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Least transparent president in history

innomen
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9/28/2012 11:02:10 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I guess I'm a little behind the curve here, as this news was made public in August, but it's come to light that the White House has been using private emails and private servers for official White House communication with the sole purpose of cover ups. Allegations have been made that this method of covert communication has been used in actions such as fast and furious, as well as active political organizing on the public dime.

And if you think that all the secrecy is fairly benign, think again: " Killing American citizens with drones is the most extreme action that the Obama Administration takes in secret. President Obama insists that he is empowered to secretly kill anyone whose name appears on a secret list he keeps. The guilt of the people on the list is presumed based on secret evidence assembled by a secret group of government officials who meet in secret. The strikes are subsequently carried out by secret agents in the Central Intelligence Agency. As if that Orwellian spectacle, bereft of checks and balances, weren't invitation enough to abuses, the government won't even reveal the legal reasoning that supposedly justifies its suspension of due process, even for American citizens. That too is deemed a secret." and if you think this is from one of Geo's whacky sites, it's from the Atlantic http://www.theatlantic.com... far from a right wing publication.

And if you think speaking truth to power is a patriotic value of the Democrats, think again: "President Obama has charged more would-be whistleblowers with violating state secrecy laws than all previous administrations combined. In one case, exhaustively chronicled by Jane Mayer in The New Yorker, the Obama Administration aggressively went after Thomas Drake, a former NSA employee, who blew the whistle on former colleagues who he regarded as harming national security. "

There are dozens of other horrifying examples of the soft dictator type regime that's in office now, and notice should be taken.
Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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9/28/2012 11:54:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/28/2012 11:53:07 AM, innomen wrote:
At 9/28/2012 11:50:30 AM, Koopin wrote:
But I have to vote for him, HE IS BLACK!!!!!

What was I thinking...

Typical white man, always trying to oppress the colored folk.
kfc
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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9/28/2012 11:56:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/28/2012 11:02:10 AM, innomen wrote:
I guess I'm a little behind the curve here, as this news was made public in August, but it's come to light that the White House has been using private emails and private servers for official White House communication with the sole purpose of cover ups. Allegations have been made that this method of covert communication has been used in actions such as fast and furious, as well as active political organizing on the public dime.

And if you think that all the secrecy is fairly benign, think again: " Killing American citizens with drones is the most extreme action that the Obama Administration takes in secret. President Obama insists that he is empowered to secretly kill anyone whose name appears on a secret list he keeps. The guilt of the people on the list is presumed based on secret evidence assembled by a secret group of government officials who meet in secret. The strikes are subsequently carried out by secret agents in the Central Intelligence Agency. As if that Orwellian spectacle, bereft of checks and balances, weren't invitation enough to abuses, the government won't even reveal the legal reasoning that supposedly justifies its suspension of due process, even for American citizens. That too is deemed a secret." and if you think this is from one of Geo's whacky sites, it's from the Atlantic http://www.theatlantic.com... far from a right wing publication.

And if you think speaking truth to power is a patriotic value of the Democrats, think again: "President Obama has charged more would-be whistleblowers with violating state secrecy laws than all previous administrations combined. In one case, exhaustively chronicled by Jane Mayer in The New Yorker, the Obama Administration aggressively went after Thomas Drake, a former NSA employee, who blew the whistle on former colleagues who he regarded as harming national security. "

There are dozens of other horrifying examples of the soft dictator type regime that's in office now, and notice should be taken.

Well, I don't generally think that Liberals and Conservatives are quite as fascist as Libertarians make them out to be, so I'm inclined to take this with a grain of salt. Still, there has to be a limit on power.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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9/28/2012 12:08:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/28/2012 11:56:40 AM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/28/2012 11:02:10 AM, innomen wrote:
I guess I'm a little behind the curve here, as this news was made public in August, but it's come to light that the White House has been using private emails and private servers for official White House communication with the sole purpose of cover ups. Allegations have been made that this method of covert communication has been used in actions such as fast and furious, as well as active political organizing on the public dime.

And if you think that all the secrecy is fairly benign, think again: " Killing American citizens with drones is the most extreme action that the Obama Administration takes in secret. President Obama insists that he is empowered to secretly kill anyone whose name appears on a secret list he keeps. The guilt of the people on the list is presumed based on secret evidence assembled by a secret group of government officials who meet in secret. The strikes are subsequently carried out by secret agents in the Central Intelligence Agency. As if that Orwellian spectacle, bereft of checks and balances, weren't invitation enough to abuses, the government won't even reveal the legal reasoning that supposedly justifies its suspension of due process, even for American citizens. That too is deemed a secret." and if you think this is from one of Geo's whacky sites, it's from the Atlantic http://www.theatlantic.com... far from a right wing publication.

And if you think speaking truth to power is a patriotic value of the Democrats, think again: "President Obama has charged more would-be whistleblowers with violating state secrecy laws than all previous administrations combined. In one case, exhaustively chronicled by Jane Mayer in The New Yorker, the Obama Administration aggressively went after Thomas Drake, a former NSA employee, who blew the whistle on former colleagues who he regarded as harming national security. "

There are dozens of other horrifying examples of the soft dictator type regime that's in office now, and notice should be taken.

Well, I don't generally think that Liberals and Conservatives are quite as fascist as Libertarians make them out to be, so I'm inclined to take this with a grain of salt. Still, there has to be a limit on power.

Yeah that makes sense.

yikes.
slo1
Posts: 4,351
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9/28/2012 3:29:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Thanks for posting this.

If there is one thing that burns me, it is the fact that Democrats spent 8 years railing against Bush for violations of freedom and as soon as their guy gets in they could give a rats arse about Obama doing the same things Bush did and even more.

I just don't get it. People rationalize this crap by saying, "oh that is for people who do wrong, not me." They don't understand the precedence is now set and the Administration has every right without oversight to declare a US Citizen as a terrorist and drop a bomb on them while in another country, again without any type of oversight. They can eavesdrop on any US citizen having communications with someone out of country with no oversight.

I can't wait for one day Democrats or Republicans declare each other as terrorists. It will be interesting to watch the outcry of how unfair it is then.
MouthWash
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9/28/2012 3:52:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/28/2012 12:08:51 PM, innomen wrote:
At 9/28/2012 11:56:40 AM, MouthWash wrote:
At 9/28/2012 11:02:10 AM, innomen wrote:
I guess I'm a little behind the curve here, as this news was made public in August, but it's come to light that the White House has been using private emails and private servers for official White House communication with the sole purpose of cover ups. Allegations have been made that this method of covert communication has been used in actions such as fast and furious, as well as active political organizing on the public dime.

And if you think that all the secrecy is fairly benign, think again: " Killing American citizens with drones is the most extreme action that the Obama Administration takes in secret. President Obama insists that he is empowered to secretly kill anyone whose name appears on a secret list he keeps. The guilt of the people on the list is presumed based on secret evidence assembled by a secret group of government officials who meet in secret. The strikes are subsequently carried out by secret agents in the Central Intelligence Agency. As if that Orwellian spectacle, bereft of checks and balances, weren't invitation enough to abuses, the government won't even reveal the legal reasoning that supposedly justifies its suspension of due process, even for American citizens. That too is deemed a secret." and if you think this is from one of Geo's whacky sites, it's from the Atlantic http://www.theatlantic.com... far from a right wing publication.

And if you think speaking truth to power is a patriotic value of the Democrats, think again: "President Obama has charged more would-be whistleblowers with violating state secrecy laws than all previous administrations combined. In one case, exhaustively chronicled by Jane Mayer in The New Yorker, the Obama Administration aggressively went after Thomas Drake, a former NSA employee, who blew the whistle on former colleagues who he regarded as harming national security. "

There are dozens of other horrifying examples of the soft dictator type regime that's in office now, and notice should be taken.

Well, I don't generally think that Liberals and Conservatives are quite as fascist as Libertarians make them out to be, so I'm inclined to take this with a grain of salt. Still, there has to be a limit on power.

Yeah that makes sense.

yikes.

So if you post this on a liberal forum, they will have no response? No argument? Your evidence is so impenetrable? All I said was that I'm taking it with a grain of salt. I'm not denying it.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/28/2012 7:36:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
But but but he has a (D) in front of his name! How can that be true!?!?
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
UnStupendousMan
Posts: 3,475
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9/28/2012 7:50:39 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/28/2012 7:36:28 PM, socialpinko wrote:
But but but he has a (D) in front of his name! How can that be true!?!?

9/11. End thread.
Ron-Paul
Posts: 2,557
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9/29/2012 9:24:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
But, but, how are we going to reduce the debt if we don't keep electing presidents that spend more in exponential rates?
truthseeker613
Posts: 464
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10/5/2012 12:52:51 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/28/2012 11:02:10 AM, innomen wrote:
I guess I'm a little behind the curve here, as this news was made public in August, but it's come to light that the White House has been using private emails and private servers for official White House communication with the sole purpose of cover ups. Allegations have been made that this method of covert communication has been used in actions such as fast and furious, as well as active political organizing on the public dime.

And if you think that all the secrecy is fairly benign, think again: " Killing American citizens with drones is the most extreme action that the Obama Administration takes in secret. President Obama insists that he is empowered to secretly kill anyone whose name appears on a secret list he keeps. The guilt of the people on the list is presumed based on secret evidence assembled by a secret group of government officials who meet in secret. The strikes are subsequently carried out by secret agents in the Central Intelligence Agency. As if that Orwellian spectacle, bereft of checks and balances, weren't invitation enough to abuses, the government won't even reveal the legal reasoning that supposedly justifies its suspension of due process, even for American citizens. That too is deemed a secret." and if you think this is from one of Geo's whacky sites, it's from the Atlantic http://www.theatlantic.com... far from a right wing publication.

And if you think speaking truth to power is a patriotic value of the Democrats, think again: "President Obama has charged more would-be whistleblowers with violating state secrecy laws than all previous administrations combined. In one case, exhaustively chronicled by Jane Mayer in The New Yorker, the Obama Administration aggressively went after Thomas Drake, a former NSA employee, who blew the whistle on former colleagues who he regarded as harming national security. "

There are dozens of other horrifying examples of the soft dictator type regime that's in office now, and notice should be taken.

Great post would you be able to tell me were to find "dozens of other horrifying examples"?
http://www.nydailynews.com...

royalpaladin: I'd rather support people who kill spies than a nation that organizes assassination squads (Kidon) to illegally enter into other nations and kill anybody who is not a Zionist. Who knows when they'll kill me for the crime of not supporting Israel?

Koopin: LOL! I just imagine Royal sitting in here apartment at night, when suddenly she hears a man outside speaking Hebrew as sh
sadolite
Posts: 8,838
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10/6/2012 7:21:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
The only "transparent" Presidency this country has had is The George Washington presidency.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Double_Helix46
Posts: 466
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10/6/2012 7:40:27 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/5/2012 12:52:51 AM, truthseeker613 wrote:
At 9/28/2012 11:02:10 AM, innomen wrote:

Great post would you be able to tell me were to find "dozens of other horrifying examples"?

I second that notion!
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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10/8/2012 9:08:07 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/6/2012 7:40:27 AM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
At 10/5/2012 12:52:51 AM, truthseeker613 wrote:
At 9/28/2012 11:02:10 AM, innomen wrote:

Great post would you be able to tell me were to find "dozens of other horrifying examples"?

I second that notion!

Read the Atlantic article, as if the above lacked gravity or quantity.

139 Executive Orders, circumventing Congress: http://dogmaandgeopolitics.wordpress.com...

Government by way of Czars : http://www.heraldextra.com...

Foreign Campaign contributions: http://www.breitbart.com...

Freedom of Information blocking:
"Obama is the sixth administration that"s been in office since I"ve been doing Freedom of Information Act work. " It"s kind of shocking to me to say this, but of the six, this administration is the worst on FOIA issues. The worst. There"s just no question about it," said Katherine Meyer, a Washington lawyer who"s been filing FOIA cases since 1978. "This administration is raising one barrier after another. " It"s gotten to the point where I"m stunned " I"m really stunned."
http://www.politico.com...

Drone War and Extra-Judicial Murder: http://www.guardian.co.uk...

There loads more, but I have to do some work.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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10/8/2012 9:30:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Executive Orders have increased exponentially since Bush II and Obama to the point of absurdity.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
inferno
Posts: 10,655
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10/9/2012 10:04:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/28/2012 11:02:10 AM, innomen wrote:
I guess I'm a little behind the curve here, as this news was made public in August, but it's come to light that the White House has been using private emails and private servers for official White House communication with the sole purpose of cover ups. Allegations have been made that this method of covert communication has been used in actions such as fast and furious, as well as active political organizing on the public dime.

And if you think that all the secrecy is fairly benign, think again: " Killing American citizens with drones is the most extreme action that the Obama Administration takes in secret. President Obama insists that he is empowered to secretly kill anyone whose name appears on a secret list he keeps. The guilt of the people on the list is presumed based on secret evidence assembled by a secret group of government officials who meet in secret. The strikes are subsequently carried out by secret agents in the Central Intelligence Agency. As if that Orwellian spectacle, bereft of checks and balances, weren't invitation enough to abuses, the government won't even reveal the legal reasoning that supposedly justifies its suspension of due process, even for American citizens. That too is deemed a secret." and if you think this is from one of Geo's whacky sites, it's from the Atlantic http://www.theatlantic.com... far from a right wing publication.

And if you think speaking truth to power is a patriotic value of the Democrats, think again: "President Obama has charged more would-be whistleblowers with violating state secrecy laws than all previous administrations combined. In one case, exhaustively chronicled by Jane Mayer in The New Yorker, the Obama Administration aggressively went after Thomas Drake, a former NSA employee, who blew the whistle on former colleagues who he regarded as harming national security. "

There are dozens of other horrifying examples of the soft dictator type regime that's in office now, and notice should be taken.

This post is very ignorant and ill informed. Politics is a game and you are another Me Innomen, who is being played. And like a fiddle. This is the devils game and no American President has your best interest at heart.
They are all liars, and theives. Corruption is what got them there in the first place.
They violate the Constitution, create wars, and destroy the middle class.
And that is only a small fraction of what is going on, not to mention what is happening behind closed doors. So again, please go back to being the intelligent Men that you are. And dont be a slave to propaganda.
imabench
Posts: 21,220
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10/9/2012 10:23:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/28/2012 11:02:10 AM, innomen wrote:
I guess I'm a little behind the curve here, as this news was made public in August, but it's come to light that the White House has been using private emails and private servers for official White House communication with the sole purpose of cover ups. Allegations have been made that this method of covert communication has been used in actions such as fast and furious, as well as active political organizing on the public dime.

And if you think that all the secrecy is fairly benign, think again: "Killing American citizens with drones is the most extreme action that the Obama Administration takes in secret.

Pause. Ive heard this argument before. People seem to mistake that "american citizens" can apply to a person innocently living in Kentucky. This use of drone killings is aimed and applied only towards noted terrorists living in the Middle East who are or used to have American Citizenship, not towards grandma living in Ohio.

President Obama insists that he is empowered to secretly kill anyone whose name appears on a secret list he keeps. The guilt of the people on the list is presumed based on secret evidence assembled by a secret group of government officials who meet in secret. The strikes are subsequently carried out by secret agents in the Central Intelligence Agency.

Well how else do you think that the government should name terrorists to kill? A congressional vote? The US has always had a very tough stance against terrorism, and it has always categorized which ones to aim for by deciding how much of a threat they are to the security of the world, and how weakened the terrorist organizations would become if this terrorist were to suddenly be blown to smithereens. We dont need a congressional vote or anything else to determine who is the best terrorist to target, and its better that this list be secret because if top terrorists knew the US was coming for them, they would take extra precautions to staying hidden or maybe even try to plot more attacks knowing their life may not last much longer.

As if that Orwellian spectacle, bereft of checks and balances, weren't invitation enough to abuses, the government won't even reveal the legal reasoning that supposedly justifies its suspension of due process, even for American citizens. That too is deemed a secret." and if you think this is from one of Geo's whacky sites, it's from the Atlantic http://www.theatlantic.com... far from a right wing publication.

We can all agree that suspending the due process clause is messed up for the US to do, even for terrorist suspects.

And if you think speaking truth to power is a patriotic value of the Democrats, think again: "President Obama has charged more would-be whistleblowers with violating state secrecy laws than all previous administrations combined. In one case, exhaustively chronicled by Jane Mayer in The New Yorker, the Obama Administration aggressively went after Thomas Drake, a former NSA employee, who blew the whistle on former colleagues who he regarded as harming national security. "

Well in this one you seem to be downplaying state secrecy laws and left out what secrets these whistleblowers allegedly exposed....

There are dozens of other horrifying examples of the soft dictator type regime that's in office now, and notice should be taken.

Ah a classic Obama is a dictator remark...... How original
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bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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10/9/2012 12:53:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Kill the tsar.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
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To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

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innomen
Posts: 10,052
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10/9/2012 1:45:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 10:23:45 AM, imabench wrote:
At 9/28/2012 11:02:10 AM, innomen wrote:
I guess I'm a little behind the curve here, as this news was made public in August, but it's come to light that the White House has been using private emails and private servers for official White House communication with the sole purpose of cover ups. Allegations have been made that this method of covert communication has been used in actions such as fast and furious, as well as active political organizing on the public dime.

And if you think that all the secrecy is fairly benign, think again: "Killing American citizens with drones is the most extreme action that the Obama Administration takes in secret.

Pause. Ive heard this argument before. People seem to mistake that "american citizens" can apply to a person innocently living in Kentucky. This use of drone killings is aimed and applied only towards noted terrorists living in the Middle East who are or used to have American Citizenship, not towards grandma living in Ohio.

President Obama insists that he is empowered to secretly kill anyone whose name appears on a secret list he keeps. The guilt of the people on the list is presumed based on secret evidence assembled by a secret group of government officials who meet in secret. The strikes are subsequently carried out by secret agents in the Central Intelligence Agency.

Well how else do you think that the government should name terrorists to kill? A congressional vote? The US has always had a very tough stance against terrorism, and it has always categorized which ones to aim for by deciding how much of a threat they are to the security of the world, and how weakened the terrorist organizations would become if this terrorist were to suddenly be blown to smithereens. We dont need a congressional vote or anything else to determine who is the best terrorist to target, and its better that this list be secret because if top terrorists knew the US was coming for them, they would take extra precautions to staying hidden or maybe even try to plot more attacks knowing their life may not last much longer.

As if that Orwellian spectacle, bereft of checks and balances, weren't invitation enough to abuses, the government won't even reveal the legal reasoning that supposedly justifies its suspension of due process, even for American citizens. That too is deemed a secret." and if you think this is from one of Geo's whacky sites, it's from the Atlantic http://www.theatlantic.com... far from a right wing publication.

We can all agree that suspending the due process clause is messed up for the US to do, even for terrorist suspects.

And if you think speaking truth to power is a patriotic value of the Democrats, think again: "President Obama has charged more would-be whistleblowers with violating state secrecy laws than all previous administrations combined. In one case, exhaustively chronicled by Jane Mayer in The New Yorker, the Obama Administration aggressively went after Thomas Drake, a former NSA employee, who blew the whistle on former colleagues who he regarded as harming national security. "

Well in this one you seem to be downplaying state secrecy laws and left out what secrets these whistleblowers allegedly exposed....

There are dozens of other horrifying examples of the soft dictator type regime that's in office now, and notice should be taken.

Ah a classic Obama is a dictator remark...... How original

Let's be clear that you are not actually, effectively, defending his promise of being the least transparent and is actually the least transparent. There was no intention of being transparent from the very beginning of his presidency. Your response sounds like some obligatory remarks to defend your tribe. Not so different than the guy above you, which should cause you some pause.
Thaddeus
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10/9/2012 2:01:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 10:23:45 AM, imabench wrote:
At 9/28/2012 11:02:10 AM, innomen wrote:
I guess I'm a little behind the curve here, as this news was made public in August, but it's come to light that the White House has been using private emails and private servers for official White House communication with the sole purpose of cover ups. Allegations have been made that this method of covert communication has been used in actions such as fast and furious, as well as active political organizing on the public dime.

And if you think that all the secrecy is fairly benign, think again: "Killing American citizens with drones is the most extreme action that the Obama Administration takes in secret.

Pause. Ive heard this argument before. People seem to mistake that "american citizens" can apply to a person innocently living in Kentucky. This use of drone killings is aimed and applied only towards noted terrorists living in the Middle East who are or used to have American Citizenship, not towards grandma living in Ohio.

You think that's any better? If so you are a sick bastard. Though I must admit, I am less concerned about the american citizens he killed than the certainly innocent civilians killed through drone strikes. Also do you think that Abdulrahman al-Awlaki a 16 year old american was a terrorist?

President Obama insists that he is empowered to secretly kill anyone whose name appears on a secret list he keeps. The guilt of the people on the list is presumed based on secret evidence assembled by a secret group of government officials who meet in secret. The strikes are subsequently carried out by secret agents in the Central Intelligence Agency.

Well how else do you think that the government should name terrorists to kill? A congressional vote? The US has always had a very tough stance against terrorism, and it has always categorized which ones to aim for by deciding how much of a threat they are to the security of the world, and how weakened the terrorist organizations would become if this terrorist were to suddenly be blown to smithereens.

False dichotomy. There are certainly more moral solutions (and solutions which have accountability) than the current system which is indefensible. Saying that it has to be a congressional vote (not really seeing how that would be worse, but working on that premise) would be to ignore other possible methods. Also this would be defensible up to when they stopped killing terrorists and started throwing in civilians. At that point it is wrong no matter how it is done.

We dont need a congressional vote or anything else to determine who is the best terrorist to target, and its better that this list be secret because if top terrorists knew the US was coming for them, they would take extra precautions to staying hidden or maybe even try to plot more attacks knowing their life may not last much longer.

You seem to be labouring under the delusion that these drone strikes are actually protecting America. The american citizens were in Yemen so lets use that as a basis - do you believe there is any credible reason to suppose the 400 al quaeda in yemen represent enough of a threat to America that it is worth killing innocents to attack them?


As if that Orwellian spectacle, bereft of checks and balances, weren't invitation enough to abuses, the government won't even reveal the legal reasoning that supposedly justifies its suspension of due process, even for American citizens. That too is deemed a secret." and if you think this is from one of Geo's whacky sites, it's from the Atlantic http://www.theatlantic.com... far from a right wing publication.

We can all agree that suspending the due process clause is messed up for the US to do, even for terrorist suspects.

And if you think speaking truth to power is a patriotic value of the Democrats, think again: "President Obama has charged more would-be whistleblowers with violating state secrecy laws than all previous administrations combined. In one case, exhaustively chronicled by Jane Mayer in The New Yorker, the Obama Administration aggressively went after Thomas Drake, a former NSA employee, who blew the whistle on former colleagues who he regarded as harming national security. "

Well in this one you seem to be downplaying state secrecy laws and left out what secrets these whistleblowers allegedly exposed....

There are dozens of other horrifying examples of the soft dictator type regime that's in office now, and notice should be taken.

Ah a classic Obama is a dictator remark...... How original

He has a democratic "mandate" so definitionally he isn't, but he certainly has more blood on his hands than many actual dictators.
inferno
Posts: 10,655
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10/9/2012 5:08:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 1:45:42 PM, innomen wrote:
At 10/9/2012 10:23:45 AM, imabench wrote:
At 9/28/2012 11:02:10 AM, innomen wrote:
I guess I'm a little behind the curve here, as this news was made public in August, but it's come to light that the White House has been using private emails and private servers for official White House communication with the sole purpose of cover ups. Allegations have been made that this method of covert communication has been used in actions such as fast and furious, as well as active political organizing on the public dime.

And if you think that all the secrecy is fairly benign, think again: "Killing American citizens with drones is the most extreme action that the Obama Administration takes in secret.

Pause. Ive heard this argument before. People seem to mistake that "american citizens" can apply to a person innocently living in Kentucky. This use of drone killings is aimed and applied only towards noted terrorists living in the Middle East who are or used to have American Citizenship, not towards grandma living in Ohio.

President Obama insists that he is empowered to secretly kill anyone whose name appears on a secret list he keeps. The guilt of the people on the list is presumed based on secret evidence assembled by a secret group of government officials who meet in secret. The strikes are subsequently carried out by secret agents in the Central Intelligence Agency.

Well how else do you think that the government should name terrorists to kill? A congressional vote? The US has always had a very tough stance against terrorism, and it has always categorized which ones to aim for by deciding how much of a threat they are to the security of the world, and how weakened the terrorist organizations would become if this terrorist were to suddenly be blown to smithereens. We dont need a congressional vote or anything else to determine who is the best terrorist to target, and its better that this list be secret because if top terrorists knew the US was coming for them, they would take extra precautions to staying hidden or maybe even try to plot more attacks knowing their life may not last much longer.

As if that Orwellian spectacle, bereft of checks and balances, weren't invitation enough to abuses, the government won't even reveal the legal reasoning that supposedly justifies its suspension of due process, even for American citizens. That too is deemed a secret." and if you think this is from one of Geo's whacky sites, it's from the Atlantic http://www.theatlantic.com... far from a right wing publication.

We can all agree that suspending the due process clause is messed up for the US to do, even for terrorist suspects.

And if you think speaking truth to power is a patriotic value of the Democrats, think again: "President Obama has charged more would-be whistleblowers with violating state secrecy laws than all previous administrations combined. In one case, exhaustively chronicled by Jane Mayer in The New Yorker, the Obama Administration aggressively went after Thomas Drake, a former NSA employee, who blew the whistle on former colleagues who he regarded as harming national security. "

Well in this one you seem to be downplaying state secrecy laws and left out what secrets these whistleblowers allegedly exposed....

There are dozens of other horrifying examples of the soft dictator type regime that's in office now, and notice should be taken.

Ah a classic Obama is a dictator remark...... How original

Let's be clear that you are not actually, effectively, defending his promise of being the least transparent and is actually the least transparent. There was no intention of being transparent from the very beginning of his presidency. Your response sounds like some obligatory remarks to defend your tribe. Not so different than the guy above you, which should cause you some pause.

There is no defense for anyone. Obama and Romney are the same. Now again go back and reclaim your itelligence. And stop resorting to assumptionism and propaganda.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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10/10/2012 3:48:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/9/2012 5:08:08 PM, inferno wrote:
At 10/9/2012 1:45:42 PM, innomen wrote:
At 10/9/2012 10:23:45 AM, imabench wrote:
At 9/28/2012 11:02:10 AM, innomen wrote:
I guess I'm a little behind the curve here, as this news was made public in August, but it's come to light that the White House has been using private emails and private servers for official White House communication with the sole purpose of cover ups. Allegations have been made that this method of covert communication has been used in actions such as fast and furious, as well as active political organizing on the public dime.

And if you think that all the secrecy is fairly benign, think again: "Killing American citizens with drones is the most extreme action that the Obama Administration takes in secret.

Pause. Ive heard this argument before. People seem to mistake that "american citizens" can apply to a person innocently living in Kentucky. This use of drone killings is aimed and applied only towards noted terrorists living in the Middle East who are or used to have American Citizenship, not towards grandma living in Ohio.

President Obama insists that he is empowered to secretly kill anyone whose name appears on a secret list he keeps. The guilt of the people on the list is presumed based on secret evidence assembled by a secret group of government officials who meet in secret. The strikes are subsequently carried out by secret agents in the Central Intelligence Agency.

Well how else do you think that the government should name terrorists to kill? A congressional vote? The US has always had a very tough stance against terrorism, and it has always categorized which ones to aim for by deciding how much of a threat they are to the security of the world, and how weakened the terrorist organizations would become if this terrorist were to suddenly be blown to smithereens. We dont need a congressional vote or anything else to determine who is the best terrorist to target, and its better that this list be secret because if top terrorists knew the US was coming for them, they would take extra precautions to staying hidden or maybe even try to plot more attacks knowing their life may not last much longer.

As if that Orwellian spectacle, bereft of checks and balances, weren't invitation enough to abuses, the government won't even reveal the legal reasoning that supposedly justifies its suspension of due process, even for American citizens. That too is deemed a secret." and if you think this is from one of Geo's whacky sites, it's from the Atlantic http://www.theatlantic.com... far from a right wing publication.

We can all agree that suspending the due process clause is messed up for the US to do, even for terrorist suspects.

And if you think speaking truth to power is a patriotic value of the Democrats, think again: "President Obama has charged more would-be whistleblowers with violating state secrecy laws than all previous administrations combined. In one case, exhaustively chronicled by Jane Mayer in The New Yorker, the Obama Administration aggressively went after Thomas Drake, a former NSA employee, who blew the whistle on former colleagues who he regarded as harming national security. "

Well in this one you seem to be downplaying state secrecy laws and left out what secrets these whistleblowers allegedly exposed....

There are dozens of other horrifying examples of the soft dictator type regime that's in office now, and notice should be taken.

Ah a classic Obama is a dictator remark...... How original

Let's be clear that you are not actually, effectively, defending his promise of being the least transparent and is actually the least transparent. There was no intention of being transparent from the very beginning of his presidency. Your response sounds like some obligatory remarks to defend your tribe. Not so different than the guy above you, which should cause you some pause.

There is no defense for anyone. Obama and Romney are the same. Now again go back and reclaim your itelligence. And stop resorting to assumptionism and propaganda.

And you go back to your tribalistic unquestioning devotion to your president. It's one thing to vote for someone and it's another to blindly follow without a word of critique. You support my belief that the left is far less likely to question their leader than the right.
inferno
Posts: 10,655
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10/10/2012 10:31:16 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/10/2012 3:48:33 AM, innomen wrote:
At 10/9/2012 5:08:08 PM, inferno wrote:
At 10/9/2012 1:45:42 PM, innomen wrote:
At 10/9/2012 10:23:45 AM, imabench wrote:
At 9/28/2012 11:02:10 AM, innomen wrote:
I guess I'm a little behind the curve here, as this news was made public in August, but it's come to light that the White House has been using private emails and private servers for official White House communication with the sole purpose of cover ups. Allegations have been made that this method of covert communication has been used in actions such as fast and furious, as well as active political organizing on the public dime.

And if you think that all the secrecy is fairly benign, think again: "Killing American citizens with drones is the most extreme action that the Obama Administration takes in secret.

Pause. Ive heard this argument before. People seem to mistake that "american citizens" can apply to a person innocently living in Kentucky. This use of drone killings is aimed and applied only towards noted terrorists living in the Middle East who are or used to have American Citizenship, not towards grandma living in Ohio.

President Obama insists that he is empowered to secretly kill anyone whose name appears on a secret list he keeps. The guilt of the people on the list is presumed based on secret evidence assembled by a secret group of government officials who meet in secret. The strikes are subsequently carried out by secret agents in the Central Intelligence Agency.

Well how else do you think that the government should name terrorists to kill? A congressional vote? The US has always had a very tough stance against terrorism, and it has always categorized which ones to aim for by deciding how much of a threat they are to the security of the world, and how weakened the terrorist organizations would become if this terrorist were to suddenly be blown to smithereens. We dont need a congressional vote or anything else to determine who is the best terrorist to target, and its better that this list be secret because if top terrorists knew the US was coming for them, they would take extra precautions to staying hidden or maybe even try to plot more attacks knowing their life may not last much longer.

As if that Orwellian spectacle, bereft of checks and balances, weren't invitation enough to abuses, the government won't even reveal the legal reasoning that supposedly justifies its suspension of due process, even for American citizens. That too is deemed a secret." and if you think this is from one of Geo's whacky sites, it's from the Atlantic http://www.theatlantic.com... far from a right wing publication.

We can all agree that suspending the due process clause is messed up for the US to do, even for terrorist suspects.

And if you think speaking truth to power is a patriotic value of the Democrats, think again: "President Obama has charged more would-be whistleblowers with violating state secrecy laws than all previous administrations combined. In one case, exhaustively chronicled by Jane Mayer in The New Yorker, the Obama Administration aggressively went after Thomas Drake, a former NSA employee, who blew the whistle on former colleagues who he regarded as harming national security. "

Well in this one you seem to be downplaying state secrecy laws and left out what secrets these whistleblowers allegedly exposed....

There are dozens of other horrifying examples of the soft dictator type regime that's in office now, and notice should be taken.

Ah a classic Obama is a dictator remark...... How original

Let's be clear that you are not actually, effectively, defending his promise of being the least transparent and is actually the least transparent. There was no intention of being transparent from the very beginning of his presidency. Your response sounds like some obligatory remarks to defend your tribe. Not so different than the guy above you, which should cause you some pause.

There is no defense for anyone. Obama and Romney are the same. Now again go back and reclaim your itelligence. And stop resorting to assumptionism and propaganda.

And you go back to your tribalistic unquestioning devotion to your president. It's one thing to vote for someone and it's another to blindly follow without a word of critique. You support my belief that the left is far less likely to question their leader than the right.

I do not plan to vote for Obama in this up and coming election. I could care less about the status quo and the deception that lies within. I have no devotion to anyone but myself and my family. My Liberal mind is natural and has nothing to do with the Democratic party or its policies. Both sides are corrupt and have done nothing but divide and conquer. Since you insist on giving up your sanity or sense of logic, then continue to wave the banner of hate and bigotry at your own peril.
I wil decline from participating in this form of propaganda.
It does not affect me. Too bad I cannot say the same about you Mr Innomen.