. He then sabotages the U.S. from the inside out.

This is not the only instance where this requirement would be important. With any foreign-born president, it is likely they will not have the best interests of the U.S. in mind.

Your suggestion is not the 'smart thing' by a long shot, and it does not need to be done. The things in our Constitution where chosen with great care by wise men. To disregard them and their wisdom would be death to the United States.

I'm not well read up on the crazy American system of governance, but I know that the President acts like an elected limited monarch, who can write any law as long as congress does not block it and does not go outside the constitution. So, if he were to try do anything negative or found (quickly) to be a spy, congress would impeach him.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Volkov
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6/29/2009 5:36:28 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/29/2009 5:27:27 PM, Lifeisgood wrote:
No. No. And NO. If that requirement were taken out, there would big problems.

Let's say that the U.S. is at war with a foreign country. That country sends a spy over at the beginning of the war. He becomes a naturalized citizen, works his way up, and eventually becomes president. He then sabotages the U.S. from the inside out.

That makes about as much sense as the people who berate Michael Ignatieff:

Michael Ignatieff is the son of a Russian immigrant.
He is also fluent in Russian.
His family includes the last Russian Education Minister under Tsar Nicholas II.
Therefore, Michael Ignatieff is a Tsarist Russian spy.

Seriously, do you think that will happen, especially with the huge background checks that go through each and every candidate? As well, Panda is right. The power of the United States rests with Congress and the Senate - not the office of the President. The President ideally only signs documents into laws, and is responsible to the elected Congress. If he fails to uphold his duties or is found unfit for various reasons, such as espionage, he will be impeached.

The system works!?
Lifeisgood
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6/29/2009 5:39:08 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/29/2009 5:30:20 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote::
I'm not well read up on the crazy American system of governance, but I know that the President acts like an elected limited monarch, who can write any law as long as congress does not block it and does not go outside the constitution.

Who told you that? That's completely untrue.

So, if he were to try do anything negative or found (quickly) to be a spy, congress would impeach him.

Possibly. But he could be subtle, and it is possible no one would know the truth until his term was over. Also, even if he was not very subtle after he was elected, he could divide the general opinion of the public. This in itself would be a deadly sabotage.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln
Lifeisgood
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6/29/2009 5:46:15 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/29/2009 5:36:28 PM, Volkov wrote:
That makes about as much sense as the people who berate Michael Ignatieff:

I was not berating anyone, I was giving a possible example of what might happen.

Seriously, do you think that will happen, especially with the huge background checks that go through each and every candidate?

Anything can happen. I'm not saying it will, just that it is possible.

The power of the United States rests with Congress and the Senate - not the office of the President. The President ideally only signs documents into laws, and is responsible to the elected Congress. If he fails to uphold his duties or is found unfit for various reasons, such as espionage, he will be impeached.

I am aware of all this. But the president is still the most powerful single political figure in the nation. If someone who does not have America's best interests in mind becomes president, he could cause a lot of damage, in any form.

The system works!?

Not always.
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." - Abraham Lincoln
I-am-a-panda
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6/29/2009 5:53:58 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/29/2009 5:39:08 PM, Lifeisgood wrote:
At 6/29/2009 5:30:20 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote::
I'm not well read up on the crazy American system of governance, but I know that the President acts like an elected limited monarch, who can write any law as long as congress does not block it and does not go outside the constitution.

Who told you that? That's completely untrue.

Well then, enlighten me.


So, if he were to try do anything negative or found (quickly) to be a spy, congress would impeach him.

Possibly. But he could be subtle, and it is possible no one would know the truth until his term was over. Also, even if he was not very subtle after he was elected, he could divide the general opinion of the public. This in itself would be a deadly sabotage.

He could, but people tend to be united in war time against the common enemy, given the enemy is the aggressor.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Ragnar_Rahl
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6/29/2009 5:55:05 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/29/2009 4:45:28 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 6/29/2009 4:37:35 PM, Nags wrote:
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com...

a) I'll believe a website known as "Atlas Shrugs 2000" when I turn into R_R.

No you won't. Any website you'd bother frequenting after encountering it months ago if you were R_R would abandon this birth certificate stuff when it was clear it wasn't going anywhere, since it's a political ploy to deal with someone one dislikes for other reasons and not an action from principle if an Objectivist does it (Who really gives a damn where the governing party comes from, when you can worry about how they govern?). It would probably also not be likely to wind up "Grand Conservative Blogress Diva." It would at the very least have an about page to bring it's beliefs out into the open so it could be made clear whether this is someone who suits the name or is hiding behind it.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
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6/29/2009 5:56:34 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/29/2009 5:15:29 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Of course, nothing would be better than a Native American president:
Constitutional Amendment One, You lot, get out!

Why would the Native American speak British English?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
I-am-a-panda
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6/29/2009 6:15:04 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/29/2009 5:56:34 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/29/2009 5:15:29 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Of course, nothing would be better than a Native American president:
Constitutional Amendment One, You lot, get out!

Why would the Native American speak British English?

Why the hell not?
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Ragnar_Rahl
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6/29/2009 6:33:03 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
They don't live in Britain?
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
I-am-a-panda
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6/30/2009 10:16:38 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/29/2009 6:47:10 PM, wjmelements wrote:
And they'd never be exposed to it...

English-Indian student exchange. An English child learns the ways of hunting and foraging, and a Native American goes to Oxford. Sounds fair to me.

Besides, some Native Americans sided with the British army in the revolution, henceforth real contact, not my hypothetical scenario.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Maikuru
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6/30/2009 10:43:02 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/29/2009 4:37:35 PM, Nags wrote:
---The immigrants almost never positively contribute to the country anyway.

Sheesh, what have I been missing?
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
- lamerde

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Ragnar_Rahl
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6/30/2009 11:02:13 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/30/2009 10:16:38 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 6/29/2009 6:47:10 PM, wjmelements wrote:
And they'd never be exposed to it...

English-Indian student exchange. An English child learns the ways of hunting and foraging, and a Native American goes to Oxford. Sounds fair to me.
Does this happen often?


Besides, some Native Americans sided with the British army in the revolution, henceforth real contact, not my hypothetical scenario.
18th century=/= first Native American president,we are already in the 21st century without one.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
I-am-a-panda
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6/30/2009 11:09:38 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/30/2009 11:02:13 AM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 6/30/2009 10:16:38 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 6/29/2009 6:47:10 PM, wjmelements wrote:
And they'd never be exposed to it...

English-Indian student exchange. An English child learns the ways of hunting and foraging, and a Native American goes to Oxford. Sounds fair to me.
Does this happen often?

No, but humour does. Take above as an example.



Besides, some Native Americans sided with the British army in the revolution, henceforth real contact, not my hypothetical scenario.
18th century=/= first Native American president,we are already in the 21st century without one.

People retain accents from people they have learned the language from, with a slight twang from the first language. Should a Native American descend from a native who fought for the British and learned English through them, they would use British dialect.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Xer
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6/30/2009 11:15:13 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/30/2009 10:17:08 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Oh, and to all Republicans, McCain was born in Panama.

On a U.S. military base...
I-am-a-panda
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6/30/2009 11:36:05 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/30/2009 11:15:13 AM, Nags wrote:
At 6/30/2009 10:17:08 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Oh, and to all Republicans, McCain was born in Panama.

On a U.S. military base...

Still Panama. He's a Panamian.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Ragnar_Rahl
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6/30/2009 12:21:32 PM
Posted: 7 years ago



Besides, some Native Americans sided with the British army in the revolution, henceforth real contact, not my hypothetical scenario.
18th century=/= first Native American president,we are already in the 21st century without one.

People retain accents from people they have learned the language from, with a slight twang from the first language. Should a Native American descend from a native who fought for the British and learned English through them, they would use British dialect.

American colonists used to be British, dude. You can't be serious.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Ragnar_Rahl
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6/30/2009 12:22:35 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 6/30/2009 11:36:05 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 6/30/2009 11:15:13 AM, Nags wrote:
At 6/30/2009 10:17:08 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Oh, and to all Republicans, McCain was born in Panama.

On a U.S. military base...

Still Panama. He's a Panamian.

Legally, that's US soil.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.