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Deaf preschooler asked to change name sign

JaxsonRaine
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8/28/2012 9:55:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://www.1011now.com...

I fully encourage every person who hears this story to send an email to the spokesperson jsheard @ gips.org... try to keep it more professional than what I'm going to send them.

The boy's name is hunter, and he signs his name by making gun-shapes out of both hands, with his index and middle finger crossed. The school says this violates their no-weapons policy.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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8/28/2012 8:22:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I support the school.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
bossyburrito
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8/28/2012 8:45:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 8:35:47 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/28/2012 8:22:13 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
I support the school.

Are you serious?

Yes.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
bossyburrito
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8/28/2012 8:46:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Actually, is it a public school? If so, and the sign is standard and legally recognized, then no.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
Deathbeforedishonour
Posts: 1,058
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8/28/2012 8:50:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 8:45:44 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/28/2012 8:35:47 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/28/2012 8:22:13 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
I support the school.

Are you serious?

Yes.

What is your reasons for supporting this act of blatant stupidity?
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ~ John 1:1

Matthew 10:22- "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
bossyburrito
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8/28/2012 8:53:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 8:50:33 PM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 8/28/2012 8:45:44 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/28/2012 8:35:47 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/28/2012 8:22:13 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
I support the school.

Are you serious?

Yes.

What is your reasons for supporting this act of blatant stupidity?

If it's a private school, it should stand by it's rules. The moment you let one exception through, the rule loses value.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/28/2012 8:54:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 8:50:33 PM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 8/28/2012 8:45:44 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/28/2012 8:35:47 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/28/2012 8:22:13 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
I support the school.

Are you serious?

Yes.

What is your reasons for supporting this act of blatant stupidity?

Does it not violate their policy? Or do you just have a problem with the policy?
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/28/2012 10:32:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 8:46:56 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Actually, is it a public school? If so, and the sign is standard and legally recognized, then no.

Yes, it's a public school, afaik anyway.

And yes, it's a standard sign in S.E.E.

The point is, it's his name. The word 'hunter' is a representation exactly the same as a sign 'hunter' is a representation. They are both language.

Asking a 3-year old to change his name is beyond ridiculous. Public or private.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
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8/28/2012 10:34:48 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 8:53:45 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/28/2012 8:50:33 PM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 8/28/2012 8:45:44 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/28/2012 8:35:47 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/28/2012 8:22:13 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
I support the school.

Are you serious?

Yes.

What is your reasons for supporting this act of blatant stupidity?

If it's a private school, it should stand by it's rules. The moment you let one exception through, the rule loses value.

Do you really think their rule applies to a name?

Even if it were a private school, that would be discriminatory against deaf people. The word 'hunter' is a linguistic representation of an idea. The sign 'hunter' is no different, it's just a different language.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
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8/28/2012 10:36:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 8:54:38 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/28/2012 8:50:33 PM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 8/28/2012 8:45:44 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 8/28/2012 8:35:47 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/28/2012 8:22:13 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
I support the school.

Are you serious?

Yes.

What is your reasons for supporting this act of blatant stupidity?

Does it not violate their policy? Or do you just have a problem with the policy?

They are saying the sign for the word 'hunter' is banned from their school. His name.

You really think that is a valid/legal policy?

They would have to ban hearing students with the name hunter as well if they wanted to be fair.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
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8/28/2012 10:37:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm sorry, but supporting the school's position is just as bad as the school making it in the first place.

I knew a precious little girl about 3 by the name of Dani. I told her 'You're a very pretty girl.', and she said 'I not girl, I Dani'.

You don't tell a child that they have to change their name... that should be common sense.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/28/2012 10:38:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 10:32:40 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/28/2012 8:46:56 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Actually, is it a public school? If so, and the sign is standard and legally recognized, then no.

Yes, it's a public school, afaik anyway.

And yes, it's a standard sign in S.E.E.

The point is, it's his name. The word 'hunter' is a representation exactly the same as a sign 'hunter' is a representation. They are both language.

Asking a 3-year old to change his name is beyond ridiculous. Public or private.

If a child is named "fvcktard" or "Obamanigger" or "Conservatives_are_devils" I'd support the school saying "change the name or go to another school."
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/28/2012 10:40:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 10:38:59 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/28/2012 10:32:40 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/28/2012 8:46:56 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Actually, is it a public school? If so, and the sign is standard and legally recognized, then no.

Yes, it's a public school, afaik anyway.

And yes, it's a standard sign in S.E.E.

The point is, it's his name. The word 'hunter' is a representation exactly the same as a sign 'hunter' is a representation. They are both language.

Asking a 3-year old to change his name is beyond ridiculous. Public or private.

If a child is named "fvcktard" or "Obamanigger" or "Conservatives_are_devils" I'd support the school saying "change the name or go to another school."

In the places where children would be named those names, they would be fully acceptable in schools.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/28/2012 10:42:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 10:38:59 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/28/2012 10:32:40 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/28/2012 8:46:56 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Actually, is it a public school? If so, and the sign is standard and legally recognized, then no.

Yes, it's a public school, afaik anyway.

And yes, it's a standard sign in S.E.E.

The point is, it's his name. The word 'hunter' is a representation exactly the same as a sign 'hunter' is a representation. They are both language.

Asking a 3-year old to change his name is beyond ridiculous. Public or private.

If a child is named "fvcktard" or "Obamanigger" or "Conservatives_are_devils" I'd support the school saying "change the name or go to another school."

His name is Hunter. So essentially your argument is, the word Hunter is ok, even though it means killing things. The sign for it isn't.

Signs are naturally more visually representative of the things they represent... what do you expect?

I'm sorry, but if you seriously support the school in this... that's just beyond pathetic. It's nothing like 'Obamanigger'.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/28/2012 10:46:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Emotionally, I find this completely abhorrent. Logically, I recognize that the school that this individual attends is a private school and hence a private organization. Private organizations have full authority to enact rules and laws which they see fit but might otherwise not have been accepted in public schools. They have a right to discriminate, although doing it is just moronic for economical purposes. If a private school wants to ban all muslims from attending it, then so be it. However, the social stigma associated with these types of events is so severe that no rational businessman would do them.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
JaxsonRaine
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8/28/2012 10:48:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 10:46:04 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Emotionally, I find this completely abhorrent. Logically, I recognize that the school that this individual attends is a private school and hence a private organization. Private organizations have full authority to enact rules and laws which they see fit but might otherwise not have been accepted in public schools. They have a right to discriminate, although doing it is just moronic for economical purposes. If a private school wants to ban all muslims from attending it, then so be it. However, the social stigma associated with these types of events is so severe that no rational businessman would do them.

1 - It's a public school
2 - I don't believe being a private school allows you to discriminate against the ADA.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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8/28/2012 10:51:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 10:48:37 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/28/2012 10:46:04 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Emotionally, I find this completely abhorrent. Logically, I recognize that the school that this individual attends is a private school and hence a private organization. Private organizations have full authority to enact rules and laws which they see fit but might otherwise not have been accepted in public schools. They have a right to discriminate, although doing it is just moronic for economical purposes. If a private school wants to ban all muslims from attending it, then so be it. However, the social stigma associated with these types of events is so severe that no rational businessman would do them.

1 - It's a public school

In that case it's unethical.

2 - I don't believe being a private school allows you to discriminate against the ADA.

Being a private organization allows you to discriminate against anybody and anything. If I want, I can open up a business and deny entrance to blacks.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
JaxsonRaine
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8/28/2012 10:56:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 10:51:33 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/28/2012 10:48:37 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/28/2012 10:46:04 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Emotionally, I find this completely abhorrent. Logically, I recognize that the school that this individual attends is a private school and hence a private organization. Private organizations have full authority to enact rules and laws which they see fit but might otherwise not have been accepted in public schools. They have a right to discriminate, although doing it is just moronic for economical purposes. If a private school wants to ban all muslims from attending it, then so be it. However, the social stigma associated with these types of events is so severe that no rational businessman would do them.

1 - It's a public school

In that case it's unethical.

2 - I don't believe being a private school allows you to discriminate against the ADA.

Being a private organization allows you to discriminate against anybody and anything. If I want, I can open up a business and deny entrance to blacks.

http://www.justice.gov...

Apparently, only private schools that are run by religions are exempt from Title III of the ADA.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
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8/28/2012 10:58:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 10:51:33 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 8/28/2012 10:48:37 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/28/2012 10:46:04 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Emotionally, I find this completely abhorrent. Logically, I recognize that the school that this individual attends is a private school and hence a private organization. Private organizations have full authority to enact rules and laws which they see fit but might otherwise not have been accepted in public schools. They have a right to discriminate, although doing it is just moronic for economical purposes. If a private school wants to ban all muslims from attending it, then so be it. However, the social stigma associated with these types of events is so severe that no rational businessman would do them.

1 - It's a public school

In that case it's unethical.

And illegal.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/28/2012 11:02:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 10:42:36 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/28/2012 10:38:59 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/28/2012 10:32:40 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/28/2012 8:46:56 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Actually, is it a public school? If so, and the sign is standard and legally recognized, then no.

Yes, it's a public school, afaik anyway.

And yes, it's a standard sign in S.E.E.

The point is, it's his name. The word 'hunter' is a representation exactly the same as a sign 'hunter' is a representation. They are both language.

Asking a 3-year old to change his name is beyond ridiculous. Public or private.

If a child is named "fvcktard" or "Obamanigger" or "Conservatives_are_devils" I'd support the school saying "change the name or go to another school."

His name is Hunter. So essentially your argument is, the word Hunter is ok, even though it means killing things. The sign for it isn't.

By their policy, it isn't.


Signs are naturally more visually representative of the things they represent... what do you expect?

I'm sorry, but if you seriously support the school in this... that's just beyond pathetic. It's nothing like 'Obamanigger'.

That is merely to show the principle. The rest is where is the arbitrary line between "okay" and "too far."

I have little problem with schools or institutes enforcing their internal policies. I also fully support trying to change policies that you disagree with, but to follow the policies until they are changed, for the most part.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/28/2012 11:04:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 11:02:10 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/28/2012 10:42:36 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/28/2012 10:38:59 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/28/2012 10:32:40 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/28/2012 8:46:56 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Actually, is it a public school? If so, and the sign is standard and legally recognized, then no.

Yes, it's a public school, afaik anyway.

And yes, it's a standard sign in S.E.E.

The point is, it's his name. The word 'hunter' is a representation exactly the same as a sign 'hunter' is a representation. They are both language.

Asking a 3-year old to change his name is beyond ridiculous. Public or private.

If a child is named "fvcktard" or "Obamanigger" or "Conservatives_are_devils" I'd support the school saying "change the name or go to another school."

His name is Hunter. So essentially your argument is, the word Hunter is ok, even though it means killing things. The sign for it isn't.

By their policy, it isn't.


Signs are naturally more visually representative of the things they represent... what do you expect?

I'm sorry, but if you seriously support the school in this... that's just beyond pathetic. It's nothing like 'Obamanigger'.

That is merely to show the principle. The rest is where is the arbitrary line between "okay" and "too far."

I have little problem with schools or institutes enforcing their internal policies. I also fully support trying to change policies that you disagree with, but to follow the policies until they are changed, for the most part.

You support following a policy when it is directly in conflict with federal law?

Under the ADA, public schools must make reasonable accomodations for those with disabilities. Allowing a student to use the official sign for his name would definitely be 'reasonable'.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/28/2012 11:11:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ore-ele, should the school also ban all ASL signs that resemble any kind of weapon?

That means they would ban all books and stories that have words like 'hunt' in them, because a teacher might sign the book to her students.

The stupid is without end.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/28/2012 11:24:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 11:04:14 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/28/2012 11:02:10 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/28/2012 10:42:36 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/28/2012 10:38:59 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/28/2012 10:32:40 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/28/2012 8:46:56 PM, bossyburrito wrote:
Actually, is it a public school? If so, and the sign is standard and legally recognized, then no.

Yes, it's a public school, afaik anyway.

And yes, it's a standard sign in S.E.E.

The point is, it's his name. The word 'hunter' is a representation exactly the same as a sign 'hunter' is a representation. They are both language.

Asking a 3-year old to change his name is beyond ridiculous. Public or private.

If a child is named "fvcktard" or "Obamanigger" or "Conservatives_are_devils" I'd support the school saying "change the name or go to another school."

His name is Hunter. So essentially your argument is, the word Hunter is ok, even though it means killing things. The sign for it isn't.

By their policy, it isn't.


Signs are naturally more visually representative of the things they represent... what do you expect?

I'm sorry, but if you seriously support the school in this... that's just beyond pathetic. It's nothing like 'Obamanigger'.

That is merely to show the principle. The rest is where is the arbitrary line between "okay" and "too far."

I have little problem with schools or institutes enforcing their internal policies. I also fully support trying to change policies that you disagree with, but to follow the policies until they are changed, for the most part.

You support following a policy when it is directly in conflict with federal law?

Under the ADA, public schools must make reasonable accomodations for those with disabilities. Allowing a student to use the official sign for his name would definitely be 'reasonable'.

Or they could simply accommodate for the standard ASL, rather than SEE variation. That is also reasonable, since that is more common.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
JaxsonRaine
Posts: 3,606
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8/28/2012 11:28:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 11:24:57 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Or they could simply accommodate for the standard ASL, rather than SEE variation. That is also reasonable, since that is more common.

Yeah, that would fix it.

http://www.aslsearch.com...

Oops, looks like it's the same thing.

SEE is more about grammar and sentence structure than different signs.

So, should they ban his name, and ban any use of the word 'hunt' or any variations by the deaf students' teachers?
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
Ore_Ele
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8/28/2012 11:37:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 11:28:28 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/28/2012 11:24:57 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Or they could simply accommodate for the standard ASL, rather than SEE variation. That is also reasonable, since that is more common.

Yeah, that would fix it.

http://www.aslsearch.com...

Oops, looks like it's the same thing.

That's not really the same thing as in the original video in your link. Unless his name is "hunting hunting hunting hunting hunting hunting"


SEE is more about grammar and sentence structure than different signs.

So, should they ban his name, and ban any use of the word 'hunt' or any variations by the deaf students' teachers?

Either that or change their policy. Of course, if they want to have that policy, then so be it. The only reason I'd see for them to be forced to change their policy would be if there were no other schools in the near by area within reason (to which I don't know the answer to).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
JaxsonRaine
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8/28/2012 11:48:57 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 8/28/2012 11:37:17 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/28/2012 11:28:28 PM, JaxsonRaine wrote:
At 8/28/2012 11:24:57 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
Or they could simply accommodate for the standard ASL, rather than SEE variation. That is also reasonable, since that is more common.

Yeah, that would fix it.

http://www.aslsearch.com...

Oops, looks like it's the same thing.

That's not really the same thing as in the original video in your link. Unless his name is "hunting hunting hunting hunting hunting hunting"

Wow... you're amazing, you know that?

They are teaching him control, notice how he was trying to get the sign right. The way he signs his name is like the peace sign. For deaf kids, it's harder to learn to properly sign words than it is for hearing kids to say words. The way he is signing is kind of like saying 'untu', it's muddy like a kid who hasn't learned how to say a word properly.

I've worked with deaf children before, it's not easy. With a hearing child, they can be doing something else and hear the word you are telling them. They can learn the words without really paying attention.

Deaf kids have to focus on the hand movement, the nuances of the structure of the sign. Kids aren't good at focusing on those kinds of details.

All you are doing is showing yourself to be an ignorant as... donkey about this issue.


SEE is more about grammar and sentence structure than different signs.

So, should they ban his name, and ban any use of the word 'hunt' or any variations by the deaf students' teachers?

Either that or change their policy. Of course, if they want to have that policy, then so be it. The only reason I'd see for them to be forced to change their policy would be if there were no other schools in the near by area within reason (to which I don't know the answer to).

You think it's ok for them to not comply with the ADA then? Ugh, I can't stand people like you.
twocupcakes: 15 = 13