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Russia/Ukraine continued decline of liberty

slo1
Posts: 4,318
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10/11/2012 7:09:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://www.bloomberg.com...

Forget gay marriage. In Russia and Ukraine, politicians are treating homosexuality like a curable addiction -- and even a crime.
Last week, acting on a widespread popular belief that sexual orientation is a matter of indoctrination, the Ukrainian parliament gave its preliminary approval to a bill that makes "propaganda of homosexuality" a criminal offense, punishable by a fine of about $10,000 or as many as five years in prison. "The spread of homosexuality is a threat to national security because it propagates the HIV/AIDS epidemic, destroys the family and could lead to a demographic crisis," the bill's drafters wrote in an explanatory note. The danger, they reasoned, is great enough to justify a limitation on freedom of speech.
Absurd as the legislators' logic may sound, it is deadly serious. "A kid walks along Khreshchatik [Kiev's main street] and sees a same-sex couple imposing their relationship on him," one of the bill's drafters, Communist parliamentary deputy Yevgeny Tsarkov, told the newspaper Gazeta Kyivskaya. "That cannot be allowed. Children should be protected against such information."
The vote for the bill, which received 289 votes out of 450 with the backing of the ruling Regions Party, roughly reflected Ukrainian public opinion. A recent poll by the research firm Socis suggested that 61 percent of Kyiv residents believe that promoting homosexuality should be punishable by prison. Only 11 percent opposed any kind of punishment. The situation is similar in Russia. In a poll by the All-Russian Center for the Study of Public Opinion, 86 percent of respondents supported a ban on "propaganda of homosexuality" among minors.
Although attempts to pass national anti-gay laws have so far failed in Russia, some regions and municipalities have taken matters into their own hands. The first local law banning the promotion of homosexuality was enacted in the city of Ryazan, east of Moscow, in 2006. The biggest victory for Russian homophobes came in March 2012, when St. Petersburg, Russia's second city and President Vladimir Putin's birthplace, passed an identical measure. In all, promoting a gay lifestyle is now illegal in 10 Russian regions.
Homosexuality "is best cured by fasting and prayer," said Vitaly Milonov, the primary backer of the St. Petersburg law and a member of the ruling United Russia party, in a radio interview. "I do not know of a single case in the Russian Orthodox Church when sincere repentance of this sin could not cure a person."
slo1
Posts: 4,318
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10/11/2012 7:16:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Can it be argued that Russia is on the brink of being a full blown Fascist state?

Mixed economy
Continued aggressive nationalism
elimination of individual freedoms

We just really need Putin to make final move and take control as dictator of the joint.

Anyway, I don't recommend anyone who is gay travel to Russia or Ukraine until some common sense comes around.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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10/11/2012 9:00:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
What, there was some illusion that Russia wasn't a essential dictatorship?
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MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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10/12/2012 9:58:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/11/2012 7:09:50 PM, slo1 wrote:
http://www.bloomberg.com...

Forget gay marriage. In Russia and Ukraine, politicians are treating homosexuality like a curable addiction -- and even a crime.
Last week, acting on a widespread popular belief that sexual orientation is a matter of indoctrination, the Ukrainian parliament gave its preliminary approval to a bill that makes "propaganda of homosexuality" a criminal offense, punishable by a fine of about $10,000 or as many as five years in prison. "The spread of homosexuality is a threat to national security because it propagates the HIV/AIDS epidemic, destroys the family and could lead to a demographic crisis," the bill's drafters wrote in an explanatory note. The danger, they reasoned, is great enough to justify a limitation on freedom of speech.
Absurd as the legislators' logic may sound, it is deadly serious. "A kid walks along Khreshchatik [Kiev's main street] and sees a same-sex couple imposing their relationship on him," one of the bill's drafters, Communist parliamentary deputy Yevgeny Tsarkov, told the newspaper Gazeta Kyivskaya. "That cannot be allowed. Children should be protected against such information."
The vote for the bill, which received 289 votes out of 450 with the backing of the ruling Regions Party, roughly reflected Ukrainian public opinion. A recent poll by the research firm Socis suggested that 61 percent of Kyiv residents believe that promoting homosexuality should be punishable by prison. Only 11 percent opposed any kind of punishment. The situation is similar in Russia. In a poll by the All-Russian Center for the Study of Public Opinion, 86 percent of respondents supported a ban on "propaganda of homosexuality" among minors.
Although attempts to pass national anti-gay laws have so far failed in Russia, some regions and municipalities have taken matters into their own hands. The first local law banning the promotion of homosexuality was enacted in the city of Ryazan, east of Moscow, in 2006. The biggest victory for Russian homophobes came in March 2012, when St. Petersburg, Russia's second city and President Vladimir Putin's birthplace, passed an identical measure. In all, promoting a gay lifestyle is now illegal in 10 Russian regions.
Homosexuality "is best cured by fasting and prayer," said Vitaly Milonov, the primary backer of the St. Petersburg law and a member of the ruling United Russia party, in a radio interview. "I do not know of a single case in the Russian Orthodox Church when sincere repentance of this sin could not cure a person."


I don't think it's asking too much to make gays stop flaunting their lifestyles in front of decent people and demanding that marriage be redefined to suit their needs.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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10/12/2012 10:10:49 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/12/2012 9:58:41 AM, MouthWash wrote:
At 10/11/2012 7:09:50 PM, slo1 wrote:
http://www.bloomberg.com...

Forget gay marriage. In Russia and Ukraine, politicians are treating homosexuality like a curable addiction -- and even a crime.
Last week, acting on a widespread popular belief that sexual orientation is a matter of indoctrination, the Ukrainian parliament gave its preliminary approval to a bill that makes "propaganda of homosexuality" a criminal offense, punishable by a fine of about $10,000 or as many as five years in prison. "The spread of homosexuality is a threat to national security because it propagates the HIV/AIDS epidemic, destroys the family and could lead to a demographic crisis," the bill's drafters wrote in an explanatory note. The danger, they reasoned, is great enough to justify a limitation on freedom of speech.
Absurd as the legislators' logic may sound, it is deadly serious. "A kid walks along Khreshchatik [Kiev's main street] and sees a same-sex couple imposing their relationship on him," one of the bill's drafters, Communist parliamentary deputy Yevgeny Tsarkov, told the newspaper Gazeta Kyivskaya. "That cannot be allowed. Children should be protected against such information."
The vote for the bill, which received 289 votes out of 450 with the backing of the ruling Regions Party, roughly reflected Ukrainian public opinion. A recent poll by the research firm Socis suggested that 61 percent of Kyiv residents believe that promoting homosexuality should be punishable by prison. Only 11 percent opposed any kind of punishment. The situation is similar in Russia. In a poll by the All-Russian Center for the Study of Public Opinion, 86 percent of respondents supported a ban on "propaganda of homosexuality" among minors.
Although attempts to pass national anti-gay laws have so far failed in Russia, some regions and municipalities have taken matters into their own hands. The first local law banning the promotion of homosexuality was enacted in the city of Ryazan, east of Moscow, in 2006. The biggest victory for Russian homophobes came in March 2012, when St. Petersburg, Russia's second city and President Vladimir Putin's birthplace, passed an identical measure. In all, promoting a gay lifestyle is now illegal in 10 Russian regions.
Homosexuality "is best cured by fasting and prayer," said Vitaly Milonov, the primary backer of the St. Petersburg law and a member of the ruling United Russia party, in a radio interview. "I do not know of a single case in the Russian Orthodox Church when sincere repentance of this sin could not cure a person."


I don't think it's asking too much to make gays stop flaunting their lifestyles in front of decent people and demanding that marriage be redefined to suit their needs.

I could respond with logical analysis, but the effort would be wasted on you since I have already done it before, so I'll just note that I don't think Isabella and Ferdinand were asking too much when they made Jews and Muslims stop flaunting their lifestyle in front of decent Catholics and stop demanding that the state religion be redefined to suit their needs.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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10/12/2012 10:28:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't support homosexuality or accept it as inborn, but criminalizing sodomy is ridiculous. However, I don't support the gay agenda either, so I guess I am against homosexuality most of the time except in these extreme cases.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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10/12/2012 10:30:46 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/12/2012 10:28:57 AM, 16kadams wrote:
I don't support homosexuality or accept it as inborn, but criminalizing sodomy is ridiculous. However, I don't support the gay agenda either, so I guess I am against homosexuality most of the time except in these extreme cases.

You should be jailed for not being decent enough to condemn sodomy. It's disgusting for people to be able to explore their own sexualities in their homes; we need government in every bedroom.
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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10/12/2012 10:30:52 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/12/2012 10:28:57 AM, 16kadams wrote:
I don't support homosexuality or accept it as inborn, but criminalizing sodomy is ridiculous. However, I don't support the gay agenda either, so I guess I am against homosexuality most of the time except in these extreme cases.

And yes, having gay sex legal technically promotes homosexuality hence my wording.
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
16kadams
Posts: 10,497
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10/12/2012 10:44:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/12/2012 10:30:46 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 10/12/2012 10:28:57 AM, 16kadams wrote:
I don't support homosexuality or accept it as inborn, but criminalizing sodomy is ridiculous. However, I don't support the gay agenda either, so I guess I am against homosexuality most of the time except in these extreme cases.

You should be jailed for not being decent enough to condemn sodomy. It's disgusting for people to be able to explore their own sexualities in their homes; we need government in every bedroom.

I agree with their governments points, I don't like their conclusion. So, we agree for once! (kind of...)
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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10/12/2012 11:04:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/12/2012 10:44:59 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 10/12/2012 10:30:46 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 10/12/2012 10:28:57 AM, 16kadams wrote:
I don't support homosexuality or accept it as inborn, but criminalizing sodomy is ridiculous. However, I don't support the gay agenda either, so I guess I am against homosexuality most of the time except in these extreme cases.

You should be jailed for not being decent enough to condemn sodomy. It's disgusting for people to be able to explore their own sexualities in their homes; we need government in every bedroom.

I agree with their governments points, I don't like their conclusion. So, we agree for once! (kind of...)

I was being sarcastic . . .
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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10/12/2012 12:06:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/12/2012 10:32:46 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Never mind, I just found out that the Communist Party is backing this.

Are you surprised?
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)