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Man in Solitary Confinement Without Charges

royalpaladin
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3/8/2013 5:29:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Stephen Slevin spent 22 months in solitary confinement in a New Mexico jail. During that time, his mental health deteriorated, fungus grew on his skin, and he was forced to pull his own tooth after being denied access to a dentist. A recent settlement with Dona Ana County resulted in Slevin receiving $15.5 million.

Initially, Slevin was awarded $22 million by a jury, but Dona Ana County appealed. The two parties reached an agreement this week. According to NBC News, Slevin's attorney, Matt Coyte, said his client's "mental health has been severely compromised from the time he was in that facility. That continues to be the same. No amount of money will bring back what they took away from him. But it"s nice to be able to get him some money so he can improve where he is in life and move on."

During his 22 months in solitary confinement, Slevin developed bedsores and lost 50 pounds. The ordeal began in 2005 when he was arrested on suspicion of driving under the influence and stealing a car, which he says he borrowed from a friend. Slevin was never brought before a judge nor was he officially convicted of any crime. He said he wrote letters, begging for help with his depression. The before and after photos show the effect the 22 months of neglect had.

"Why they did what they did, I'll never know," Slevin told KOB4-TV. "Walking by me, watching me deteriorate day after day after day, and they did nothing at all to get me help."

Slevin's attorney said his client was battling depression at the time of his arrest. His health woes continue. He was recently diagnosed with lung cancer. He also suffers from post traumatic stress disorder due to his time in jail.

Jess Williams, Dona Ana County's public information director, told NBC News that the jail is making an effort to improve the way it treats prisoners with mental illness.
tmar19652
Posts: 727
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3/8/2013 5:46:09 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 5:29:51 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Stephen Slevin spent 22 months in solitary confinement in a New Mexico jail. During that time, his mental health deteriorated, fungus grew on his skin, and he was forced to pull his own tooth after being denied access to a dentist. A recent settlement with Dona Ana County resulted in Slevin receiving $15.5 million.

Initially, Slevin was awarded $22 million by a jury, but Dona Ana County appealed. The two parties reached an agreement this week. According to NBC News, Slevin's attorney, Matt Coyte, said his client's "mental health has been severely compromised from the time he was in that facility. That continues to be the same. No amount of money will bring back what they took away from him. But it"s nice to be able to get him some money so he can improve where he is in life and move on."

During his 22 months in solitary confinement, Slevin developed bedsores and lost 50 pounds. The ordeal began in 2005 when he was arrested on suspicion of driving under the influence and stealing a car, which he says he borrowed from a friend. Slevin was never brought before a judge nor was he officially convicted of any crime. He said he wrote letters, begging for help with his depression. The before and after photos show the effect the 22 months of neglect had.

"Why they did what they did, I'll never know," Slevin told KOB4-TV. "Walking by me, watching me deteriorate day after day after day, and they did nothing at all to get me help."

Slevin's attorney said his client was battling depression at the time of his arrest. His health woes continue. He was recently diagnosed with lung cancer. He also suffers from post traumatic stress disorder due to his time in jail.

Jess Williams, Dona Ana County's public information director, told NBC News that the jail is making an effort to improve the way it treats prisoners with mental illness.

I hope he sues the government for billions. This is inexcusable .
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
Buddamoose
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3/8/2013 5:52:25 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 5:29:51 AM, royalpaladin wrote:

Jess Williams, Dona Ana County's public information director, told NBC News that the jail is making an effort to improve the way it treats prisoners with mental illness.

Oh, well see that changes everything. As long as they're making an effort right? /sarcasm

I sincerely hope they cleaned house of all the people who turned a blind eye to this. Its truly appalling
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mattrodstrom
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3/8/2013 7:19:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 5:52:25 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
I sincerely hope they cleaned house of all the people who turned a blind eye to this. Its truly appalling

I'll start by saying most law enforcement people are good people who are both just trying to make a living and doing the world some good.. my neighbor is a prison guard, my uncle and grandfather are retired police, and plenty of friends as well.

but I really can't stand how when law enforcement personnel break the law (be it in an illegal search, or things more serious) there is often little to no punishment.

Should people be fired for this?
Yes.

Should people be More than fired for this?
Though I don't know enough about the case to say just who's at fault..
I should certainly think so.

This amounts to Kidnapping and unlawful imprisonment... If someone can be charged with something of this nature, They Should.

If we want law enforcement to obey the law they have to be subject to the same consequences for breaking it as everybody else is held to...

Yes, I have sympathy for the position that their in.. It's a tough job, and it's a fine line to walk..
But it's not the only tough job, and all jobs, tough or not, are supposed to be done within the bounds of the law, and if they're not the people who broke the law are supposed to get charged..

Yes, I understand... the biggest offenses usually result in firing... and, though that can be a substantial punishment, it's Really not any where substantial enough for This...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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3/8/2013 7:29:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Solitary confinement is itself inhumane and should be abolished... it's a form of torture.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
tmar19652
Posts: 727
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3/8/2013 8:03:38 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 7:29:48 AM, vbaculum wrote:
Solitary confinement is itself inhumane and should be abolished... it's a form of torture.

What about for an inmate that kills other inmates when they are let out of solitary? It does happen, but I do think that solitary should be restricted to extremely dangerous inmates.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
logicrules
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3/8/2013 8:56:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 5:29:51 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Stephen Slevin spent 22 months in solitary confinement in a New Mexico jail. During that time, his mental health deteriorated, fungus grew on his skin, and he was forced to pull his own tooth after being denied access to a dentist. A recent settlement with Dona Ana County resulted in Slevin receiving $15.5 million.

Initially, Slevin was awarded $22 million by a jury, but Dona Ana County appealed. The two parties reached an agreement this week. According to NBC News, Slevin's attorney, Matt Coyte, said his client's "mental health has been severely compromised from the time he was in that facility. That continues to be the same. No amount of money will bring back what they took away from him. But it"s nice to be able to get him some money so he can improve where he is in life and move on."

During his 22 months in solitary confinement, Slevin developed bedsores and lost 50 pounds. The ordeal began in 2005 when he was arrested on suspicion of driving under the influence and stealing a car, which he says he borrowed from a friend. Slevin was never brought before a judge nor was he officially convicted of any crime. He said he wrote letters, begging for help with his depression. The before and after photos show the effect the 22 months of neglect had.

"Why they did what they did, I'll never know," Slevin told KOB4-TV. "Walking by me, watching me deteriorate day after day after day, and they did nothing at all to get me help."

Slevin's attorney said his client was battling depression at the time of his arrest. His health woes continue. He was recently diagnosed with lung cancer. He also suffers from post traumatic stress disorder due to his time in jail.

Jess Williams, Dona Ana County's public information director, told NBC News that the jail is making an effort to improve the way it treats prisoners with mental illness.

A bit misleading. It seems Mr. Levin was charged with felony auto theft. The USSC has determined that a pending charge is sufficient for holding in jail. Also, It looks as if (probably on advice of counsel) Mr, Slevin waived his right to a speedy trial.

The above notwithstanding, this points out the need for judicial oversight of Police. It is common practice for attorneys to advise clients to waive their rights and spend increasingly long periods in jail for plea bargain. Further, most states do not permit criminal defendants to be classified as "mentally ill" once the process has begun, and by this I mean that the standard becomes the legal not medical for said determination. Then there is the DUI, and we all know that crime is a guilty till proven rich one.
mattrodstrom
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3/8/2013 9:42:35 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 8:03:38 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 3/8/2013 7:29:48 AM, vbaculum wrote:
Solitary confinement is itself inhumane and should be abolished... it's a form of torture.

What about for an inmate that kills other inmates when they are let out of solitary? It does happen, but I do think that solitary should be restricted to extremely dangerous inmates.

agreed.

I don't want to put people in solitary as punishment or torture... I'd want to put them there so that they can't stab people.

That said, I think people who continuously show themselves to be wholly unempathetic, and violently dangerous should be taken out of the equation alltogether.

Now, definitely understand practical limits to our ability to carry out such a task while minimizing the chance of a mistake, and so am sympathetic to the idea of abolishing the death penalty... But some people have an extensive track record of practically indisputable horrible violence...
and Even keeping them locked up is dangerous to guards/other prisoners...

The other prisoner's and guards shouldn't have to be in mortal danger b/c of this... It would probably be more humane on net to just put an end to the situation... However, barring that, and given how it's no longer feasible to maroon them in some far-off land like Australia (prison-planet!), putting them in an extremely controlled environment is the only other real option...
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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3/8/2013 10:08:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 8:03:38 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 3/8/2013 7:29:48 AM, vbaculum wrote:
Solitary confinement is itself inhumane and should be abolished... it's a form of torture.

What about for an inmate that kills other inmates when they are let out of solitary? It does happen, but I do think that solitary should be restricted to extremely dangerous inmates.

Solitary confinement is used as punishment. It's easy to confine people in prison; solitary confinment is a special type of punishment.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
tmar19652
Posts: 727
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3/8/2013 10:12:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 10:08:53 AM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/8/2013 8:03:38 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 3/8/2013 7:29:48 AM, vbaculum wrote:
Solitary confinement is itself inhumane and should be abolished... it's a form of torture.

What about for an inmate that kills other inmates when they are let out of solitary? It does happen, but I do think that solitary should be restricted to extremely dangerous inmates.

Solitary confinement is used as punishment. It's easy to confine people in prison; solitary confinment is a special type of punishment.
An inmate who is confined can still communicate with other inmates and organize "hits" on other inmates. Solitary serves both a a punishment and limits communication among inmates.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
Heineken
Posts: 1,230
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3/8/2013 10:27:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 10:08:53 AM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/8/2013 8:03:38 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 3/8/2013 7:29:48 AM, vbaculum wrote:
Solitary confinement is itself inhumane and should be abolished... it's a form of torture.

What about for an inmate that kills other inmates when they are let out of solitary? It does happen, but I do think that solitary should be restricted to extremely dangerous inmates.

Solitary confinement is used as punishment.
No it's not. It's used to safeguard the general population and prisoner.

It's easy to confine people in prison; solitary confinment is a special type of punishment.

Wrooo...hohohohohohoooo...ng. That's like saying a football helmet is a special type of punishment. It's a safety measure.
Vidi, vici, veni.
(I saw, I conquered, I came.)
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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3/8/2013 12:23:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 10:27:43 AM, Heineken wrote:
At 3/8/2013 10:08:53 AM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/8/2013 8:03:38 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 3/8/2013 7:29:48 AM, vbaculum wrote:
Solitary confinement is itself inhumane and should be abolished... it's a form of torture.

What about for an inmate that kills other inmates when they are let out of solitary? It does happen, but I do think that solitary should be restricted to extremely dangerous inmates.

Solitary confinement is used as punishment.
No it's not. It's used to safeguard the general population and prisoner.

It's easy to confine people in prison; solitary confinment is a special type of punishment.

Wrooo...hohohohohohoooo...ng. That's like saying a football helmet is a special type of punishment. It's a safety measure.

It's been widely critizised as a means of arbitrarily inflicting punishment tantamount to torture.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

It's appropriate to prevent some inmates from communicating with the rest of the prison population, if there is a reason for it. However, it can't be argued that the current system we have for doing this is justifiable.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

THE WORLD IS VEGAN! If you want it
tmar19652
Posts: 727
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3/8/2013 1:17:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 12:23:26 PM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/8/2013 10:27:43 AM, Heineken wrote:
At 3/8/2013 10:08:53 AM, vbaculum wrote:
At 3/8/2013 8:03:38 AM, tmar19652 wrote:
At 3/8/2013 7:29:48 AM, vbaculum wrote:
Solitary confinement is itself inhumane and should be abolished... it's a form of torture.

What about for an inmate that kills other inmates when they are let out of solitary? It does happen, but I do think that solitary should be restricted to extremely dangerous inmates.

Solitary confinement is used as punishment.
No it's not. It's used to safeguard the general population and prisoner.

It's easy to confine people in prison; solitary confinment is a special type of punishment.

Wrooo...hohohohohohoooo...ng. That's like saying a football helmet is a special type of punishment. It's a safety measure.

It's been widely critizised as a means of arbitrarily inflicting punishment tantamount to torture.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

It's appropriate to prevent some inmates from communicating with the rest of the prison population, if there is a reason for it. However, it can't be argued that the current system we have for doing this is justifiable.
It is perfectly justifiable keeping guard killers in solitary.
"Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." -Ronald Reagan

"The notion of political correctness declares certain topics, certain ex<x>pressions even certain gestures off-limits. What began as a crusade for civility has soured into a cause of conflict and even censorship." -George H.W. Bush
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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3/8/2013 6:41:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I heard about this from my history teacher.

That just sucks....but, I mean at least hes set for life. I doubt it was worth it, but I'm glad he got as much as he did.

Seriously, nobody even bothered checking?!
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charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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3/12/2013 2:37:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 7:19:24 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 3/8/2013 5:52:25 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
I sincerely hope they cleaned house of all the people who turned a blind eye to this. Its truly appalling

I'll start by saying most law enforcement people are good people

Please, not the cliched and programmed line that members of law enforcement who make the news for grievous misconduct are merely the "bad apples" and not the norm. Sorry, and no disrespect to your neighbor and family members, but there've quite simply been too many "bad apples" who've come to light over the years for this "classic" defense to possess any credibility any longer, unless one willfully chooses to suspend critical thinking, that is. Also, one has to be guilty of suspending critical intellection to the point of being somewhat naive if one continues to think in conventional terms of the police being sterling sentinels of public safety who are there solely to serve and protect us. I'll be quite blunt. It's certainly not at all the legitimate mission, but it is the primary mission of those in authority, whether we're talking police officers or politicians, to ensure the preservation of the established order and the security of our society's elite. To keep the disaffected, disruptive, and delinquent members of society, i.e. the casualties of our society's inequities and anomie, managed in the best interest of our political and plutocratic masters. Of course this necessarily in part entails maintaining order on the streets and locking up dangerous characters, and so it's in fact a fairly plausible bit of propaganda that the police exist to keep us safe and snug in our houses and conventional lives. But never forget that public safety is merely a secondary effect, a happy byproduct of the more fundamental social control-administering function of the criminal justice-penal complex, that in point of fact its members are mainly the enforcers of the Establishment and not our knights in gleaming armor. At any rate, if you can keep this bit of radical truth in mind then you won't feel so defensive when cops and jailers are accused of abusing their authority and prisoners. And perhaps you'll even join the hue and cry that discourages such genuinely heinous incidents as the one described in the OP.

who are both just trying to make a living and doing the world some good.. my neighbor is a prison guard, my uncle and grandfather are retired police, and plenty of friends as well.

So, essentially you're telling us that you have personal connections that bias you in favor of a favorable view of law enforcement. Well, admitting your bias doesn't validate it.

but I really can't stand how when law enforcement personnel break the law (be it in an illegal search, or things more serious) there is often little to no punishment.

Glad to hear it.

Should people be fired for this?
Yes.

And criminally charged? Absolutely.

Should people be More than fired for this?
Though I don't know enough about the case to say just who's at fault..
I should certainly think so.

I most certainly think so.

This amounts to Kidnapping and unlawful imprisonment... If someone can be charged with something of this nature, They Should.

Agreed.

If we want law enforcement to obey the law they have to be subject to the same consequences for breaking it as everybody else is held to...

But unfortunately they aren't, and never will be with any consistency in our current form of sociopolitical system.

Yes, I have sympathy for the position that they're in.. It's a tough job, and it's a fine line to walk..

Perhaps those involved weren't simply nice individuals who innocently fell down on a tough job, perhaps they suffer from a callous mindset that disposes them to treat prisoners inhumanely, ever seriously considered that ugly possibility? Or is that altogether inconceivable to you because your neighbor and uncle are decent guys? I hope that your viewpoint is a bit more complex than that.

But it's not the only tough job, and all jobs, tough or not, are supposed to be done within the bounds of the law, and if they're not the people who broke the law are supposed to get charged..

Good.

Yes, I understand... the biggest offenses usually result in firing... and, though that can be a substantial punishment, it's Really not any where substantial enough for This...

Agreed.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
charleslb
Posts: 4,740
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3/12/2013 5:43:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
In other and briefer words, matt, let's try to think in a more maturely skeptical fashion about law enforcement and its function, and not like "nice" children who've been conditioned by their "nice" and conventional parents to smile at and show respect to policemen. Mm-hmm, making it through the police academy and donning a blue uniform doesn't necessarily entitle one to instant and uncritical respect, or status as "one of the good guys".
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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3/12/2013 6:09:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 5:43:19 PM, charleslb wrote:
In other and briefer words, matt, let's try to think in a more maturely skeptical fashion about law enforcement and its function, and not like "nice" children who've been conditioned by their "nice" and conventional parents to smile at and show respect to policemen. Mm-hmm, making it through the police academy and donning a blue uniform doesn't necessarily entitle one to instant and uncritical respect, or status as "one of the good guys".

This is very true. The blind worship that people have for the police never fails to amaze and disgust me. Such things need to be judged on an individual basis, because pinning a badge on someone's chest doesn't make them good, it just gives them power.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
ConservativeAmerican
Posts: 1,676
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3/13/2013 7:22:52 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 5:43:19 PM, charleslb wrote:
In other and briefer words, matt, let's try to think in a more maturely skeptical fashion about law enforcement and its function, and not like "nice" children who've been conditioned by their "nice" and conventional parents to smile at and show respect to policemen. Mm-hmm, making it through the police academy and donning a blue uniform doesn't necessarily entitle one to instant and uncritical respect, or status as "one of the good guys".

Most of them still do their job and put their life on the line to protect you daily, unless they did something that was unlawful or unfair, they do deserve a little respect.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/13/2013 7:31:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 2:37:23 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/8/2013 7:19:24 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 3/8/2013 5:52:25 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
I sincerely hope they cleaned house of all the people who turned a blind eye to this. Its truly appalling

I'll start by saying most law enforcement people are good people

Please, not the cliched and programmed line that members of law enforcement who make the news for grievous misconduct are merely the "bad apples" and not the norm. Sorry, and no disrespect to your neighbor and family members, but there've quite simply been too many "bad apples" who've come to light over the years for this "classic" defense to possess any credibility any longer, unless one willfully chooses to suspend critical thinking, that is. Also, one has to be guilty of suspending critical intellection to the point of being somewhat naive if one continues to think in conventional terms of the police being sterling sentinels of public safety who are there solely to serve and protect us. I'll be quite blunt. It's certainly not at all the legitimate mission, but it is the primary mission of those in authority, whether we're talking police officers or politicians, to ensure the preservation of the established order and the security of our society's elite. To keep the disaffected, disruptive, and delinquent members of society, i.e. the casualties of our society's inequities and anomie, managed in the best interest of our political and plutocratic masters. Of course this necessarily in part entails maintaining order on the streets and locking up dangerous characters, and so it's in fact a fairly plausible bit of propaganda that the police exist to keep us safe and snug in our houses and conventional lives. But never forget that public safety is merely a secondary effect, a happy byproduct of the more fundamental social control-administering function of the criminal justice-penal complex, that in point of fact its members are mainly the enforcers of the Establishment and not our knights in gleaming armor. At any rate, if you can keep this bit of radical truth in mind then you won't feel so defensive when cops and jailers are accused of abusing their authority and prisoners. And perhaps you'll even join the hue and cry that discourages such genuinely heinous incidents as the one described in the OP.


who are both just trying to make a living and doing the world some good.. my neighbor is a prison guard, my uncle and grandfather are retired police, and plenty of friends as well.

So, essentially you're telling us that you have personal connections that bias you in favor of a favorable view of law enforcement. Well, admitting your bias doesn't validate it.

but I really can't stand how when law enforcement personnel break the law (be it in an illegal search, or things more serious) there is often little to no punishment.

Glad to hear it.

Should people be fired for this?
Yes.

And criminally charged? Absolutely.

Should people be More than fired for this?
Though I don't know enough about the case to say just who's at fault..
I should certainly think so.

I most certainly think so.

This amounts to Kidnapping and unlawful imprisonment... If someone can be charged with something of this nature, They Should.

Agreed.

If we want law enforcement to obey the law they have to be subject to the same consequences for breaking it as everybody else is held to...

But unfortunately they aren't, and never will be with any consistency in our current form of sociopolitical system.

Yes, I have sympathy for the position that they're in.. It's a tough job, and it's a fine line to walk..

Perhaps those involved weren't simply nice individuals who innocently fell down on a tough job, perhaps they suffer from a callous mindset that disposes them to treat prisoners inhumanely, ever seriously considered that ugly possibility? Or is that altogether inconceivable to you because your neighbor and uncle are decent guys? I hope that your viewpoint is a bit more complex than that.


But it's not the only tough job, and all jobs, tough or not, are supposed to be done within the bounds of the law, and if they're not the people who broke the law are supposed to get charged..

Good.

Yes, I understand... the biggest offenses usually result in firing... and, though that can be a substantial punishment, it's Really not any where substantial enough for This...

Agreed.

you're an idiot.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
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3/13/2013 7:38:19 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/12/2013 5:43:19 PM, charleslb wrote:
In other and briefer words, matt, let's try to think in a more maturely skeptical fashion about law enforcement and its function, and not like "nice" children who've been conditioned by their "nice" and conventional parents to smile at and show respect to policemen. Mm-hmm, making it through the police academy and donning a blue uniform doesn't necessarily entitle one to instant and uncritical respect, or status as "one of the good guys".

ummm never said it did.

I prefaced my decrying the common light-handed punishments cops get with the assurance that I didn't hate cops Just for being cops...

with the assurance that I recognize that most of them are good people...
Just like the rest of us are...

you're just an idiot who likes to hear himself speak and so you did your Darndest to make something out of nothing.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/13/2013 7:46:37 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/13/2013 7:38:19 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 3/12/2013 5:43:19 PM, charleslb wrote:
In other and briefer words, matt, let's try to think in a more maturely skeptical fashion about law enforcement and its function, and not like "nice" children who've been conditioned by their "nice" and conventional parents to smile at and show respect to policemen. Mm-hmm, making it through the police academy and donning a blue uniform doesn't necessarily entitle one to instant and uncritical respect, or status as "one of the good guys".

ummm never said it did.

I prefaced my decrying the common light-handed punishments cops get with the assurance that I didn't hate cops Just for being cops...

with the assurance that I recognize that most of them are good people...
Just like the rest of us are...

And, yes... I started this way to address myself to those people who do glorify police... and to open a conversation to those who might disagree with me

I didn't myself suggest that one ought to give cops the benefit of the doubt on every apparent wrongdoing... I did my best to give assurances that I'm not against them from the start.

again, you're an idiot.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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3/13/2013 4:36:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/13/2013 7:46:37 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 3/13/2013 7:38:19 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 3/12/2013 5:43:19 PM, charleslb wrote:
In other and briefer words, matt, let's try to think in a more maturely skeptical fashion about law enforcement and its function, and not like "nice" children who've been conditioned by their "nice" and conventional parents to smile at and show respect to policemen. Mm-hmm, making it through the police academy and donning a blue uniform doesn't necessarily entitle one to instant and uncritical respect, or status as "one of the good guys".

ummm never said it did.

I prefaced my decrying the common light-handed punishments cops get with the assurance that I didn't hate cops Just for being cops...

with the assurance that I recognize that most of them are good people...
Just like the rest of us are...

And, yes... I started this way to address myself to those people who do glorify police... and to open a conversation to those who might disagree with me

I didn't myself suggest that one ought to give cops the benefit of the doubt on every apparent wrongdoing... I did my best to give assurances that I'm not against them from the start.

again, you're an idiot.

What bothers me is that most cops will give other cops the benefit of the doubt on every apparent wrongdoing. A prime example:

"In the early morning hours of May 27, 1991, 14-year-old Konerak Sinthasomphone (the younger brother of the boy whom Dahmer had molested in 1988) was discovered on the street, wandering naked, heavily under the influence of drugs and bleeding from his rectum. Two young women from the neighborhood found the dazed boy and called 911. Dahmer chased his victim down and tried to take him away, but the women stopped him. Dahmer told John Balcerzak and Joseph Gabrish, police officers dispatched to the scene, that Sinthasomphone was his 19-year-old boyfriend, and that they had an argument while drinking. Against the protests of the two women who had called 911, who recognized him from the neighborhood and insisted that he was a child and could not speak English, the officers turned him over to Dahmer. They later reported smelling a strange scent while inside Dahmer's apartment, but did not investigate it. The smell was the body of Tony Hughes, Dahmer's previous victim, decomposing in the bedroom. The officers did not make any attempt to verify Sinthasomphone's age or identity, nor locate someone who could communicate with him, and failed to run a background check that would have revealed Dahmer being a convicted child molester still under probation. Later that night, Dahmer killed and dismembered Sinthasomphone, keeping his skull as a souvenir."
http://en.wikipedia.org...

"Balcerzak and Gabrish positions and roles within the Milwaukee Police Department were terminated after their actions were widely publicized, including an audiotape of the officers making homophobic statements to their dispatcher and cracking jokes about having reunited the "lovers". The officers had never checked the boy's ID or verified his identity. The officers did not check Dahmer's identification; had they done so, they would have discovered that Dahmer was a sex offender previously convicted for molesting Sinthasomphone's older brother.

Both officers later appealed their termination, won, and were reinstated.

In May 2005, Balcerzak was elected president of the Milwaukee Police Association, defeating Sebastian Raclaw by a vote of 521 to 453
."
http://en.wikipedia.org...
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
charleslb
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3/13/2013 4:56:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/13/2013 7:31:54 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 3/12/2013 2:37:23 PM, charleslb wrote:
At 3/8/2013 7:19:24 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
At 3/8/2013 5:52:25 AM, Buddamoose wrote:
I sincerely hope they cleaned house of all the people who turned a blind eye to this. Its truly appalling

I'll start by saying most law enforcement people are good people

Please, not the cliched and programmed line that members of law enforcement who make the news for grievous misconduct are merely the "bad apples" and not the norm. Sorry, and no disrespect to your neighbor and family members, but there've quite simply been too many "bad apples" who've come to light over the years for this "classic" defense to possess any credibility any longer, unless one willfully chooses to suspend critical thinking, that is. Also, one has to be guilty of suspending critical intellection to the point of being somewhat naive if one continues to think in conventional terms of the police being sterling sentinels of public safety who are there solely to serve and protect us. I'll be quite blunt. It's certainly not at all the legitimate mission, but it is the primary mission of those in authority, whether we're talking police officers or politicians, to ensure the preservation of the established order and the security of our society's elite. To keep the disaffected, disruptive, and delinquent members of society, i.e. the casualties of our society's inequities and anomie, managed in the best interest of our political and plutocratic masters. Of course this necessarily in part entails maintaining order on the streets and locking up dangerous characters, and so it's in fact a fairly plausible bit of propaganda that the police exist to keep us safe and snug in our houses and conventional lives. But never forget that public safety is merely a secondary effect, a happy byproduct of the more fundamental social control-administering function of the criminal justice-penal complex, that in point of fact its members are mainly the enforcers of the Establishment and not our knights in gleaming armor. At any rate, if you can keep this bit of radical truth in mind then you won't feel so defensive when cops and jailers are accused of abusing their authority and prisoners. And perhaps you'll even join the hue and cry that discourages such genuinely heinous incidents as the one described in the OP.


who are both just trying to make a living and doing the world some good.. my neighbor is a prison guard, my uncle and grandfather are retired police, and plenty of friends as well.

So, essentially you're telling us that you have personal connections that bias you in favor of a favorable view of law enforcement. Well, admitting your bias doesn't validate it.

but I really can't stand how when law enforcement personnel break the law (be it in an illegal search, or things more serious) there is often little to no punishment.

Glad to hear it.

Should people be fired for this?
Yes.

And criminally charged? Absolutely.

Should people be More than fired for this?
Though I don't know enough about the case to say just who's at fault..
I should certainly think so.

I most certainly think so.

This amounts to Kidnapping and unlawful imprisonment... If someone can be charged with something of this nature, They Should.

Agreed.

If we want law enforcement to obey the law they have to be subject to the same consequences for breaking it as everybody else is held to...

But unfortunately they aren't, and never will be with any consistency in our current form of sociopolitical system.

Yes, I have sympathy for the position that they're in.. It's a tough job, and it's a fine line to walk..

Perhaps those involved weren't simply nice individuals who innocently fell down on a tough job, perhaps they suffer from a callous mindset that disposes them to treat prisoners inhumanely, ever seriously considered that ugly possibility? Or is that altogether inconceivable to you because your neighbor and uncle are decent guys? I hope that your viewpoint is a bit more complex than that.


But it's not the only tough job, and all jobs, tough or not, are supposed to be done within the bounds of the law, and if they're not the people who broke the law are supposed to get charged..

Good.

Yes, I understand... the biggest offenses usually result in firing... and, though that can be a substantial punishment, it's Really not any where substantial enough for This...

Agreed.

you're an idiot.

Name-caller.
Yo, all of my subliterate conservative criticasters who find perusing and processing the sesquipedalian verbiage of my posts to be such a bothersome brain-taxing chore, I have a new nickname for you. Henceforth you shall be known as Pooh Bears. No, not for the obvious apt reasons, i.e., not because you're full of pooh, and not because of your ursine irritability. Rather, you put me in mind of an A.A. Milne quote, "I am a Bear of Very Little Brain, and long words bother me". Love ya, Pooh Bears.
mattrodstrom
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3/13/2013 5:08:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/13/2013 4:56:45 PM, charleslb wrote:
Name-caller.

yeppers.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
YYW
Posts: 36,252
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3/17/2013 2:44:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/8/2013 5:29:51 AM, royalpaladin wrote:
Stephen Slevin spent 22 months in solitary confinement in a New Mexico jail. During that time, his mental health deteriorated, fungus grew on his skin, and he was forced to pull his own tooth after being denied access to a dentist. A recent settlement with Dona Ana County resulted in Slevin receiving $15.5 million.

Initially, Slevin was awarded $22 million by a jury, but Dona Ana County appealed. The two parties reached an agreement this week. According to NBC News, Slevin's attorney, Matt Coyte, said his client's "mental health has been severely compromised from the time he was in that facility. That continues to be the same. No amount of money will bring back what they took away from him. But it"s nice to be able to get him some money so he can improve where he is in life and move on."

During his 22 months in solitary confinement, Slevin developed bedsores and lost 50 pounds. The ordeal began in 2005 when he was arrested on suspicion of driving under the influence and stealing a car, which he says he borrowed from a friend. Slevin was never brought before a judge nor was he officially convicted of any crime. He said he wrote letters, begging for help with his depression. The before and after photos show the effect the 22 months of neglect had.

"Why they did what they did, I'll never know," Slevin told KOB4-TV. "Walking by me, watching me deteriorate day after day after day, and they did nothing at all to get me help."

Slevin's attorney said his client was battling depression at the time of his arrest. His health woes continue. He was recently diagnosed with lung cancer. He also suffers from post traumatic stress disorder due to his time in jail.

Jess Williams, Dona Ana County's public information director, told NBC News that the jail is making an effort to improve the way it treats prisoners with mental illness.

Disgusting. Whoever (the whole lot of people who failed to afford this man his right to due process) is at fault should be prosecuted. The attorney who appealed on behalf of the state should be disbarred on ethical grounds alone.
Tsar of DDO