Total Posts:40|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Iran opens nuclear power plant

Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/21/2010 9:41:59 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
I am suprised it's not kicked off already.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/21/2010 9:44:58 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/21/2010 9:41:59 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I am suprised it's not kicked off already.

This guy with a killer moustache says Israel has until August 29 to take action http://news.yahoo.com...
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Strikeeagle84015
Posts: 867
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/21/2010 9:47:00 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Maybe Amenijihad was telling the truth and he really does want to use nuclear power for peaceful purposes, and maybe tomorrow when we wake up we will find out that all the pigs have wings and are flying.

But it does require a significantly higher grade uranium, to build weapons than it does to operate a power plant. In addition you need a much rarer type of uranium isotope.
: At 8/17/2010 7:17:56 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
: Hey dawg, i herd you like evangelical trolls so we put a bible thumper in yo bible thumper so you can troll while you troll!

Arguing with an atheist about God is very similar to arguing with a blind man about what the Sistine Chapel looks like
Marilyn Poe

Strikeeagle wrote
The only way I will stop believing in God is if he appeared before me and told me that he did not exist.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/21/2010 9:47:21 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/21/2010 9:44:58 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 8/21/2010 9:41:59 AM, Cerebral_Narcissist wrote:
I am suprised it's not kicked off already.

This guy with a killer moustache says Israel has until August 29 to take action http://news.yahoo.com...

Actually, they're too late seeing as the shipment of uranium is already there.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/21/2010 10:23:36 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Not a big deal, in all honesty. The entire point behind dealing with Iran was to secure either the West or Russia's ability to get those uranium rods, check them over, and take them back after they're spent. They didn't mind the idea of a nuclear power plant, it's the weaponry that concerns everyone.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/21/2010 10:25:59 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/21/2010 10:23:36 AM, Volkov wrote:
Not a big deal, in all honesty. The entire point behind dealing with Iran was to secure either the West or Russia's ability to get those uranium rods, check them over, and take them back after they're spent. They didn't mind the idea of a nuclear power plant, it's the weaponry that concerns everyone.

Do you believe Israel shares that perspective?
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/21/2010 10:29:33 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/21/2010 10:25:59 AM, innomen wrote:
Do you believe Israel shares that perspective?

There's quite a few things I believe about Israel - most of them aren't nice.

However, whether or not they're stupid enough to launch an attack they know will not actually bring production to halt, and will most likely p*ss off the US to a point that they might actually get a kick in the pants, I dunno. Netanyahu is no Sharon. If Avigdor Lieberman was in charge, I think they'd already be embroiled in a war.
Xer
Posts: 7,776
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/21/2010 12:28:27 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/21/2010 9:44:58 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
This guy with a killer moustache says Israel has until August 29 to take action http://news.yahoo.com...

Just looked at the picture and clicked off the article. John Bolton - former UN Ambassador under Bush. He loves war... a lot.
Volkov
Posts: 9,765
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/21/2010 12:34:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/21/2010 12:28:27 PM, Nags wrote:
Just looked at the picture and clicked off the article. John Bolton - former UN Ambassador under Bush. He loves war... a lot.

Even if you hate Obama, at least be glad he didn't get anywhere close to inviting or talking to Bolton.

Why is he declaring such unilateral action, as well? Does this guy want to push Israel to the brink of a very bloody war that it will not win in the long term?
Xer
Posts: 7,776
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/21/2010 12:37:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/21/2010 12:34:06 PM, Volkov wrote:
Why is he declaring such unilateral action, as well? Does this guy want to push Israel to the brink of a very bloody war that it will not win in the long term?

I dunno, he's just nuts. He already made the silly claim that Israel would attack Iran right after the 2008 Presidential election. I think he just likes seeing things blow up.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/23/2010 3:11:07 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/21/2010 9:40:19 AM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com...

So, how long until the war :P?:

Nobody, including Israel, cares if they have the ability to use nuclear technology to use for peaceful means. They only care about the kind that uses it for reasons of savage warfare. While Israel's fears are not unfounded, they better not jump the gun on this one with a preemptive attack... for the sake of the world. I'm pretty sure this is precisely what Iran is hoping for. We'll see who's dumb enough to take the bait.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Xer
Posts: 7,776
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/23/2010 10:49:40 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 10:47:19 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/23/2010 12:16:05 AM, Zeitgeist wrote:
One word.

Plutonium.

Two words.

Destroy Canada.

ftfy
Veridas
Posts: 733
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/23/2010 1:32:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
The time usually required between building a nuclear power plant and building a nuclear bomb is supposed to be something like a decade.

What kind of technology is being employed in this power plant? How modern are it's components and parts? Did the Russians merely, observe, instruct or did they provide their own resources and materials?

If I were in charge I'd be asking myself three questions.

1: What are the odds of Iran's nuclear programme (be it peaceful or malicious backfiring because the nation's first nuclear reactor is going to be run by people who have never worked in a nuclear reactor before and thus are going to be more prone to accidents for a few months, especially considering that Russian technology, though fairly advanced, tends to focus more on economic durability rather than physical durability.

2: If Ahmidinejad truly intends to build a nuclear weapon, he'll have to test them, how does he think he's going to get an immense mushroom could past every other nation on the planet?

3: Does Ahmidinejad expect Israel to sit by and do nothing if he does attempt a bomb considering all his anti-Israel/holocaust denial/genrally anti-semitic comments.

Between America's missile shield technology and the lateness of Ahmidinejad's arrival to the nuclear club (assuming he arrives at all) means that Iran can't possibly expect to successfully launch a nuclear attack on the west using conventional methods. So the only conceivable thing Iran could do with it's nuclear weapon is attack Israel, but Israel already has nuclear weapons and as history has shown, has no problem showing aggression towards those it perceives to be a threat. In other words, Iran has no viable method of winning this battle, even if Ahmidinejad builds a missile of modern quality and power, he will have no conceivable use for it besides deterrence.
What fresh dickery is the internet up to today?
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/23/2010 1:35:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 1:32:06 PM, Veridas wrote:
The time usually required between building a nuclear power plant and building a nuclear bomb is supposed to be something like a decade.

What kind of technology is being employed in this power plant? How modern are it's components and parts? Did the Russians merely, observe, instruct or did they provide their own resources and materials?

If I were in charge I'd be asking myself three questions.

1: What are the odds of Iran's nuclear programme (be it peaceful or malicious backfiring because the nation's first nuclear reactor is going to be run by people who have never worked in a nuclear reactor before and thus are going to be more prone to accidents for a few months, especially considering that Russian technology, though fairly advanced, tends to focus more on economic durability rather than physical durability.

2: If Ahmidinejad truly intends to build a nuclear weapon, he'll have to test them, how does he think he's going to get an immense mushroom could past every other nation on the planet?

3: Does Ahmidinejad expect Israel to sit by and do nothing if he does attempt a bomb considering all his anti-Israel/holocaust denial/genrally anti-semitic comments.

Between America's missile shield technology and the lateness of Ahmidinejad's arrival to the nuclear club (assuming he arrives at all) means that Iran can't possibly expect to successfully launch a nuclear attack on the west using conventional methods. So the only conceivable thing Iran could do with it's nuclear weapon is attack Israel, but Israel already has nuclear weapons and as history has shown, has no problem showing aggression towards those it perceives to be a threat. In other words, Iran has no viable method of winning this battle, even if Ahmidinejad builds a missile of modern quality and power, he will have no conceivable use for it besides deterrence.
Of course he cannot win using nuclear bombs. But he can assure mutual defeat with Israel. That is their ultimate plan if everything goes wrong, I believe.
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/23/2010 3:19:34 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 10:47:19 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/23/2010 12:16:05 AM, Zeitgeist wrote:
One word.

Plutonium.

Two words.

Destroy Britain.

I don't think we are the primary target as we are currently being colonised by Islam, have an ambivalent policy towards Israel, a weak and weakening military and any military secrets that america gives to us quickly reach the open market.

It's probably good thing that Obama is such a racist fool when it comes to Britain, we are a liability to any legitimate war on terror, gain no advantage from the Imperialist war of terror and we need to finally put an end to this fake special relationship. The Bin laden family has a better relationship with the white house than we ever will.
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
Veridas
Posts: 733
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/23/2010 6:36:30 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 10:47:19 AM, Volkov wrote:
At 8/23/2010 12:16:05 AM, Zeitgeist wrote:
One word.

Plutonium.

Two words.

Destroy Britain.

Two more words: F*ck you.

Mirza said: Of course he cannot win using nuclear bombs. But he can assure mutual defeat with Israel. That is their ultimate plan if everything goes wrong, I believe.:

Which begs the question as to why, bigotry is defined as utlimate hate for minimal or nonexistent logical reasoning, bigotry does motivate people to do brutally stupid things, however I don't think anyone's bigotry has ever been solely responsible for the destruction of the country they rule, and while he's certainly no Einstein, I doubt Ahmidinejad will be so courteous as to rid Israel of his own existence even if there was a chance to destroy Israel too.

This, of course, is assuming that the US will let it get that far, the US is clearly willing to share missile shield technology as we know from the little to-and-fro talks about Russian gas and American missile shields in Europe last year. I doubt it would mean very much hassle to America to stick another shield directly over Israel.
What fresh dickery is the internet up to today?
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/24/2010 6:02:19 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/23/2010 6:36:30 PM, Veridas wrote:
Which begs the question as to why, bigotry is defined as utlimate hate for minimal or nonexistent logical reasoning, bigotry does motivate people to do brutally stupid things, however I don't think anyone's bigotry has ever been solely responsible for the destruction of the country they rule, and while he's certainly no Einstein, I doubt Ahmidinejad will be so courteous as to rid Israel of his own existence even if there was a chance to destroy Israel too.
The possibility stands there. They will not have much to lose in the end if they end up being in the last situation of Germany in WWII.

This, of course, is assuming that the US will let it get that far, the US is clearly willing to share missile shield technology as we know from the little to-and-fro talks about Russian gas and American missile shields in Europe last year. I doubt it would mean very much hassle to America to stick another shield directly over Israel.
It depends on how efficient that will be.
Veridas
Posts: 733
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/24/2010 11:01:07 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Mirza said: The possibility stands there.:

Do you really believe that? Ahmidinejad is a coward. Do you really believe he'll end his rule and his life in the glow of a nuclear stike launched because of his actions?

Mirza said: They will not have much to lose in the end if they end up being in the last situation of Germany in WWII.:

A comparison.

In 1945, Germany had, in total, most of Europe, America and the USSR to contend with, it's armies were battered and beaten, it's borders were almost totally surrounded by American, European and Soviet armies, it's cities were being bombed nightly by allied aircraft, it's resources and manpower were all but used up, most of it's political cadre were dead or in hiding, and everything it had fought to gain had been used up or lost.

Iran is in no such position.

Mirza said: It depends on how efficient that will be.:

America has a decade before Iran has a bomb, I'm fairy sure American efficiency or ineffiency is a nonpoint. Besides, the Ground-Based Midcourse Defence, the official name for America's missile shield, isn't as complex as it sounds. You can look at the technology and components required here: http://en.wikipedia.org...
What fresh dickery is the internet up to today?
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/24/2010 11:07:26 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/24/2010 11:01:07 AM, Veridas wrote:
Do you really believe that? Ahmidinejad is a coward. Do you really believe he'll end his rule and his life in the glow of a nuclear stike launched because of his actions?
No, I do not believe that he will do it by having a chance of alternative survival. As I said, if his regime is about to be totaled and he is about to be captured like Saddam Hussein or any other leader, he would rather take an archenemy with him and his nation than be buried alone.

A comparison.

In 1945, Germany had, in total, most of Europe, America and the USSR to contend with, it's armies were battered and beaten, it's borders were almost totally surrounded by American, European and Soviet armies, it's cities were being bombed nightly by allied aircraft, it's resources and manpower were all but used up, most of it's political cadre were dead or in hiding, and everything it had fought to gain had been used up or lost.

Iran is in no such position.
Another misunderstanding. Veridas, I am saying that if they come in the same <ending> as Germany did, there would be no bigger loss for them if they strike with nuclear weapons, even unsuccessfully.

America has a decade before Iran has a bomb, I'm fairy sure American efficiency or ineffiency is a nonpoint. Besides, the Ground-Based Midcourse Defence, the official name for America's missile shield, isn't as complex as it sounds. You can look at the technology and components required here: http://en.wikipedia.org...
It may be efficient, it may not. The possibility that a nuke launched from Iran hits Israel is not very low, even with defensive shields.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/24/2010 11:17:51 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/24/2010 11:16:43 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
Mirza, where would Iran actually hit in Israel?

Tel Aviv, Haifa?
That is not of my knowledge.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/24/2010 11:18:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 8/24/2010 11:16:43 AM, Zetsubou wrote:
Mirza, where would Iran actually hit in Israel?

Tel Aviv, Haifa?
Neither am I saying that they should do it. I am saying that there are possibilities if they have nothing else to do to beat Israel.

My position on nuclear weapons is clear. They should not be developed further.
Zeitgeist
Posts: 430
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/24/2010 11:39:07 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
There's a side to this that I think people are not seeing, that is what the knowledge that the little creep, Ahmidinejad, will have on the assorted scum out to destroy Israel.

It's the logic of the schoolyard. "My mate can kick your backside any time he wants so I'm going to kick you"

Sadam knew this, it was a ploy he was using. It is why it wasn't the presence or otherwise of weapons of mass destruction that was the issue, it was the effect on others of the belief that they existed that was the cause for concern. And why that belief HAD to be destroyed.

Atomic bombs are strange things. They are at their most destructive when they are not used, the moment they are used they change the game absolutely and in the Middle East it would be to the huge disadvantage of the user.

It is why Israel would never use Nuclear weapons in a first strike or in the absence of a WMD strike on Israel, at all.
Veridas
Posts: 733
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/26/2010 4:36:43 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Mirza said: No, I do not believe that he will do it by having a chance of alternative survival. As I said, if his regime is about to be totaled and he is about to be captured like Saddam Hussein or any other leader, he would rather take an archenemy with him and his nation than be buried alone.:

Which implies A: That he'd be dumb enough to start armed conflict he couldn't finish and B: That an invading army wouldn't make a beeline for his nuclear weapons ala the allies against Germany's rocket installations in the first place.

Mirza said: Another misunderstanding. Veridas, I am saying that if they come in the same <ending> as Germany did, there would be no bigger loss for them if they strike with nuclear weapons, even unsuccessfully.:

I didn't say they had to be in that situation, I'm highlighting the contrast between the situation Germany was in and the situation Iran is in, my point was that the contrast is so stark that it's high-impossible to imagine it at the moment.

Mirza said: It may be efficient, it may not. The possibility that a nuke launched from Iran hits Israel is not very low, even with defensive shields.:

You must be joking, that's like saying "the possibility of being in a car crash and dying is very high even with airbags and seatbelts and crumple zones and every other safety feature"
What fresh dickery is the internet up to today?
Zeitgeist
Posts: 430
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/27/2010 12:37:06 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Release into the environment of highly radioactive material, especially a powerful alpha emitter with a chemical characteristic that results in it being taken up by living creatures at a cellular level, or that is in the form of dust that will get into lungs is arguably a far more effective atomic weapon that a thing that goes bang or in the case of the neutron device, fizzle.

The Japanese in conjunction with the Nazis had a project during the closing stages of WW2 in which radioactive material was to be released onto parts of the US to make great swathes of the place uninhabitable.

Read more about this by looking up the story of Die Deutsche Kriegsmarine Unterseeboot U-234, what it's cargo was, and where it was bound and why.

Release of quantities of especially Plutonium (an unavoidable by product from a Uranium fission reactor) into a city would be difficult to detect until it had been done, would be difficult to prove the origin of the material, and would be highly effective.

There are many more weapons of mass destruction than bombs, and there are many other ways of using radioactive materials, especially alpha emitters, than to make a bang and many other means of delivery than by rocket.

There is also the psychological effect of knowing you're being backed up by someone with a nuclear capability that will make you even more willing to conduct atrocities against a common enemy.

Strange things, nuclear bombs, they're of far more overall effectiveness when they're not used than once they have been. But radioactive material, now that's a different kettle of fish.
Rob1Billion
Posts: 1,338
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
8/27/2010 7:47:52 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Our missile shield is a joke. It's like trying to fire a rifle at an incoming bullet to stop it. I've never seen any evidence that the thing worked.
Master P is the end result of capitalism.