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Is this what you want?

000ike
Posts: 11,196
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1/4/2016 4:41:52 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
http://www.nytimes.com...

In Texas, how is one to know when to call the police now? How is one to know the intentions of a person that walks into a store with a rifle strapped to his back? In the event that there is a shooting and an armed citizen is present, how is another armed citizen in the vicinity to know who is the criminal and who the vigilante?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,251
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1/4/2016 7:08:28 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
If I were a private store owner I'd ban him and people like him from entering, if only because the sight of a man with an AK-47 would be unnerving to other customers. People should be permitted to own guns, but the second amendment doesn't protect someone's right to carry guns out in the open wherever they go, especially assault riffles which are notoriously hard to aim. The government isn't even required to allow guns on governmental property, such as courthouses, schools, or even roads.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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1/4/2016 3:04:46 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/4/2016 4:41:52 AM, 000ike wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com...

In Texas, how is one to know when to call the police now? How is one to know the intentions of a person that walks into a store with a rifle strapped to his back? In the event that there is a shooting and an armed citizen is present, how is another armed citizen in the vicinity to know who is the criminal and who the vigilante?

I don't know why they think I would be grateful for them carrying their gun around - you know - just in case of their fantasy scenario coming true.

That is often the case when talking with carry supporters. They want some sort of thank-you from me for "protecting" me if the sh1t starts.
kevin24018
Posts: 1,913
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1/4/2016 4:32:36 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/4/2016 4:41:52 AM, 000ike wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com...

In Texas, how is one to know when to call the police now? How is one to know the intentions of a person that walks into a store with a rifle strapped to his back? In the event that there is a shooting and an armed citizen is present, how is another armed citizen in the vicinity to know who is the criminal and who the vigilante?

1. you all the police when there's a crime, that has always been the case.
2. no one never ever knows the intentions of anyone doing anything, even driving a car down the side walk full of people.
3. you assume people who carry will defend others, rather than just themselves and family.

vig"i"lan"te
G6;vijəG2;lan(t)ē/
noun
a member of a self-appointed group of citizens who undertake law enforcement in their community without legal authority, typically because the legal agencies are thought to be inadequate.

not the same as self defense or defense of others.

Carrying a rifle like that is only to make a statement. It's not particle, useful or comfortable. I think it's a bad idea actually as you get more negative attention than the message you are trying to send. Has there been an instance where someone who was open carrying a rifle of any kind actually used it? I'm not aware of any.

Texas is interesting in that you can conceal carry without a permit, but you need a permit to open carry, this is actually the opposite of several states.

So are you more afraid of what you can see than what you can't? Again I don't see the point of open carrying a rifle, but that's my personal opinion and he is free to do what he wants, but to me it would be way more suspicious if he carried concealed it in a trench coat.
kevin24018
Posts: 1,913
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1/4/2016 7:34:13 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
this is what we DON'T want
"An equally big problem is that the system of background checks is notoriously underfunded, understaffed, and underresourced. Although there are no waiting periods under federal law, a check that turns out inconclusive can be extended for three business days. But these three days are a maximum for the government " and sometimes the three days lapse without the FBI completing its check, and a buyer can at that point purchase a gun without the completed check.

The FBI admitted that something like this happened for the shooter who killed nine people at a predominantly black church in Charleston, South Carolina, in June 2015: The shooter in that case should have failed a background check for a handgun purchase after admitting to illegally possessing controlled substances in the past, but the FBI examiner did not obtain the shooter's record in time."

off topic I know, but wow, just wow
http://www.vox.com...
Vox_Veritas
Posts: 7,077
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1/4/2016 11:25:03 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/4/2016 4:41:52 AM, 000ike wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com...

In Texas, how is one to know when to call the police now? How is one to know the intentions of a person that walks into a store with a rifle strapped to his back? In the event that there is a shooting and an armed citizen is present, how is another armed citizen in the vicinity to know who is the criminal and who the vigilante?

Whenever he does something that would Indicate he's about to fire the gun.
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Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,036
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1/5/2016 10:03:31 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/4/2016 4:41:52 AM, 000ike wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com...

In Texas, how is one to know when to call the police now? How is one to know the intentions of a person that walks into a store with a rifle strapped to his back? In the event that there is a shooting and an armed citizen is present, how is another armed citizen in the vicinity to know who is the criminal and who the vigilante?

This is dumb. I'm all for open carry, but they don't need to show it off by walking around with AK's... it annoys me when people take a good thing to extreme measures. That's what pisses the people, on the fence of the issue, off.

I want to go up to these guys and tell them to just walk around with a pistol because their point will still be made. Unfortunately, the general populace IS spooked by these things and it isn't helping to play into those fears, regardless of harmless intent.

I do think open carry isn't really all that necessary either, but arguments could be made against that point that I don't care to get into at this current time.
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kevin24018
Posts: 1,913
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1/5/2016 2:02:33 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
This is dumb. I'm all for open carry, but they don't need to show it off by walking around with AK's... it annoys me when people take a good thing to extreme measures. That's what pisses the people, on the fence of the issue, off.

I want to go up to these guys and tell them to just walk around with a pistol because their point will still be made. Unfortunately, the general populace IS spooked by these things and it isn't helping to play into those fears, regardless of harmless intent.

I do think open carry isn't really all that necessary either, but arguments could be made against that point that I don't care to get into at this current time.

I agree with you and find it ironic that a lot of states require a permit to conceal carry but not open carry. If the sight of them is what's objectionable you'd think the laws would be more like Texas. Although there's probably states you don't need a permit for either. Anyway the black market for guns is what people really should be concerned about.
Blade-of-Truth
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1/5/2016 4:45:47 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/5/2016 2:02:33 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
This is dumb. I'm all for open carry, but they don't need to show it off by walking around with AK's... it annoys me when people take a good thing to extreme measures. That's what pisses the people, on the fence of the issue, off.

I want to go up to these guys and tell them to just walk around with a pistol because their point will still be made. Unfortunately, the general populace IS spooked by these things and it isn't helping to play into those fears, regardless of harmless intent.

I do think open carry isn't really all that necessary either, but arguments could be made against that point that I don't care to get into at this current time.

I agree with you and find it ironic that a lot of states require a permit to conceal carry but not open carry. If the sight of them is what's objectionable you'd think the laws would be more like Texas. Although there's probably states you don't need a permit for either. Anyway the black market for guns is what people really should be concerned about.


Well the black market will always exist. If guns are banned that's where they'll end up and people will still be buying them and using them. We already saw this with the war on drugs, and guns will be no different. If they ban ammo, then people will simply learn to make their own (some already are). Wiser regulations and a better education are the only answers. If we had a nation of responsible gun owners then I'm sure alot of the issues would halt.
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1harderthanyouthink
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1/5/2016 4:54:34 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
I don't see how open carry would be effective in "deterring" crime. More people with concealed carry - to me - would be much more effective with the "deter" argument.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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Robkwoods
Posts: 576
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1/5/2016 5:18:49 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/4/2016 11:25:03 PM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
At 1/4/2016 4:41:52 AM, 000ike wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com...

In Texas, how is one to know when to call the police now? How is one to know the intentions of a person that walks into a store with a rifle strapped to his back? In the event that there is a shooting and an armed citizen is present, how is another armed citizen in the vicinity to know who is the criminal and who the vigilante?

Whenever he does something that would Indicate he's about to fire the gun.

This is the best answer ever!
kevin24018
Posts: 1,913
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1/5/2016 6:31:43 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/5/2016 4:54:34 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I don't see how open carry would be effective in "deterring" crime. More people with concealed carry - to me - would be much more effective with the "deter" argument.

in some of the old movies, before committing a robbery they would "case the joint" look for security etc. If a would be bad guy for instance looked through the windows of a store and saw a person or persons open carrying then there is no doubt there are armed people in there. If they conceal carry well maybe there is maybe there's not. Conceal carry would be most effective if the criminals assumed that most people concealed carry. Most crime is one of risk/benefit and opportunity. The risk of robbing a store knowing there are armed people inside is far riskier than a store where there might be armed people inside. Hope that makes sense.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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1/5/2016 6:57:20 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/5/2016 6:31:43 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 1/5/2016 4:54:34 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I don't see how open carry would be effective in "deterring" crime. More people with concealed carry - to me - would be much more effective with the "deter" argument.

in some of the old movies, before committing a robbery they would "case the joint" look for security etc. If a would be bad guy for instance looked through the windows of a store and saw a person or persons open carrying then there is no doubt there are armed people in there. If they conceal carry well maybe there is maybe there's not. Conceal carry would be most effective if the criminals assumed that most people concealed carry. Most crime is one of risk/benefit and opportunity. The risk of robbing a store knowing there are armed people inside is far riskier than a store where there might be armed people inside. Hope that makes sense.

No, it's that they can very well just move to a different target.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,313
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1/5/2016 7:59:48 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
You would call the cops as usual, except the normal scenario would be a criminal would pull a gun out of his underwear. Criminals LOVE the element of surprise :D
Greyparrot
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1/5/2016 8:00:44 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/5/2016 6:57:20 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 1/5/2016 6:31:43 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 1/5/2016 4:54:34 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I don't see how open carry would be effective in "deterring" crime. More people with concealed carry - to me - would be much more effective with the "deter" argument.

in some of the old movies, before committing a robbery they would "case the joint" look for security etc. If a would be bad guy for instance looked through the windows of a store and saw a person or persons open carrying then there is no doubt there are armed people in there. If they conceal carry well maybe there is maybe there's not. Conceal carry would be most effective if the criminals assumed that most people concealed carry. Most crime is one of risk/benefit and opportunity. The risk of robbing a store knowing there are armed people inside is far riskier than a store where there might be armed people inside. Hope that makes sense.

No, it's that they can very well just move to a different target.

Like a gun free zone :D
kevin24018
Posts: 1,913
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1/5/2016 8:51:54 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/5/2016 6:57:20 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 1/5/2016 6:31:43 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 1/5/2016 4:54:34 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I don't see how open carry would be effective in "deterring" crime. More people with concealed carry - to me - would be much more effective with the "deter" argument.

in some of the old movies, before committing a robbery they would "case the joint" look for security etc. If a would be bad guy for instance looked through the windows of a store and saw a person or persons open carrying then there is no doubt there are armed people in there. If they conceal carry well maybe there is maybe there's not. Conceal carry would be most effective if the criminals assumed that most people concealed carry. Most crime is one of risk/benefit and opportunity. The risk of robbing a store knowing there are armed people inside is far riskier than a store where there might be armed people inside. Hope that makes sense.

No, it's that they can very well just move to a different target.

So it is a deterrent then if they move to a different target.

+1 Greyparrot (gun free zone, shooting gallerias)
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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1/5/2016 9:12:17 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/5/2016 8:51:54 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 1/5/2016 6:57:20 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 1/5/2016 6:31:43 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 1/5/2016 4:54:34 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I don't see how open carry would be effective in "deterring" crime. More people with concealed carry - to me - would be much more effective with the "deter" argument.

in some of the old movies, before committing a robbery they would "case the joint" look for security etc. If a would be bad guy for instance looked through the windows of a store and saw a person or persons open carrying then there is no doubt there are armed people in there. If they conceal carry well maybe there is maybe there's not. Conceal carry would be most effective if the criminals assumed that most people concealed carry. Most crime is one of risk/benefit and opportunity. The risk of robbing a store knowing there are armed people inside is far riskier than a store where there might be armed people inside. Hope that makes sense.

No, it's that they can very well just move to a different target.

So it is a deterrent then if they move to a different target.

+1 Greyparrot (gun free zone, shooting gallerias)

It's not a deterrent if they decide to stick up a different store.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
kevin24018
Posts: 1,913
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1/5/2016 9:20:35 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 1/5/2016 9:12:17 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 1/5/2016 8:51:54 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 1/5/2016 6:57:20 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 1/5/2016 6:31:43 PM, kevin24018 wrote:
At 1/5/2016 4:54:34 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I don't see how open carry would be effective in "deterring" crime. More people with concealed carry - to me - would be much more effective with the "deter" argument.

in some of the old movies, before committing a robbery they would "case the joint" look for security etc. If a would be bad guy for instance looked through the windows of a store and saw a person or persons open carrying then there is no doubt there are armed people in there. If they conceal carry well maybe there is maybe there's not. Conceal carry would be most effective if the criminals assumed that most people concealed carry. Most crime is one of risk/benefit and opportunity. The risk of robbing a store knowing there are armed people inside is far riskier than a store where there might be armed people inside. Hope that makes sense.

No, it's that they can very well just move to a different target.

So it is a deterrent then if they move to a different target.

+1 Greyparrot (gun free zone, shooting gallerias)

It's not a deterrent if they decide to stick up a different store.

actually it is, they where deterred from robbing the first store because they saw people open carrying, they where deterred from robbing the second store because they saw people open carrying, they robbed the third store because they didn't see anyone open carrying but someone with a concealed carry shot and killed them, the end. ya just trying to be a bit funny there but i hope you can see what I mean.