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banning the burqa in France

Zetsubou
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7/14/2010 1:52:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/14/2010 1:35:10 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 7/14/2010 1:16:14 AM, innomen wrote:
http://www.stltoday.com...

A fine and citizenship classes if worn in public.

By a vote of 335-1. I wonder who the 1 was, and was his/her reasons were. It's unfortunate that bans like this can happen.

Democracy,

however... the ultimate signing was by the French parliament(elected aristocrats).
'sup DDO -- july 2013
PoeJoe
Posts: 3,822
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7/14/2010 2:16:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/14/2010 1:35:10 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 7/14/2010 1:16:14 AM, innomen wrote:
http://www.stltoday.com...

A fine and citizenship classes if worn in public.

By a vote of 335-1. I wonder who the 1 was, and was his/her reasons were. It's unfortunate that bans like this can happen.

Agreed.

The burqa is certainly a disgusting symbol of repression. But it's worse to not let people decide for themselves.

Besides, banning the burqa does nothing to solve the root problem: Islam's deep-seated hatred of women.

So, fight misogyny where it lives, but don't cover up the symptoms. Cure the disease.
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innomen
Posts: 10,052
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7/14/2010 2:23:31 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/14/2010 2:16:23 AM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 7/14/2010 1:35:10 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 7/14/2010 1:16:14 AM, innomen wrote:
http://www.stltoday.com...

A fine and citizenship classes if worn in public.

By a vote of 335-1. I wonder who the 1 was, and was his/her reasons were. It's unfortunate that bans like this can happen.

Agreed.

The burqa is certainly a disgusting symbol of repression. But it's worse to not let people decide for themselves.

Besides, banning the burqa does nothing to solve the root problem: Islam's deep-seated hatred of women.

So, fight misogyny where it lives, but don't cover up the symptoms. Cure the disease.

I don't think that is really Sarkozy's intent. It isn't really anti muslim (not an apologist here, i would fight against such a law), but more an effort to retain their cultural integrity - or so they say.
PoeJoe
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7/14/2010 2:33:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/14/2010 2:16:23 AM, PoeJoe wrote:
So, fight misogyny where it lives, but don't cover up the symptoms. Cure the disease.

I just realized that this is unintentional word play.

I suddenly feel smart... accidentally so, but still smart.
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PoeJoe
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7/14/2010 2:35:49 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/14/2010 2:33:03 AM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 7/14/2010 2:16:23 AM, PoeJoe wrote:
So, fight misogyny where it lives, but don't cover up the symptoms. Cure the disease.

I just realized that this is unintentional word play.

I suddenly feel smart... accidentally so, but still smart.

Not that anyone cares or that it's that interesting or anything, but...

To be clear, the "symptoms" and "disease" could refer to misogyny or the burqa itself. The former is straight-forward. In the later, the "burqa" is being covered up, while the "disease" refers to Islam.
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tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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7/14/2010 2:39:21 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I agree. There's being modest and then there's ridiculous.
Facial expression is an important part of communication.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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PoeJoe
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7/14/2010 2:44:22 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/14/2010 2:39:21 AM, tvellalott wrote:
I agree. There's being modest and then there's ridiculous.
Facial expression is an important part of communication.

You say you're an anarchist.

You shouldn't want the government to force people not to wear certain garments.

I mean, I'm not an anarchist, and even I want to limit the government in this regard; I want the government to only force Katy Perry to take off her clothes!
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tvellalott
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7/14/2010 2:52:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/14/2010 2:44:22 AM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 7/14/2010 2:39:21 AM, tvellalott wrote:
I agree. There's being modest and then there's ridiculous.
Facial expression is an important part of communication.

You say you're an anarchist.

You shouldn't want the government to force people not to wear certain garments.

I mean, I'm not an anarchist, and even I want to limit the government in this regard; I want the government to only force Katy Perry to take off her clothes!

I second the Katy Perry thing, she is smokin'.
Also, me being an anarchist has nothing to do with anything.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
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PoeJoe
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7/14/2010 2:54:53 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/14/2010 2:52:19 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 7/14/2010 2:44:22 AM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 7/14/2010 2:39:21 AM, tvellalott wrote:
I agree. There's being modest and then there's ridiculous.
Facial expression is an important part of communication.

You say you're an anarchist.

You shouldn't want the government to force people not to wear certain garments.

I mean, I'm not an anarchist, and even I want to limit the government in this regard; I want the government to only force Katy Perry to take off her clothes!

I second the Katy Perry thing, she is smokin'.
Also, me being an anarchist has nothing to do with anything.

You see, I'm glad we agree that the government should force Kary Perry to take off her clothes, but here's the thing... as an anarchist, you're not supposed to be for the government forcing anybody to do anything. As anarachists and some libertarians would say, that's statist... >_>
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tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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7/14/2010 3:14:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
F!ck that. ^_-
The day we start implementing Collective Anarchy will be the exact same day I start accepting the Burka.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
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PoeJoe
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7/14/2010 3:18:27 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/14/2010 3:14:34 AM, tvellalott wrote:
F!ck that. ^_-
The day we start implementing Collective Anarchy will be the exact same day I start accepting the Burka.

...so, it's like a i-dont-really-believe-this-but-you-know-since-i-cant-have-things-like-i-have-them-at-burger-king-(have-it-your-way)-i-guess-i-will-do-whatever-serves-*MY*-interests-in-a-sort-of-selfish-not-altruistic-non-collective-mindset-which-really-is-a-contradiction-but-watevs sort of position?
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brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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7/14/2010 4:26:18 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
You know how, when you and your mates are drinking outside a seaside pub and an attractive girl in a bikini walks by, you all shout "get your t1ts out for the lads"?

Well, when a Muslim girl in a burqua walks past we all shout "get your face out for the lads" for a bit of a laugh.

Now our French counterparts will have this pleasure denied them - and that's a shame.
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tvellalott
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7/14/2010 4:33:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/14/2010 3:18:27 AM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 7/14/2010 3:14:34 AM, tvellalott wrote:
F!ck that. ^_-
The day we start implementing Collective Anarchy will be the exact same day I start accepting the Burka.

...so, it's like a i-dont-really-believe-this-but-you-know-since-i-cant-have-things-like-i-have-them-at-burger-king-(have-it-your-way)-i-guess-i-will-do-whatever-serves-*MY*-interests-in-a-sort-of-selfish-not-altruistic-non-collective-mindset-which-really-is-a-contradiction-but-watevs sort of position?

Whoa, hold it right there. I don't see why I can't be both anti-burka and anti-establishment.
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
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PoeJoe
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7/14/2010 5:10:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/14/2010 4:33:52 AM, tvellalott wrote:
At 7/14/2010 3:18:27 AM, PoeJoe wrote:
At 7/14/2010 3:14:34 AM, tvellalott wrote:
F!ck that. ^_-
The day we start implementing Collective Anarchy will be the exact same day I start accepting the Burka.

...so, it's like a i-dont-really-believe-this-but-you-know-since-i-cant-have-things-like-i-have-them-at-burger-king-(have-it-your-way)-i-guess-i-will-do-whatever-serves-*MY*-interests-in-a-sort-of-selfish-not-altruistic-non-collective-mindset-which-really-is-a-contradiction-but-watevs sort of position?

Whoa, hold it right there. I don't see why I can't be both anti-burka and anti-establishment.

There is, however, a problem with simultaneously wanting the government to intervene in the social practices of its citizens and being anti-establishment to the point of being an anarchist.
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tvellalott
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7/14/2010 5:16:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I understand now. You're just trying to piss me off so I use my laser eyes on you.. *BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT* -PoeJoe is blasted into oblivion-
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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Cerebral_Narcissist
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7/14/2010 5:38:44 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/14/2010 5:32:29 AM, Mirza wrote:
If it is from free choice, any woman should be able to wear it. All this for democracy.

Liberal rights can not exist under seige. When freedom is abused something has to be done. This is just the thin end of the wedge of anti-Islamic legislation, if you want to slow or even reverse it then you should encourage Muslims to reconcile themselves to western culture.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
brian_eggleston
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7/14/2010 5:48:46 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
France is sending the message to the Islamic world that Muslims are not welcome there.

That's fine by me, there are tens of thousands of fabulously rich Arabs who own properties in Europe, mainly in Paris and London, and who contribute fortunes to those cities' economies.

If, as a result of this, the ones with homes in Paris sell up and move to London and spend their money here instead that will be a very good thing.
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Mirza
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7/14/2010 5:52:29 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/14/2010 5:38:44 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Liberal rights can not exist under seige. When freedom is abused something has to be done. This is just the thin end of the wedge of anti-Islamic legislation, if you want to slow or even reverse it then you should encourage Muslims to reconcile themselves to western culture.
The Western culture is <democracy>. What is democracy? A right to freedom to an extent. And when it comes to clothing, you are supposed to wear whatever you wish with your own choice. You speak about freedom being abused, but it is not abused when it is chosen by free choice.
innomen
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7/14/2010 6:43:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/14/2010 5:32:29 AM, Mirza wrote:
If it is from free choice, any woman should be able to wear it. All this for democracy.

I thought you were pro-authoritarianism?
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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7/14/2010 7:11:07 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/14/2010 1:16:14 AM, innomen wrote:
http://www.stltoday.com...

A fine and citizenship classes if worn in public.:

I realize that Europe is almost in crisis mode over the mass migration of Islamics and their petulant behavior, but that seems too extreme in a free society. It's one thing to say that a Burqa cannot be worn for a photo id, but it's another to ban it from society.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
I-am-a-panda
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7/14/2010 7:18:13 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Does this include men wearing Burqas too? What about Liberal Muslim couples into Femdom?
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
brian_eggleston
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7/14/2010 8:33:32 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/14/2010 7:18:13 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
Does this include men wearing Burqas too? What about Liberal Muslim couples into Femdom?

That's just wrong on so many levels - quite funny though!
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Cerebral_Narcissist
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7/14/2010 8:44:16 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 7/14/2010 5:52:29 AM, Mirza wrote:
At 7/14/2010 5:38:44 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
Liberal rights can not exist under seige. When freedom is abused something has to be done. This is just the thin end of the wedge of anti-Islamic legislation, if you want to slow or even reverse it then you should encourage Muslims to reconcile themselves to western culture.
The Western culture is <democracy>. What is democracy? A right to freedom to an extent. And when it comes to clothing, you are supposed to wear whatever you wish with your own choice. You speak about freedom being abused, but it is not abused when it is chosen by free choice.

Freedom is not being abused by the burqa, indeed it seems as if a sizable number of young Islamic women are 'rebelling' against their liberal Muslims parents to adopt more traditional Islamic garb. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with that. The problem is that hard line, even moderate Islam is not compatible with western civilisation. France does not give a hoot about the burqa, they care about the violent muslim street gangs, bombs, terrorism and colonisation by an alien ideology.

If France, which has accepted Muslims for possibly longer than any other western european democracy has decided to run out of patience then it's only Muslims that can be blamed.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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7/14/2010 12:39:16 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Freedom is not being abused by the burqa, indeed it seems as if a sizable number of young Islamic women are 'rebelling' against their liberal Muslims parents to adopt more traditional Islamic garb. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with that. The problem is that hard line, even moderate Islam is not compatible with western civilisation. France does not give a hoot about the burqa, they care about the violent muslim street gangs, bombs, terrorism and colonisation by an alien ideology.

If France, which has accepted Muslims for possibly longer than any other western european democracy has decided to run out of patience then it's only Muslims that can be blamed.:

F*ck, this is why there needs to be a Post of the Month on this forum! You knocked it out of the park. I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said up until the point of agreeing that the burqa should be outlawed. That seems like a draconian way of being fed up with Muslim extremism.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
InsertNameHere
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7/14/2010 12:49:29 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'm generally against the ban as most people who wear the burqa do so by choice. That is fine although it's not something I would choose to wear. When I communicate with people I like to be able to see who I'm talking to and I expect others would want the same from me. The problem lies in the minority who are actually forced to wear the burqa by a male relative.
lovelife
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7/14/2010 1:31:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Awwws so you can't wear masks and go trick-or-treating in France. I really wanted to, they might give wine with their candy.

It's just ridiculous for there to be a ban on what you can and cannot wear. I'm for you have to wear some kind of clothing in public, sure, but you can't wear certain things....wtf.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave