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Body Scanners

Volkov
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1/5/2010 12:39:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
What do you think of them?

As a person who will be flying soon, I'm a little concerned. These things seem to be a waste of money - effective, sure, but only too a point. There is quite a few saying that these body scanners are more of an annoyance to travellers, than a deterrent for would-be terrorists. They say random checks, regulation of on-board products (such as liquids, tubes, etc.) and being on the look out for the distinct body language, is the best way to combat terrorism. The scanners are sort of an unneeded add-on.

I don't know if I agree, but they do seem to be expensive and rather annoying. It also seems kind of like a knee-jerk reaction, and nothing more.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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1/5/2010 12:48:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
You're against them because they are expensive solely? They're really not that expensive, considering how much we spend on other random sh1t. I am PRO Body Scanners.
Volkov
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1/5/2010 12:50:21 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/5/2010 12:48:42 PM, Nags wrote:
You're against them because they are expensive solely? They're really not that expensive, considering how much we spend on other random sh1t. I am PRO Body Scanners.

No, no - I'm not necessarily against them, and if I were, it wouldn't be because they're simply "expensive." They just seem to be a waste and a nuisance, and if there is more effective ways of dealing with this, why aren't we focusing on that?
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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1/5/2010 12:53:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
They seem to be extremely efficient. What better way is there to scan people? I don't buy it's a nuisance either, can you elaborate?
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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1/5/2010 12:55:46 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
They make sure no one has weapons, which is a start. Full body checks would be unnecessary and a violation of privacy to an extent.

What we need are flight staff capable to deal with an act of terrorism, better connections between aviation authorities and other authorities and people abel to spot terrorists or people susceptible of terrorism. People shouldn't be picked at random. People who are between 18 - 35 should be considered the first ones to check, and males should be given priority. Equality needn't be a factor.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
I-am-a-panda
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1/5/2010 12:56:37 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/5/2010 12:53:37 PM, Nags wrote:
They seem to be extremely efficient. What better way is there to scan people? I don't buy it's a nuisance either, can you elaborate?

Well, to be honest pretty much everytime one goes off it's a watch, a belt or some little accessory like a nail clipper.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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1/5/2010 1:01:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/5/2010 12:56:37 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Well, to be honest pretty much everytime one goes off it's a watch, a belt or some little accessory like a nail clipper.

Well, obviously. Countless people wear said accessories and countless people forget to drop it in the little box so it can go through its' own scanner. That's the individuals' fault, not the body scanners.

I am also PRO profiling. Arabs and the Middle-Easterners are the ones targeting the planes, and they should be profiled. Especially the 17-30 men.
Volkov
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1/5/2010 1:01:39 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
As far as I can tell, we're all going to have to go through these. Its another addition of airport security that will lag the lines more, will add on costs to airports, and therefore airlines and tickets, and will in generally probably not do much to prevent an attack. You can scan people, and it might stop someone, sure, but there are apparently better ways of doing that same thing that don't involve putting in these scanners.

But, as I said, I'm not in opposition, necessarily. I'm just not sure how much more useful this thing will be. The Israeli's don't employ any of these kinds of measures, and they're more threatened than the US ever will be. They got the right strategy, even if it is called 'racial profiling' by some.
Xer
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1/5/2010 1:02:56 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I've yet to hear these "better ways" you are talking about, Volkov. What better way is there to scan people? Profiling and full body scanners seem to be a great start.
Volkov
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1/5/2010 1:03:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/5/2010 1:01:36 PM, Nags wrote:
I am also PRO profiling. Arabs and the Middle-Easterners are the ones targeting the planes, and they should be profiled. Especially the 17-30 men.

That seems to be a good strategy, in all honesty. Open to abuse,sure, but it is considered effective. This guy says it all: http://www.frumforum.com...

However, I wouldn't necessarily say "profiling" is the best way. It should be more focused on behavior, because anyone can be a terrorist, but they all generally have the same behavior.
banker
Posts: 1,370
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1/5/2010 1:04:09 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I would wonder about the health effects the rediation has.

I am against raping others in public,now we have gov agents undressing everyone naked..!

Everytime some scare like the one cuasing this is coming out ,miraclously they have the selution available immidiatly..!

Was this staged,staged to validate this scaning.?

They could have prevanted it like always ,but they did not why is there no investigation..?
the most important source for muslim Arabs:

"And thereafter We [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".

- Qur'an 17:104 -

Any sincere muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.

Ibn Khaldun, one of the most creditable
alyssa_16
Posts: 97
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1/5/2010 1:13:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
no not worth it at all and they don't do there job we have recently had a tourist get through in Houston with a bomb and 3 knifes I think they go off on random people .
you took me back to the time we had had our very first fight the slamming of doors in stead of a kiss good night you stayed out side all night a few years have come and gone and we were sitting at our favorite spot in town and you looked at me got down on one knee your momma cryed and so did my daddy, i said yes !!we went home were we met 10 years ago after all this time you and me WOW!! I never would have guessed i am so excited!!!!!!!!!!
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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1/5/2010 1:16:18 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/5/2010 1:13:30 PM, alyssa_16 wrote:
no not worth it at all and they don't do there job we have recently had a tourist get through in Houston with a bomb and 3 knifes I think they go off on random people .

Err.........news article?
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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1/5/2010 1:18:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
If I go to certain nightclubs, I have to endure a pad down which is actually quite uncomfortable, it certainly strays into sensitive regions. I also have to empty my pockets and allow a bouncer to look inside my wallet. They even go so far as to examine my flip phone in case it is merely hollow to allow for drugs or what not (presumably).

Instead of expensive, high tech and highly invasive scanners which will only be used on a minority of passengers and will probably be easy to circumvent why not a simple pad down of every single person.

Instruct the passengers to wear simple light clothing, lead them into a room for privacy, a simple once over stroke of arms, legs, torso, a brief cup of the buttocks and groin, proke the stomach for a few seconds (for anything illegal that has been swallowed, the person will likely be in pain or very nervous). Sure it is embarrasing and awkward, but a check up for STD's is a lot worse and still nothing to complain about.

You can lead passengers in two by two, and prevent male staff members from checking female passengers etc to prevent acusations (and actual occurences of sexual assault).

Each person could be processed in say, two minutes. Two members of staff per person. One to search, one to supervise/observe. Lets double it to allow for time delay between calling next, and getting them into search booth as well as the idiots who go in wearing five layers, or who are drunk, stupid, or whatever.

So each person takes four minutes, say 250 people on the plan. That's 1000 minutes, ten booths, = 1 hour and 40 minutes.

A relatively small delay, a miniscule amount of money compared to the running costs and profits of airports and airlines.

It's not perfect, but I think it would be pretty effective.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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1/5/2010 1:29:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
No offense Cerebral, but that plan is atrocious. Humans make errors. Looking at a machine is easier than patting someone down. People don't like being patted down. And 1 hour 40 minutes for one plan is terribly long, and would lead to massive delays. The time issue alone makes this plan fail.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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1/5/2010 1:42:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/5/2010 1:29:35 PM, Nags wrote:
No offense Cerebral, but that plan is atrocious. Humans make errors. Looking at a machine is easier than patting someone down.

Fair enough but I already know of at least one way to fool the machine, yes humans make errors, but technology creates complacency.

People don't like being patted down.

Well then they can walk.

And 1 hour 40 minutes for one plan is terribly long, and would lead to massive delays. The time issue alone makes this plan fail.

Not really considering how airports already operate. An additional 1 hour and 40 minutes is nothing, especially if you take it out of the passengers time. Once processed they are allowed into the core of the airport for the boarding process to begin.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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1/5/2010 1:49:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/5/2010 1:45:46 PM, wjmelements wrote:
Haven't tried them; haven't been through one. No opinon.

You've never been on a plane?
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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1/5/2010 1:53:19 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/5/2010 1:42:52 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Fair enough but I already know of at least one way to fool the machine, yes humans make errors, but technology creates complacency.

How do you fool a full body scanner, a metal detector, and a person looking at the monitor?

Well then they can walk.

Pat downs are unreliable. I don't like the civil libertarian argument in airports anyway.

Not really considering how airports already operate. An additional 1 hour and 40 minutes is nothing, especially if you take it out of the passengers time. Once processed they are allowed into the core of the airport for the boarding process to begin.

Nah, it really is a lot of time. Adding that much time onto already long flight processes will piss lots of people off, and just isn't viable.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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1/6/2010 6:54:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/5/2010 1:53:19 PM, Nags wrote:
At 1/5/2010 1:42:52 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Fair enough but I already know of at least one way to fool the machine, yes humans make errors, but technology creates complacency.

How do you fool a full body scanner, a metal detector, and a person looking at the monitor?


Trust me, I know how to fool the body scanner, the metal detector is harder, and the person looking at the monitor does not need to be fooled, I've already tricked the machine it is to the machine he has delegated his thought processes.

Well then they can walk.

Pat downs are unreliable. I don't like the civil libertarian argument in airports anyway.


Then don't employ it.

Not really considering how airports already operate. An additional 1 hour and 40 minutes is nothing, especially if you take it out of the passengers time. Once processed they are allowed into the core of the airport for the boarding process to begin.

Nah, it really is a lot of time. Adding that much time onto already long flight processes will piss lots of people off, and just isn't viable.

Again, you don't take it out of the airports time but the passengers. It is irrelevant if people are pissed off, they can walk.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
deathdebater
Posts: 78
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1/6/2010 7:01:28 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/5/2010 1:04:09 PM, banker wrote:
I would wonder about the health effects the rediation has.

I heard they cause people to spell poorly and end their sentences with an excessive amount of dots and exclamation marks. Kinda scary huh?
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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1/6/2010 12:35:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/6/2010 6:54:29 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Trust me, I know how to fool the body scanner, the metal detector is harder, and the person looking at the monitor does not need to be fooled, I've already tricked the machine it is to the machine he has delegated his thought processes.

Sorry, I can't trust you. Explanation is necessary. :)

Then don't employ it.

I won't, still doesn't change the fact that pat downs are unreliable.

Again, you don't take it out of the airports time but the passengers. It is irrelevant if people are pissed off, they can walk.

What do you mean - "you don't take it out of the airports time but the passengers." Your procedure plus normal procedure equals about 3 hours of waiting, not good.
Cerebral_Narcissist
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1/6/2010 3:42:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/6/2010 12:35:27 PM, Nags wrote:
At 1/6/2010 6:54:29 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Trust me, I know how to fool the body scanner, the metal detector is harder, and the person looking at the monitor does not need to be fooled, I've already tricked the machine it is to the machine he has delegated his thought processes.

Sorry, I can't trust you. Explanation is necessary. :)


I am not comfortable with going into details on a message board. Of course the groups this effects have already figured out how to bypass the scanners but even so. But maybe not the lone terrorists.

Then don't employ it.

I won't, still doesn't change the fact that pat downs are unreliable.


I would prefer unreliable to fatally flawed.

Again, you don't take it out of the airports time but the passengers. It is irrelevant if people are pissed off, they can walk.

What do you mean - "you don't take it out of the airports time but the passengers." Your procedure plus normal procedure equals about 3 hours of waiting, not good.

Say a plane leaves at 10.
According to you the normal procedure takes 1 hour and 20 minutes.
My system apparently raises that to three hours.
This means that the plane must either leave at 11:40, or the passengers must arrive at the airport at 7:00 and the plane leaves at 10 as scheduled.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
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1/6/2010 3:50:48 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/6/2010 3:42:35 PM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I am not comfortable with going into details on a message board. Of course the groups this effects have already figured out how to bypass the scanners but even so. But maybe not the lone terrorists.

Can you message me the info then?

I would prefer unreliable to fatally flawed.

Which is why I said unreliable, lol.

Say a plane leaves at 10.
According to you the normal procedure takes 1 hour and 20 minutes.
My system apparently raises that to three hours.

Ok.

This means that the plane must either leave at 11:40

That wouldn't solve anything. That would mean that all flights would be pushed back 100 minutes, which just puts us in the same situation as before.

or the passengers must arrive at the airport at 7:00 and the plane leaves at 10 as scheduled.

I guess. Full body scanners are more reliable, more efficient, and less intrusive. Coupled with (racial) profiling of shady looking characters, and patdowns of said people, is the best policy.