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Hamas targets Jerusalem

lewis20
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11/16/2012 10:09:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Apparently Hamas just took credit for a rocket lunched at Jerusalem. first time the city has been targeted since the 70s

http://m.bbc.co.uk...
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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11/16/2012 10:59:48 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 10:09:48 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Apparently Hamas just took credit for a rocket lunched at Jerusalem. first time the city has been targeted since the 70s

http://m.bbc.co.uk...

Well, considering that the Israelis killed a bunch of civilians yesterday, what did they expect?

I am not saying that what Hamas did was ok, but Israel is deliberately starting problems.
slo1
Posts: 4,353
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11/16/2012 11:24:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
they must be getting better aim and not worried about hitting East Jerusalem.

boots on the ground into Gaza looks like a real possibility, but Israel has no stomach for occupying it.
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lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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11/16/2012 12:29:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 10:59:48 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 10:09:48 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Apparently Hamas just took credit for a rocket lunched at Jerusalem. first time the city has been targeted since the 70s

http://m.bbc.co.uk...

Well, considering that the Israelis killed a bunch of civilians yesterday, what did they expect?

I am not saying that what Hamas did was ok, but Israel is deliberately starting problems.

Point kind of went over your head didn't it? No one has targeted Jerusalem in decades.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
truthseeker613
Posts: 464
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11/16/2012 2:42:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 10:59:48 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 10:09:48 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Apparently Hamas just took credit for a rocket lunched at Jerusalem. first time the city has been targeted since the 70s

http://m.bbc.co.uk...

Well, considering that the Israelis killed a bunch of civilians yesterday, what did they expect?

I am not saying that what Hamas did was ok, but Israel is deliberately starting problems.

A) Hamas did start this. Over the past year they've sent over 750 rockets into Israel.
Israel very neatly killed a top hamas leader, Hamas retaliated, & thats how the whole thing started.

B)Israel is targeting terorists and inevidably hitting some innocent people, because those cowards use those people as human shields.

C)N.Y. Times - Justification for targetted asasonation / killings:
http://www.nytimes.com...

D) Israel has the right to protect itself:

http://www.bloomberg.com...

http://www.ynetnews.com...

http://www.news.com.au...

http://www.thenews.pl...
http://www.nydailynews.com...

royalpaladin: I'd rather support people who kill spies than a nation that organizes assassination squads (Kidon) to illegally enter into other nations and kill anybody who is not a Zionist. Who knows when they'll kill me for the crime of not supporting Israel?

Koopin: LOL! I just imagine Royal sitting in here apartment at night, when suddenly she hears a man outside speaking Hebrew as sh
Deathbeforedishonour
Posts: 1,058
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11/16/2012 2:58:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 12:39:27 PM, MilitaryAtheist wrote:
I hope they start World War 3 when I am in the Marines.

Same here! I am considering enlisting in a foreign army if I have to in order to see some action. lol If if my country is going to play pacifist I am sure Russia or Israel will give me something to do.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ~ John 1:1

Matthew 10:22- "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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11/16/2012 3:01:08 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 12:29:20 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 11/16/2012 10:59:48 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 10:09:48 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Apparently Hamas just took credit for a rocket lunched at Jerusalem. first time the city has been targeted since the 70s

http://m.bbc.co.uk...

Well, considering that the Israelis killed a bunch of civilians yesterday, what did they expect?

I am not saying that what Hamas did was ok, but Israel is deliberately starting problems.

Point kind of went over your head didn't it? No one has targeted Jerusalem in decades.

Um, no, the point didn't go over my head. Hostilities have magnified, and the reason is the Israeli airstrikes that killed a hefty number of civilians yesterday.
Deathbeforedishonour
Posts: 1,058
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11/16/2012 3:04:06 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 3:01:08 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 12:29:20 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 11/16/2012 10:59:48 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 10:09:48 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Apparently Hamas just took credit for a rocket lunched at Jerusalem. first time the city has been targeted since the 70s

http://m.bbc.co.uk...

Well, considering that the Israelis killed a bunch of civilians yesterday, what did they expect?

I am not saying that what Hamas did was ok, but Israel is deliberately starting problems.

Point kind of went over your head didn't it? No one has targeted Jerusalem in decades.

Um, no, the point didn't go over my head. Hostilities have magnified, and the reason is the Israeli airstrikes that killed a hefty number of civilians yesterday.

700 missiles/rockets struck Israel in this year. They had a reason to kill that leader before he caused even more deaths then just a few civilians.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ~ John 1:1

Matthew 10:22- "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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11/16/2012 3:06:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 2:42:29 PM, truthseeker613 wrote:
At 11/16/2012 10:59:48 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 10:09:48 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Apparently Hamas just took credit for a rocket lunched at Jerusalem. first time the city has been targeted since the 70s

http://m.bbc.co.uk...

Well, considering that the Israelis killed a bunch of civilians yesterday, what did they expect?

I am not saying that what Hamas did was ok, but Israel is deliberately starting problems.

A) Hamas did start this. Over the past year they've sent over 750 rockets into Israel.
Israel started it by usurping Palestinian territory. Israel has a policy of displacement, and launching air strikes against civilians is only going to increase hostilities.
Israel very neatly killed a top hamas leader, Hamas retaliated, & thats how the whole thing started.


B)Israel is targeting terorists and inevidably hitting some innocent people, because those cowards use those people as human shields.

LOL, no, because they launch bombs at civilians. It's not an accident.

I see. When Hamas attacks civilians, it's terrorism but when the Israelis attacks civilians, it's not only justified, but it's the fault of Hamas. Israel can do no wrong.
C)N.Y. Times - Justification for targetted asasonation / killings:
http://www.nytimes.com...

LOL, I don't care if you post a NYT article that supports targeted killing. Make an argument. I'm not even going to look at the article.
D) Israel has the right to protect itself:

http://www.bloomberg.com...

I don't care what Harper says. Israel doesn't have the right to launch pre-emptive strikes; this is why problems happen, and Israel is a colonial state anyways. The British didn't have a right to defend themselves in India, and the French didn't have the right to defend themselves in Algeria.
http://www.ynetnews.com...

http://www.news.com.au...

http://www.thenews.pl...

You wasted your time by posting a bunch of appeal to authorities articles. I don't care what government officials say. I am an Anarchist and have no respect for governments, especially if they fund the sex slave trade as our government does.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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11/16/2012 3:08:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 3:04:06 PM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 11/16/2012 3:01:08 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 12:29:20 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 11/16/2012 10:59:48 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 10:09:48 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Apparently Hamas just took credit for a rocket lunched at Jerusalem. first time the city has been targeted since the 70s

http://m.bbc.co.uk...

Well, considering that the Israelis killed a bunch of civilians yesterday, what did they expect?

I am not saying that what Hamas did was ok, but Israel is deliberately starting problems.

Point kind of went over your head didn't it? No one has targeted Jerusalem in decades.

Um, no, the point didn't go over my head. Hostilities have magnified, and the reason is the Israeli airstrikes that killed a hefty number of civilians yesterday.

700 missiles/rockets struck Israel in this year. They had a reason to kill that leader before he caused even more deaths then just a few civilians.

Has the death of that leader stopped hostilities or have they magnified?

I love the fact that you care nothing for the innocent Palestinians who were killed. They're just a few civilians.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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11/16/2012 3:09:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 3:08:07 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 3:04:06 PM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 11/16/2012 3:01:08 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 12:29:20 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 11/16/2012 10:59:48 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 10:09:48 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Apparently Hamas just took credit for a rocket lunched at Jerusalem. first time the city has been targeted since the 70s

http://m.bbc.co.uk...

Well, considering that the Israelis killed a bunch of civilians yesterday, what did they expect?

I am not saying that what Hamas did was ok, but Israel is deliberately starting problems.

Point kind of went over your head didn't it? No one has targeted Jerusalem in decades.

Um, no, the point didn't go over my head. Hostilities have magnified, and the reason is the Israeli airstrikes that killed a hefty number of civilians yesterday.

700 missiles/rockets struck Israel in this year. They had a reason to kill that leader before he caused even more deaths then just a few civilians.

Has the death of that leader stopped hostilities or have they magnified?

I love the fact that you care nothing for the innocent Palestinians who were killed. They're just a few civilians.

Now just swap Palestinians with Iraeli's....
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

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Deathbeforedishonour
Posts: 1,058
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11/16/2012 3:14:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 3:08:07 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 3:04:06 PM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 11/16/2012 3:01:08 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 12:29:20 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 11/16/2012 10:59:48 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 10:09:48 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Apparently Hamas just took credit for a rocket lunched at Jerusalem. first time the city has been targeted since the 70s

http://m.bbc.co.uk...

Well, considering that the Israelis killed a bunch of civilians yesterday, what did they expect?

I am not saying that what Hamas did was ok, but Israel is deliberately starting problems.

Point kind of went over your head didn't it? No one has targeted Jerusalem in decades.

Um, no, the point didn't go over my head. Hostilities have magnified, and the reason is the Israeli airstrikes that killed a hefty number of civilians yesterday.

700 missiles/rockets struck Israel in this year. They had a reason to kill that leader before he caused even more deaths then just a few civilians.

Has the death of that leader stopped hostilities or have they magnified?

I love the fact that you care nothing for the innocent Palestinians who were killed. They're just a few civilians.

Palestinians don't care about innocent civilians either. It's war, it is NOT supposed to be pretty, even the innocent die.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." ~ John 1:1

Matthew 10:22- "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved."
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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11/16/2012 3:18:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 3:09:19 PM, OberHerr wrote:
At 11/16/2012 3:08:07 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 3:04:06 PM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 11/16/2012 3:01:08 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 12:29:20 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 11/16/2012 10:59:48 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 10:09:48 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Apparently Hamas just took credit for a rocket lunched at Jerusalem. first time the city has been targeted since the 70s

http://m.bbc.co.uk...

Well, considering that the Israelis killed a bunch of civilians yesterday, what did they expect?

I am not saying that what Hamas did was ok, but Israel is deliberately starting problems.

Point kind of went over your head didn't it? No one has targeted Jerusalem in decades.

Um, no, the point didn't go over my head. Hostilities have magnified, and the reason is the Israeli airstrikes that killed a hefty number of civilians yesterday.

700 missiles/rockets struck Israel in this year. They had a reason to kill that leader before he caused even more deaths then just a few civilians.

Has the death of that leader stopped hostilities or have they magnified?

I love the fact that you care nothing for the innocent Palestinians who were killed. They're just a few civilians.

Now just swap Palestinians with Iraeli's....

I do care about the Israelis who die, but I care more about the Palestinians because their land is being invaded.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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11/16/2012 3:19:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 3:14:07 PM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 11/16/2012 3:08:07 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 3:04:06 PM, Deathbeforedishonour wrote:
At 11/16/2012 3:01:08 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 12:29:20 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 11/16/2012 10:59:48 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 10:09:48 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Apparently Hamas just took credit for a rocket lunched at Jerusalem. first time the city has been targeted since the 70s

http://m.bbc.co.uk...

Well, considering that the Israelis killed a bunch of civilians yesterday, what did they expect?

I am not saying that what Hamas did was ok, but Israel is deliberately starting problems.

Point kind of went over your head didn't it? No one has targeted Jerusalem in decades.

Um, no, the point didn't go over my head. Hostilities have magnified, and the reason is the Israeli airstrikes that killed a hefty number of civilians yesterday.

700 missiles/rockets struck Israel in this year. They had a reason to kill that leader before he caused even more deaths then just a few civilians.

Has the death of that leader stopped hostilities or have they magnified?

I love the fact that you care nothing for the innocent Palestinians who were killed. They're just a few civilians.

Palestinians don't care about innocent civilians either. It's war, it is NOT supposed to be pretty, even the innocent die.

Why do innocent people have to die? The retarded leaders are starting all of the problems; have them kill each other and let everybody else live in peace.
Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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11/16/2012 3:21:13 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Both people are in the wrong. As a Christian people expect me to love every single move Israel does, but I refuse.

Also, Hamas is gonna get plowed if they try anything obviously. This is most likely just a flex of muscles.
kfc
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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11/16/2012 3:27:03 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 3:21:13 PM, Koopin wrote:
Both people are in the wrong. As a Christian people expect me to love every single move Israel does, but I refuse.

Zizek makes a good point about how the Zionists have teamed up with openly Anti-Semitic Christian fundamentalists but they now have the audacity to call any non-Zionist Jews "self-hating". LOLOL, who's really self-hating, the people who collaborate with Anti-Semites or the regular people?

The Breivik shootings in Norway featured a Zionist Nazi who hated Jews but who favored Israel as a means of flushing out the Jews from Europe and putting them between the Caucasians and the Arabs.
jat93
Posts: 1,440
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11/16/2012 3:52:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Hamas is an elected government with a military wing, also trying to provide goods and services to its constituents like any government, but when it exercises what it calls its right to self defense, as any government would do, it is deemed illegitimate, and labeled terrorism. The Israeli government is also an elected government with a military wing - which has killed and harmed more innocent men, women, and children under the name of defending security than Hamas has ever dreamed of harming, and is so strong that Hamas' military wing might as well not even be a military in comparison - but when it exercises what it calls its right to self defense, it is labelled not terrorism but counter-terrorism. My question is why one is terrorism and the other is counter-terrorism and why both governments do not have the right to defend themselves as they see fit. Either they both do or neither do.

Also, it must be said that Hamas hasn't been illegally occupying what the entire world except for Israel considers Israeli land for over 40 years, but Israel has done just this with Palestinian land - and they have generally ruled over the territories with an iron first. Those living in the occupied territories are living without any real human rights, in virtual open prisons, with every single facet of life controlled by the occupiers - checkpoints, segregated roads, control over natural resources, settler construction on illegally occupied land, bulldozing of houses and farms to make way for such construction, control over every single facet of the entire Palestinian economy, and so on.

I saw a protester holding a photo that says the following: "You take my water, burn my olive trees, destroy my house, take my job, steal my land, imprison my father, kill my mother, bomb my country, starve us all, humiliate us all, BUT I am to blame - I shot a rocket back." There is embellishment here, purposely I think, but it still makes a legitimate and powerful point.

I've noticed that with most of my Zionist friends (I have many), when Hamas targets civilian populations in the name of self defense, that is taken as evidence that they are a militant terrorist organization that must be wiped out; when Israel targets civilian populations in the name of self defense, that is taken as evidence that the Israeli government will do anything to protect its citizens security. Hamas never seems to have a right to self defense, and Israel never seems to NOT have a right to self defense.

All I ask is that we be consistent.
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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11/16/2012 4:26:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 3:01:08 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 12:29:20 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 11/16/2012 10:59:48 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 10:09:48 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Apparently Hamas just took credit for a rocket lunched at Jerusalem. first time the city has been targeted since the 70s

http://m.bbc.co.uk...

Well, considering that the Israelis killed a bunch of civilians yesterday, what did they expect?

I am not saying that what Hamas did was ok, but Israel is deliberately starting problems.

Point kind of went over your head didn't it? No one has targeted Jerusalem in decades.

Um, no, the point didn't go over my head. Hostilities have magnified, and the reason is the Israeli airstrikes that killed a hefty number of civilians yesterday.

Oh, I'm sorry. Clearly an organization that uses children as bullet-stoppers fights because Israel kills civilians.

Lol. You can't simply point to civilian causalities and declare who was wrong. I've pointed this out and explained this before.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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11/16/2012 4:33:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 3:52:43 PM, jat93 wrote:
Hamas is an elected government with a military wing, also trying to provide goods and services to its constituents like any government, but when it exercises what it calls its right to self defense, as any government would do, it is deemed illegitimate, and labeled terrorism. The Israeli government is also an elected government with a military wing - which has killed and harmed more innocent men, women, and children under the name of defending security than Hamas has ever dreamed of harming, and is so strong that Hamas' military wing might as well not even be a military in comparison - but when it exercises what it calls its right to self defense, it is labelled not terrorism but counter-terrorism. My question is why one is terrorism and the other is counter-terrorism and why both governments do not have the right to defend themselves as they see fit. Either they both do or neither do.

Also, it must be said that Hamas hasn't been illegally occupying what the entire world except for Israel considers Israeli land for over 40 years, but Israel has done just this with Palestinian land - and they have generally ruled over the territories with an iron first. Those living in the occupied territories are living without any real human rights, in virtual open prisons, with every single facet of life controlled by the occupiers - checkpoints, segregated roads, control over natural resources, settler construction on illegally occupied land, bulldozing of houses and farms to make way for such construction, control over every single facet of the entire Palestinian economy, and so on.

I saw a protester holding a photo that says the following: "You take my water, burn my olive trees, destroy my house, take my job, steal my land, imprison my father, kill my mother, bomb my country, starve us all, humiliate us all, BUT I am to blame - I shot a rocket back." There is embellishment here, purposely I think, but it still makes a legitimate and powerful point.

I've noticed that with most of my Zionist friends (I have many), when Hamas targets civilian populations in the name of self defense, that is taken as evidence that they are a militant terrorist organization that must be wiped out; when Israel targets civilian populations in the name of self defense, that is taken as evidence that the Israeli government will do anything to protect its citizens security. Hamas never seems to have a right to self defense, and Israel never seems to NOT have a right to self defense.

All I ask is that we be consistent.

that's a great analysis.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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11/16/2012 4:40:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 3:52:43 PM, jat93 wrote:
Hamas is an elected government with a military wing, also trying to provide goods and services to its constituents like any government, but when it exercises what it calls its right to self defense, as any government would do, it is deemed illegitimate, and labeled terrorism. The Israeli government is also an elected government with a military wing - which has killed and harmed more innocent men, women, and children under the name of defending security than Hamas has ever dreamed of harming, and is so strong that Hamas' military wing might as well not even be a military in comparison - but when it exercises what it calls its right to self defense, it is labelled not terrorism but counter-terrorism. My question is why one is terrorism and the other is counter-terrorism and why both governments do not have the right to defend themselves as they see fit. Either they both do or neither do.

Also, it must be said that Hamas hasn't been illegally occupying what the entire world except for Israel considers Israeli land for over 40 years, but Israel has done just this with Palestinian land - and they have generally ruled over the territories with an iron first. Those living in the occupied territories are living without any real human rights, in virtual open prisons, with every single facet of life controlled by the occupiers - checkpoints, segregated roads, control over natural resources, settler construction on illegally occupied land, bulldozing of houses and farms to make way for such construction, control over every single facet of the entire Palestinian economy, and so on.

I saw a protester holding a photo that says the following: "You take my water, burn my olive trees, destroy my house, take my job, steal my land, imprison my father, kill my mother, bomb my country, starve us all, humiliate us all, BUT I am to blame - I shot a rocket back." There is embellishment here, purposely I think, but it still makes a legitimate and powerful point.

I've noticed that with most of my Zionist friends (I have many), when Hamas targets civilian populations in the name of self defense, that is taken as evidence that they are a militant terrorist organization that must be wiped out; when Israel targets civilian populations in the name of self defense, that is taken as evidence that the Israeli government will do anything to protect its citizens security. Hamas never seems to have a right to self defense, and Israel never seems to NOT have a right to self defense.

All I ask is that we be consistent.

And when Israel was having peace talks and trying to revive the Palestinian economy who was it that tried to sabotage them? Who turned the Gaza strip into a police state? (I'm pretty sure that it would be doing fine right now if not for Hamas). They've killed about 400 Israelis and wounded about 2000 (only from 2000 to 2004)- now imagine how much higher it would be if no military action was taken. I'm not saying that Israel has been innocent, but let's not be delusional here.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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11/16/2012 4:43:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 3:27:03 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 3:21:13 PM, Koopin wrote:
Both people are in the wrong. As a Christian people expect me to love every single move Israel does, but I refuse.

Zizek makes a good point about how the Zionists have teamed up with openly Anti-Semitic Christian fundamentalists but they now have the audacity to call any non-Zionist Jews "self-hating". LOLOL, who's really self-hating, the people who collaborate with Anti-Semites or the regular people?

The Breivik shootings in Norway featured a Zionist Nazi who hated Jews but who favored Israel as a means of flushing out the Jews from Europe and putting them between the Caucasians and the Arabs.

Um, what? Zionism is the belief that the Jews have a right to national sovereignty. It's quite obvious that what you're trying to do is paint "Zionism" as something that it isn't and dissociate it with Judaism (so that you won't be called anti-Semitic).
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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11/16/2012 4:46:01 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 4:40:56 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 11/16/2012 3:52:43 PM, jat93 wrote:
Hamas is an elected government with a military wing, also trying to provide goods and services to its constituents like any government, but when it exercises what it calls its right to self defense, as any government would do, it is deemed illegitimate, and labeled terrorism. The Israeli government is also an elected government with a military wing - which has killed and harmed more innocent men, women, and children under the name of defending security than Hamas has ever dreamed of harming, and is so strong that Hamas' military wing might as well not even be a military in comparison - but when it exercises what it calls its right to self defense, it is labelled not terrorism but counter-terrorism. My question is why one is terrorism and the other is counter-terrorism and why both governments do not have the right to defend themselves as they see fit. Either they both do or neither do.

Also, it must be said that Hamas hasn't been illegally occupying what the entire world except for Israel considers Israeli land for over 40 years, but Israel has done just this with Palestinian land - and they have generally ruled over the territories with an iron first. Those living in the occupied territories are living without any real human rights, in virtual open prisons, with every single facet of life controlled by the occupiers - checkpoints, segregated roads, control over natural resources, settler construction on illegally occupied land, bulldozing of houses and farms to make way for such construction, control over every single facet of the entire Palestinian economy, and so on.

I saw a protester holding a photo that says the following: "You take my water, burn my olive trees, destroy my house, take my job, steal my land, imprison my father, kill my mother, bomb my country, starve us all, humiliate us all, BUT I am to blame - I shot a rocket back." There is embellishment here, purposely I think, but it still makes a legitimate and powerful point.

I've noticed that with most of my Zionist friends (I have many), when Hamas targets civilian populations in the name of self defense, that is taken as evidence that they are a militant terrorist organization that must be wiped out; when Israel targets civilian populations in the name of self defense, that is taken as evidence that the Israeli government will do anything to protect its citizens security. Hamas never seems to have a right to self defense, and Israel never seems to NOT have a right to self defense.

All I ask is that we be consistent.

And when Israel was having peace talks and trying to revive the Palestinian economy who was it that tried to sabotage them? Who turned the Gaza strip into a police state? (I'm pretty sure that it would be doing fine right now if not for Hamas). They've killed about 400 Israelis and wounded about 2000 (only from 2000 to 2004)- now imagine how much higher it would be if no military action was taken. I'm not saying that Israel has been innocent, but let's not be delusional here.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Israel pretty well keep the Gaza strip under their thumb?
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

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royalpaladin
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11/16/2012 4:49:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 4:43:43 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 11/16/2012 3:27:03 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 3:21:13 PM, Koopin wrote:
Both people are in the wrong. As a Christian people expect me to love every single move Israel does, but I refuse.

Zizek makes a good point about how the Zionists have teamed up with openly Anti-Semitic Christian fundamentalists but they now have the audacity to call any non-Zionist Jews "self-hating". LOLOL, who's really self-hating, the people who collaborate with Anti-Semites or the regular people?

The Breivik shootings in Norway featured a Zionist Nazi who hated Jews but who favored Israel as a means of flushing out the Jews from Europe and putting them between the Caucasians and the Arabs.

Um, what? Zionism is the belief that the Jews have a right to national sovereignty. It's quite obvious that what you're trying to do is paint "Zionism" as something that it isn't and dissociate it with Judaism (so that you won't be called anti-Semitic).

Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is a form of nationalism of Jews and Jewish culture that supports a Jewish nation state in territory defined as the Land of Israel.[1] Zionism supports Jews upholding their Jewish identity and opposes the assimilation of Jews into other societies.

Zionism is not integral to Judaism. There are non-Zionist Jews.

https://en.wikipedia.org...
MouthWash
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11/16/2012 4:53:31 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 4:49:29 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 4:43:43 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 11/16/2012 3:27:03 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 3:21:13 PM, Koopin wrote:
Both people are in the wrong. As a Christian people expect me to love every single move Israel does, but I refuse.

Zizek makes a good point about how the Zionists have teamed up with openly Anti-Semitic Christian fundamentalists but they now have the audacity to call any non-Zionist Jews "self-hating". LOLOL, who's really self-hating, the people who collaborate with Anti-Semites or the regular people?

The Breivik shootings in Norway featured a Zionist Nazi who hated Jews but who favored Israel as a means of flushing out the Jews from Europe and putting them between the Caucasians and the Arabs.

Um, what? Zionism is the belief that the Jews have a right to national sovereignty. It's quite obvious that what you're trying to do is paint "Zionism" as something that it isn't and dissociate it with Judaism (so that you won't be called anti-Semitic).

Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is a form of nationalism of Jews and Jewish culture that supports a Jewish nation state in territory defined as the Land of Israel.[1] Zionism supports Jews upholding their Jewish identity and opposes the assimilation of Jews into other societies.

Zionism is not integral to Judaism. There are non-Zionist Jews.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

If they can be called "Zionists," then they are certainly not the regular type of Zionists. But it seemed that you were trying to draw parallels between them and Nazis, which is what I would expect from you.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
JaxsonRaine
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11/16/2012 4:53:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 3:01:08 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 12:29:20 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 11/16/2012 10:59:48 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 10:09:48 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Apparently Hamas just took credit for a rocket lunched at Jerusalem. first time the city has been targeted since the 70s

http://m.bbc.co.uk...

Well, considering that the Israelis killed a bunch of civilians yesterday, what did they expect?

I am not saying that what Hamas did was ok, but Israel is deliberately starting problems.

Point kind of went over your head didn't it? No one has targeted Jerusalem in decades.

Um, no, the point didn't go over my head. Hostilities have magnified, and the reason is the Israeli airstrikes that killed a hefty number of civilians yesterday.

What is the reason for the airstrikes?
twocupcakes: 15 = 13
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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11/16/2012 4:56:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 4:46:01 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 11/16/2012 4:40:56 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 11/16/2012 3:52:43 PM, jat93 wrote:
Hamas is an elected government with a military wing, also trying to provide goods and services to its constituents like any government, but when it exercises what it calls its right to self defense, as any government would do, it is deemed illegitimate, and labeled terrorism. The Israeli government is also an elected government with a military wing - which has killed and harmed more innocent men, women, and children under the name of defending security than Hamas has ever dreamed of harming, and is so strong that Hamas' military wing might as well not even be a military in comparison - but when it exercises what it calls its right to self defense, it is labelled not terrorism but counter-terrorism. My question is why one is terrorism and the other is counter-terrorism and why both governments do not have the right to defend themselves as they see fit. Either they both do or neither do.

Also, it must be said that Hamas hasn't been illegally occupying what the entire world except for Israel considers Israeli land for over 40 years, but Israel has done just this with Palestinian land - and they have generally ruled over the territories with an iron first. Those living in the occupied territories are living without any real human rights, in virtual open prisons, with every single facet of life controlled by the occupiers - checkpoints, segregated roads, control over natural resources, settler construction on illegally occupied land, bulldozing of houses and farms to make way for such construction, control over every single facet of the entire Palestinian economy, and so on.

I saw a protester holding a photo that says the following: "You take my water, burn my olive trees, destroy my house, take my job, steal my land, imprison my father, kill my mother, bomb my country, starve us all, humiliate us all, BUT I am to blame - I shot a rocket back." There is embellishment here, purposely I think, but it still makes a legitimate and powerful point.

I've noticed that with most of my Zionist friends (I have many), when Hamas targets civilian populations in the name of self defense, that is taken as evidence that they are a militant terrorist organization that must be wiped out; when Israel targets civilian populations in the name of self defense, that is taken as evidence that the Israeli government will do anything to protect its citizens security. Hamas never seems to have a right to self defense, and Israel never seems to NOT have a right to self defense.

All I ask is that we be consistent.

And when Israel was having peace talks and trying to revive the Palestinian economy who was it that tried to sabotage them? Who turned the Gaza strip into a police state? (I'm pretty sure that it would be doing fine right now if not for Hamas). They've killed about 400 Israelis and wounded about 2000 (only from 2000 to 2004)- now imagine how much higher it would be if no military action was taken. I'm not saying that Israel has been innocent, but let's not be delusional here.

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Israel pretty well keep the Gaza strip under their thumb?

They did because it was necessary. They gave them jobs and electricity and security before Hamas came to power (and has killed quite a few of its own civilians itself). If they didn't, Israel would eventually withdraw from Gaza the same way that they are withdrawing from the West Bank now due to the reduction of terrorism.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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11/16/2012 4:56:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 11/16/2012 4:53:31 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 11/16/2012 4:49:29 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 4:43:43 PM, MouthWash wrote:
At 11/16/2012 3:27:03 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 11/16/2012 3:21:13 PM, Koopin wrote:
Both people are in the wrong. As a Christian people expect me to love every single move Israel does, but I refuse.

Zizek makes a good point about how the Zionists have teamed up with openly Anti-Semitic Christian fundamentalists but they now have the audacity to call any non-Zionist Jews "self-hating". LOLOL, who's really self-hating, the people who collaborate with Anti-Semites or the regular people?

The Breivik shootings in Norway featured a Zionist Nazi who hated Jews but who favored Israel as a means of flushing out the Jews from Europe and putting them between the Caucasians and the Arabs.

Um, what? Zionism is the belief that the Jews have a right to national sovereignty. It's quite obvious that what you're trying to do is paint "Zionism" as something that it isn't and dissociate it with Judaism (so that you won't be called anti-Semitic).

Zionism (Hebrew: ציונות‎, Tsiyonut) is a form of nationalism of Jews and Jewish culture that supports a Jewish nation state in territory defined as the Land of Israel.[1] Zionism supports Jews upholding their Jewish identity and opposes the assimilation of Jews into other societies.

Zionism is not integral to Judaism. There are non-Zionist Jews.

https://en.wikipedia.org...

If they can be called "Zionists," then they are certainly not the regular type of Zionists. But it seemed that you were trying to draw parallels between them and Nazis, which is what I would expect from you.

I didn't draw any parallels between them and Nazis. I said that Zionist Nazis exist.