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American Military Response in Syria?

DeFool
Posts: 626
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8/26/2013 11:16:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Top American lawmakers are calling for military action in Syria, in light of a new UN report that has found more evidence for chemical attacks.

What do you think about this?

http://www.washingtonpost.com...

Of interest:
Turkey also supports Hamas.
Iran, and Syria, support Hezbollah.
Hezbollah troops are supporting Assad in Syria.
Hezbollah and Israel are clashing on the Lebanese border.
Lebanon is near civil war.
Jordan, whose population is 60% Palestinian exiles already, are being further destabilized by Syrian refugees; as is Iraq.
I do not know about the Muslim Brotherhood role in Syria on the side of Assad, but Assad's government publicly supported Sisi's using force to put down the Muslim Brotherhood protests in Egypt.
MS is Sunni.
Assad's support is primarily minority Shia.
Russia is owed money by both Iran and Syria for weapons and building Iran'a nuclear reactor, etc. Russia is therefore as biased toward Syria and Iran, as the US is against Syria and Iran out of historic and economic bias.
The Gulf States are on the side of regional stability.
Iran's nuclear ambitions is aimed at them and their economies.
The Gulf states are predominantly Sunni. Iran, is predominately Shia.
Al Qaeda jihadists are on the rebel side in Syria.
Al Qaeda is undeclared, but understood to be exclusively Sunni.

Syria is rightfully a place of high culture, an incredible ancient land that helped to mother all of human civilization. It cannot be regarded as a place that can be forgotten.
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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8/26/2013 4:49:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/26/2013 11:16:14 AM, DeFool wrote:
Top American lawmakers are calling for military action in Syria, in light of a new UN report that has found more evidence for chemical attacks.

What do you think about this?

I think military support should have been provided to the pro-democracy activists back before the civil war had begun. Not much good can come from intervention now.

http://www.washingtonpost.com...

Of interest:
Turkey also supports Hamas.
Iran, and Syria, support Hezbollah.
Hezbollah troops are supporting Assad in Syria.
Hezbollah and Israel are clashing on the Lebanese border.
Lebanon is near civil war.
Jordan, whose population is 60% Palestinian exiles already, are being further destabilized by Syrian refugees; as is Iraq.
I do not know about the Muslim Brotherhood role in Syria on the side of Assad, but Assad's government publicly supported Sisi's using force to put down the Muslim Brotherhood protests in Egypt.
MS is Sunni.
Assad's support is primarily minority Shia.
Russia is owed money by both Iran and Syria for weapons and building Iran'a nuclear reactor, etc. Russia is therefore as biased toward Syria and Iran, as the US is against Syria and Iran out of historic and economic bias.
The Gulf States are on the side of regional stability.
Iran's nuclear ambitions is aimed at them and their economies.
The Gulf states are predominantly Sunni. Iran, is predominately Shia.
Al Qaeda jihadists are on the rebel side in Syria.
Al Qaeda is undeclared, but understood to be exclusively Sunni.

Syria is rightfully a place of high culture, an incredible ancient land that helped to mother all of human civilization. It cannot be regarded as a place that can be forgotten.
"If you claim to value nonviolence and you consume animal products, you need to rethink your position on nonviolence." - Gary Francione

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Oromagi
Posts: 857
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8/27/2013 7:44:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
As an American, my cold-blooded, realpolitik evaluation is that the Syrian Civil War in its current state is advantageous to the US and US interests. The combatants on both sides are virulently anti-American & anti-Israel. Every indication is that Syria is rapidly draining resources on both sides, resources that might otherwise be deployed against US interests. Yes, innocent women and children are getting killed on both sides, but there is little to indicate that even civilians would change their mind about the legitimacy of Israel or Jihad against the West in response to intervention. There is every reason to believe that US intervention would bolster the opposition. Look at Egypt. The Egyptian consensus in 2011 was that the US was propping up Mubarak, even after the US called on Mubarak to leave. Two years later, the same Egyptians believe that the US supported Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood. The Middle East is incapable of rational thought about the US, with good reason given our irrational track record. Anti-Americanism is a constant that wont be improved by intervention on either side. The important exception are the Kurds, who continue to prosper as Iraqi, Turk, and now Syrian control diminishes. The Kurds continue to improve relations and trade with the West. In many ways, a de facto Kurdistan is proving more useful than a recognized state.

Israel's position is clear. They'd like to see both sides fight to extinction, with a slight preference for a rebel win at the end of the day as a blow to Iranian dreams of hegemony. The US would be wise to follow Israel's example. By all means, there should be condemnations of chemical warfare, and humanitarian aid to refugees (cheap at twice the price in terms of propaganda). Containment is a priority and UN intervention in Lebanon might be required. But no feet on the ground in Syria and few or no air strikes. If the rebels need supplies, a few crates of stinger missiles might be appropriate. In general, watching from the sidelines is the smart play here.
SitaraPorDios
Posts: 102
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8/27/2013 7:50:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/26/2013 11:16:14 AM, DeFool wrote:
Top American lawmakers are calling for military action in Syria, in light of a new UN report that has found more evidence for chemical attacks.

What do you think about this?

http://www.washingtonpost.com...

Of interest:
Turkey also supports Hamas.
Iran, and Syria, support Hezbollah.
Hezbollah troops are supporting Assad in Syria.
Hezbollah and Israel are clashing on the Lebanese border.
Lebanon is near civil war.
Jordan, whose population is 60% Palestinian exiles already, are being further destabilized by Syrian refugees; as is Iraq.
I do not know about the Muslim Brotherhood role in Syria on the side of Assad, but Assad's government publicly supported Sisi's using force to put down the Muslim Brotherhood protests in Egypt.
MS is Sunni.
Assad's support is primarily minority Shia.
Russia is owed money by both Iran and Syria for weapons and building Iran'a nuclear reactor, etc. Russia is therefore as biased toward Syria and Iran, as the US is against Syria and Iran out of historic and economic bias.
The Gulf States are on the side of regional stability.
Iran's nuclear ambitions is aimed at them and their economies.
The Gulf states are predominantly Sunni. Iran, is predominately Shia.
Al Qaeda jihadists are on the rebel side in Syria.
Al Qaeda is undeclared, but understood to be exclusively Sunni.

Syria is rightfully a place of high culture, an incredible ancient land that helped to mother all of human civilization. It cannot be regarded as a place that can be forgotten.
America needs to stop policing the world.
Jesus is the only way to be saved.
http://www.biblegateway.com...
Liberalism is the superior philosophy.
If you are going to talk dirty to me, say it in Spanish.
I will respect you if you respect me. Otherwise, no.
LevelWithMe
Posts: 93
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8/27/2013 10:36:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/26/2013 11:16:14 AM, DeFool wrote:
Top American lawmakers are calling for military action in Syria, in light of a new UN report that has found more evidence for chemical attacks.
What do you think about this?

That it's highly likely that the US is about to spend a lot of money, and that you're misinterpreting information. The US response hasn't been "in light of" anything from the UN. The UN hasn't made their full report yet, and US officials have already declared that they won't trust the findings. Read your own article. The entire 5th and 6th paragraphs of the first page.

"The senior administration official blamed the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and suggested that it has tried to foil inspection by holding off the weapons experts for days while it shelled the affected area.

"At this juncture, the belated decision by the regime to grant access to the U.N. team is too late to be credible, including because the evidence available has been significantly corrupted," the official said."

Syria is rightfully a place of high culture, an incredible ancient land that helped to mother all of human civilization. It cannot be regarded as a place that can be forgotten.

What does this have to do with a US military intervention in Syria?
LevelWithMe
Posts: 93
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8/28/2013 12:00:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/27/2013 7:50:09 PM, SitaraPorDios wrote:
America needs to stop policing the world.
I agree, but it's not that simple.
SitaraPorDios
Posts: 102
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8/28/2013 12:02:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/28/2013 12:00:22 AM, LevelWithMe wrote:
At 8/27/2013 7:50:09 PM, SitaraPorDios wrote:
America needs to stop policing the world.
I agree, but it's not that simple.

I know, but I had to say that. For the record, I am an American saying this. Not all of us support fascist policy.
Jesus is the only way to be saved.
http://www.biblegateway.com...
Liberalism is the superior philosophy.
If you are going to talk dirty to me, say it in Spanish.
I will respect you if you respect me. Otherwise, no.
LevelWithMe
Posts: 93
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8/28/2013 12:49:55 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/28/2013 12:02:16 AM, SitaraPorDios wrote:
At 8/28/2013 12:00:22 AM, LevelWithMe wrote:
At 8/27/2013 7:50:09 PM, SitaraPorDios wrote:
America needs to stop policing the world.
I agree, but it's not that simple.

I know, but I had to say that. For the record, I am an American saying this. Not all of us support fascist policy.

I'm an American too. I'm also in the military. I think the majority of what we're doing right now is atrocious, and I think we could put an end to most of our more horrible and immediate-to-short-term policies/problems right now(such as drone bombings, ending our stay/manipulation in certain locations).

But, putting specifics aside, our role as world police isn't going away anytime soon. At least, not without a global shift in politics. Unfortunately, it's just quasi-necessary(which I could go in greater depth about if you want). The current mayhem in the Middle East might actually be able to accomplish that shift, if it does escalate past Syria's boarders, but a shift won't necessarily result in a good outcome. Thus far, Libya, Syria, and Egypt have put spotlights on the failings of how the current system of affairs operates, so it would be nice if we actually learned a lesson from this whole mess. However, it hasn't gotten serious enough(as sad as that is, given how humanely serious the issues are) at this point. Nothing short of regional destabilization would cause any meaningful change.

Beyond that, the only thing I can see changing the international status quo is a crisis in China, a social revolution in America that eliminates a great deal of our dichotomy in politics, or the introduction of Brazil(as the economic power it's shaping up to be) to the world stage.

We're just... really, really unfortunate creatures. I was going to go on, but I was mostly just rambling morbidly at this point, trying to make something poetic out of it all.
LevelWithMe
Posts: 93
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8/28/2013 12:52:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/28/2013 12:49:55 AM, LevelWithMe wrote:
I was going to go on, but I was mostly just rambling morbidly at this point, trying to make something poetic out of it all.
Hell, I already feel like I said nothing of any real worth anyways.
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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8/28/2013 3:54:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
the Geneva rules of warfare do not count civil war use of the banned weapons on it. so any action we and other countries take just gives the middle east one more reason to hate us.
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
drhead
Posts: 1,475
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9/12/2013 9:23:34 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/28/2013 3:54:04 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
the Geneva rules of warfare do not count civil war use of the banned weapons on it. so any action we and other countries take just gives the middle east one more reason to hate us.

Actually, part of them do. Only Common Article 3 applies here, since Syria did not agree to Protocol II (but they did agree to the four conventions and Protocol I). They are still not allowed to murder their own civilians in an armed conflict if they are non-combatants. With weapons of mass destruction, it is difficult not to do this, since you can't selectively target people with a gas bomb. If one civilian dies from it, it's a war crime.

If Russia is going to b!tch to the point where the UN won't do anything, we pretty much have to intervene. Besides, even if Russia wasn't throwing a fit, what would the UN do - send them a strongly worded letter?
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