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EU "Immigrant floood"

brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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8/14/2010 8:40:41 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/14/2010 1:40:16 PM, innomen wrote:
http://www.time.com...

Looks like a general current going westward. I'm okay with it, but i don't live in the EU.

"Hungary decided to grant citizenship to any ethnic Hungarians in Slovakia..."

The Slovaks will be happy with this, especially if they move to Hungary. The minority Hungarian population in the south of Slovakia is a remnant of the communist era social planning policies and the Hungarians are deeply disliked and distrusted by the Slovaks who think of them as criminals and parasites on the state.
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Zeitgeist
Posts: 430
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8/15/2010 12:24:33 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
We should give very serious thought to abandoning the Welfare State as it presently is and replacing it with something based on purchased entitlement much as the case with the state old age pension in which your actual pension is based on the number of years you've paid NI contributions.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/15/2010 8:31:24 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
When the E.U. expanded to include the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, and Slovenia in 2004 — and then Bulgaria and Romania in 2007 — there were fears that a deluge of cheap workers from the east (the so-called "Polish plumbers") would swamp richer E.U. labor markets. That flood, however, turned out to be more like a trickle, and a large number of people who did migrate eventually returned home.

What utter crud.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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8/16/2010 2:13:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/15/2010 8:31:24 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
When the E.U. expanded to include the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, and Slovenia in 2004 — and then Bulgaria and Romania in 2007 — there were fears that a deluge of cheap workers from the east (the so-called "Polish plumbers") would swamp richer E.U. labor markets. That flood, however, turned out to be more like a trickle, and a large number of people who did migrate eventually returned home.

What utter crud.

Any point in particular, or the entire statement?
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
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8/16/2010 3:39:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/15/2010 12:24:33 AM, Zeitgeist wrote:
We should give very serious thought to abandoning the Welfare State as it presently is and replacing it with something based on purchased entitlement much as the case with the state old age pension in which your actual pension is based on the number of years you've paid NI contributions.

And those people who have been unable to make sufficient payments?

Rely on charities, I suppose? The generosity of society is not unlimited and demand for health care, housing, food and heating is likely to quickly outstrip the supply of goodwill.

But this is not a new idea - this is merely the logical extension of the Tories' "Big Society" scam.
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Prox
Posts: 128
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8/16/2010 5:10:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/14/2010 1:40:16 PM, innomen wrote:
http://www.time.com...

Looks like a general current going westward. I'm okay with it, but i don't live in the EU.

I read a book. The book told me that European antipathy against immigrants will hurt them in the long run, economically.

I was reading World Empire, I think. The conclusion was basically: It is unlikely that they'll become a superpower with that attitude, since increased immigration rates = increased chance of innovation, larger work force, etc.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
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8/16/2010 5:54:39 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
The question is how the original EU powers, meaning France, UK, Germany and Italy, didn't know this would happen with their constant push eastward towards the ex-communist countries which still don't have the kind of infrastructure and government support that places like Poland and the Czech Republic do.

Instead of waiting and helping support countries like Romania and Hungary to sustain their own infrastructure and economy before admittance, they are the ones themselves who opened this supposed "flood gate." Their fears are stoked by their own policies, once again.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/16/2010 10:47:25 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/16/2010 2:13:52 AM, innomen wrote:
At 8/15/2010 8:31:24 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
When the E.U. expanded to include the Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, and Slovenia in 2004 — and then Bulgaria and Romania in 2007 — there were fears that a deluge of cheap workers from the east (the so-called "Polish plumbers") would swamp richer E.U. labor markets. That flood, however, turned out to be more like a trickle, and a large number of people who did migrate eventually returned home.

What utter crud.

Any point in particular, or the entire statement?

The British economy was swamped bu foreign workers, these workers did not return home. The claim is utterly false.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/16/2010 10:57:47 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/16/2010 3:39:42 AM, brian_eggleston wrote:
At 8/15/2010 12:24:33 AM, Zeitgeist wrote:
We should give very serious thought to abandoning the Welfare State as it presently is and replacing it with something based on purchased entitlement much as the case with the state old age pension in which your actual pension is based on the number of years you've paid NI contributions.

And those people who have been unable to make sufficient payments?

Rely on charities, I suppose? The generosity of society is not unlimited and demand for health care, housing, food and heating is likely to quickly outstrip the supply of goodwill.

But this is not a new idea - this is merely the logical extension of the Tories' "Big Society" scam.

But government funds are not unlimited either. A lot of the welfare money is spent on people that don't deserve it. Fake 'back pains' or spurious claims of depression, people paid not to work etc.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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8/16/2010 10:59:45 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/16/2010 5:10:26 AM, Prox wrote:
At 8/14/2010 1:40:16 PM, innomen wrote:
http://www.time.com...

Looks like a general current going westward. I'm okay with it, but i don't live in the EU.

I read a book. The book told me that European antipathy against immigrants will hurt them in the long run, economically.


Yea... look at Bradford, look at the French street gangs, look at the Turkish builders in Germany. There is no such antipathy and it is to the detriment of Europe.

I was reading World Empire, I think. The conclusion was basically: It is unlikely that they'll become a superpower with that attitude, since increased immigration rates = increased chance of innovation, larger work force, etc.

More unemployment, more racial violence.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.