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Jodi Arias- Should she get death penalty?

RocketEngineer
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5/25/2013 6:50:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
So Jodi Arias's trial got stalled AGAIN, until the 18th of July.

How many of you think that they should just give Jodi the Death penalty and get it over with??

I don't know how accurate the news on CNN is, but they were saying that if she doesn't get the death penalty, she will be getting 25 year in prison (not to life). I don't understand ho that one works out, but that's what they were saying.

http://news.yahoo.com...
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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5/25/2013 6:53:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't know, she sort of looks attractive enough not to get the death penalty for murder. But she's not a solid 10.
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Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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5/25/2013 6:59:34 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm half hoping she doesn't just to spite Nancy Grace.

As an aside, this case reminds me very much of the musical Chicago.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
muzebreak
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5/25/2013 7:04:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I disagree with the concept of the death penalty. I believe she should get life in prison.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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5/25/2013 7:13:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 6:50:11 PM, RocketEngineer wrote:
So Jodi Arias's trial got stalled AGAIN, until the 18th of July.

How many of you think that they should just give Jodi the Death penalty and get it over with??

The fallacy of capital punishment is that it is quick and efficient.


I don't know how accurate the news on CNN is, but they were saying that if she doesn't get the death penalty, she will be getting 25 year in prison (not to life). I don't understand ho that one works out, but that's what they were saying.

http://news.yahoo.com...
RocketEngineer
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5/25/2013 7:22:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 6:53:00 PM, darkkermit wrote:
I don't know, she sort of looks attractive enough not to get the death penalty for murder. But she's not a solid 10.

Seriously! That's the only reason why I wouldn't want her to die. If she was uglier, I would be like, go for it dude, no questions asked.

But it's weird because she is not like super hot. But you still get an awkward boner when watching her cry in the court room.
RocketEngineer
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5/25/2013 7:24:25 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 7:04:20 PM, muzebreak wrote:
I disagree with the concept of the death penalty. I believe she should get life in prison.

So if someone stabbed your mother 27 times, and shot her, right after taking nude pictures of her, you wouldn't want that person to get death penalty?
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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5/25/2013 7:29:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 7:22:25 PM, RocketEngineer wrote:
At 5/25/2013 6:53:00 PM, darkkermit wrote:
I don't know, she sort of looks attractive enough not to get the death penalty for murder. But she's not a solid 10.

Seriously! That's the only reason why I wouldn't want her to die. If she was uglier, I would be like, go for it dude, no questions asked.

But it's weird because she is not like super hot. But you still get an awkward boner when watching her cry in the court room.

Exactly! You know what's up, no pun intended.
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muzebreak
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5/25/2013 7:34:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 7:24:25 PM, RocketEngineer wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:04:20 PM, muzebreak wrote:
I disagree with the concept of the death penalty. I believe she should get life in prison.

So if someone stabbed your mother 27 times, and shot her, right after taking nude pictures of her, you wouldn't want that person to get death penalty?

I had this same discussion with a friend, except he used my sister. I'll give you the same answer I gave him. Yes, I would want them to get the death penalty. In fact, I would likely try kill them myself, regardless of what might happen at trial. But that would be an emotional response, not a logical one.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
RocketEngineer
Posts: 553
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5/25/2013 7:46:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 7:34:48 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:24:25 PM, RocketEngineer wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:04:20 PM, muzebreak wrote:
I disagree with the concept of the death penalty. I believe she should get life in prison.

So if someone stabbed your mother 27 times, and shot her, right after taking nude pictures of her, you wouldn't want that person to get death penalty?

I had this same discussion with a friend, except he used my sister. I'll give you the same answer I gave him. Yes, I would want them to get the death penalty. In fact, I would likely try kill them myself, regardless of what might happen at trial. But that would be an emotional response, not a logical one.

Good answer. But the principal of the death penalty is largely based on the emotional response mixed with the logical one. Where is logic absent from the death penalty? You are removing someone from society who could potentially cause more harm. Also justice is based off of the emotional response as well.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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5/25/2013 7:53:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 7:24:25 PM, RocketEngineer wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:04:20 PM, muzebreak wrote:
I disagree with the concept of the death penalty. I believe she should get life in prison.

So if someone stabbed your mother 27 times, and shot her, right after taking nude pictures of her, you wouldn't want that person to get death penalty?

No. I wouldn't want that person to get the death penalty. I'd want to kill them myself. Then again, that is revenge, not justice. Killing people already incarcerated and removed from society doesn't serve justice.
drafterman
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5/25/2013 7:53:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 7:46:21 PM, RocketEngineer wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:34:48 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:24:25 PM, RocketEngineer wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:04:20 PM, muzebreak wrote:
I disagree with the concept of the death penalty. I believe she should get life in prison.

So if someone stabbed your mother 27 times, and shot her, right after taking nude pictures of her, you wouldn't want that person to get death penalty?

I had this same discussion with a friend, except he used my sister. I'll give you the same answer I gave him. Yes, I would want them to get the death penalty. In fact, I would likely try kill them myself, regardless of what might happen at trial. But that would be an emotional response, not a logical one.

Good answer. But the principal of the death penalty is largely based on the emotional response mixed with the logical one. Where is logic absent from the death penalty? You are removing someone from society who could potentially cause more harm. Also justice is based off of the emotional response as well.

Life in prison removes them as well.
muzebreak
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5/25/2013 8:01:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 7:46:21 PM, RocketEngineer wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:34:48 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:24:25 PM, RocketEngineer wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:04:20 PM, muzebreak wrote:
I disagree with the concept of the death penalty. I believe she should get life in prison.

So if someone stabbed your mother 27 times, and shot her, right after taking nude pictures of her, you wouldn't want that person to get death penalty?

I had this same discussion with a friend, except he used my sister. I'll give you the same answer I gave him. Yes, I would want them to get the death penalty. In fact, I would likely try kill them myself, regardless of what might happen at trial. But that would be an emotional response, not a logical one.

Good answer. But the principal of the death penalty is largely based on the emotional response mixed with the logical one. Where is logic absent from the death penalty? You are removing someone from society who could potentially cause more harm. Also justice is based off of the emotional response as well.

My logic, in not liking the death penalty. Is that it is unnecessary. We do not need to kill them, and even if we did; the punishment does not fit the crime. It is also inhumane, albeit as are prison systems currently. And finally, because I wouldn't want it done to me. That is essentially my moral guideline.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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5/25/2013 8:09:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
The death penalty, as it is now, is horribly inefficient. If it costs more to execute somebody than to put them into jail for the rest of their lives, then you know that the system is fvcked up. I would support the death penalty if it was fast, quick, and clean, i.e., no appeals, no extra trials, simple (but humane) method of execution (bullet to brain), etc...
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
RocketEngineer
Posts: 553
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5/25/2013 8:11:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 7:53:20 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:24:25 PM, RocketEngineer wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:04:20 PM, muzebreak wrote:
I disagree with the concept of the death penalty. I believe she should get life in prison.

So if someone stabbed your mother 27 times, and shot her, right after taking nude pictures of her, you wouldn't want that person to get death penalty?

No. I wouldn't want that person to get the death penalty. I'd want to kill them myself. Then again, that is revenge, not justice. Killing people already incarcerated and removed from society doesn't serve justice.

What about all the people they could hurt in prison? Also do you want your tax money to go up so the scum of the earth have food and a warm bed?

http://www.talkleft.com...

http://www.talkleft.com...
RocketEngineer
Posts: 553
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5/25/2013 8:13:23 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 8:09:30 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
The death penalty, as it is now, is horribly inefficient. If it costs more to execute somebody than to put them into jail for the rest of their lives, then you know that the system is fvcked up. I would support the death penalty if it was fast, quick, and clean, i.e., no appeals, no extra trials, simple (but humane) method of execution (bullet to brain), etc...

But that is not our money. That money comes from the prosecutors, and defendants.
RocketEngineer
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5/25/2013 8:16:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 8:01:32 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:46:21 PM, RocketEngineer wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:34:48 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:24:25 PM, RocketEngineer wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:04:20 PM, muzebreak wrote:
I disagree with the concept of the death penalty. I believe she should get life in prison.

So if someone stabbed your mother 27 times, and shot her, right after taking nude pictures of her, you wouldn't want that person to get death penalty?

I had this same discussion with a friend, except he used my sister. I'll give you the same answer I gave him. Yes, I would want them to get the death penalty. In fact, I would likely try kill them myself, regardless of what might happen at trial. But that would be an emotional response, not a logical one.

Good answer. But the principal of the death penalty is largely based on the emotional response mixed with the logical one. Where is logic absent from the death penalty? You are removing someone from society who could potentially cause more harm. Also justice is based off of the emotional response as well.

My logic, in not liking the death penalty. Is that it is unnecessary. We do not need to kill them, and even if we did; the punishment does not fit the crime. It is also inhumane, albeit as are prison systems currently. And finally, because I wouldn't want it done to me. That is essentially my moral guideline.

The crime they committed justifying the death penalty is in-humane also. So why not have the same done to them? Most the time the death penalty is more civil anyway (assuming lethal injection, not the electric chair). It being unnecessary, isn't true, given that removing them entirely is a better method than keeping them around to potentially do more harm. And yes harm can be continued in prison. Especially since at some point, some of those people will be coming out of prison.
muzebreak
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5/25/2013 8:17:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 8:13:23 PM, RocketEngineer wrote:
At 5/25/2013 8:09:30 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
The death penalty, as it is now, is horribly inefficient. If it costs more to execute somebody than to put them into jail for the rest of their lives, then you know that the system is fvcked up. I would support the death penalty if it was fast, quick, and clean, i.e., no appeals, no extra trials, simple (but humane) method of execution (bullet to brain), etc...

But that is not our money. That money comes from the prosecutors, and defendants.

You do realize that the accusor in a murder trial is the government, and that a defendant in a murder trial isn't going to pay his own court fees either way, right? How do you think the trials are paid for?
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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5/25/2013 8:18:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If think we should give her the choice, and if she wants to die (which she does) then you give her the death penalty.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
drafterman
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5/25/2013 8:19:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 8:11:31 PM, RocketEngineer wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:53:20 PM, drafterman wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:24:25 PM, RocketEngineer wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:04:20 PM, muzebreak wrote:
I disagree with the concept of the death penalty. I believe she should get life in prison.

So if someone stabbed your mother 27 times, and shot her, right after taking nude pictures of her, you wouldn't want that person to get death penalty?

No. I wouldn't want that person to get the death penalty. I'd want to kill them myself. Then again, that is revenge, not justice. Killing people already incarcerated and removed from society doesn't serve justice.

What about all the people they could hurt in prison?

We don't punish people for things they haven't done yet.

Also do you want your tax money to go up so the scum of the earth have food and a warm bed?

Yes. Yes I do.


http://www.talkleft.com...

http://www.talkleft.com...
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
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5/25/2013 8:23:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 8:16:38 PM, RocketEngineer wrote:
At 5/25/2013 8:01:32 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:46:21 PM, RocketEngineer wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:34:48 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:24:25 PM, RocketEngineer wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:04:20 PM, muzebreak wrote:
I disagree with the concept of the death penalty. I believe she should get life in prison.

So if someone stabbed your mother 27 times, and shot her, right after taking nude pictures of her, you wouldn't want that person to get death penalty?

I had this same discussion with a friend, except he used my sister. I'll give you the same answer I gave him. Yes, I would want them to get the death penalty. In fact, I would likely try kill them myself, regardless of what might happen at trial. But that would be an emotional response, not a logical one.

Good answer. But the principal of the death penalty is largely based on the emotional response mixed with the logical one. Where is logic absent from the death penalty? You are removing someone from society who could potentially cause more harm. Also justice is based off of the emotional response as well.

My logic, in not liking the death penalty. Is that it is unnecessary. We do not need to kill them, and even if we did; the punishment does not fit the crime. It is also inhumane, albeit as are prison systems currently. And finally, because I wouldn't want it done to me. That is essentially my moral guideline.

The crime they committed justifying the death penalty is in-humane also. So why not have the same done to them?

But the punishment isn't fitting the crime. Unless you are going to punish them by killing them in the same way, it cannot possible fit the crime. I kinda think the same about other violent crimes, but I believe the punishment of jail time can be enough, or in some case more than enough.

Most the time the death penalty is more civil anyway (assuming lethal injection, not the electric chair).

No no, you misunderstand. I think killing in any form is in-humane.

It being unnecessary, isn't true, given that removing them entirely is a better method than keeping them around to potentially do more harm.

Well, that assumes that they are around in a fashion in which the can still potentially do harm.

And yes harm can be continued in prison.

That's because our current jail system is crap.

Especially since at some point, some of those people will be coming out of prison.

Assuming they aren't put in there for life with no chance of parole, which is what I suggest for all people found guilty of murder in non-extenuating circumstances, such as self-defence.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
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5/25/2013 8:31:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 8:13:23 PM, RocketEngineer wrote:
At 5/25/2013 8:09:30 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
The death penalty, as it is now, is horribly inefficient. If it costs more to execute somebody than to put them into jail for the rest of their lives, then you know that the system is fvcked up. I would support the death penalty if it was fast, quick, and clean, i.e., no appeals, no extra trials, simple (but humane) method of execution (bullet to brain), etc...

But that is not our money. That money comes from the prosecutors, and defendants.

That's not how it works.

The government both prosecutes, and (in many cases) also defends. This money comes from the taxpayers.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
DakotaKrafick
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5/25/2013 8:45:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 7:46:21 PM, RocketEngineer wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:34:48 PM, muzebreak wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:24:25 PM, RocketEngineer wrote:
At 5/25/2013 7:04:20 PM, muzebreak wrote:
I disagree with the concept of the death penalty. I believe she should get life in prison.

So if someone stabbed your mother 27 times, and shot her, right after taking nude pictures of her, you wouldn't want that person to get death penalty?

I had this same discussion with a friend, except he used my sister. I'll give you the same answer I gave him. Yes, I would want them to get the death penalty. In fact, I would likely try kill them myself, regardless of what might happen at trial. But that would be an emotional response, not a logical one.

Good answer. But the principal of the death penalty is largely based on the emotional response mixed with the logical one. Where is logic absent from the death penalty? You are removing someone from society who could potentially cause more harm. Also justice is based off of the emotional response as well.

Giving them life in prison would also remove them from society. Once a criminal is safely in custody, away from society, what reason do you have to inflict physical harm or death against him, except out of bloodlust?
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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5/25/2013 9:29:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Rocket:

How do you imagine the Death Penalty works? Based on your questions, it seems that you're under the impression that the second a person is sentenced to death they are immediately escorted to a room nearby and a bullet is put between their eyes.
muzebreak
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5/25/2013 9:33:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 9:29:17 PM, drafterman wrote:
Rocket:

How do you imagine the Death Penalty works? Based on your questions, it seems that you're under the impression that the second a person is sentenced to death they are immediately escorted to a room nearby and a bullet is put between their eyes.

I would be more inclined to support that type of death sentence, if it weren't for the chance of a wrongful conviction.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Khaos_Mage
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5/26/2013 12:50:05 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 8:09:30 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
The death penalty, as it is now, is horribly inefficient. If it costs more to execute somebody than to put them into jail for the rest of their lives, then you know that the system is fvcked up. I would support the death penalty if it was fast, quick, and clean, i.e., no appeals, no extra trials, simple (but humane) method of execution (bullet to brain), etc...

I don't believe this stat, and I think you showed me a link before.

There are costs, but these costs already exist. There are already appeal judges and procedures, so I don't see it costing any more money in that regard.

To me, that is like saying an entire prison needs to be built for one prisoner, and all the guards and staff should be attributable to that one prisoner, so, to put one prisoner in prison costs millions of dollars in capital and hundreds of thousands/year.

We don't say this because it ignores the fact there are other prisoners. Just like there are already courts that rule on the automatic appeal.
My work here is, finally, done.
RocketEngineer
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5/26/2013 6:08:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/25/2013 9:29:17 PM, drafterman wrote:
Rocket:

How do you imagine the Death Penalty works? Based on your questions, it seems that you're under the impression that the second a person is sentenced to death they are immediately escorted to a room nearby and a bullet is put between their eyes.

I know that isn't how it works. But I am not sure it is really wasting that much more money that life in prison. They still have to go to court. She's been in court for 4 years, and all that money has been paid in her trial. Now she is in the penalty phase, with even more going in. If they decide to give her life in prison, she will have forced the system to put all that money into her, in addition to the money that will be going into her for her to live in a jail cell for the rest of her life. No matter how you look at it, death penalty is the best option here.
RocketEngineer
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5/26/2013 6:10:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/26/2013 12:50:05 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 5/25/2013 8:09:30 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
The death penalty, as it is now, is horribly inefficient. If it costs more to execute somebody than to put them into jail for the rest of their lives, then you know that the system is fvcked up. I would support the death penalty if it was fast, quick, and clean, i.e., no appeals, no extra trials, simple (but humane) method of execution (bullet to brain), etc...

I don't believe this stat, and I think you showed me a link before.

There are costs, but these costs already exist. There are already appeal judges and procedures, so I don't see it costing any more money in that regard.

To me, that is like saying an entire prison needs to be built for one prisoner, and all the guards and staff should be attributable to that one prisoner, so, to put one prisoner in prison costs millions of dollars in capital and hundreds of thousands/year.

We don't say this because it ignores the fact there are other prisoners. Just like there are already courts that rule on the automatic appeal.

Exactly.
RocketEngineer
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5/26/2013 6:11:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Anyways, this thread is specific to Jodi Arias, not just the death penalty in general. Don't you think you should give it to someone who openly asks for it?
RocketEngineer
Posts: 553
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5/26/2013 6:12:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
And while I certainly didn't expect to be outnumbered on this topic when I made the subject, I would be more than happy to debate any of you on this topic, since my opponent in the other debate closed his account down.