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US To Legalize Gay Marriage

FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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3/25/2013 9:20:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Tomorrow and on Wednesday. Maybe. It's been brought before the supreme court, in two parts. Proposition 8 and then DOMA.

I'm surprised I'm not seeing more talk about this. Kind of a landmark ruling.

http://www.cnn.com...
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
philochristos
Posts: 2,614
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3/25/2013 9:28:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/25/2013 9:20:10 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I'm surprised I'm not seeing more talk about this.

So am I. It'll be interesting to see what happens.
"Not to know of what things one should demand demonstration, and of what one should not, argues want of education." ~Aristotle

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~Aristotle
lwmurphy
Posts: 13
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3/26/2013 7:11:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
If the supreme court judges vote in favor of same sex marriage, it should NOT be credible because marriage is a union described in the Bible (God's word), as an institution between a man and a woman. The Bible is where we first hear of marriage (husband AND wife) making marriage a biblical issue of the church. Since it IS a church issue and an institution desribed in God's word as being between a man and woman, and because there is a separation of church and state, the sepreme court judges verdict should be null and void if they are in favor of same sex marrige. Separation of church and state would be thrown in face of the church if the church had an issue with government.
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/26/2013 7:44:54 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 7:11:22 AM, lwmurphy wrote:
If the supreme court judges vote in favor of same sex marriage, it should NOT be credible because marriage is a union described in the Bible (God's word), as an institution between a man and a woman. The Bible is where we first hear of marriage (husband AND wife) making marriage a biblical issue of the church. Since it IS a church issue and an institution desribed in God's word as being between a man and woman, and because there is a separation of church and state, the sepreme court judges verdict should be null and void if they are in favor of same sex marrige. Separation of church and state would be thrown in face of the church if the church had an issue with government.

your church marriage is a religious issue...

being married by a judge is not.

one is a religious ceremony, the other a political arrangement.

You can get Both a religious ceremony, and a political arrangement, but the two are really different, mutually exclusive, things.
One is a holy ceremony done by a priest under god, the other by filing paperwork and getting approved.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
mattrodstrom
Posts: 12,028
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3/26/2013 7:49:21 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 7:44:54 AM, mattrodstrom wrote:
mutually exclusive

maybe that's not the right word... they're two unambiguously distinct things.
"He who does not know how to put his will into things at least puts a meaning into them: that is, he believes there is a will in them already."

Metaphysics:
"The science.. which deals with the fundamental errors of mankind - but as if they were the fundamental truths."
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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3/26/2013 5:14:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
unfortunately your bible marriage can't affect what the courts say
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
lwmurphy
Posts: 13
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3/26/2013 8:00:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Marriage IS biblical. There is no other kind of marriage. The Bible says "for they are no longer two, but one. Let no man separate what God has joined together." God will not join couples of the same sex. Marriage is the sanctification of a man and woman coming together. Same sex marriages are not sanctified. Not joined together by God. Therefore, regardless if a judge, a so called preacher or the pope marries a couple of the same sex... theyre not truly married if the union is not sanctified by God. Remember, the two have become one. Let no man separate what GOD has joined together. No one is married unless the union is sanctified by God. I would like for anyone to share with me anywhere marriage other than the Bible where marriage is mentioned FIRST. You cant ! Marriage IS biblical. Separation of church and state SHOULD be in effect here.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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3/26/2013 8:09:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 8:00:58 PM, lwmurphy wrote:
Marriage IS biblical. There is no other kind of marriage. The Bible says "for they are no longer two, but one. Let no man separate what God has joined together." God will not join couples of the same sex. Marriage is the sanctification of a man and woman coming together. Same sex marriages are not sanctified. Not joined together by God. Therefore, regardless if a judge, a so called preacher or the pope marries a couple of the same sex... theyre not truly married if the union is not sanctified by God. Remember, the two have become one. Let no man separate what GOD has joined together. No one is married unless the union is sanctified by God. I would like for anyone to share with me anywhere marriage other than the Bible where marriage is mentioned FIRST. You cant ! Marriage IS biblical. Separation of church and state SHOULD be in effect here.

And that's why no one married in ancient Sparta, Han China, Rome, Persia, or India. OH WAIT!
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
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3/26/2013 8:13:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 8:09:16 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 3/26/2013 8:00:58 PM, lwmurphy wrote:
Marriage IS biblical. There is no other kind of marriage. The Bible says "for they are no longer two, but one. Let no man separate what God has joined together." God will not join couples of the same sex. Marriage is the sanctification of a man and woman coming together. Same sex marriages are not sanctified. Not joined together by God. Therefore, regardless if a judge, a so called preacher or the pope marries a couple of the same sex... theyre not truly married if the union is not sanctified by God. Remember, the two have become one. Let no man separate what GOD has joined together. No one is married unless the union is sanctified by God. I would like for anyone to share with me anywhere marriage other than the Bible where marriage is mentioned FIRST. You cant ! Marriage IS biblical. Separation of church and state SHOULD be in effect here.

And that's why no one married in ancient Sparta, Han China, Rome, Persia, or India. OH WAIT!

http://weknowmemes.com...
lwmurphy
Posts: 13
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3/26/2013 8:38:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
You need more than that bro. That was pathetic. All that you mentioned was post first marriage. Again...marriage IS biblical. Anyone...ANYONE, share with me where the institution of marriage is mentioned before Bible. You cant! Marriage is sanctified by God! And ONLY God! Not a judge. Not a piece of paper saying "married"! Separation of church and state should be in effect. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE SHOULD BE IN EFFECT!!! THIS IS NOT A GOVERNMENT ISSUE!!!!!
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,286
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3/26/2013 9:02:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 8:38:38 PM, lwmurphy wrote:
You need more than that bro. That was pathetic. All that you mentioned was post first marriage. Again...marriage IS biblical. Anyone...ANYONE, share with me where the institution of marriage is mentioned before Bible. You cant! Marriage is sanctified by God! And ONLY God! Not a judge. Not a piece of paper saying "married"! Separation of church and state should be in effect. SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE SHOULD BE IN EFFECT!!! THIS IS NOT A GOVERNMENT ISSUE!!!!!

... All that I mentioned took place in a civilizations which had either no contact with the Bible or were governed by other religions. As far as I can tell, the number of Jews living under the Han Dynasties was exactly ZERO. Persia was Zoroastrian, Sparta was ruled by the Law of Lycurgus, Rome was Pagan, India was Hindu/Buddhist. By your logic marriage wouldn't exist in places which weren't exposed to the bible, but it does. Argument destroyed. And now you're resorting to semantics: 'but they didn't call it marriage!' (Hint: neither did the Jews. Because they didn't speak English. But it's the same concept to which the word refers.)
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
slo1
Posts: 4,359
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3/26/2013 9:18:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 8:00:58 PM, lwmurphy wrote:
Marriage IS biblical. There is no other kind of marriage. The Bible says "for they are no longer two, but one. Let no man separate what God has joined together." God will not join couples of the same sex. Marriage is the sanctification of a man and woman coming together. Same sex marriages are not sanctified. Not joined together by God. Therefore, regardless if a judge, a so called preacher or the pope marries a couple of the same sex... theyre not truly married if the union is not sanctified by God. Remember, the two have become one. Let no man separate what GOD has joined together. No one is married unless the union is sanctified by God. I would like for anyone to share with me anywhere marriage other than the Bible where marriage is mentioned FIRST. You cant ! Marriage IS biblical. Separation of church and state SHOULD be in effect here.

If you truly understood the separation of state and church you would understand all "marriages" from a state perspective are simply a contract outlining fiscal and child rearing contracts between two people.

You finally let go on allowing divorce for only biblical reasons upon a state marriage. It is time to let go holding "state marriage" to biblical reasons.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
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3/26/2013 9:22:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Frankly, I think marriage shouldn't even be recognized by the state. It's a private matter, and the government doesn't need to be involved in it. For me, gay marriage is much more symbolic than it is practical, because getting married, in my opinion, shouldn't carry any benefits given by the state.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
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3/26/2013 9:22:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 9:22:03 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Frankly, I think marriage shouldn't even be recognized by the state. It's a private matter, and the government doesn't need to be involved in it. For me, gay marriage is much more symbolic than it is practical, because getting married, in my opinion, shouldn't carry any benefits given by the state.

But so long as marriage is recognized by the state, gays ought to be allowed to marry...obviously.
lwmurphy
Posts: 13
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3/26/2013 9:35:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yea well, they didnt marry the same sex! If they did, there wouldnt be millions of them butthead. Read your Bible and you would see the bible was world wide even then. But like today, people then wanted to believe their way of thinking was right. People today believe their way of thinking is right. The Bible says "woe unto those that call good evil and evil good".
slo1
Posts: 4,359
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3/26/2013 9:47:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 9:35:29 PM, lwmurphy wrote:
Yea well, they didnt marry the same sex! If they did, there wouldnt be millions of them butthead. Read your Bible and you would see the bible was world wide even then. But like today, people then wanted to believe their way of thinking was right. People today believe their way of thinking is right. The Bible says "woe unto those that call good evil and evil good".

Yes, because if state marriage allows two people of same gender to marry, I will get a divorce and find a guy to marry because i don't know any better.
slo1
Posts: 4,359
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3/26/2013 9:51:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 9:22:03 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Frankly, I think marriage shouldn't even be recognized by the state. It's a private matter, and the government doesn't need to be involved in it. For me, gay marriage is much more symbolic than it is practical, because getting married, in my opinion, shouldn't carry any benefits given by the state.

And what should happen if two people live together for 15 years with no specified contract and one day one decides to up and leave? Should money just go to who ever had the foresight to put all the accounts in his/her name solely?
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
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3/26/2013 10:16:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 9:51:36 PM, slo1 wrote:
At 3/26/2013 9:22:03 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
Frankly, I think marriage shouldn't even be recognized by the state. It's a private matter, and the government doesn't need to be involved in it. For me, gay marriage is much more symbolic than it is practical, because getting married, in my opinion, shouldn't carry any benefits given by the state.

And what should happen if two people live together for 15 years with no specified contract and one day one decides to up and leave? Should money just go to who ever had the foresight to put all the accounts in his/her name solely?

Why does marriage have to be the only contract? It's perfectly fine allow people to draw up contracts that would cover that.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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3/26/2013 10:17:13 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Actually, the bible doesn't say much about gay marriage.

What it does say is that gays should be stoned to death. Along with women who refuse to marry the men who raped them.

If you want to go back to the traditional marriage of the bible, try polygamy and sex slaves.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
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3/26/2013 10:19:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 10:17:13 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Actually, the bible doesn't say much about gay marriage.

What it does say is that gays should be stoned to death. Along with women who refuse to marry the men who raped them.

If you want to go back to the traditional marriage of the bible, try polygamy and sex slaves.

Those were some crazy.a$$ .times ...
lwmurphy
Posts: 13
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3/26/2013 10:33:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Youre right, marriage is a private matter. It is an institution sanctified between a man, a woman and God. And youre right again....the goverment has no right to to try and redefine marriage. Marriage is plain is daylight in the Bible. Only those who CHOOSE to be blind cannot see. ONLY because it cuts across the grain of what they choose to believe. Gods word says "they who are not with me, are against me". Anyone can believe something is right, and it not be so. Hitler did. The taliban does. America didnt used to have to deal with such immoral matters. Also, America then was a much better place to live. This country for a long time has been on a downhill slide for the worst. We all are expirencing the results of all the bad decisions made the last fifty years. Believe what you want. Everyone has the rigjt to go to hell. Who am I to try and take that away.
Brony
Posts: 21
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3/26/2013 10:33:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 10:17:13 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Actually, the bible doesn't say much about gay marriage.

What it does say is that gays should be stoned to death. Along with women who refuse to marry the men who raped them.

where does it say this?

If you want to go back to the traditional marriage of the bible, try polygamy and sex slaves.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
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3/26/2013 10:38:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 10:33:22 PM, Brony wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:17:13 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Actually, the bible doesn't say much about gay marriage.

What it does say is that gays should be stoned to death. Along with women who refuse to marry the men who raped them.

where does it say this?

If you want to go back to the traditional marriage of the bible, try polygamy and sex slaves.

" "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)"
lwmurphy
Posts: 13
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3/26/2013 10:51:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The Bible doesnt say A N Y TH I N G about gay marriage! As you said....they would have been stoned. Wonder why? You reckon it was wrong? If youre unsure, or maybe you think you are sure about gay marriage, God WILL NOT BEND on this issue. The supreme court may rule gay marriage constutional, but it will never be sanctified by the standards God made clear in His word.
Brony
Posts: 21
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3/26/2013 10:54:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/26/2013 10:38:40 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:33:22 PM, Brony wrote:
At 3/26/2013 10:17:13 PM, FREEDO wrote:
Actually, the bible doesn't say much about gay marriage.

What it does say is that gays should be stoned to death. Along with women who refuse to marry the men who raped them.

where does it say this?

If you want to go back to the traditional marriage of the bible, try polygamy and sex slaves.

" "If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives." (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)"

whoa, what about the part with marrying men who rape you?