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Mass Resignation: Mormon Church, LGBT Rights

bsh1
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11/14/2015 8:27:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
So, hundreds of Mormons plan on resigning from the Church due to the Church's tough new stance on same-sex marriage [http://news.yahoo.com...]. Thoughts? Comments? Reactions?
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TheChristian
Posts: 1,031
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11/14/2015 8:43:58 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/14/2015 8:27:06 PM, bsh1 wrote:
So, hundreds of Mormons plan on resigning from the Church due to the Church's tough new stance on same-sex marriage [http://news.yahoo.com...]. Thoughts? Comments? Reactions?

Finally, a religious group of individuals who openly protest inequality
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,072
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11/25/2015 6:37:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
This is kinda unexpected; I've assumed that the Mormons were the second most Conservative group in America.
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bsh1
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11/25/2015 6:39:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 6:37:02 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
This is kinda unexpected; I've assumed that the Mormons were the second most Conservative group in America.

Harry Reid is a Mormon. You have plenty of liberal-leaning Mormons, even if they do not constitute a majority.
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Blade-of-Truth
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11/29/2015 9:17:41 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/14/2015 8:27:06 PM, bsh1 wrote:
So, hundreds of Mormons plan on resigning from the Church due to the Church's tough new stance on same-sex marriage [http://news.yahoo.com...]. Thoughts? Comments? Reactions?

Like every other major organization, it will eventually bend to the will of societal pressures or risk drifting into obscurity. They did it with African-Americans in the 70's [1], and will eventually loosen up on same-sex marriage once the pressure is really on them. It'll play out with God revealing 'that he is going to allow such things' to their living prophet, a new official declaration will be made, and all will be well until their next majorly outdated policy comes under fire.

This pattern is seen in most major religions, the Mormons are just a tad bit more extreme than the "big 3" of western societies and as such is more resilient to such pressures (as evidenced by the fact that they waited until 1978 to put aside their mark of Cain nonsense).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org...
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Geogeer
Posts: 4,244
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12/1/2015 9:37:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/14/2015 8:27:06 PM, bsh1 wrote:
So, hundreds of Mormons plan on resigning from the Church due to the Church's tough new stance on same-sex marriage [http://news.yahoo.com...]. Thoughts? Comments? Reactions?

At least the Mormons are being open and forthright about what they believe. If it is indeed the truth you are proclaiming, then it doesn't matter what the reaction of those who do not accept what you are teaching.
bsh1
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12/1/2015 9:40:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/1/2015 9:37:42 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/14/2015 8:27:06 PM, bsh1 wrote:
So, hundreds of Mormons plan on resigning from the Church due to the Church's tough new stance on same-sex marriage [http://news.yahoo.com...]. Thoughts? Comments? Reactions?

At least the Mormons are being open and forthright about what they believe. If it is indeed the truth you are proclaiming, then it doesn't matter what the reaction of those who do not accept what you are teaching.

Well, I certainly disagree that being anti-SSM is somehow "the truth." It's more like prejudice veiled as religion.
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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Geogeer
Posts: 4,244
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12/1/2015 9:46:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/1/2015 9:40:30 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/1/2015 9:37:42 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/14/2015 8:27:06 PM, bsh1 wrote:
So, hundreds of Mormons plan on resigning from the Church due to the Church's tough new stance on same-sex marriage [http://news.yahoo.com...]. Thoughts? Comments? Reactions?

At least the Mormons are being open and forthright about what they believe. If it is indeed the truth you are proclaiming, then it doesn't matter what the reaction of those who do not accept what you are teaching.

Well, I certainly disagree that being anti-SSM is somehow "the truth." It's more like prejudice veiled as religion.

If there is no God then yes it would seem to be discrimination. If there is a God and he created us in a certain manner, then it probably isn't discrimination.

Now if there is a God, then the cultures that best adhere to his laws should prosper and survive over the long run. Those that do not should not.
bsh1
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12/1/2015 9:51:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/1/2015 9:46:06 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 12/1/2015 9:40:30 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/1/2015 9:37:42 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/14/2015 8:27:06 PM, bsh1 wrote:
So, hundreds of Mormons plan on resigning from the Church due to the Church's tough new stance on same-sex marriage [http://news.yahoo.com...]. Thoughts? Comments? Reactions?

At least the Mormons are being open and forthright about what they believe. If it is indeed the truth you are proclaiming, then it doesn't matter what the reaction of those who do not accept what you are teaching.

Well, I certainly disagree that being anti-SSM is somehow "the truth." It's more like prejudice veiled as religion.

If there is no God then yes it would seem to be discrimination. If there is a God and he created us in a certain manner, then it probably isn't discrimination.

That implies that gay people have a choice in being gay (wrong), and it could justify ANY kind of discrimination. Tell me how these claims differ:

It is okay to enslave nonbelievers, because my God tells me it's okay.
It is okay to mistreat gay people, because my God tells me it's okay.

Now if there is a God, then the cultures that best adhere to his laws should prosper and survive over the long run. Those that do not should not.

Social Darwinism? That is just nonsense. Moreover, Christian, God-fearing people who stick closely to the Bible aren't doing better.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Geogeer
Posts: 4,244
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12/1/2015 10:43:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/1/2015 9:51:21 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/1/2015 9:46:06 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 12/1/2015 9:40:30 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/1/2015 9:37:42 PM, Geogeer wrote:
At 11/14/2015 8:27:06 PM, bsh1 wrote:
So, hundreds of Mormons plan on resigning from the Church due to the Church's tough new stance on same-sex marriage [http://news.yahoo.com...]. Thoughts? Comments? Reactions?

At least the Mormons are being open and forthright about what they believe. If it is indeed the truth you are proclaiming, then it doesn't matter what the reaction of those who do not accept what you are teaching.

Well, I certainly disagree that being anti-SSM is somehow "the truth." It's more like prejudice veiled as religion.

If there is no God then yes it would seem to be discrimination. If there is a God and he created us in a certain manner, then it probably isn't discrimination.

That implies that gay people have a choice in being gay (wrong), and it could justify ANY kind of discrimination. Tell me how these claims differ:

Just because a desire exists doesn't make it voluntary, nor does it make it just.

It is okay to enslave nonbelievers, because my God tells me it's okay.
It is okay to mistreat gay people, because my God tells me it's okay.

The word mistreat implies that there is an acceptable way to treat people. This would be based on God having created fundamental rights within a moral framework. If the actions of Gays is outside of this framework then it is perfect acceptable for a society not to accept these actions as morally acceptable or even neutral.

The concept of justice would conclude that there is an acceptable and an unacceptable response to something that is not moral.

Now if there is a God, then the cultures that best adhere to his laws should prosper and survive over the long run. Those that do not should not.

Social Darwinism? That is just nonsense. Moreover, Christian, God-fearing people who stick closely to the Bible aren't doing better.

Not social Darwinism. If God has created the world and us with purpose and objective morals. Then by definition societies that follow these moral precepts will be stronger than those that do not. This is right from the bible:

"But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you."

Christian people exist within the modern post-Christian culture. As such they are subject to the general cultural effects that exist. However, I would argue that those who follow the traditional Christian morality will on average provide more stable and loving lives.

To argue otherwise you're going to have to argue that it is just as good for children to be brought up in single parent or divorced families.
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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12/1/2015 10:58:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/29/2015 9:17:41 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 11/14/2015 8:27:06 PM, bsh1 wrote:
So, hundreds of Mormons plan on resigning from the Church due to the Church's tough new stance on same-sex marriage [http://news.yahoo.com...]. Thoughts? Comments? Reactions?

Like every other major organization, it will eventually bend to the will of societal pressures or risk drifting into obscurity. They did it with African-Americans in the 70's [1], and will eventually loosen up on same-sex marriage once the pressure is really on them. It'll play out with God revealing 'that he is going to allow such things' to their living prophet, a new official declaration will be made, and all will be well until their next majorly outdated policy comes under fire.

Except the only churches that are actually growing are evangelical ones; the ones that have embraced gay marriage have experienced rapid membership declines.

This pattern is seen in most major religions, the Mormons are just a tad bit more extreme than the "big 3" of western societies and as such is more resilient to such pressures (as evidenced by the fact that they waited until 1978 to put aside their mark of Cain nonsense).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org...
TN05
Posts: 4,492
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12/1/2015 11:01:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
As a side, if the fact your church doesn't agree with how you live your life makes them incompatible with you, you probably weren't that invested with them in the first place.
Blade-of-Truth
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12/2/2015 12:20:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/1/2015 10:58:47 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 11/29/2015 9:17:41 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 11/14/2015 8:27:06 PM, bsh1 wrote:
So, hundreds of Mormons plan on resigning from the Church due to the Church's tough new stance on same-sex marriage [http://news.yahoo.com...]. Thoughts? Comments? Reactions?

Like every other major organization, it will eventually bend to the will of societal pressures or risk drifting into obscurity. They did it with African-Americans in the 70's [1], and will eventually loosen up on same-sex marriage once the pressure is really on them. It'll play out with God revealing 'that he is going to allow such things' to their living prophet, a new official declaration will be made, and all will be well until their next majorly outdated policy comes under fire.

Except the only churches that are actually growing are evangelical ones; the ones that have embraced gay marriage have experienced rapid membership declines.

Yeah, and if Mormons did it'd be an even greater rate of membership decline. Eventually societal values and the values of Mormons will come to a boiling point though, just as it did in 1978 with the African-Americans being granted the right to achieve priesthood. The fact that their god suddenly revealed that blacks are now eligible for priesthood was one of the biggest turn-offs for me. Not because I'm racist, but because it undermined all sense of absolute authority that the church doctrine held before that point. I think their elders made the right call now, but I also think that down the road if the pressure continues to build they'll bend to survive.

I do think we are witnessing an interesting time in which religious values are clashing with societal ones on a nationwide scale with a worldwide audience. It'd more accurate to say it's really just conservative christian values clashing with the liberal agenda, but still an interesting time indeed.

This pattern is seen in most major religions, the Mormons are just a tad bit more extreme than the "big 3" of western societies and as such is more resilient to such pressures (as evidenced by the fact that they waited until 1978 to put aside their mark of Cain nonsense).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org...
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TN05
Posts: 4,492
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12/2/2015 1:03:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 12/2/2015 12:20:32 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 12/1/2015 10:58:47 PM, TN05 wrote:
At 11/29/2015 9:17:41 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 11/14/2015 8:27:06 PM, bsh1 wrote:
So, hundreds of Mormons plan on resigning from the Church due to the Church's tough new stance on same-sex marriage [http://news.yahoo.com...]. Thoughts? Comments? Reactions?

Like every other major organization, it will eventually bend to the will of societal pressures or risk drifting into obscurity. They did it with African-Americans in the 70's [1], and will eventually loosen up on same-sex marriage once the pressure is really on them. It'll play out with God revealing 'that he is going to allow such things' to their living prophet, a new official declaration will be made, and all will be well until their next majorly outdated policy comes under fire.

Except the only churches that are actually growing are evangelical ones; the ones that have embraced gay marriage have experienced rapid membership declines.

Yeah, and if Mormons did it'd be an even greater rate of membership decline. Eventually societal values and the values of Mormons will come to a boiling point though, just as it did in 1978 with the African-Americans being granted the right to achieve priesthood. The fact that their god suddenly revealed that blacks are now eligible for priesthood was one of the biggest turn-offs for me. Not because I'm racist, but because it undermined all sense of absolute authority that the church doctrine held before that point. I think their elders made the right call now, but I also think that down the road if the pressure continues to build they'll bend to survive.

Oh, I'm not saying the Mormons have any sort of actual solid doctrine. They have mechanisms in place to adjust virtually anything. It's not like the Catholics (who are hamstrung by their claim to always be right, which precludes ever changing their view on anything lest they admit to not always being right) - they can change their mind. I doubt they will because Mormons are so overwhelmingly conservative, but they can do it.

I do think we are witnessing an interesting time in which religious values are clashing with societal ones on a nationwide scale with a worldwide audience. It'd more accurate to say it's really just conservative christian values clashing with the liberal agenda, but still an interesting time indeed.

That's the problem, though. Rather than abandoning tenets of faith in favor of titular religion, most modern liberals are cutting the sh*t and not pretending to be religious. The Episcopals don't have an audience anymore because liberal religion does not sell anymore. The Southern Baptists are growing because conservative religion does.

This pattern is seen in most major religions, the Mormons are just a tad bit more extreme than the "big 3" of western societies and as such is more resilient to such pressures (as evidenced by the fact that they waited until 1978 to put aside their mark of Cain nonsense).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org...