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LAPD Fires on Innocent Civilians

royalpaladin
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2/8/2013 8:05:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
LOS ANGELES -- Police officers shot innocent people during the frenzied manhunt for Christopher Dorner, a former cop suspected of murdering 3 people and shooting several more.

Officers from the Los Angeles and Torrance police departments engaged in two separate shootings Thursday morning in Torrance, Calif., reports KTLA. They had come across two different vehicles that were similar to the description of Dorner's getaway car, a gray 2005 Nissan Titan pickup.

The first shooting incident happened at 5:20 a.m. Officers from the Hollywood division of the LAPD shot two people who turned out to have no connection to Dorner's crimes. They were transported to the hospital with gunshot injuries.

The second incident occurred 25 minutes later and involved Torrance police. While shots were fired, there were no reported injuries.

In a press conference Thursday morning, LAPD Chief Charlie Beck confirmed that police shot innocent bystanders during the hunt for Dorner. He detailed the two victims' gunshot wounds:

"One has a minor gunshot wound and is in the process of being released. The second person is in stable condition, with two gunshot wounds," said Chief Beck. "Tragically, we believe this was a case of mistaken identity by the officers."

Sources tell the Los Angeles Times that the people shot by police were two women delivering newspapers. One was shot in the hand and the other in the back.

Dorner, a former LAPD officer and Navy reservist, is suspected of fatally shooting Cal State Fullerton basketball coach Monica Quan and her fiance, USC security officer Keith Lawrence. When Quan and Lawrence were found in their car Sunday evening, authorities publicly stated they had no known motive or suspects.

That changed Wednesday, when Dorner published a multi-page manifesto on Facebook implicating himself in the murders of Quan and Lawrence.

"I will bring unconventional and asymmetrical warfare to those in LAPD uniform whether on or off duty," wrote Dorner on his Facebook profile. The former cop blamed the LAPD for his termination, listing people he believed were responsible for his dismissal.

One of the people on the list included Quan's father, retired LAPD captain Randal Quan. Cpt. Quan had represented Dorner during his dismissal hearing before the police Board of Rights, reports Associated Press.

During a press conference that night, Irvine police Chief David L. Maggard announced a manhunt for Dorner, warning the public that he was armed and dangerous.

Thursday morning, Dorner is believed to have resumed his shooting rampage. More, from AP:

Early Thursday, the first shooting occurred in Corona and involved two LAPD officers working a security detail, LAPD Sgt. Alex Baez. One officer was grazed.

Later, two officers on routine patrol in neighboring Riverside were ambushed at a stop light, said Riverside Lt. Guy Toussaint. One died and the other was in surgery. The officers shot were not actively looking for Dorner, Toussaint said.
tmar19652
Posts: 727
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2/8/2013 8:11:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 8:05:21 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
LOS ANGELES -- Police officers shot innocent people during the frenzied manhunt for Christopher Dorner, a former cop suspected of murdering 3 people and shooting several more.

Officers from the Los Angeles and Torrance police departments engaged in two separate shootings Thursday morning in Torrance, Calif., reports KTLA. They had come across two different vehicles that were similar to the description of Dorner's getaway car, a gray 2005 Nissan Titan pickup.

The first shooting incident happened at 5:20 a.m. Officers from the Hollywood division of the LAPD shot two people who turned out to have no connection to Dorner's crimes. They were transported to the hospital with gunshot injuries.

The second incident occurred 25 minutes later and involved Torrance police. While shots were fired, there were no reported injuries.

In a press conference Thursday morning, LAPD Chief Charlie Beck confirmed that police shot innocent bystanders during the hunt for Dorner. He detailed the two victims' gunshot wounds:

"One has a minor gunshot wound and is in the process of being released. The second person is in stable condition, with two gunshot wounds," said Chief Beck. "Tragically, we believe this was a case of mistaken identity by the officers."

Sources tell the Los Angeles Times that the people shot by police were two women delivering newspapers. One was shot in the hand and the other in the back.

Dorner, a former LAPD officer and Navy reservist, is suspected of fatally shooting Cal State Fullerton basketball coach Monica Quan and her fiance, USC security officer Keith Lawrence. When Quan and Lawrence were found in their car Sunday evening, authorities publicly stated they had no known motive or suspects.

That changed Wednesday, when Dorner published a multi-page manifesto on Facebook implicating himself in the murders of Quan and Lawrence.

"I will bring unconventional and asymmetrical warfare to those in LAPD uniform whether on or off duty," wrote Dorner on his Facebook profile. The former cop blamed the LAPD for his termination, listing people he believed were responsible for his dismissal.

One of the people on the list included Quan's father, retired LAPD captain Randal Quan. Cpt. Quan had represented Dorner during his dismissal hearing before the police Board of Rights, reports Associated Press.

During a press conference that night, Irvine police Chief David L. Maggard announced a manhunt for Dorner, warning the public that he was armed and dangerous.

Thursday morning, Dorner is believed to have resumed his shooting rampage. More, from AP:

Early Thursday, the first shooting occurred in Corona and involved two LAPD officers working a security detail, LAPD Sgt. Alex Baez. One officer was grazed.

Later, two officers on routine patrol in neighboring Riverside were ambushed at a stop light, said Riverside Lt. Guy Toussaint. One died and the other was in surgery. The officers shot were not actively looking for Dorner, Toussaint said.

No one was hurt, what is the problem? They needed to get this cop-killer.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
Buddamoose
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2/8/2013 8:12:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The fact that innocent people were shot at is obviously tragic. I dont blame them for handling the situation in that manner though, but believe it does merit at the least counseling on the matter, so said situations will be handled better in the future.

From the rest of the article, it appears this nutjob is deciding to just randomly start attacking officers of the law, so it becomes understandable in that context, that said officers would be immedistely on edge and fearing for their well-being when approaching vehicles suspected to be being driven by aforementioned nutjob.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Buddamoose
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2/8/2013 8:14:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I have a couple of police officers as friends, and its already a difficult enough job with the negative stigma society has attached to officers. Throw in someone who has intentions of killing as many as he can, and that already stressful and dangerous job, becomes even more so.
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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2/8/2013 8:30:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 8:11:48 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 2/8/2013 8:05:21 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
LOS ANGELES -- Police officers shot innocent people during the frenzied manhunt for Christopher Dorner, a former cop suspected of murdering 3 people and shooting several more.

Officers from the Los Angeles and Torrance police departments engaged in two separate shootings Thursday morning in Torrance, Calif., reports KTLA. They had come across two different vehicles that were similar to the description of Dorner's getaway car, a gray 2005 Nissan Titan pickup.

The first shooting incident happened at 5:20 a.m. Officers from the Hollywood division of the LAPD shot two people who turned out to have no connection to Dorner's crimes. They were transported to the hospital with gunshot injuries.

The second incident occurred 25 minutes later and involved Torrance police. While shots were fired, there were no reported injuries.

In a press conference Thursday morning, LAPD Chief Charlie Beck confirmed that police shot innocent bystanders during the hunt for Dorner. He detailed the two victims' gunshot wounds:

"One has a minor gunshot wound and is in the process of being released. The second person is in stable condition, with two gunshot wounds," said Chief Beck. "Tragically, we believe this was a case of mistaken identity by the officers."

Sources tell the Los Angeles Times that the people shot by police were two women delivering newspapers. One was shot in the hand and the other in the back.

Dorner, a former LAPD officer and Navy reservist, is suspected of fatally shooting Cal State Fullerton basketball coach Monica Quan and her fiance, USC security officer Keith Lawrence. When Quan and Lawrence were found in their car Sunday evening, authorities publicly stated they had no known motive or suspects.

That changed Wednesday, when Dorner published a multi-page manifesto on Facebook implicating himself in the murders of Quan and Lawrence.

"I will bring unconventional and asymmetrical warfare to those in LAPD uniform whether on or off duty," wrote Dorner on his Facebook profile. The former cop blamed the LAPD for his termination, listing people he believed were responsible for his dismissal.

One of the people on the list included Quan's father, retired LAPD captain Randal Quan. Cpt. Quan had represented Dorner during his dismissal hearing before the police Board of Rights, reports Associated Press.

During a press conference that night, Irvine police Chief David L. Maggard announced a manhunt for Dorner, warning the public that he was armed and dangerous.

Thursday morning, Dorner is believed to have resumed his shooting rampage. More, from AP:

Early Thursday, the first shooting occurred in Corona and involved two LAPD officers working a security detail, LAPD Sgt. Alex Baez. One officer was grazed.

Later, two officers on routine patrol in neighboring Riverside were ambushed at a stop light, said Riverside Lt. Guy Toussaint. One died and the other was in surgery. The officers shot were not actively looking for Dorner, Toussaint said.

No one was hurt, what is the problem? They needed to get this cop-killer.

That doesn't justify firing on innocent civilians.
royalpaladin
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2/8/2013 8:33:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Budda, I did some research after I read this: this man is not a nutjob who wants to kill cops for fun. I agree that what he is doing was wrong, but I sympathize with his frustration. The reason that he is doing this is that he is a whistleblower who exposed a fellow officer for using excessive force, and the action was covered up and he was fired for "lying" despite the fact that there was video evidence and the victim independently confirmed that excessive force was used. The LAPD destroyed his career and family life.

Read his "manifesto":

http://www.foxnews.com...
bossyburrito
Posts: 14,075
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2/8/2013 8:36:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 8:14:41 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
I have a couple of police officers as friends, and its already a difficult enough job with the negative stigma society has attached to officers. Throw in someone who has intentions of killing as many as he can, and that already stressful and dangerous job, becomes even more so.

I don't care. If you're not up for the job DON'T BE A POLICE OFFICER.
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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2/8/2013 8:40:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
From what I gather from his story as well as the comments he made to people who affected his life positively and to celebrities, women who are just entering the military in combat roles, this was essentially an upright, moral individual who was driven to desperation by society.

Again, I absolutely do not condone what he is currently doing, but I think it is important to realize that this monster was created by the LAPD.
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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2/8/2013 8:42:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 8:40:10 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
From what I gather from his story as well as the comments he made to people who affected his life positively and to celebrities, women who are just entering the military in combat roles, this was essentially an upright, moral individual who was driven to desperation by society.

Again, I absolutely do not condone what he is currently doing, but I think it is important to realize that this monster was created by the LAPD.

As The LAPD's reputation goes from terrible to horrid...
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
Heineken
Posts: 1,230
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2/8/2013 9:03:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
It happens. Human error is unavoidable, tragic as it may be. I don't think this merits public outrage. It might merit some additional training for the police department.
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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2/8/2013 9:06:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 9:03:04 AM, Heineken wrote:
It happens. Human error is unavoidable, tragic as it may be. I don't think this merits public outrage. It might merit some additional training for the police department.

Hospitalization of civilians doesn't merit outrage? They could have died, and it's entirely possible that they will. But who cares, just train them some more so that they can go out and do it again.

The "error" seem unlikely to me. Both individuals who were shot were women. The suspect is male.
tmar19652
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2/8/2013 9:21:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 9:06:41 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/8/2013 9:03:04 AM, Heineken wrote:
It happens. Human error is unavoidable, tragic as it may be. I don't think this merits public outrage. It might merit some additional training for the police department.

Hospitalization of civilians doesn't merit outrage? They could have died, and it's entirely possible that they will. But who cares, just train them some more so that they can go out and do it again.

The "error" seem unlikely to me. Both individuals who were shot were women. The suspect is male.
Oh, It has to be sexism!! Now we truly know why he did it.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
Heineken
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2/8/2013 9:22:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 9:06:41 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/8/2013 9:03:04 AM, Heineken wrote:
It happens. Human error is unavoidable, tragic as it may be. I don't think this merits public outrage. It might merit some additional training for the police department.

Hospitalization of civilians doesn't merit outrage? They could have died, and it's entirely possible that they will. But who cares, just train them some more so that they can go out and do it again.

The "error" seem unlikely to me. Both individuals who were shot were women. The suspect is male.

Sure, it merits a response to the community, certainly the family....but it should be an outrage. I think America has become far to litigious, always sitting on the precipices of a law-suit.
Human error is met with threats of legal-fallout or media pressure, when really all that's needed is an internal investigation by the inspector general (which occurs anyways in accidental shootings by a police officer).

We shouldn't grab our pitchforks on a hunt for malice or negligence, if the shooting was simply a mistake. Those who got shot will be taken care of, the same way that a trucking company will pay for your hospital bill if one of their drivers accidentally injures you on the highway.
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
Heineken
Posts: 1,230
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2/8/2013 9:23:58 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 9:22:48 AM, Heineken wrote:
At 2/8/2013 9:06:41 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/8/2013 9:03:04 AM, Heineken wrote:
It happens. Human error is unavoidable, tragic as it may be. I don't think this merits public outrage. It might merit some additional training for the police department.

Hospitalization of civilians doesn't merit outrage? They could have died, and it's entirely possible that they will. But who cares, just train them some more so that they can go out and do it again.

The "error" seem unlikely to me. Both individuals who were shot were women. The suspect is male.

Sure, it merits a response to the community, certainly the family....but it should'nt be an outrage. (fixed) I think America has become far to litigious, always sitting on the precipices of a law-suit.
Human error is met with threats of legal-fallout or media pressure, when really all that's needed is an internal investigation by the inspector general (which occurs anyways in accidental shootings by a police officer).

We shouldn't grab our pitchforks on a hunt for malice or negligence, if the shooting was simply a mistake. Those who got shot will be taken care of, the same way that a trucking company will pay for your hospital bill if one of their drivers accidentally injures you on the highway.
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
tmar19652
Posts: 727
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2/8/2013 9:25:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 9:22:48 AM, Heineken wrote:
At 2/8/2013 9:06:41 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/8/2013 9:03:04 AM, Heineken wrote:
It happens. Human error is unavoidable, tragic as it may be. I don't think this merits public outrage. It might merit some additional training for the police department.

Hospitalization of civilians doesn't merit outrage? They could have died, and it's entirely possible that they will. But who cares, just train them some more so that they can go out and do it again.

The "error" seem unlikely to me. Both individuals who were shot were women. The suspect is male.

Sure, it merits a response to the community, certainly the family....but it should be an outrage. I think America has become far to litigious, always sitting on the precipices of a law-suit.
Human error is met with threats of legal-fallout or media pressure, when really all that's needed is an internal investigation by the inspector general (which occurs anyways in accidental shootings by a police officer).

We shouldn't grab our pitchforks on a hunt for malice or negligence, if the shooting was simply a mistake. Those who got shot will be taken care of, the same way that a trucking company will pay for your hospital bill if one of their drivers accidentally injures you on the highway.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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2/8/2013 9:38:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 9:22:48 AM, Heineken wrote:
At 2/8/2013 9:06:41 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/8/2013 9:03:04 AM, Heineken wrote:
It happens. Human error is unavoidable, tragic as it may be. I don't think this merits public outrage. It might merit some additional training for the police department.

Hospitalization of civilians doesn't merit outrage? They could have died, and it's entirely possible that they will. But who cares, just train them some more so that they can go out and do it again.

The "error" seem unlikely to me. Both individuals who were shot were women. The suspect is male.

Sure, it merits a response to the community, certainly the family....but it should be an outrage. I think America has become far to litigious, always sitting on the precipices of a law-suit.
There is nothing wrong with this. The police department should be held accountable for shooting two armed individuals who were not the suspect. Even if they had mistaken the two women for the suspect (unlikely since the sex and race of the two individuals is different from the suspect's), they should still pay. "Accidental" shootings are destructive and merit quick and decisive loss of jobs as well as large payouts from the shooters' salaries.
Human error is met with threats of legal-fallout or media pressure, when really all that's needed is an internal investigation by the inspector general (which occurs anyways in accidental shootings by a police officer).

"Human error" should be punished. There should be no error for people who are walking around with weapons. I know it seems harsh, but people's lives are at stake, and you cannot simply say that the problem is meaningless.
We shouldn't grab our pitchforks on a hunt for malice or negligence, if the shooting was simply a mistake. Those who got shot will be taken care of, the same way that a trucking company will pay for your hospital bill if one of their drivers accidentally injures you on the highway.

The shooters should be fired, fined, and lose large portions of their paychecks.
Heineken
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2/8/2013 9:55:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 9:38:54 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/8/2013 9:22:48 AM, Heineken wrote:
At 2/8/2013 9:06:41 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/8/2013 9:03:04 AM, Heineken wrote:
It happens. Human error is unavoidable, tragic as it may be. I don't think this merits public outrage. It might merit some additional training for the police department.

Hospitalization of civilians doesn't merit outrage? They could have died, and it's entirely possible that they will. But who cares, just train them some more so that they can go out and do it again.

The "error" seem unlikely to me. Both individuals who were shot were women. The suspect is male.

Sure, it merits a response to the community, certainly the family....but it should be an outrage. I think America has become far to litigious, always sitting on the precipices of a law-suit.
There is nothing wrong with this. The police department should be held accountable for shooting two armed individuals who were not the suspect. Even if they had mistaken the two women for the suspect (unlikely since the sex and race of the two individuals is different from the suspect's), they should still pay. "Accidental" shootings are destructive and merit quick and decisive loss of jobs as well as large payouts from the shooters' salaries.

I think the cops are entitled to a fair hearing with legal representation. I think the Inspector General and Internal Affairs should be trusted to complete the investigation and provide an accurate report. I think the conduct of the two females should be reviewed because I doubt he just opened fire like a mad-man. We're going to assume he made an honest mistake until the evidence proves negligence or willful homicide. Innocent until proven guilty, right?

You're entirely too invested in paying the victims before you've established just how much payout they're entitled to. What if they didn't obey a direct order from a police officer and made threatening gestures? What if he was legally authorized to use force? All you know, you've seen on the news. Wait for an investigation report.

Human error is met with threats of legal-fallout or media pressure, when really all that's needed is an internal investigation by the inspector general (which occurs anyways in accidental shootings by a police officer).

"Human error" should be punished.
To what degree?

There should be no error for people who are walking around with weapons.
That's impossible and enforcing such an ideal would result in police inaction, because every cop would be fearful of reprisal.

I know it seems harsh, but people's lives are at stake, and you cannot simply say that the problem is meaningless.

Nobody said it's meaningless. You're putting words in my mouth.

We shouldn't grab our pitchforks on a hunt for malice or negligence, if the shooting was simply a mistake. Those who got shot will be taken care of, the same way that a trucking company will pay for your hospital bill if one of their drivers accidentally injures you on the highway.

The shooters should be fired, fined, and lose large portions of their paychecks.

If the shooter is fired, he won't have a paycheck. Additionally, administrative action is internal, not judicial. The women will need to seek a civil hearing to gain these payments, because a criminal trial would result in the police department paying the fines, not the cop.
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
bossyburrito
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2/8/2013 10:04:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 9:06:41 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/8/2013 9:03:04 AM, Heineken wrote:
It happens. Human error is unavoidable, tragic as it may be. I don't think this merits public outrage. It might merit some additional training for the police department.

Hospitalization of civilians doesn't merit outrage? They could have died, and it's entirely possible that they will. But who cares, just train them some more so that they can go out and do it again.

The "error" seem unlikely to me. Both individuals who were shot were women. The suspect is male.
Do you really think that? REALLY?
#UnbanTheMadman

"Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory of lighted streets on quiet nights..."

~ Rush
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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2/8/2013 4:08:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 9:55:33 AM, Heineken wrote:
At 2/8/2013 9:38:54 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/8/2013 9:22:48 AM, Heineken wrote:
At 2/8/2013 9:06:41 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/8/2013 9:03:04 AM, Heineken wrote:
It happens. Human error is unavoidable, tragic as it may be. I don't think this merits public outrage. It might merit some additional training for the police department.

Hospitalization of civilians doesn't merit outrage? They could have died, and it's entirely possible that they will. But who cares, just train them some more so that they can go out and do it again.

The "error" seem unlikely to me. Both individuals who were shot were women. The suspect is male.

Sure, it merits a response to the community, certainly the family....but it should be an outrage. I think America has become far to litigious, always sitting on the precipices of a law-suit.
There is nothing wrong with this. The police department should be held accountable for shooting two armed individuals who were not the suspect. Even if they had mistaken the two women for the suspect (unlikely since the sex and race of the two individuals is different from the suspect's), they should still pay. "Accidental" shootings are destructive and merit quick and decisive loss of jobs as well as large payouts from the shooters' salaries.

I think the cops are entitled to a fair hearing with legal representation.
I never implied otherwise.
I think the Inspector General and Internal Affairs should be trusted to complete the investigation and provide an accurate report.
I don't agree-based on what I've found, the LAPD is corrupt. An external organization like the FBI should do the investigation.
I think the conduct of the two females should be reviewed because I doubt he just opened fire like a mad-man.
They opened fire because the two women were in a pickup truck that looked similar to the pickup truck that the suspect was driving. They were on the road, and the police officers shot 40 rounds into the car. The women did not do anything; one of them is 70 years old. Do you honestly think that she was a threat?
We're going to assume he made an honest mistake until the evidence proves negligence or willful homicide. Innocent until proven guilty, right?

Good thing that I'm not a judge in the court of law. I am not beholden to making that presumption. I can pass any judgment I desire as a civilian.
You're entirely too invested in paying the victims before you've established just how much payout they're entitled to. What if they didn't obey a direct order from a police officer and made threatening gestures?
Because they didn't. The police officers shot them while they were driving. It's in the media. Plus, explain to me what threatening gestures these two women, who were out delivering news papers, could have possibly made to the police officers? They couldn't have even seen anything! Even if they didn't obey an order, that is not an excuse to shoot someone. The LAPD is not the Gestapo.
What if he was legally authorized to use force?
He probably was. That doesn't mean he can shoot civilians.
All you know, you've seen on the news. Wait for an investigation report.

Nope. I can make any judgments I want. You cannot shoot two people, one of whom is 70, just for being in a similar car to that of the suspect.

To what degree?

To a large degree, especially if the accident requires hospitalization.

That's impossible and enforcing such an ideal would result in police inaction, because every cop would be fearful of reprisal.

Good. Cops need to learn how to stop attacking innocent people anyways.

Nobody said it's meaningless. You're putting words in my mouth.

You certainly implied it when you said that we shouldn't feel outraged and should just train the officers some more.

If the shooter is fired, he won't have a paycheck.
Sell his property then.
Additionally, administrative action is internal, not judicial. The women will need to seek a civil hearing to gain these payments, because a criminal trial would result in the police department paying the fines, not the cop.
royalpaladin
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2/8/2013 4:09:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 10:04:31 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 2/8/2013 9:06:41 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/8/2013 9:03:04 AM, Heineken wrote:
It happens. Human error is unavoidable, tragic as it may be. I don't think this merits public outrage. It might merit some additional training for the police department.

Hospitalization of civilians doesn't merit outrage? They could have died, and it's entirely possible that they will. But who cares, just train them some more so that they can go out and do it again.

The "error" seem unlikely to me. Both individuals who were shot were women. The suspect is male.
Do you really think that? REALLY?

Yes
Buddamoose
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2/8/2013 4:14:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 4:09:57 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
There are 10,000 cops looking for one person.

And it will take a very long time to find him, cause the LAPD to me, seems like a shameful police organization...
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
royalpaladin
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2/8/2013 4:20:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 4:14:00 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 2/8/2013 4:09:57 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
There are 10,000 cops looking for one person.

And it will take a very long time to find him, cause the LAPD to me, seems like a shameful police organization...

Yeah, I don't think they'll find him anytime soon. The guy was in the army and was deployed overseas. He knows how to take care of himself.

I wish he had taken his story to the public instead of doing this. He could have even sued the LAPD and written a book to support himself. :(
Buddamoose
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2/8/2013 4:28:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 4:20:26 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/8/2013 4:14:00 PM, Buddamoose wrote:
At 2/8/2013 4:09:57 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
There are 10,000 cops looking for one person.

And it will take a very long time to find him, cause the LAPD to me, seems like a shameful police organization...

Yeah, I don't think they'll find him anytime soon. The guy was in the army and was deployed overseas. He knows how to take care of himself.

I wish he had taken his story to the public instead of doing this. He could have even sued the LAPD and written a book to support himself. :(

This is true, there generally always is a non-violent solution to problems, but sadly, most of the time people dont take that route
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
slo1
Posts: 4,318
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2/8/2013 4:30:14 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Any respectable hunter knows that you don't shoot at anything unless you have 100% identification. I guess the LA police are operating on the 50% rule.

"Sorry, mam, I thought you were a deranged killer, my bad".

Let's just make one thing clear. Shooting someone you thought was someone else is not an accident. It is gross negligence at best.
royalpaladin
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2/8/2013 4:32:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
@Heineken:

he newspaper carriers fired upon by Los Angeles police during a manhunt for a fugitive ex-officer received "no commands, no instructions and no opportunity to surrender," their attorney said.

Emma Hernandez, 71, was delivering the Los Angeles Times with her daughter, Margie Carranza, 47, in the 19500 block of Redbeam Avenue in Torrance on Thursday morning when Los Angeles police officers apparently mistook their blue Toyota Tacoma for a truck belonging to Christopher Dorner, the 33-year-old fugitive suspected of killing three people and injuring two others.

Hernandez, who attorney Glen T. Jonas said was shot twice in the back, was in stable condition late Thursday. Carranza received stitches on her finger.

PHOTOS: Manhunt for ex-LAPD officer

Jonas said he was still trying to gather the facts and determine a sequence of events, but said the women were following their typical routine through the South Bay on Thursday morning, with Hernandez in the back seat handing papers to her daughter, who was driving.

Carranza would briefly slow the truck to throw papers on driveways and front walks, he said. While taking corners, the women typically turn off their lights to avoid disturbing neighbors.

Shortly after turning onto Redbeam Avenue on Thursday, Jonas said, bullets began crashing through the back windshield of the truck. The women "covered their faces and huddled down."

TIMELINE: Manhunt for ex-LAPD officer

"They were just waiting for it to stop," Jonas said. "They felt like it was going on forever and that it was a miracle they survived. If they hadn't ducked, they'd likely be dead."

Jonas estimated that the officers fired 20 to 30 rounds, though he did not know the precise number. The blue pickup sat for several hours on Redbeam on Thursday, riddled with bullets. Newspapers were strewn in the back and on the street.

Bullets peppered cars, homes and triggered the alarm on one vehicle that was struck, said Alan Sidio, who lives behind the home where officers were firing.

FULL COVERAGE: Sweeping manhunt for ex-cop

"That's what's so disturbing, that they would fire so many rounds," he told The Times. "It sounded like the Fourth of July."
Sidio, 58, who described himself as a strong supporter of law enforcement, said he was concerned that the officers fired numerous rounds in an area filled with families and children.

Sources said the officers were on a protective detail for someone named in the manifesto that police say was posted on a Facebook page they believed to be Dorner's. In a statement, the Los Angeles Police Department said its officers received information a vehicle matching Dorner's Nissan Titan was "seen in the area of the protection details."

"Later, officers observed a vehicle matching the description driving down the street weaving from one side of the street to another," the statement said. "As the vehicle continued to weave, it would speed up and slow down. The vehicle then activated its high-beam headlights as it approached closer.

"Officers tried to approach the vehicle and an officer-involved shooting occurred."

Jonas said the vehicle was also "the wrong color and the wrong model."

LAPD Chief Charlie Beck commented on the incident at a Thursday press conference, saying: "Tragically, we believe this is a case of mistaken identity."

About 25 minutes after the shooting, Torrance police opened fire after spotting another truck similar to Dorner's at Flagler Lane and Beryl Street. No one was reported hurt.

Jonas said that while he was disturbed by the shooting, he understood it took place as officers were trying to protect one of their own from a death threat.

"I know they had a job to protect somebody," he said. "To the credit of the officers involved, after the shooting they acted professionally when they realized what happened."

The officers have been placed on desk duty, which is routine after an officer-involved shooting, sources said. LAPD officials said the district attorney's office and LAPD Force Investigation Division were investigating the shooting.

Jonas said his clients did not want to speak about the incident at this point, saying the family is "in a state of shock."

"They"re extremely traumatized," Jonas said. "They"re just trying to make sense of what happened. From their perspective, they"re sitting in a car, doing their job and a thunderstorm of bullets comes down."

Jonas said he was hopeful department officials "recognize the situation for what it is."

"One would expect the city would acknowledge responsibility and handle the situation appropriately," he said. "And if they don"t, we"ll deal with it."
tmar19652
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2/8/2013 4:49:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 2/8/2013 4:09:33 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/8/2013 10:04:31 AM, bossyburrito wrote:
At 2/8/2013 9:06:41 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 2/8/2013 9:03:04 AM, Heineken wrote:
It happens. Human error is unavoidable, tragic as it may be. I don't think this merits public outrage. It might merit some additional training for the police department.

Hospitalization of civilians doesn't merit outrage? They could have died, and it's entirely possible that they will. But who cares, just train them some more so that they can go out and do it again.

The "error" seem unlikely to me. Both individuals who were shot were women. The suspect is male.
Do you really think that? REALLY?

Yes

Why? Im not being sarcastic, but I see no reason why.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush