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Fort Hood

mongoose
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11/10/2009 7:17:53 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Why haven't we been discussing this?

Discuss.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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11/10/2009 7:26:16 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
comoncents started a thread in the Politics forum a few days ago: http://www.debate.org.... However, only him and one other user talked.

---

The whole event is quite disturbing and sad, obviously. Hasan was a converted Radical Muslim, who waged Jihad on behalf of Allah and fallen arabs and such and such - the usual nonsense. Hasan frequently talked about Islam with his patients (he was a psychologist) and apparently erupted about US occupation in the Middle East during a board meeting earlier in the year. However, the inaction of the FBI is a bit worrying.

http://www.washingtonpost.com...
U.S. intelligence agencies intercepted 10 to 20 e-mails from Hasan to Anwar al-Aulaqi, a U.S. citizen who once was a spiritual leader, or imam, at the suburban Virginia mosque where Hasan had worshiped, said a law enforcement official who spoke about the investigation on condition of anonymity.

Aulaqi responded to Hasan at least twice, according to Rep. Peter Hoekstra (Mich.), the ranking Republican on the House intelligence committee.

"For me, the number of times that this guy tried to reach out to the imam was significant," Hoekstra said. "Al-Qaeda and radical jihadists use the Internet to spread radical jihadism. . . . So how much of [Hasan's] lashing out is a result of . . . his access to radical messages on the Internet and the ability to interact?

"I believe that the responses from Aulaqi were maybe pretty innocent," Hoekstra continued. "But the very fact that he's sent e-mail . . . to this guy and got responses would be quite a concern to me."

The FBI determined that the e-mails did not warrant an investigation, according to the law enforcement official. Investigators said Hasan's e-mails were consistent with the topic of his academic research and involved some social chatter and religious discourse.

Hmm, Hasan is still being interrogated, so I'm sure more info will come out of this eventually.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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11/10/2009 10:38:48 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
Granted that I have no doubts his beliefs were a factor in what he did, but I am curious to know the extent of his mental condition. There are a lot of reports saying that there were telltale signs he was cracking, which makes sense because after all, as a psychologist, he is privy to some of the worst nightmares of soldiers imaginable.
wjmelements
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11/11/2009 5:03:15 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I personally believe that flags have been flying at half staff for a tad too long, but it's not like I would insist they raise them back up again.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
Xer
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11/11/2009 7:06:52 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/11/2009 7:04:05 PM, wjmelements wrote:
lol. The news calls the gunman a "suspect".

CNN and MSNBC are too. I'm sure the rest of them are doing the same...
mongoose
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11/11/2009 7:09:00 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/11/2009 7:04:05 PM, wjmelements wrote:
lol. The news calls the gunman a "suspect".

They also call him a victim of some mental disorder or something. One guy on Fox said something really funny, that if today's media existed towards the end of the civil war, even though Booth was yelling conferderate motto's when he killed Lincoln, he's have been diagnosed mentally ill, and fearful of the war ending and a peacetime actor surplus
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
Volkov
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11/11/2009 7:10:41 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
They have to - it is the etiquette in relation to the judiciary. You don't call the accused "the guy who did it," even if every bit of evidence says that they did it. It is innocent until proven guilty, aye.
Ragnar_Rahl
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11/11/2009 7:11:12 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
I think it's considered to poison the well if they don't, which means the defendant can make a case to throw it out on fair trial grounds or something.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Volkov
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11/11/2009 7:11:29 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/11/2009 7:09:00 PM, mongoose wrote:
They also call him a victim of some mental disorder or something. One guy on Fox said something really funny, that if today's media existed towards the end of the civil war, even though Booth was yelling conferderate motto's when he killed Lincoln, he's have been diagnosed mentally ill, and fearful of the war ending and a peacetime actor surplus

That is probably the farthest thing imaginable from the truth.
mongoose
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11/11/2009 7:12:34 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/11/2009 7:11:29 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 11/11/2009 7:09:00 PM, mongoose wrote:
They also call him a victim of some mental disorder or something. One guy on Fox said something really funny, that if today's media existed towards the end of the civil war, even though Booth was yelling conferderate motto's when he killed Lincoln, he's have been diagnosed mentally ill, and fearful of the war ending and a peacetime actor surplus

That is probably the farthest thing imaginable from the truth.

How so?
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
Volkov
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11/11/2009 7:27:01 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/11/2009 7:12:34 PM, mongoose wrote:
How so?

A guy from Fox said it (joking).

The way this Fox man has described it though seems wholly unfair and deceitful. If that is how he said it, he has framed it in such a way as to claim that the evil leftist media is simply making excuses for criminals. The truth is that the media reports what others tell them, whether it be army doctors, commanders, eye witnesses, experts, or whatever - they don't make up stuff on the spot to make excuses, and if they do, they certainly shouldn't be.

In this case, I have no doubt that someone had told the reporters that Hasan showed signs of mental instability, based on his actions or whatever.
crackofdawn_Jr
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11/12/2009 1:26:52 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
You know what's annoying me, everyone is calling it a "tragedy". A tragedy is more of an accident like a plane crash or a fire, this was not a tragedy. By calling it a tragedy you butter it up and hide what it really is, an attack.
There are three types of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics"
-Mark Twain

"If at first you don't succeed, redefine success"

"Therefore love moderately. Long love doth so.
Too swift arrives as tardy as too slow."
- William Shakespeare

"There must be no majority decisions, but only responsible persons, and the word 'council' must be restored to its original meaning. Surely every man will have advisers by his side, but the decision will be made by one man."
- Adolf Hitler
Volkov
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11/12/2009 1:32:06 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/12/2009 1:26:52 PM, crackofdawn_Jr wrote:
You know what's annoying me, everyone is calling it a "tragedy". A tragedy is more of an accident like a plane crash or a fire, this was not a tragedy. By calling it a tragedy you butter it up and hide what it really is, an attack.

If it was "an attack," pray tell who, other than Hasan, are the attackers?
crackofdawn_Jr
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11/12/2009 1:33:54 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/12/2009 1:32:06 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 11/12/2009 1:26:52 PM, crackofdawn_Jr wrote:
You know what's annoying me, everyone is calling it a "tragedy". A tragedy is more of an accident like a plane crash or a fire, this was not a tragedy. By calling it a tragedy you butter it up and hide what it really is, an attack.

If it was "an attack," pray tell who, other than Hasan, are the attackers?

Why does there need to be somebody beside Hasan as an attacker?
There are three types of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics"
-Mark Twain

"If at first you don't succeed, redefine success"

"Therefore love moderately. Long love doth so.
Too swift arrives as tardy as too slow."
- William Shakespeare

"There must be no majority decisions, but only responsible persons, and the word 'council' must be restored to its original meaning. Surely every man will have advisers by his side, but the decision will be made by one man."
- Adolf Hitler
Volkov
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11/12/2009 1:35:39 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/12/2009 1:33:54 PM, crackofdawn_Jr wrote:
Why does there need to be somebody beside Hasan as an attacker?

Because, to "attack" is to imply a force, a collective - not a singular person or event.
InsertNameHere
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11/12/2009 1:47:18 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/12/2009 1:36:20 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Fort Hood would have made a great COD MW2 level.

Haha. Way to lighten up a serious topic. :P
crackofdawn_Jr
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11/12/2009 3:35:01 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/12/2009 1:35:39 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 11/12/2009 1:33:54 PM, crackofdawn_Jr wrote:
Why does there need to be somebody beside Hasan as an attacker?

Because, to "attack" is to imply a force, a collective - not a singular person or event.

Not really. An attack simply needs to be a purposeful assault on someone or something.

Besides, even if attack isn't the right word, it's a way better word to use than "tragedy".
There are three types of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics"
-Mark Twain

"If at first you don't succeed, redefine success"

"Therefore love moderately. Long love doth so.
Too swift arrives as tardy as too slow."
- William Shakespeare

"There must be no majority decisions, but only responsible persons, and the word 'council' must be restored to its original meaning. Surely every man will have advisers by his side, but the decision will be made by one man."
- Adolf Hitler
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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11/13/2009 7:44:10 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/12/2009 1:26:52 PM, crackofdawn_Jr wrote:
You know what's annoying me, everyone is calling it a "tragedy". A tragedy is more of an accident like a plane crash or a fire, this was not a tragedy. By calling it a tragedy you butter it up and hide what it really is, an attack.

Get over it. The media butters up things ALL the time to convey an agenda. For instance, Fox's news memos to reporters say things like this:

4/08/2004

"Let's refer to the U.S. Marines we see in the foreground as 'sharpshooters,' not snipers, which carries a negative connotation."

In other words, let's ensure that we (Americans) are being portrayed as good guys here. There are countless other examples, but you get the point.

In calling the alleged shooter a "suspect," like others have said they (the news) are upholding his legal right to being presumed innocent. Not only is that a moral high ground but a legal obligation. If the defense attorney can prove that the media was too critical or presumptuous in their assessment, they could easily use it to their advantage in several ways. It's in the best interest of all to be responsible and remain unbiased (I know - god forbid, right?) in calling the shooter a suspect because that's exactly what he is legally at this moment.

Further, what happened IS a tragedy. Just because you think of a tragedy as being accidental doesn't mean that a tragedy is or always has to be accidental. What happened on 9/11 was a tragedy too. An attack is always tragic. The double standard conservatives apply to media is really amusing, imo.
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mattrodstrom
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11/13/2009 8:03:23 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/13/2009 7:37:30 AM, tkubok wrote:
A soldier dies. Why is this a tragedy? Soldiers die all the time. Thats what being a soldier is about.

Wow.

ok. even if you don't think that soldiers losing their life generally is tragic. How can you think that their being killed by a person they all trusted, because he was a crazy son of a, isn't tragic. They weren't fighting in a war. It wasn't in the course of action. They were going about normal, lighthearted, business, when some crazy *sshole decides to blow'em away without warning.

I'm sure that if one of the soldiers who died was your mother, sister, father, brother, etc. you might feel differently about this kind of attack.

The killing was senseless and by someone they trusted. They cannot have been considered free game just because they're military. The killing makes just as much sense as if he shot up people outside of a shopping mall.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
Mirza
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11/13/2009 8:06:07 AM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/13/2009 7:37:30 AM, tkubok wrote:
A soldier dies. Why is this a tragedy? Soldiers die all the time. Thats what being a soldier is about.
You do know how to differentiate between some entirely different situations, don't you?
Xer
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11/13/2009 1:31:08 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/13/2009 7:37:30 AM, tkubok wrote:
A soldier dies. Why is this a tragedy? Soldiers die all the time. Thats what being a soldier is about.

Do you even know what happened...?
Ragnar_Rahl
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11/13/2009 1:37:12 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/13/2009 7:37:30 AM, tkubok wrote:
A soldier dies. Why is this a tragedy? Soldiers die all the time. Thats what being a soldier is about.

No. Killing is what being a soldier is all about. Dying is what being a soldier on the losing team is all about.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
wjmelements
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11/13/2009 1:45:23 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/13/2009 1:37:12 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 11/13/2009 7:37:30 AM, tkubok wrote:
A soldier dies. Why is this a tragedy? Soldiers die all the time. Thats what being a soldier is about.

No. Killing is what being a soldier is all about. Dying is what being a soldier on the losing team is all about.

A reference to the Patton movie.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
crackofdawn_Jr
Posts: 1,350
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11/13/2009 2:28:04 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/13/2009 7:44:10 AM, theLwerd wrote:
At 11/12/2009 1:26:52 PM, crackofdawn_Jr wrote:
You know what's annoying me, everyone is calling it a "tragedy". A tragedy is more of an accident like a plane crash or a fire, this was not a tragedy. By calling it a tragedy you butter it up and hide what it really is, an attack.

Get over it. The media butters up things ALL the time to convey an agenda. For instance, Fox's news memos to reporters say things like this:

4/08/2004

"Let's refer to the U.S. Marines we see in the foreground as 'sharpshooters,' not snipers, which carries a negative connotation."

In other words, let's ensure that we (Americans) are being portrayed as good guys here. There are countless other examples, but you get the point.

In calling the alleged shooter a "suspect," like others have said they (the news) are upholding his legal right to being presumed innocent. Not only is that a moral high ground but a legal obligation. If the defense attorney can prove that the media was too critical or presumptuous in their assessment, they could easily use it to their advantage in several ways. It's in the best interest of all to be responsible and remain unbiased (I know - god forbid, right?) in calling the shooter a suspect because that's exactly what he is legally at this moment.

Further, what happened IS a tragedy. Just because you think of a tragedy as being accidental doesn't mean that a tragedy is or always has to be accidental. What happened on 9/11 was a tragedy too. An attack is always tragic. The double standard conservatives apply to media is really amusing, imo.

Lets not make this a right vs. left thing, it's all the media that does it.
There are three types of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics"
-Mark Twain

"If at first you don't succeed, redefine success"

"Therefore love moderately. Long love doth so.
Too swift arrives as tardy as too slow."
- William Shakespeare

"There must be no majority decisions, but only responsible persons, and the word 'council' must be restored to its original meaning. Surely every man will have advisers by his side, but the decision will be made by one man."
- Adolf Hitler
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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11/13/2009 2:37:02 PM
Posted: 7 years ago
At 11/13/2009 2:28:04 PM, crackofdawn_Jr wrote:

Lets not make this a right vs. left thing, it's all the media that does it.

It's not suppose to be a right vs. left thing. The point is that you're saying the media is being too easy on the alleged killer; my point was that for legal reasons they have to be. Also, to point out that what happened was indeed a tragedy. I understand that everyone wants to be all RAR RAR PHUCK THE TERRORIST here but there's still a legal mandate of being presumed innocent in this country. Not to mention that the media is being fair in asserting that a lot of people are blaming the obsession with being overly PC as being responsible for this... tragedy. No one's denying that it was a blatant and malicious attack; still there's only so much you can say. I was pointing that out and snubbing the silly and ridiculous notion that the media by any means is handling this too "liberally."
President of DDO