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Ugandan "Kill The Gays" Bill

FREEDO
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11/15/2012 3:38:50 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
It escapes my understanding how there can be so much hate against such a harmless group of people.

Ugandan speaker, Rebecca Kadaga, is declaring that the "Kill the Gays" bill, first introduced in 2009, is likely to become law by the end of 2012.

For those unfamiliar with it:
Uganda's Anti-Homosexuality Bill (often called the "Kill the Gays bill" in the media) is a legislative proposal that would broaden the criminalisation of same-sex relations in Uganda by dividing homosexual behavior into two categories: "aggravated homosexuality", in which an "offender" would receive the death penalty, or "the offence of homosexuality" in which an offender would receive life imprisonment. "Aggravated homosexuality" is defined to include homosexual acts committed by a person who is HIV-positive, is a parent or authority figure, or who administers intoxicating substances, homosexual acts committed on minors or people with disabilities, and repeat offenders. "The offence of homosexuality" is defined to include same-sex sexual acts, involvement in a same-sex marriage, or an attempt to commit aggravated homosexuality. It further includes provisions for Ugandans who engage in same-sex relations outside of Uganda, asserting that they may be extradited for punishment back to Uganda, and includes penalties for individuals, companies, media organisations, or non-governmental organisations that know of gay people or support LGBT rights.
More reading:http://en.wikipedia.org...

Particularly absurd about this bill is that it criminalizes being HIV positive. Oh, the unimaginable ignorance it takes for humanity to institute something like this.
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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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11/15/2012 5:26:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
We discussed this yesterday in my Africa class yesterday, actually. The problem is that a lot of major Christian groups from the US are manipulating the people into being anti-gay by telling them that homosexuality is "un-African" and that "liberals" in the West want to impose homosexuality on Africa so that they can take it over again (an interesting thing to note is that Anti-gay bills were first introduced by the COLONIAL governments). We are exporting the culture war there because the hardcore Christians are losing it here.
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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11/15/2012 9:20:26 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Despite RoyalP's comments about European colonial influence, most African and Asian cultures have always been vehemently homophobic, just as European cultures used to be (and even today you don't have to go far in the West to find someone who is offended by homosexuality).

At the end of the day, it is up to each sovereign nation to decide their own laws and for their citizens to duly abide by them.

Think about how do you react when Muslim countries denounce the Westerns for drinking alcohol, for allowing their womenfolk to go with their heads uncovered, for allowing girls to be educated"they are trying to impose their cultural norms on us - which is wrong, but by the same token, we must allow people in other countries follow their own traditions.
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royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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11/15/2012 10:17:31 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/15/2012 9:20:26 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
Despite RoyalP's comments about European colonial influence, most African and Asian cultures have always been vehemently homophobic, just as European cultures used to be (and even today you don't have to go far in the West to find someone who is offended by homosexuality).

At the end of the day, it is up to each sovereign nation to decide their own laws and for their citizens to duly abide by them.

Think about how do you react when Muslim countries denounce the Westerns for drinking alcohol, for allowing their womenfolk to go with their heads uncovered, for allowing girls to be educated"they are trying to impose their cultural norms on us - which is wrong, but by the same token, we must allow people in other countries follow their own traditions.

No. When the traditions violate rights, we have every right to condemn them for it.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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11/15/2012 1:31:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/15/2012 10:17:31 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/15/2012 9:20:26 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
Despite RoyalP's comments about European colonial influence, most African and Asian cultures have always been vehemently homophobic, just as European cultures used to be (and even today you don't have to go far in the West to find someone who is offended by homosexuality).

At the end of the day, it is up to each sovereign nation to decide their own laws and for their citizens to duly abide by them.

Think about how do you react when Muslim countries denounce the Westerns for drinking alcohol, for allowing their womenfolk to go with their heads uncovered, for allowing girls to be educated"they are trying to impose their cultural norms on us - which is wrong, but by the same token, we must allow people in other countries follow their own traditions.

No. When the traditions violate rights, we have every right to condemn them for it.

I tend to agree, but you do understand that this means you are taking a moral high ground and implying that your culture is superior to theirs. I don't have a problem in saying that, but I ask if you do?
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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11/16/2012 9:17:25 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/15/2012 3:38:50 AM, FREEDO wrote:
It escapes my understanding how there can be so much hate against such a harmless group of people.

Ugandan speaker, Rebecca Kadaga, is declaring that the "Kill the Gays" bill, first introduced in 2009, is likely to become law by the end of 2012.

For those unfamiliar with it:
Uganda's Anti-Homosexuality Bill (often called the "Kill the Gays bill" in the media) is a legislative proposal that would broaden the criminalisation of same-sex relations in Uganda by dividing homosexual behavior into two categories: "aggravated homosexuality", in which an "offender" would receive the death penalty, or "the offence of homosexuality" in which an offender would receive life imprisonment. "Aggravated homosexuality" is defined to include homosexual acts committed by a person who is HIV-positive, is a parent or authority figure, or who administers intoxicating substances, homosexual acts committed on minors or people with disabilities, and repeat offenders. "The offence of homosexuality" is defined to include same-sex sexual acts, involvement in a same-sex marriage, or an attempt to commit aggravated homosexuality. It further includes provisions for Ugandans who engage in same-sex relations outside of Uganda, asserting that they may be extradited for punishment back to Uganda, and includes penalties for individuals, companies, media organisations, or non-governmental organisations that know of gay people or support LGBT rights.
More reading:http://en.wikipedia.org...

Particularly absurd about this bill is that it criminalizes being HIV positive. Oh, the unimaginable ignorance it takes for humanity to institute something like this.

The "aggravated homosexuality" sounds like typical sex laws in the Western world. They aren't criminalizing being HIV-positive, they're applying it to people who have sex when HIV-positive. The same thing happens here.

I do agree that sodomy laws are immoral. But f*cking life in prison?
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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11/17/2012 12:26:34 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/15/2012 1:31:58 PM, innomen wrote:
you are.. implying that your culture is superior to theirs. I don't have a problem in saying that, but I ask if you do?

Of course she does!

needs to be rectified by realizing that there is no "high ground" or absolute morality...
but to become fully comfortable with asserting yours anyway! :)

now, mine may be better thought out... more carefully weighed, and with a perspective that better accounts for apparent the nature of things...

but, at bottom the force of the oughts come from my particular cares... and that's not a legit source for a claimed Universal, absolute, morality.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
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11/17/2012 12:38:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/17/2012 12:26:34 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
but, at bottom the force of the oughts come from my particular cares... and that's not a legit source for a claimed Universal, absolute, morality.

Though, people are generally pretty similar...

So, some of my Cares may give my "ought" statements force to Other people as well..

And, given a set of similar cares, if you get people to see the world (factually) in the same light... you should be able to get them to find a lot of Moral common-ground too.

like, Not killing gay people, maybe...

Granted, Religion makes the "facts" part go haywire... As Well as tosses the Look into your common humanity appeal nil, as the whole idea of morality for many religious people is "Ignore Your cares, Do what GOD wants"
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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11/17/2012 7:09:42 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/15/2012 9:20:26 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
Despite RoyalP's comments about European colonial influence, most African and Asian cultures have always been vehemently homophobic, just as European cultures used to be (and even today you don't have to go far in the West to find someone who is offended by homosexuality).

At the end of the day, it is up to each sovereign nation to decide their own laws and for their citizens to duly abide by them.

What is this I don't even.....

Think about how do you react when Muslim countries denounce the Westerns for drinking alcohol, for allowing their womenfolk to go with their heads uncovered, for allowing girls to be educated"they are trying to impose their cultural norms on us - which is wrong, but by the same token, we must allow people in other countries follow their own traditions.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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11/17/2012 5:58:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/15/2012 1:31:58 PM, innomen wrote:
At 11/15/2012 10:17:31 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/15/2012 9:20:26 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
Despite RoyalP's comments about European colonial influence, most African and Asian cultures have always been vehemently homophobic, just as European cultures used to be (and even today you don't have to go far in the West to find someone who is offended by homosexuality).

At the end of the day, it is up to each sovereign nation to decide their own laws and for their citizens to duly abide by them.

Think about how do you react when Muslim countries denounce the Westerns for drinking alcohol, for allowing their womenfolk to go with their heads uncovered, for allowing girls to be educated"they are trying to impose their cultural norms on us - which is wrong, but by the same token, we must allow people in other countries follow their own traditions.

No. When the traditions violate rights, we have every right to condemn them for it.

I tend to agree, but you do understand that this means you are taking a moral high ground and implying that your culture is superior to theirs. I don't have a problem in saying that, but I ask if you do?

To a degree. I don't believe in cultural relativism; I favor universalism to an extent. I have problem with depriving people of their rights, but I don't think Christianity is superior to Islam.
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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11/18/2012 12:05:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/15/2012 5:26:33 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
We discussed this yesterday in my Africa class yesterday, actually. The problem is that a lot of major Christian groups from the US are manipulating the people into being anti-gay by telling them that homosexuality is "un-African" and that "liberals" in the West want to impose homosexuality on Africa so that they can take it over again (an interesting thing to note is that Anti-gay bills were first introduced by the COLONIAL governments). We are exporting the culture war there because the hardcore Christians are losing it here.

...yeah I'm gonna need a source for this. There's no incentive for them to do so, people only care about the culture war if its their culture being threatened. Moreover there are no "major" christian groups in the US that advocates the execution of gays, so this law isn't their brainchild. Even if it was this in no way excuses the Ugandans if they pass the bill---if someone tells me "kill homosexuals" and I do so its just as immoral as it wouldve been without their influence....
DDO Vice President

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"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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11/18/2012 6:49:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/18/2012 12:05:38 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/15/2012 5:26:33 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
We discussed this yesterday in my Africa class yesterday, actually. The problem is that a lot of major Christian groups from the US are manipulating the people into being anti-gay by telling them that homosexuality is "un-African" and that "liberals" in the West want to impose homosexuality on Africa so that they can take it over again (an interesting thing to note is that Anti-gay bills were first introduced by the COLONIAL governments). We are exporting the culture war there because the hardcore Christians are losing it here.

...yeah I'm gonna need a source for this.
Absolutely.
http://prospect.org...

You can read the whole article, but here's the key section:

The best-known example of these efforts is Uganda"s Anti-Homosexuality Bill. Introduced in the fall of 2009, the bill imposed the death penalty for certain homosexual acts and criminalized human-rights advocacy on behalf of sexual minorities. It grew directly out of a well-attended conference, the "Seminar on Exposing the Truth behind Homosexuality and the Homosexual Agenda," that took place in the capital, Kampala, in March. To put on the conference, the Uganda-based Family Life Network, which is supported by U.S. Christian-right groups, teamed with two leading anti-gay activists from the States, Holocaust revisionist Scott Lively and Dan Schmierer of the ex-gay group Exodus International. The seminar attracted high-profile religious leaders, parliamentarians, police officers, teachers, and concerned parents. I videotaped the proceedings.
There's no incentive for them to do so, people only care about the culture war if its their culture being threatened.
This isn't true for three reasons. First, the world is becoming increasingly globalized and connected, and both sides recognize that the need allies in other nations if they want to sustain their efforts at home. The world isn't as isolated as it previously was. Second, Christianity has always been a missionary religion that has advocated spreading culture to other nations and peoples. Moreover, during the colonial era, these types of culture bills were instituted by the governments. Third, we already know that anti-gay Christian groups are backing the Ugandan government, which commits gross violations of human rights, because of its friendliness towards Christianity. They have been linked to Invisible Children, which selectively focuses on atrocities committed by Kony. The Ugandan army does exactly the same thing that he does, but they don't attack it because it is open to their influence.

http://www.towleroad.com...
Moreover there are no "major" christian groups in the US that advocates the execution of gays, so this law isn't their brainchild.
See the link. They only "disavowed" it after intense criticism through the media, but they have not used their influence to block it.
Even if it was this in no way excuses the Ugandans if they pass the bill---if someone tells me "kill homosexuals" and I do so its just as immoral as it wouldve been without their influence....
You're absolutely right, and I never meant to imply that the Ugandans are also not at fault. I was simply pointing out that this isn't just a product of "bad Ugandan culture" and that the West should enlighten them. Elements of the West are directly involved in this campaign.
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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11/18/2012 11:08:05 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/18/2012 6:49:23 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/18/2012 12:05:38 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/15/2012 5:26:33 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
We discussed this yesterday in my Africa class yesterday, actually. The problem is that a lot of major Christian groups from the US are manipulating the people into being anti-gay by telling them that homosexuality is "un-African" and that "liberals" in the West want to impose homosexuality on Africa so that they can take it over again (an interesting thing to note is that Anti-gay bills were first introduced by the COLONIAL governments). We are exporting the culture war there because the hardcore Christians are losing it here.

...yeah I'm gonna need a source for this.
Absolutely.
http://prospect.org...

You can read the whole article, but here's the key section:

The best-known example of these efforts is Uganda"s Anti-Homosexuality Bill. Introduced in the fall of 2009, the bill imposed the death penalty for certain homosexual acts and criminalized human-rights advocacy on behalf of sexual minorities. It grew directly out of a well-attended conference, the "Seminar on Exposing the Truth behind Homosexuality and the Homosexual Agenda," that took place in the capital, Kampala, in March. To put on the conference, the Uganda-based Family Life Network, which is supported by U.S. Christian-right groups, teamed with two leading anti-gay activists from the States, Holocaust revisionist Scott Lively and Dan Schmierer of the ex-gay group Exodus International. The seminar attracted high-profile religious leaders, parliamentarians, police officers, teachers, and concerned parents. I videotaped the proceedings.
There's no incentive for them to do so, people only care about the culture war if its their culture being threatened.
This isn't true for three reasons. First, the world is becoming increasingly globalized and connected, and both sides recognize that the need allies in other nations if they want to sustain their efforts at home. The world isn't as isolated as it previously was. Second, Christianity has always been a missionary religion that has advocated spreading culture to other nations and peoples. Moreover, during the colonial era, these types of culture bills were instituted by the governments. Third, we already know that anti-gay Christian groups are backing the Ugandan government, which commits gross violations of human rights, because of its friendliness towards Christianity. They have been linked to Invisible Children, which selectively focuses on atrocities committed by Kony. The Ugandan army does exactly the same thing that he does, but they don't attack it because it is open to their influence.

http://www.towleroad.com...
Moreover there are no "major" christian groups in the US that advocates the execution of gays, so this law isn't their brainchild.
See the link. They only "disavowed" it after intense criticism through the media, but they have not used their influence to block it.
Even if it was this in no way excuses the Ugandans if they pass the bill---if someone tells me "kill homosexuals" and I do so its just as immoral as it wouldve been without their influence....
You're absolutely right, and I never meant to imply that the Ugandans are also not at fault. I was simply pointing out that this isn't just a product of "bad Ugandan culture" and that the West should enlighten them. Elements of the West are directly involved in this campaign.

Thanks. It sucks that these people claim to be christians...:(
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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11/18/2012 11:11:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/18/2012 11:08:05 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/18/2012 6:49:23 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/18/2012 12:05:38 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/15/2012 5:26:33 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
We discussed this yesterday in my Africa class yesterday, actually. The problem is that a lot of major Christian groups from the US are manipulating the people into being anti-gay by telling them that homosexuality is "un-African" and that "liberals" in the West want to impose homosexuality on Africa so that they can take it over again (an interesting thing to note is that Anti-gay bills were first introduced by the COLONIAL governments). We are exporting the culture war there because the hardcore Christians are losing it here.

...yeah I'm gonna need a source for this.
Absolutely.
http://prospect.org...

You can read the whole article, but here's the key section:

The best-known example of these efforts is Uganda"s Anti-Homosexuality Bill. Introduced in the fall of 2009, the bill imposed the death penalty for certain homosexual acts and criminalized human-rights advocacy on behalf of sexual minorities. It grew directly out of a well-attended conference, the "Seminar on Exposing the Truth behind Homosexuality and the Homosexual Agenda," that took place in the capital, Kampala, in March. To put on the conference, the Uganda-based Family Life Network, which is supported by U.S. Christian-right groups, teamed with two leading anti-gay activists from the States, Holocaust revisionist Scott Lively and Dan Schmierer of the ex-gay group Exodus International. The seminar attracted high-profile religious leaders, parliamentarians, police officers, teachers, and concerned parents. I videotaped the proceedings.
There's no incentive for them to do so, people only care about the culture war if its their culture being threatened.
This isn't true for three reasons. First, the world is becoming increasingly globalized and connected, and both sides recognize that the need allies in other nations if they want to sustain their efforts at home. The world isn't as isolated as it previously was. Second, Christianity has always been a missionary religion that has advocated spreading culture to other nations and peoples. Moreover, during the colonial era, these types of culture bills were instituted by the governments. Third, we already know that anti-gay Christian groups are backing the Ugandan government, which commits gross violations of human rights, because of its friendliness towards Christianity. They have been linked to Invisible Children, which selectively focuses on atrocities committed by Kony. The Ugandan army does exactly the same thing that he does, but they don't attack it because it is open to their influence.

http://www.towleroad.com...
Moreover there are no "major" christian groups in the US that advocates the execution of gays, so this law isn't their brainchild.
See the link. They only "disavowed" it after intense criticism through the media, but they have not used their influence to block it.
Even if it was this in no way excuses the Ugandans if they pass the bill---if someone tells me "kill homosexuals" and I do so its just as immoral as it wouldve been without their influence....
You're absolutely right, and I never meant to imply that the Ugandans are also not at fault. I was simply pointing out that this isn't just a product of "bad Ugandan culture" and that the West should enlighten them. Elements of the West are directly involved in this campaign.

Thanks. It sucks that these people claim to be christians...:(

I think a lot of "Christians" have moved away from the original roots of Christianity (like pre-Nicea). It's really sad, because there are so many good things in the Christian doctrine . . .
thett3
Posts: 14,334
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11/18/2012 11:37:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/18/2012 11:11:50 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/18/2012 11:08:05 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/18/2012 6:49:23 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/18/2012 12:05:38 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 11/15/2012 5:26:33 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
We discussed this yesterday in my Africa class yesterday, actually. The problem is that a lot of major Christian groups from the US are manipulating the people into being anti-gay by telling them that homosexuality is "un-African" and that "liberals" in the West want to impose homosexuality on Africa so that they can take it over again (an interesting thing to note is that Anti-gay bills were first introduced by the COLONIAL governments). We are exporting the culture war there because the hardcore Christians are losing it here.

...yeah I'm gonna need a source for this.
Absolutely.
http://prospect.org...

You can read the whole article, but here's the key section:

The best-known example of these efforts is Uganda"s Anti-Homosexuality Bill. Introduced in the fall of 2009, the bill imposed the death penalty for certain homosexual acts and criminalized human-rights advocacy on behalf of sexual minorities. It grew directly out of a well-attended conference, the "Seminar on Exposing the Truth behind Homosexuality and the Homosexual Agenda," that took place in the capital, Kampala, in March. To put on the conference, the Uganda-based Family Life Network, which is supported by U.S. Christian-right groups, teamed with two leading anti-gay activists from the States, Holocaust revisionist Scott Lively and Dan Schmierer of the ex-gay group Exodus International. The seminar attracted high-profile religious leaders, parliamentarians, police officers, teachers, and concerned parents. I videotaped the proceedings.
There's no incentive for them to do so, people only care about the culture war if its their culture being threatened.
This isn't true for three reasons. First, the world is becoming increasingly globalized and connected, and both sides recognize that the need allies in other nations if they want to sustain their efforts at home. The world isn't as isolated as it previously was. Second, Christianity has always been a missionary religion that has advocated spreading culture to other nations and peoples. Moreover, during the colonial era, these types of culture bills were instituted by the governments. Third, we already know that anti-gay Christian groups are backing the Ugandan government, which commits gross violations of human rights, because of its friendliness towards Christianity. They have been linked to Invisible Children, which selectively focuses on atrocities committed by Kony. The Ugandan army does exactly the same thing that he does, but they don't attack it because it is open to their influence.

http://www.towleroad.com...
Moreover there are no "major" christian groups in the US that advocates the execution of gays, so this law isn't their brainchild.
See the link. They only "disavowed" it after intense criticism through the media, but they have not used their influence to block it.
Even if it was this in no way excuses the Ugandans if they pass the bill---if someone tells me "kill homosexuals" and I do so its just as immoral as it wouldve been without their influence....
You're absolutely right, and I never meant to imply that the Ugandans are also not at fault. I was simply pointing out that this isn't just a product of "bad Ugandan culture" and that the West should enlighten them. Elements of the West are directly involved in this campaign.

Thanks. It sucks that these people claim to be christians...:(

I think a lot of "Christians" have moved away from the original roots of Christianity (like pre-Nicea). It's really sad, because there are so many good things in the Christian doctrine . . .

lol I initially didnt belive you although that was just me letting emotions get in the way of reason I think. I mean just look at the westboro baptist church it makes sense that some of these people would go to other countries to spread their hate
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right