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Israel - Increase Aid?

slo1
Posts: 4,314
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5/26/2014 9:37:16 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
We give $3 billion to Israel each year under a 10 year agreement signed in 2007. Israel is lobbying to increase that amount to $3.2 to $3.5 billion a year when it is up at 2017.

Think should increase?

I wouldn't without conditions such as a final definition of what land in the west bank and east Jerusalem that are not willing to give up and a plan to with draw from the parts they don't want.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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5/26/2014 2:29:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
No.
According to the world factbook, Isreal's economy is greater than it's immediate neighbors combined (excluding egypt).

Further, that $3 billion is over 1% of the their economy.
I don't think we should have that much influence, do you?
My work here is, finally, done.
mendel
Posts: 73
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5/28/2014 12:58:43 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/26/2014 9:37:16 AM, slo1 wrote:
We give $3 billion to Israel each year under a 10 year agreement signed in 2007. Israel is lobbying to increase that amount to $3.2 to $3.5 billion a year when it is up at 2017.

Think should increase?

I wouldn't without conditions such as a final definition of what land in the west bank and east Jerusalem that are not willing to give up and a plan to with draw from the parts they don't want.

It's much more complicated then you're making it out to be. US exports to Israel is about 10 billion dollars and Americas imports from Israel stands at over 18 billion dollars (in a year). This aid is not necessarily exactly a hand out as it is in other countries, rather extended loans etc.
http://www.ustr.gov...

There is actually a movement in Israel to stop getting these special favors from america because it makes america feel like it has a say in matters more then it does.

BTW Egypt receives 1 and a half billion dollars a year (that's more like a hand out with about 5 billion in exports to egypt and 1 and a half billion in imports) twww.ustr.gov/countries-regions/europe-middle-east/middle-east/north-africa/egyp
YYW
Posts: 36,252
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5/28/2014 1:07:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/26/2014 9:37:16 AM, slo1 wrote:
We give $3 billion to Israel each year under a 10 year agreement signed in 2007. Israel is lobbying to increase that amount to $3.2 to $3.5 billion a year when it is up at 2017.

Think should increase?

I wouldn't without conditions such as a final definition of what land in the west bank and east Jerusalem that are not willing to give up and a plan to with draw from the parts they don't want.

The reason we give aid to Israel is so that they buy American weapons. It's a de-facto subsidy to the American arms industry, which both directly and indirectly advances our national security interests. The aid to Israel is also a way for us to maintain regional influence, which advances our geopolitical interests.

People who complain about aid of any kind and to any place almost always view aid as the end in itself, which is an error. It's a means to, usually, several ends -all of which advance US interests in direct and indirect ways.
Tsar of DDO
cevvlique
Posts: 12
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7/27/2014 5:16:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/27/2014 7:31:59 AM, kitty54 wrote:
America needs to stop giving money to Israel. They are just occupying and killing Palestinians.

Israel had the land 2000 years before the rise of Islam.
"The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read."
R13; Mark Twain
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
R13; Mark Twain
Haroush
Posts: 1,329
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7/27/2014 9:41:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/28/2014 1:07:20 AM, YYW wrote:
At 5/26/2014 9:37:16 AM, slo1 wrote:
We give $3 billion to Israel each year under a 10 year agreement signed in 2007. Israel is lobbying to increase that amount to $3.2 to $3.5 billion a year when it is up at 2017.

Think should increase?

I wouldn't without conditions such as a final definition of what land in the west bank and east Jerusalem that are not willing to give up and a plan to with draw from the parts they don't want.

The reason we give aid to Israel is so that they buy American weapons. It's a de-facto subsidy to the American arms industry, which both directly and indirectly advances our national security interests. The aid to Israel is also a way for us to maintain regional influence, which advances our geopolitical interests.

People who complain about aid of any kind and to any place almost always view aid as the end in itself, which is an error. It's a means to, usually, several ends -all of which advance US interests in direct and indirect ways.

+1
Haroush
Posts: 1,329
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7/27/2014 9:41:35 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/27/2014 5:16:43 PM, cevvlique wrote:
At 5/27/2014 7:31:59 AM, kitty54 wrote:
America needs to stop giving money to Israel. They are just occupying and killing Palestinians.

Israel had the land 2000 years before the rise of Islam.

+1
Haroush
Posts: 1,329
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7/27/2014 10:03:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I would like to add in there that Hamas was elected into the Palestinian government by their own people which is their own fault. Furthermore, Hamas is a terrorist organization which is against American international interest.

Why should we even be defending Palestine in any way? They chose this outcome. No one else did.

By the way, Hamas has been doing business with I.S.I.S. which presents an even greater threat to the United States. Why?

Many of these terrorist fighting with I.S.I.S. are citizens of European countries that don't require them to have visas to come to the United States..

"Now it"s flashing more frequently and is a lot brighter," he said. "They"ve got a lot of fighters who are from European countries that are visa waiver countries, which means all they have to do is shave their beards and look like normal, responsible civilians and walk into the United States of America without a visa." - See more at: http://pamelageller.com...

http://thehill.com...

So, what will happen when Hamas and I.S.I.S. collaborate against the United States with no need of visas??..
Haroush
Posts: 1,329
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7/27/2014 10:03:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I would like to add in there that Hamas was elected into the Palestinian government by their own people which is their own fault. Furthermore, Hamas is a terrorist organization which is against American international interest.

Why should we even be defending Palestine in any way? They chose this outcome. No one else did.

By the way, Hamas has been doing business with I.S.I.S. which presents an even greater threat to the United States. Why?

Many of these terrorist fighting with I.S.I.S. are citizens of European countries that don't require them to have visas to come to the United States..

"Now it"s flashing more frequently and is a lot brighter," he said. "They"ve got a lot of fighters who are from European countries that are visa waiver countries, which means all they have to do is shave their beards and look like normal, responsible civilians and walk into the United States of America without a visa." - See more at: http://pamelageller.com...

http://thehill.com...

So, what will happen when Hamas and I.S.I.S. collaborate against the United States with no need of visas??..
Haroush
Posts: 1,329
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7/27/2014 10:09:37 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/27/2014 7:31:59 AM, kitty54 wrote:
America needs to stop giving money to Israel. They are just occupying and killing Palestinians.

Do you even know why Palestine is called Palestine?
Austin1061
Posts: 2
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8/13/2014 3:36:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
This picture basically illustrates my viewpoint.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us...

I ask, why should we fund the terrorist actions of Israel? They are killing innocent civilians who have done nothing to them. They use the Hamas as an excuse to kill the citizens of Palestine and the world accepts it for some reason. In reality, Israel is the equivalent of ISIS; unjustly killing people for their beliefs.
Roman137
Posts: 1
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8/13/2014 5:23:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/13/2014 3:36:03 AM, Austin1061 wrote:
This picture basically illustrates my viewpoint.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us...

I ask, why should we fund the terrorist actions of Israel? They are killing innocent civilians who have done nothing to them. They use the Hamas as an excuse to kill the citizens of Palestine and the world accepts it for some reason. In reality, Israel is the equivalent of ISIS; unjustly killing people for their beliefs.

I couldn't agree with you more! Look the news on channel http://www.choose.tv.... After more than four weeks of bombing and bloodshed in the Gaza Strip, some 400,000 children in Gaza are believed to suffer from some form of psychological distress. And only a quarter of them have received help. Psychologists say that it will take months, or in some cases even years, for them to recover. And tell me what is the fault of children living in Gaza?
MichaelColton
Posts: 20
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8/14/2014 4:11:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If America wishes for Israel to continue to be a massive military asset in the Middle East, they should steadily increase aid. If the US wishes to give up that asset, the aid should cease.
Dazz
Posts: 1,163
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8/24/2014 2:21:16 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/27/2014 10:09:37 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 5/27/2014 7:31:59 AM, kitty54 wrote:
America needs to stop giving money to Israel. They are just occupying and killing Palestinians.

Do you even know why Palestine is called Palestine?
Do you know?
Remove the "I want", remainder is the "peace". ~Al-Ghazali~
"This time will also pass", a dose to cure both; the excitement & the grievance. ~Ayaz~
Dazz
Posts: 1,163
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8/24/2014 2:22:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/27/2014 5:16:43 PM, cevvlique wrote:
At 5/27/2014 7:31:59 AM, kitty54 wrote:
America needs to stop giving money to Israel. They are just occupying and killing Palestinians.

Israel had the land 2000 years before the rise of Islam.

So does it fetch any Right?
Remove the "I want", remainder is the "peace". ~Al-Ghazali~
"This time will also pass", a dose to cure both; the excitement & the grievance. ~Ayaz~
ric_23
Posts: 7
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8/24/2014 3:57:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/27/2014 5:16:43 PM, cevvlique wrote:
At 5/27/2014 7:31:59 AM, kitty54 wrote:
America needs to stop giving money to Israel. They are just occupying and killing Palestinians.

Israel had the land 2000 years before the rise of Islam.

thats brilliant. lets kill all the population of north america because truthfully, that land doesnt belong to none of you. while we're at it, lets do the same with the south. maybe we can find an excuse to take europe as well. actually, maybe we kill all humans from the earth as animals have been here longer than us.
Haroush
Posts: 1,329
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8/25/2014 6:03:46 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/24/2014 3:57:05 PM, ric_23 wrote:
At 7/27/2014 5:16:43 PM, cevvlique wrote:
At 5/27/2014 7:31:59 AM, kitty54 wrote:
America needs to stop giving money to Israel. They are just occupying and killing Palestinians.

Israel had the land 2000 years before the rise of Islam.

thats brilliant. lets kill all the population of north america because truthfully, that land doesnt belong to none of you. while we're at it, lets do the same with the south. maybe we can find an excuse to take europe as well. actually, maybe we kill all humans from the earth as animals have been here longer than us.

What a pessimist..
Haroush
Posts: 1,329
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8/25/2014 6:08:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/24/2014 2:21:16 PM, Dazz wrote:
At 7/27/2014 10:09:37 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 5/27/2014 7:31:59 AM, kitty54 wrote:
America needs to stop giving money to Israel. They are just occupying and killing Palestinians.

Do you even know why Palestine is called Palestine?
Do you know?

Yes. Just like you can find out by go searching in my answers under my profile and find the answer.

The land Palestine was named that after the Romans took over Israel's land and named that land after Israel's arch enemy.. The Philistines.
cevvlique
Posts: 12
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8/30/2014 5:45:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/24/2014 3:57:05 PM, ric_23 wrote:
At 7/27/2014 5:16:43 PM, cevvlique wrote:
At 5/27/2014 7:31:59 AM, kitty54 wrote:
America needs to stop giving money to Israel. They are just occupying and killing Palestinians.

Israel had the land 2000 years before the rise of Islam.

thats brilliant. lets kill all the population of north america because truthfully, that land doesnt belong to none of you. while we're at it, lets do the same with the south. maybe we can find an excuse to take europe as well. actually, maybe we kill all humans from the earth as animals have been here longer than us.

All I was argueing was that Israel was occupying the area, they had it.
"The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read."
R13; Mark Twain
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education."
R13; Mark Twain
fazz
Posts: 1,617
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9/7/2014 1:12:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 7/27/2014 9:41:13 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 5/28/2014 1:07:20 AM, YYW wrote:
At 5/26/2014 9:37:16 AM, slo1 wrote:
We give $3 billion to Israel each year under a 10 year agreement signed in 2007. Israel is lobbying to increase that amount to $3.2 to $3.5 billion a year when it is up at 2017.

Think should increase?

I wouldn't without conditions such as a final definition of what land in the west bank and east Jerusalem that are not willing to give up and a plan to with draw from the parts they don't want.

The reason we give aid to Israel is so that they buy American weapons. It's a de-facto subsidy to the American arms industry, which both directly and indirectly advances our national security interests. The aid to Israel is also a way for us to maintain regional influence, which advances our geopolitical interests.

People who complain about aid of any kind and to any place almost always view aid as the end in itself, which is an error. It's a means to, usually, several ends -all of which advance US interests in direct and indirect ways.

+1

-1 because you misunderstood what YYW was saying. Either that or you voted for Bush.
YYW
Posts: 36,252
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9/7/2014 5:24:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 5/26/2014 9:37:16 AM, slo1 wrote:
We give $3 billion to Israel each year under a 10 year agreement signed in 2007. Israel is lobbying to increase that amount to $3.2 to $3.5 billion a year when it is up at 2017.

Think should increase?

I wouldn't without conditions such as a final definition of what land in the west bank and east Jerusalem that are not willing to give up and a plan to with draw from the parts they don't want.

When we talk about increasing aid to Israel, what we're really talking about is throwing back a subsidy to the US defense industry -which, while I'm not entirely opposed to, I see no reason to do so at this time because there is no evidence that Israel cannot sufficiently counter the threats it faces with the resources it presently has.
Tsar of DDO
fazz
Posts: 1,617
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9/7/2014 5:36:13 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/7/2014 5:24:19 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/26/2014 9:37:16 AM, slo1 wrote:
We give $3 billion to Israel each year under a 10 year agreement signed in 2007. Israel is lobbying to increase that amount to $3.2 to $3.5 billion a year when it is up at 2017.

Think should increase?

I wouldn't without conditions such as a final definition of what land in the west bank and east Jerusalem that are not willing to give up and a plan to with draw from the parts they don't want.

When we talk about increasing aid to Israel, what we're really talking about is throwing back a subsidy to the US defense industry -which, while I'm not entirely opposed to, I see no reason to do so at this time because there is no evidence that Israel cannot sufficiently counter the threats it faces with the resources it presently has.

Yes, so Isreal is a wing of the Military-Industrial Complex.

And yes. Not necesseraly a bad thing unless you are a peace-nik.
YYW
Posts: 36,252
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9/7/2014 5:44:00 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/7/2014 5:36:13 PM, fazz wrote:
At 9/7/2014 5:24:19 PM, YYW wrote:
At 5/26/2014 9:37:16 AM, slo1 wrote:
We give $3 billion to Israel each year under a 10 year agreement signed in 2007. Israel is lobbying to increase that amount to $3.2 to $3.5 billion a year when it is up at 2017.

Think should increase?

I wouldn't without conditions such as a final definition of what land in the west bank and east Jerusalem that are not willing to give up and a plan to with draw from the parts they don't want.

When we talk about increasing aid to Israel, what we're really talking about is throwing back a subsidy to the US defense industry -which, while I'm not entirely opposed to, I see no reason to do so at this time because there is no evidence that Israel cannot sufficiently counter the threats it faces with the resources it presently has.

Yes, so Isreal is a wing of the Military-Industrial Complex.

I don't think "wing" quite captures it, but yes, selling guns to Israel is one of the most substantial individual sources of consistent revenue for the US defense industry. This isn't a bad thing, per se, but I'm not going to be comfortable giving Israel more money when the resources it has are clearly sufficient.

And yes. Not necesseraly a bad thing unless you are a peace-nik.

Ah, now that's a bit more complicated. I am highly interested in peace, but the kind of peace I'm interested in is not one where Hamas exists in any kind of functional capacity in Palestine.

Even still, I think Israel has learned from last summer's military conflict that there is a limit to the number of civilians it can kill -even if Israel is not targeting civilians and even if Israel takes measures to avoid killing civilians.

The problem is that where Israel kills civilians, people go to support Hamas, both in Gaza and around the world -which, though disastrously imprudent, is just what happens.

There is another way, and even if it risks war with Iran, it might be worth it to prevent further loss of innocent life.
Tsar of DDO
Haroush
Posts: 1,329
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9/7/2014 6:14:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 9/7/2014 1:12:44 PM, fazz wrote:
At 7/27/2014 9:41:13 PM, Haroush wrote:
At 5/28/2014 1:07:20 AM, YYW wrote:
At 5/26/2014 9:37:16 AM, slo1 wrote:
We give $3 billion to Israel each year under a 10 year agreement signed in 2007. Israel is lobbying to increase that amount to $3.2 to $3.5 billion a year when it is up at 2017.

Think should increase?

I wouldn't without conditions such as a final definition of what land in the west bank and east Jerusalem that are not willing to give up and a plan to with draw from the parts they don't want.

The reason we give aid to Israel is so that they buy American weapons. It's a de-facto subsidy to the American arms industry, which both directly and indirectly advances our national security interests. The aid to Israel is also a way for us to maintain regional influence, which advances our geopolitical interests.

People who complain about aid of any kind and to any place almost always view aid as the end in itself, which is an error. It's a means to, usually, several ends -all of which advance US interests in direct and indirect ways.

+1

-1 because you misunderstood what YYW was saying. Either that or you voted for Bush.

You think I misunderstood what he was saying and who cares if I voted for Bush? So, just because I voted for Bush I can't agree with what a liberal says? That is stupid.