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New Cold War?

I-am-a-panda
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1/21/2010 12:00:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Russia is boosting it's Baltic fleet in response to the U.S. putting missiles in Poland

http://www.msnbc.msn.com...

I'm not naive enough to think the cold war really ended, I mean obviously the tension is still there somewhat. Could this lead to a chain reaction of events?
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Frodobaggins
Posts: 602
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1/21/2010 12:04:03 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
No, Russia is powerless. Russia is mainly trying to flex its muscles after being out of US control. Same thing goes for them claiming to own Antarctica/blowing the asteroid.

It's just a display of the false power that they have. Their economy is in shambles, we know this.
Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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1/21/2010 12:04:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
ehh, I don't think it is anything to worry about. Russia always likes to seem big and bad whenever they get the chance.
kfc
Kahvan
Posts: 1,339
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1/21/2010 12:04:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 12:00:17 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Russia is boosting it's Baltic fleet in response to the U.S. putting missiles in Poland

http://www.msnbc.msn.com...

I'm not naive enough to think the cold war really ended, I mean obviously the tension is still there somewhat. Could this lead to a chain reaction of events?

I think that is the wrong question to ask at this point. I think that this chain of events has just begun.
Koopin
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1/21/2010 12:04:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 12:04:03 PM, Frodobaggins wrote:
No, Russia is powerless. Russia is mainly trying to flex its muscles after being out of US control. Same thing goes for them claiming to own Antarctica/blowing the asteroid.

It's just a display of the false power that they have. Their economy is in shambles, we know this.

Russia has allies.
kfc
Kahvan
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1/21/2010 12:07:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Russia may be in a very bad condition but it could still cause trouble. Reflecting on my previous quote I think that it has started but also that we could easily win another cold war.
Koopin
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1/21/2010 12:10:04 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 12:07:04 PM, Kahvan wrote:
Russia may be in a very bad condition but it could still cause trouble. Reflecting on my previous quote I think that it has started but also that we could easily win another cold war.

Russia and China are friends.

Germany was a small country during WWI and WWII
kfc
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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1/21/2010 12:10:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 12:04:03 PM, Frodobaggins wrote:
No, Russia is powerless. Russia is mainly trying to flex its muscles after being out of US control.

True.

Same thing goes for them claiming to own Antarctica/blowing the asteroid.

Their claim is to the Arctic, and the blowing-the-asteroid thing was an exercise of academic thought, even noted by the man who said it.

It's just a display of the false power that they have.

Russia has power. I don't know why people say it doesn't. Putin turned the ship Yeltsin was steering around quickly, and now Russia boasts military strength that is pretty enviable for a lot of countries. Maybe not the US, but the is an obvious reason for that. And if I must get into the geopolitical control they have, this will be a long, long thread.

Their economy is in shambles, we know this.

Their economy is growing faster than Europe and America combined. They have control of the pipeline infrastructure. The government has been reigning in the oligarchs with ease. Russia's economy is pretty strongl - just energy based, which is vulnerable, of course. Its powerful, yet vulnerable, so to speak. Which is why the government is starting to diversify.
I-am-a-panda
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1/21/2010 12:14:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 12:10:11 PM, Volkov wrote:

Their economy is in shambles, we know this.

Their economy is growing faster than Europe and America combined. They have control of the pipeline infrastructure. The government has been reigning in the oligarchs with ease. Russia's economy is pretty strongl - just energy based, which is vulnerable, of course. Its powerful, yet vulnerable, so to speak. Which is why the government is starting to diversify.

Add to that the fact they have relatively little debt compared to most other countries.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Kahvan
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1/21/2010 12:15:43 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 12:14:13 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/21/2010 12:10:11 PM, Volkov wrote:

Their economy is in shambles, we know this.

Their economy is growing faster than Europe and America combined. They have control of the pipeline infrastructure. The government has been reigning in the oligarchs with ease. Russia's economy is pretty strong - just energy based, which is vulnerable, of course. Its powerful, yet vulnerable, so to speak. Which is why the government is starting to diversify.

Add to that the fact they have relatively little debt compared to most other countries.

That's a very good point and that's something they can hold over everyones heads! They have almost no debt. Now they just have to swing that alittle bit and it could work out for them.
Volkov
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1/21/2010 12:15:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 12:14:13 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/21/2010 12:10:11 PM, Volkov wrote:

Their economy is in shambles, we know this.

Their economy is growing faster than Europe and America combined. They have control of the pipeline infrastructure. The government has been reigning in the oligarchs with ease. Russia's economy is pretty strongl - just energy based, which is vulnerable, of course. Its powerful, yet vulnerable, so to speak. Which is why the government is starting to diversify.

Add to that the fact they have relatively little debt compared to most other countries.

Oh yes, I forgot - if one good thing came out of Yeltsin, it was his debt-slashing administration abilities.
Frodobaggins
Posts: 602
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1/21/2010 12:16:45 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 12:04:51 PM, Koopin wrote:
Russia has allies.

Yeah weak china an weak iran.

China's so called economy is a dwarf compared to ours and they only attain the picture perfect image they present you buy starving their villagers and only giving money to an elite class in the cities.

Same goes with Iran. They're both shamble allies.
Kahvan
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1/21/2010 12:18:57 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 12:16:45 PM, Frodobaggins wrote:
At 1/21/2010 12:04:51 PM, Koopin wrote:
Russia has allies.

Yeah weak china an weak iran.

China's so called economy is a dwarf compared to ours and they only attain the picture perfect image they present you buy starving their villagers and only giving money to an elite class in the cities.

Same goes with Iran. They're both shamble allies.

We owe china so much money. We are in such a huge freaking debt to China. So "weak" China has leverage on us.
Volkov
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1/21/2010 12:19:23 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 12:16:45 PM, Frodobaggins wrote:
Yeah weak china an weak iran.

China's so called economy is a dwarf compared to ours and they only attain the picture perfect image they present you buy starving their villagers and only giving money to an elite class in the cities.

Same goes with Iran. They're both shamble allies.

Protip: China is not buddy-buddy with Russia. Competition among energy supplies and control in Central Asia has spurred quite a lot of animosity between the two countries. Add to the general discomfort of a strong Russia north of their country, to which the Chinese aren't fond of (lets look back to the 1960's, shall we?) and you have some friction.

Same with Iran. Russia uses Iran to p*ss off others, but they are far from "allies."
Frodobaggins
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1/21/2010 12:19:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 12:10:11 PM, Volkov wrote:

Their economy is in shambles, we know this.

Their economy is growing faster than Europe and America combined. They have control of the pipeline infrastructure. The government has been reigning in the oligarchs with ease. Russia's economy is pretty strongl - just energy based, which is vulnerable, of course. Its powerful, yet vulnerable, so to speak. Which is why the government is starting to diversify.

lol sorry when 90% of your GDP comes from natural resources/military you don't have an economy. Yes their economy is growing faster but don't mistake growth for GDP.
Frodobaggins
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1/21/2010 12:20:50 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 12:18:57 PM, Kahvan wrote:
We owe china so much money. We are in such a huge freaking debt to China. So "weak" China has leverage on us.

Protip: The Federal Reserve exists. We only owe China as much money as we say we owe them.
Frodobaggins
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1/21/2010 12:21:44 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 12:19:23 PM, Volkov wrote:
Same with Iran. Russia uses Iran to p*ss off others, but they are far from "allies."

I was referencing allies vs the US which they all are. I agree they aren't UK and US allies.
Kahvan
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1/21/2010 12:22:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 12:20:50 PM, Frodobaggins wrote:
At 1/21/2010 12:18:57 PM, Kahvan wrote:
We owe china so much money. We are in such a huge freaking debt to China. So "weak" China has leverage on us.

Protip: The Federal Reserve exists. We only owe China as much money as we say we owe them.

So you would screw over the American economy either way is what your saying?
Frodobaggins
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1/21/2010 12:23:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 12:22:27 PM, Kahvan wrote:
So you would screw over the American economy either way is what your saying?

Apparently your lack of understanding of what the Federal Reserve is created this ghastly statement.
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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1/21/2010 12:29:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 12:20:50 PM, Frodobaggins wrote:
At 1/21/2010 12:18:57 PM, Kahvan wrote:
We owe china so much money. We are in such a huge freaking debt to China. So "weak" China has leverage on us.

Protip: The Federal Reserve exists. We only owe China as much money as we say we owe them.

Lol.
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Volkov
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1/21/2010 12:34:22 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 12:19:51 PM, Frodobaggins wrote:
lol sorry when 90% of your GDP comes from natural resources/military you don't have an economy. Yes their economy is growing faster but don't mistake growth for GDP.

I love it when foreign policy n00bs talk.

Russia's energy industry accounts for about 40% of the GDP. This propels Russia's Siberian economy heavily, alongside the many mining investments, but in the heartland west of the Urals, its another story completely. Moscow is a huge center for the financial sector; Volgograd is one of the largest manufacturing centers in the world; St. Petersburg is another large financial sector city, but also drives its economy from its ports and huge arts and culture industries; and inbetween all these large areas, Russia's agriculture sector is almost unrivalled.

At 1/21/2010 12:21:44 PM, Frodobaggins wrote:
I was referencing allies vs the US which they all are. I agree they aren't UK and US allies.

Again - n00b.

"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" line isn't necessarily true with Russia's foreign policy interests. Russia is an ally only to the point where it will benefit them, as is the case with Iran, up until the point where Iran actually gets weapons, which Russia doesn't want. Russia has reasons for opposing restrictions on Iran - they can get Iran to send their fuel to them for processing, thereby giving them an advantage and some business. Restrictions would jeopardize that - until now, anyways, as Iran has rejected it. Expect to see Russia side with the others on the UNSC this year.
Frodobaggins
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1/21/2010 12:36:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 12:34:22 PM, Volkov wrote:
I'm kinda butthurt from the society thread, so I'm going to use the word noob twice and use zeros for the O's because that's how all the tuff guys do it.

lol ok
Volkov
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1/21/2010 12:40:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 12:36:34 PM, Frodobaggins wrote:
At 1/21/2010 12:34:22 PM, Volkov wrote:
I'm kinda butthurt from the society thread, so I'm going to use the word noob twice and use zeros for the O's because that's how all the tuff guys do it.

lol ok

Good response, eh. Not like you're avoiding the argument and not bothering to debate in a "logical" manner that you seem so bent on doing all the time - until, that is, someone schools you in proper knowledge.

Lol, you're a joke, AskBob.
tkubok
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1/21/2010 12:54:36 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 12:36:34 PM, Frodobaggins wrote:
At 1/21/2010 12:34:22 PM, Volkov wrote:
I'm kinda butthurt from the society thread, so I'm going to use the word noob twice and use zeros for the O's because that's how all the tuff guys do it.

lol ok i admit defeat you win

Nice.
Frodobaggins
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1/21/2010 12:57:33 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 12:40:12 PM, Volkov wrote:
At 1/21/2010 12:36:34 PM, Frodobaggins wrote:
At 1/21/2010 12:34:22 PM, Volkov wrote:
I'm kinda butthurt from the society thread, so I'm going to use the word noob twice and use zeros for the O's because that's how all the tuff guys do it.

lol ok

Good response, eh. Not like you're avoiding the argument and not bothering to debate in a "logical" manner

I'd like to know how you can logically debate an opinion. You think they'll side with the US and others to prevent Iran from obtaining nuclear weapons. I'm betting they wont. Both China and Russia have done relatively nothing to stop North Korea, I'm saying they won't. DEBATE THAT!

And you essentially agreed that most of Russia's economy relies upon the use of their natural resources which IMO =/= sturdy economy as I've previously stated.
Volkov
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1/21/2010 1:07:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 12:57:33 PM, Frodobaggins wrote:
I'd like to know how you can logically debate an opinion.

By providing facts and trends to prove your point. You can't debate facts.

Both China and Russia have done relatively nothing to stop North Korea, I'm saying they won't. DEBATE THAT!

What are your reasons for believing that, and we'll get started.

And you essentially agreed that most of Russia's economy relies upon the use of their natural resources which IMO =/= sturdy economy as I've previously stated.

Which as I've said they're now starting to change. However, even if it isn't sturdy, which I agree with, it gives them a helluva lot of money, and the better fact is that it is located mostly out east - western Russia carries most of the weight. If the energy sector were to collapse in Russia, which it never will in our lifetimes, western Russia is still power the economy.
Xer
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1/21/2010 1:27:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
New Cold War?

No. Russia is weak, economically especially. China would probably wreck them in a military war. The US wouldn't have a problem with Russia.

At 1/21/2010 12:24:36 PM, Frodobaggins wrote:
Furthermore look at dept as a % of GDP not in dollar amounts.

Indeed. Also, the current state of Russia (the Russian Federation) is only about 18 years old.
Volkov
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1/21/2010 1:32:11 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 1:27:38 PM, Nags wrote:
No. Russia is weak, economically especially. China would probably wreck them in a military war. The US wouldn't have a problem with Russia.

Actually, China and Russia would be about on par in my reckoning. While the Chinese Army is big, they simply don't have the capacity to wage a war as far away as even Ekaterina. They could threaten the oil supplies in Siberia, and maybe take out Eastern forces, but the west - Russia's heartland - would be safe, and there would be the best launch point for a pushback.

Against the US, Russia wouldn't last terribly long.

Indeed. Also, the current state of Russia (the Russian Federation) is only about 18 years old.

Russia took over the Soviet Union's debt, meaning they inherited that lumbering beast's entire faulty economy as well. It took a decade to cut the debt by droves, and a lot of pain on the part of Russians, incurred on them by Yeltsin.
Xer
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1/21/2010 1:39:35 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 1/21/2010 1:32:11 PM, Volkov wrote:
Actually, China and Russia would be about on par in my reckoning. While the Chinese Army is big, they simply don't have the capacity to wage a war as far away as even Ekaterina. They could threaten the oil supplies in Siberia, and maybe take out Eastern forces, but the west - Russia's heartland - would be safe, and there would be the best launch point for a pushback.

True. China probably has the best army in the world, maybe a little worse than the US's. I'd give the edge to Russia for Navy. For Air Force, it's either a tie or a Russian edge. China has a huge population and is better trained, and it would be mainly a land war. China also has more money and a better economy. I shouldn't of used the word "wrecked" but I think China would win a total war.

Against the US, Russia wouldn't last terribly long.

Mhm.

Russia took over the Soviet Union's debt, meaning they inherited that lumbering beast's entire faulty economy as well. It took a decade to cut the debt by droves, and a lot of pain on the part of Russians, incurred on them by Yeltsin.

Well, the debt was only around 50 billion dollars, so not all that impressive.