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Palestinian killed as Israel shells Gaza

slo1
Posts: 4,318
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10/24/2012 9:36:40 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
It is so old. The two state solution is gone. Israel continues to settle the west bank and its plan to displace Palestinians. There will be radical groups within the Palestinians that will use terror tactics to fight for their independence for decades to come.

The fringe radical groups that want to push jews all the way out of the region will eventually dry up. I read somewhere even Hamas has reduced mortar attacks on Israel proper as they learn the lesson what it takes to rule their little strip of hell on earth and it is the even more radical groups that continue to shot rockets at Israel.

To over simplify, there are too outsider standpoints. One being through Christian lenses we are going to continue to support Israel as they continue to reabsorb the West Bank and eventually Gaza via settlements. Even obama may publicly denounce the settlements, but will not do anything to really show he does not support it.

Then there are folks like me that see this as civil war. Two groups of people on same land and they are fighting for it. I see no security benefit to the US to support either side and am just tired of seeing the "war" prolonged because we don't allow it to end. Either israell needs to exterminate 1/2 the palestinians, support a two state solution, or someone needs to give the Palestinians some weapons to make it a fair fight.
Double_Helix46
Posts: 466
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10/24/2012 10:17:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/24/2012 9:36:40 AM, slo1 wrote:
Then there are folks like me that see this as civil war. Two groups of people on same land and they are fighting for it. Either israell needs to exterminate 1/2 the palestinians, support a two state solution, or someone needs to give the Palestinians some weapons to make it a fair fight.:
slo1
Posts: 4,318
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10/24/2012 1:58:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said on Wednesday he would be ready for negotiations with Israel "straightaway" if the UN recognized Palestine as a non-member state.

His comments appeared to be another attempt to assure the United States that the Palestinian campaign for status change at the UN is not an attempt to circumvent bilateral talks with Israel deadlocked since 2010 over settlement construction in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

"We have resolved to go to the UN to save the two-state solution and to achieve the rights of our people as an observer state," Abbas told reporters during a visit by the Bulgarian president to the West Bank city of Ramallah.

"We're ready to go back to negotiations straightaway. Going to the UN is not a substitute for negotiations. We are in need of negotiations to solve the final status of issues that face us both," he said.

In a speech to the UN General Assembly last month, Abbas sought so-called "non-member state" status in the world body, a grade below the full recognition that eluded the Palestinians at the UN Security Council last year, due to insufficient backing.

U.S. envoy to the United Nations Susan Rice has said the Palestinian bid "would only jeopardize the peace process". Israel also opposes a change in the Palestinians's status.

http://www.haaretz.com...

Let me just translate this article.

"Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said on Wednesday he would be ready for negotiations with Israel "straightaway" if the UN recognized Palestine as a non-member state."

- Once the UN recognizes a Palestinian state then we will talk, because then we have a greater leverage to initiate a two state solution even-though we can't figure out among ourselves whether we want live next to the Jews or to drive them to the ocean.

"U.S. envoy to the United Nations Susan Rice has said the Palestinian bid "would only jeopardize the peace process". Israel also opposes a change in the Palestinians's status."

- Not going to recognize you as a state because that means Israel would have to stop settling more citizens in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Plus we don't want a two state solution anyway.

Question: What does all the above mean?
Answer: Warfare! The two state solution is dead just like Palestinian and Israeli collateral damage are.
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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11/8/2012 4:54:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Because every dead Palestinian is worth at least a hundred dead in China or Sudan, and thereby deserve their own protests each time Israel commits the unforgivable crime of collateral damage, right?

The two state solution is a joke. The Arab countries simply wanted to isolate and eventually destroy Israel by denying the Palestinian refugees citizenship and forcing them to pretend to be part of a persecuted culture that never existed, then demanding that they be returned to the land that their parents fled from because of their hatred of the Jews (Arabs who did not flee are today citizens of Israel). Tell me that a completely autonomous Palestinian state with its own military wouldn't become a hive for terrorism, anti-Semitism, and organizations like Al-Qaeda. Abbas (a former Holocaust denier) has even admitted that they won't recognize Israel because Sharia Law forbids it, and a recent poll shows that half of them say they will 'never' recognize it: [http://www.israeltoday.co.il...]. They've been indoctrinated by years of being raised on anti-Israel propaganda (they study the Protocols of the Elders of Zion in school), and Gaza Strip has essentially become a police state after Hamas took power- they didn't have any reason to start a war with Israel and they destroyed their own country as effectively as Kim ll Sung did in the Korean War (but you never heard anybody call the South Koreans aggressors).

To be honest, if I were in Israel's position, I'd do my best to culturally absorb them rather than expel them with force. The only hope they have of becoming a state is in ending their anti-Semitism, violence, and their government's immense corruption but I really can't see that happening when half the world honestly thinks that all they want is to be free of Israeli apartheid.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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11/8/2012 5:00:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/24/2012 1:58:01 PM, slo1 wrote:

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said on Wednesday he would be ready for negotiations with Israel "straightaway" if the UN recognized Palestine as a non-member state.

His comments appeared to be another attempt to assure the United States that the Palestinian campaign for status change at the UN is not an attempt to circumvent bilateral talks with Israel deadlocked since 2010 over settlement construction in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

"We have resolved to go to the UN to save the two-state solution and to achieve the rights of our people as an observer state," Abbas told reporters during a visit by the Bulgarian president to the West Bank city of Ramallah.

"We're ready to go back to negotiations straightaway. Going to the UN is not a substitute for negotiations. We are in need of negotiations to solve the final status of issues that face us both," he said.

In a speech to the UN General Assembly last month, Abbas sought so-called "non-member state" status in the world body, a grade below the full recognition that eluded the Palestinians at the UN Security Council last year, due to insufficient backing.

U.S. envoy to the United Nations Susan Rice has said the Palestinian bid "would only jeopardize the peace process". Israel also opposes a change in the Palestinians's status.

http://www.haaretz.com...

Let me just translate this article.

"Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas said on Wednesday he would be ready for negotiations with Israel "straightaway" if the UN recognized Palestine as a non-member state."

- Once the UN recognizes a Palestinian state then we will talk, because then we have a greater leverage to initiate a two state solution even-though we can't figure out among ourselves whether we want live next to the Jews or to drive them to the ocean.

"U.S. envoy to the United Nations Susan Rice has said the Palestinian bid "would only jeopardize the peace process". Israel also opposes a change in the Palestinians's status."

- Not going to recognize you as a state because that means Israel would have to stop settling more citizens in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. Plus we don't want a two state solution anyway.


Question: What does all the above mean?
Answer: Warfare! The two state solution is dead just like Palestinian and Israeli collateral damage are.


And I wouldn't quote the radical left-wing Haaretz if I were you. It may be based in Israel but its audience certainly is not.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
truthseeker613
Posts: 464
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11/13/2012 1:53:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/24/2012 6:05:51 AM, DontTreadOnMe wrote:
Uhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

http://www.aljazeera.com...

This is really wrong. The topic and article head line imply that an innocent Palestinian was killed by Israel.
While if you read the article it's the other way around.
Israel's killed a Palestinian militant, who was firing rockets on Israeli civilians.
http://www.nydailynews.com...

royalpaladin: I'd rather support people who kill spies than a nation that organizes assassination squads (Kidon) to illegally enter into other nations and kill anybody who is not a Zionist. Who knows when they'll kill me for the crime of not supporting Israel?

Koopin: LOL! I just imagine Royal sitting in here apartment at night, when suddenly she hears a man outside speaking Hebrew as sh
truthseeker613
Posts: 464
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11/13/2012 1:54:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 10/24/2012 10:17:32 AM, Double_Helix46 wrote:
At 10/24/2012 9:36:40 AM, slo1 wrote:
Then there are folks like me that see this as civil war. Two groups of people on same land and they are fighting for it. Either israell needs to exterminate 1/2 the palestinians, support a two state solution, or someone needs to give the Palestinians some weapons to make it a fair fight.:

Iran and other Arab countries have done a fine job with that.
http://www.nydailynews.com...

royalpaladin: I'd rather support people who kill spies than a nation that organizes assassination squads (Kidon) to illegally enter into other nations and kill anybody who is not a Zionist. Who knows when they'll kill me for the crime of not supporting Israel?

Koopin: LOL! I just imagine Royal sitting in here apartment at night, when suddenly she hears a man outside speaking Hebrew as sh
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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11/13/2012 2:19:37 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Who cares? It's one person. There's more important things going on in the world currently like how Uganda wants to kill homosexuals.
Ahmed.M
Posts: 616
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11/13/2012 7:27:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
My solution if I had enough power would be to let all Palestinians control all of the entire land (Jerusalem etc etc). Then I would cut off about of Germany or two thirds of Germany and the former Israelis/Jews can call their new land/country whatever they want. That would be a good solution. The Displaced Germans would be forced to live in that 1/3 of Germany.
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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11/14/2012 5:40:47 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/13/2012 7:27:42 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
My solution if I had enough power would be to let all Palestinians control all of the entire land (Jerusalem etc etc). Then I would cut off about of Germany or two thirds of Germany and the former Israelis/Jews can call their new land/country whatever they want. That would be a good solution. The Displaced Germans would be forced to live in that 1/3 of Germany.

Assuming all Jews are German, which they're not...
Ahmed.M
Posts: 616
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11/14/2012 5:59:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/14/2012 5:40:47 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 11/13/2012 7:27:42 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
My solution if I had enough power would be to let all Palestinians control all of the entire land (Jerusalem etc etc). Then I would cut off about of Germany or two thirds of Germany and the former Israelis/Jews can call their new land/country whatever they want. That would be a good solution. The Displaced Germans would be forced to live in that 1/3 of Germany.

Assuming all Jews are German, which they're not...

The Holocaust combined with the years of general disdain from Europe of Jews heavily pushed them to mass immigrate to Israel. Since the Holocaust was a major cause and is in Europe then it should pay the price.
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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11/15/2012 5:12:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/14/2012 5:59:19 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
At 11/14/2012 5:40:47 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 11/13/2012 7:27:42 PM, Ahmed.M wrote:
My solution if I had enough power would be to let all Palestinians control all of the entire land (Jerusalem etc etc). Then I would cut off about of Germany or two thirds of Germany and the former Israelis/Jews can call their new land/country whatever they want. That would be a good solution. The Displaced Germans would be forced to live in that 1/3 of Germany.

Assuming all Jews are German, which they're not...

The Holocaust combined with the years of general disdain from Europe of Jews heavily pushed them to mass immigrate to Israel. Since the Holocaust was a major cause and is in Europe then it should pay the price.

Yeah, but what about the one million Arab Jews forced out of their countries? You can't simply relocate an entire culture. Barring some sort of genocide/mass cultural assimilation I don't think that Israel will become Muslim again- the Crusaders simply conquered the area, while the Jews have built a Hebrew culture in it. I don't Muslims saying that Spain rightfully belongs to them because the Moors owned it. Imagine if Mecca was also a Jewish holy city and we demanded to have half of it (or all of it).

Muslims and Jews have historically been allies anyway. When the Arab world becomes more advanced and less nationalist (perhaps by being united under a single Muslim power) the hatred of Israel will stop.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/16/2012 2:36:08 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
"It's true that on Saturday, prior to the expanded Israeli bombardment, the military wing of the Popular Front For the Liberation of Palestine shot an anti-tank missile at an Israeli Defense Forces vehicle near the Gaza border, wounding four Israeli soldiers. But what prompted the firing of the anti-tank missile?

First, on Monday, November 5th, Israeli forces shot and killed 23 year old Ahmad Nabhani when he 'approached the border fence with Israel.' According to at least one account, Nabhani was mentally challenged.

Then, on Thursday, November 8th, the Israeli Occupation Forces " eight tanks and four bulldozers, to be exact " invaded southern Gaza, shooting and killing a 13-year old boy."
http://muslimvillage.com...
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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11/16/2012 2:44:19 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 2:37:10 AM, Mirza wrote:
The Zionists should be executed for their mass-murder on innocent people.

U trolling bro?
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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11/16/2012 2:49:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 2:36:08 AM, Mirza wrote:
"It's true that on Saturday, prior to the expanded Israeli bombardment, the military wing of the Popular Front For the Liberation of Palestine shot an anti-tank missile at an Israeli Defense Forces vehicle near the Gaza border, wounding four Israeli soldiers. But what prompted the firing of the anti-tank missile?

First, on Monday, November 5th, Israeli forces shot and killed 23 year old Ahmad Nabhani when he 'approached the border fence with Israel.' According to at least one account, Nabhani was mentally challenged.

Then, on Thursday, November 8th, the Israeli Occupation Forces " eight tanks and four bulldozers, to be exact " invaded southern Gaza, shooting and killing a 13-year old boy."
http://muslimvillage.com...

Even for a pro-Palestinian source, that is simply mindbogglingly sleazy. It's like it was directly made by some Muslim cleric in order to fuel Israel-hatred among their own population. Even the most anti-Israeli people on here should be ashamed to quote something like that.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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11/16/2012 4:17:02 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
MouthWash, No. I'm not talking about people who support the existence of the Jewish state and defend its sovereignty. Those who are directly responsible for mass-murder, be it soldiers or fanatic nationalists, should be brought to justice. (This includes Arabs who commit similar actions.) On your second point, are you affirming that the current events are mere responses to rocket attacks from Gaza?

Ahmed, Disregarding the history of Israel, I think it's a marvellous thing that Muslims near Israel have one place of refuge in case of oppression. Israel probably offers more freedom and prosperity for Muslims than in all the Arab countries combined.
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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11/16/2012 5:39:54 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 4:17:02 AM, Mirza wrote:
MouthWash, No. I'm not talking about people who support the existence of the Jewish state and defend its sovereignty. Those who are directly responsible for mass-murder, be it soldiers or fanatic nationalists, should be brought to justice. (This includes Arabs who commit similar actions.) On your second point, are you affirming that the current events are mere responses to rocket attacks from Gaza?

Obviously they should. There was a TV show I saw about Israeli soldiers who were accused of killing civilians, firing their weapons when ordered not to, forcing Palestinians to open doors with suspected bombs in them, etc. (They would have received life in prison as there is no death penalty in Israel).

Hamas (and similar organizations) are much more dangerous than the simple rocket-throwers they are painted as in the media. The Palestinians in the past have almost carried out large scale terror attacks against Israel and are now receiving support from Egypt (Israel's biggest enemy before the peace treaty) because the Muslim Brotherhood is powerful. The attacks on Gaza are always preemptive strikes, hence you cannot simply look at the damages on each side and declare who was in the wrong.

Your link sounded borderline insane, though. Of course someone who wanders up to a border where the guards are on the lookout for suicide bombers will get shot- it isn't as if mental handicaps can be identified or even proven to be mentally handicapped just by seeing them. If he wasn't rational, then it was entirely the fault of whoever was responsible for him for allowing him to be put in danger in the first place.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
slo1
Posts: 4,318
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11/16/2012 10:59:13 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/8/2012 5:00:46 PM, MouthWash wrote:


And I wouldn't quote the radical left-wing Haaretz if I were you. It may be based in Israel but its audience certainly is not.

It does not change the fact that Israel and the US are consistently trying to stop recognition of Palestine in the UN. They also has stopped various attempts to pass statements condemning Israel for continuing to settle the West Bank. On the other hand too many countries are obsessed with sticking it to Israel via the UN.

The only way to settle the entire mess is to get all the third parties out of the mix and let Israel and Palestinians figure it out. We should lead the effort by getting out of the bed that we are in with Israel.