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Tunisia Riots

Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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1/16/2011 9:23:52 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
For those who haven't been keeping up, the Tunisians basically ran out their authoritarian president recently via protest. Apparently due to poor living conditions and a high unemployment rate (it's 25% for recent college grads), citizens took to the streets to start a revolution. Allegedly it was instigated by the suicide of a 26 year old college graduate after police claimed he was operating a food cart without a license, stripping him of his only source of income and confiscating his cart. Some say it was the president and his wife's extravagant lifestyle that sparked it - I guess similar to the protesters in the UK who threw stuff at Prince Charles' Rolls Royce and all that (cuz the royal family are being driven around in those while college kids pay exorbitant amounts of money for tuition, and they were pissed). If only Americans weren't too stupid and lazy to try the same things... but they are, so I highly doubt change is imminent. Le sigh. Viva La Revolución!
President of DDO
HatedeatH
Posts: 386
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1/16/2011 2:21:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Somebody should do the same in Iran, throw out the Islamic regime. Even Iranians hate it.
vardas0antras: If Muhammad is great then why didn't he stop 911 ?
gavin.ogden: He was too busy starting it.
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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1/21/2011 1:49:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/16/2011 2:21:55 PM, HatedeatH wrote:
Somebody should do the same in Iran, throw out the Islamic regime. Even Iranians hate it.

Untrue.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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1/21/2011 4:07:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Viva La Revolution ! ! !
The nation should split up, an the same goes to the middle east so they can decide weather to live in zealotry or logic . . .
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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1/22/2011 3:54:04 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/21/2011 4:07:57 PM, SuperRobotWars wrote:
Viva La Revolution ! ! !
The nation should split up, an the same goes to the middle east so they can decide weather to live in zealotry or logic . . .
If they get full democracy, we will see how their country will be. We will see what kind of logic will rule over them, and how well their new leader(s) will serve them. Hopefully they will not get such a mind-wrecking law, and instead live by a proper authority.
Veridas
Posts: 733
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1/22/2011 10:46:34 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/16/2011 2:21:55 PM, HatedeatH wrote:
Somebody should do the same in Iran, throw out the Islamic regime. Even Iranians hate it.

You have got to be f*cking kidding me.

Please tell me this is a troll.
What fresh dickery is the internet up to today?
HatedeatH
Posts: 386
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1/22/2011 4:16:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/21/2011 1:49:11 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/16/2011 2:21:55 PM, HatedeatH wrote:
Somebody should do the same in Iran, throw out the Islamic regime. Even Iranians hate it.

Untrue.

It is true actually. They have some support, but overall the average iranian doesn't like the islamic regime.
vardas0antras: If Muhammad is great then why didn't he stop 911 ?
gavin.ogden: He was too busy starting it.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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1/22/2011 4:36:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/22/2011 4:16:09 PM, HatedeatH wrote:
At 1/21/2011 1:49:11 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/16/2011 2:21:55 PM, HatedeatH wrote:
Somebody should do the same in Iran, throw out the Islamic regime. Even Iranians hate it.

Untrue.

It is true actually. They have some support, but overall the average iranian doesn't like the islamic regime.
Do you want the world to bomb USA because about half of its population doesn't like the government? Please tell me why you Americans think you have a special right to "throw out" a regime in the world, even though your own is terrorizing the world in many ways, excluding what it does to its own citizens. Do you think you can throw out the Islamic regime of Iran by threatening its people? Next time, make sure you remember what you said. Then you will understand why one like me will never be against the spread of Islamic regimes. If you think they will bow down to the arrogant governments of our Western world, I say time will show. Cowardice and arrogance will never beat justice.
HatedeatH
Posts: 386
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1/22/2011 4:38:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Mirza I meant Iranians should throw out the islamic regime, not foreign governments.
vardas0antras: If Muhammad is great then why didn't he stop 911 ?
gavin.ogden: He was too busy starting it.
HatedeatH
Posts: 386
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1/22/2011 4:39:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
And btw, Lwerd, I think Tunisians threw out their leader because he was secular. They wanted a more religious inclined leader. At least that's what I've heard recently.
vardas0antras: If Muhammad is great then why didn't he stop 911 ?
gavin.ogden: He was too busy starting it.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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1/22/2011 4:42:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/22/2011 4:38:29 PM, HatedeatH wrote:
Mirza I meant Iranians should throw out the islamic regime, not foreign governments.
No, they shouldn't. They have it better than they would with a "free" law. Not everyone wants "freedom" because they don't define freedom as "alcohol, drugs, pornography, sex" and other nonsenses.
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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1/22/2011 4:42:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/22/2011 4:36:47 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 1/22/2011 4:16:09 PM, HatedeatH wrote:
At 1/21/2011 1:49:11 PM, I-am-a-panda wrote:
At 1/16/2011 2:21:55 PM, HatedeatH wrote:
Somebody should do the same in Iran, throw out the Islamic regime. Even Iranians hate it.

Untrue.

It is true actually. They have some support, but overall the average iranian doesn't like the islamic regime.
Do you want the world to bomb USA because about half of its population doesn't like the government? Please tell me why you Americans think you have a special right to "throw out" a regime in the world, even though your own is terrorizing the world in many ways, excluding what it does to its own citizens. Do you think you can throw out the Islamic regime of Iran by threatening its people? Next time, make sure you remember what you said. Then you will understand why one like me will never be against the spread of Islamic regimes. If you think they will bow down to the arrogant governments of our Western world, I say time will show. Cowardice and arrogance will never beat justice.
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
HatedeatH
Posts: 386
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1/22/2011 4:45:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/22/2011 4:42:09 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 1/22/2011 4:38:29 PM, HatedeatH wrote:
Mirza I meant Iranians should throw out the islamic regime, not foreign governments.
No, they shouldn't. They have it better than they would with a "free" law. Not everyone wants "freedom" because they don't define freedom as "alcohol, drugs, pornography, sex" and other nonsenses.

I doubt having people stoned to death for petty crimes means they're better off, but ok.
vardas0antras: If Muhammad is great then why didn't he stop 911 ?
gavin.ogden: He was too busy starting it.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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1/22/2011 4:48:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/22/2011 4:45:06 PM, HatedeatH wrote:
At 1/22/2011 4:42:09 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 1/22/2011 4:38:29 PM, HatedeatH wrote:
Mirza I meant Iranians should throw out the islamic regime, not foreign governments.
No, they shouldn't. They have it better than they would with a "free" law. Not everyone wants "freedom" because they don't define freedom as "alcohol, drugs, pornography, sex" and other nonsenses.

I doubt having people stoned to death for petty crimes means they're better off, but ok.
It's not petty. When they stone men or women to death for adultery, it's because that is a horrible crime - as good as murder in certain cases - due to the fact that marriage in their religion and culture means a lot. Sometimes it means 50% of one's life. When the spouses cheat, it means a lot, it breaks their moral values, it destroys the kinship (which has a strong importance in religious duties), makes a person feel emotionally devastated, makes it harder for children to grow up being mentally stable and complete their educations, [etc etc etc]. They have every right to stone married adulterers. Marriage for you is not what marriage is for them. In fact, comparing the Western view of marriage to their view of marriage is like comparing insect life to human life. We value the latter much more, and when someone destroys an innocent human life, we punish him much harder than we "punish" someone who destroys an insect.
HatedeatH
Posts: 386
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1/22/2011 4:56:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/22/2011 4:48:47 PM, Mirza wrote:

It's not petty. When they stone men or women to death for adultery, it's because that is a horrible crime - as good as murder in certain cases - due to the fact that marriage in their religion and culture means a lot. Sometimes it means 50% of one's life. When the spouses cheat, it means a lot, it breaks their moral values, it destroys the kinship (which has a strong importance in religious duties), makes a person feel emotionally devastated, makes it harder for children to grow up being mentally stable and complete their educations, [etc etc etc]. They have every right to stone married adulterers. Marriage for you is not what marriage is for them. In fact, comparing the Western view of marriage to their view of marriage is like comparing insect life to human life. We value the latter much more, and when someone destroys an innocent human life, we punish him much harder than we "punish" someone who destroys an insect.

Or how they stone women for being raped, assuming she brought the rape on herself with indecent behaviour... It's not up to women to control the sexual desires of men. It's up to each person to control their own sexual desires.

Also, by killing an adulterer you're not solving anything. There has been cases where people have cheated, but have been able to reconcile everything and get back together. You can never really have that chance to work things out and forgive your partner if he/she is dead. It would also be better for the children to have two living parents, even if one is living away from them, than to have one dead parent...
vardas0antras: If Muhammad is great then why didn't he stop 911 ?
gavin.ogden: He was too busy starting it.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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1/22/2011 5:01:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/22/2011 4:56:40 PM, HatedeatH wrote:
Or how they stone women for being raped, assuming she brought the rape on herself with indecent behaviour... It's not up to women to control the sexual desires of men. It's up to each person to control their own sexual desires.
First, I never said women "control" the sexual desires of men. Men can't always control them. But there are many reasons for rape. A woman wearing a hijab, meaning the spiritual hijab, too, will not mix with non-relative men, will not touch them, display her beauty to them, etc. She will be far less inclined toward rape, and a man who doesn't hang out with women will also reduce the risk of raping someone.

Second, women should never be killed if they are victims of rape. I know some countries do this nonsense, but it's unfortunate. It's very saddening.

Also, by killing an adulterer you're not solving anything. There has been cases where people have cheated, but have been able to reconcile everything and get back together. You can never really have that chance to work things out and forgive your partner if he/she is dead. It would also be better for the children to have two living parents, even if one is living away from them, than to have one dead parent...
It doesn't change much. USA can bomb Russia and then they can "make friendship once more." Is that good? No, it's not. First, the strict penalty prevents adultery a great deal. Second, four witnesses are needed in order to prove the case of adultery, so most adulterers will not be caught. Third, the law does, all in all, help reduce the crime of adultery, and the other moral laws help with that, too. Stoning is just another form of capital punishment, and there's nothing wrong with using it for certain crimes.
HatedeatH
Posts: 386
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1/22/2011 5:11:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/22/2011 5:01:10 PM, Mirza wrote:

First, I never said women "control" the sexual desires of men. Men can't always control them. But there are many reasons for rape. A woman wearing a hijab, meaning the spiritual hijab, too, will not mix with non-relative men, will not touch them, display her beauty to them, etc. She will be far less inclined toward rape, and a man who doesn't hang out with women will also reduce the risk of raping someone.

Second, women should never be killed if they are victims of rape. I know some countries do this nonsense, but it's unfortunate. It's very saddening.

Oh noes! Mirza is sexist against men, saying they can't control their desires! Ok, enough joking around, this is serious. Women and men not being allowed to mix is pretty ridiculous, I guess that explains why so few women work in places like Saudi Arabia. The men might be corrupted into sinful acts by the evil womenz, oh noes! We can never give those evil womenz rights, only men! Also, this is so incredibly sexist:

It doesn't change much. USA can bomb Russia and then they can "make friendship once more." Is that good? No, it's not. First, the strict penalty prevents adultery a great deal. Second, four witnesses are needed in order to prove the case of adultery, so most adulterers will not be caught. Third, the law does, all in all, help reduce the crime of adultery, and the other moral laws help with that, too. Stoning is just another form of capital punishment, and there's nothing wrong with using it for certain crimes.

No, if you must use the death penalty there's many other much more humane ways. Even I support the death penalty for some crimes(adultery is scummy, but not a crime worthy of death), just not disgusting barbaric methods that come right out of the 7th century.
vardas0antras: If Muhammad is great then why didn't he stop 911 ?
gavin.ogden: He was too busy starting it.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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1/22/2011 5:12:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Stoning is unjust, slow painful, and torture.

Let people live their own lives and stop making religion the grounds for everything. That is my message to theocracies and idiots that support them.

Also Mirza I have a friend that lives in UAE and I told him most of my issues with islam are from what you say and he says you aren't a true muslim, and most of what you say are lies and most likely your just a troll, or do not understand islam, or possibly both.

Not my place to judge, but I was kind of relieved that real eastern muslims don't think that way. (I talked to a few others too but I talk to him daily)
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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1/22/2011 5:14:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
1. Women don't drive in Saudi Arabia because their Supreme Court established a law which restricted women from driving. It's therefore a Saudi Arabian law, not an Islamic law. I disagree with it.

2. Once more you are against death penalty for adultery due to your moral views. Not everyone shares them with you, and certainly not us Muslims. We consider adultery to be horrible.
lovelife
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1/22/2011 5:16:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/22/2011 5:14:40 PM, Mirza wrote:
1. Women don't drive in Saudi Arabia because their Supreme Court established a law which restricted women from driving. It's therefore a Saudi Arabian law, not an Islamic law. I disagree with it.

2. Once more you are against death penalty for adultery due to your moral views. Not everyone shares them with you, and certainly not us Muslims. We consider adultery to be horrible.

And thus should not be held to that standard systematically. That part should be added to a marriage contract if the couple is that concerned but not automatically there. Same thing for polygamy.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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1/22/2011 5:17:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/22/2011 5:12:04 PM, lovelife wrote:
Stoning is unjust, slow painful, and torture.

Let people live their own lives and stop making religion the grounds for everything. That is my message to theocracies and idiots that support them.


Also Mirza I have a friend that lives in UAE and I told him most of my issues with islam are from what you say and he says you aren't a true muslim, and most of what you say are lies and most likely your just a troll, or do not understand islam, or possibly both.

Not my place to judge, but I was kind of relieved that real eastern muslims don't think that way. (I talked to a few others too but I talk to him daily)
Does he not know that calling another Muslim a non-Muslim is a sin in Islam? And he judges me?

On top of that, I am not lying. What I say here is from the Qur'an or hadith. Stoning is a penalty, and if he disagrees, let him come here and debate it. A non-Muslim is not one who defends his religion, no matter how much it is being hated. A non-Muslim is one who says "Oh the Qur'an doesn't say cover head oh hadith don't say cover arms" because they are fearing people more than God.
Mirza
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1/22/2011 5:19:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/22/2011 5:16:49 PM, lovelife wrote:
At 1/22/2011 5:14:40 PM, Mirza wrote:
1. Women don't drive in Saudi Arabia because their Supreme Court established a law which restricted women from driving. It's therefore a Saudi Arabian law, not an Islamic law. I disagree with it.

2. Once more you are against death penalty for adultery due to your moral views. Not everyone shares them with you, and certainly not us Muslims. We consider adultery to be horrible.

And thus should not be held to that standard systematically. That part should be added to a marriage contract if the couple is that concerned but not automatically there. Same thing for polygamy.
Yes they should. If someone disagrees with Islamic Law, he has tons of countries to move to. What kind of system are you talking about? The Islamic standards of marriage will always apply, and if someone doesn't want to "live by its standards," then he should know better than to get married and cheat on the spouse.
HatedeatH
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1/22/2011 5:24:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/22/2011 5:14:40 PM, Mirza wrote:
1. Women don't drive in Saudi Arabia because their Supreme Court established a law which restricted women from driving. It's therefore a Saudi Arabian law, not an Islamic law. I disagree with it.

So? If you watched the video you would see that they use islam to back it up, that is NOT acceptable.

2. Once more you are against death penalty for adultery due to your moral views. Not everyone shares them with you, and certainly not us Muslims. We consider adultery to be horrible.

There are much worse things to worry about such as abusive spouses. What if said person is with an abusive spouse and finds somebody better?
vardas0antras: If Muhammad is great then why didn't he stop 911 ?
gavin.ogden: He was too busy starting it.
Mirza
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1/22/2011 5:27:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/22/2011 5:24:57 PM, HatedeatH wrote:
So? If you watched the video you would see that they use islam to back it up, that is NOT acceptable.
Of course they do that, but it doesn't mean that they're right. Islam challenges people to think logically all the time, and find the best of solutions to societal issues.

There are much worse things to worry about such as abusive spouses. What if said person is with an abusive spouse and finds somebody better?
Then there's divorce. A woman can divorce either by the help of a judge, or if she applied to the marriage contract that she can hand out the divorce like the man can.
HatedeatH
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1/22/2011 5:33:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/22/2011 5:27:41 PM, Mirza wrote:

Of course they do that, but it doesn't mean that they're right. Islam challenges people to think logically all the time, and find the best of solutions to societal issues.

Right, because muslims are definitely logical. The majority I have talked to have displayed a "The Quran is correct because Allah said so!" attitude. In that case, I'll go worship my napkin now: http://www.irreligion.org...

Then there's divorce. A woman can divorce either by the help of a judge, or if she applied to the marriage contract that she can hand out the divorce like the man can.

Except that obviously, it's almost impossible for muslim women to get divorces. Of course the men can like nothing.
vardas0antras: If Muhammad is great then why didn't he stop 911 ?
gavin.ogden: He was too busy starting it.
Mirza
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1/22/2011 5:36:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
You're evading my points. I want to explain the facts to you, but you keep coming with different points to whatever answer I give.

I am not explaining Iranian Law to you. I am explaining Islamic Law. Those are different. I know that Islamic countries are corrupt, oppressed, etc. by certain things which are cultural, not religious. It is horrible that a woman risks being killed because she gets raped. It is horrible that a woman is forced to marry against her will. But it is not Islamic Law. I won't defend Saudi Arabian or Iranian laws, except if they rule according to Shari'a, but they don't do so, perhaps not even 80%. They don't even have true Islamic banking.
HatedeatH
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1/22/2011 5:38:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/22/2011 5:36:52 PM, Mirza wrote:
You're evading my points. I want to explain the facts to you, but you keep coming with different points to whatever answer I give.

I am not explaining Iranian Law to you. I am explaining Islamic Law. Those are different. I know that Islamic countries are corrupt, oppressed, etc. by certain things which are cultural, not religious. It is horrible that a woman risks being killed because she gets raped. It is horrible that a woman is forced to marry against her will. But it is not Islamic Law. I won't defend Saudi Arabian or Iranian laws, except if they rule according to Shari'a, but they don't do so, perhaps not even 80%. They don't even have true Islamic banking.

This is all I have to say to that: http://en.wikipedia.org...
vardas0antras: If Muhammad is great then why didn't he stop 911 ?
gavin.ogden: He was too busy starting it.
lovelife
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1/22/2011 5:39:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
UEA is blocked from here.

We talked about the issue of cheating. He said that if his wife cheated on him he would be hurt and talk to her about it (following the three step rule)
And on the third time he would apply for a divorce but would never have her killed because that is unjust.
He does not deny anything the qu'ran says just as I and other reform jews do not deny the Torah, only use a bit of sense whe applying it.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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1/22/2011 5:42:05 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 1/22/2011 5:39:34 PM, lovelife wrote:
UEA is blocked from here.

We talked about the issue of cheating. He said that if his wife cheated on him he would be hurt and talk to her about it (following the three step rule)
And on the third time he would apply for a divorce but would never have her killed because that is unjust.
He does not deny anything the qu'ran says just as I and other reform jews do not deny the Torah, only use a bit of sense whe applying it.
Then unfortunately, you haven't told him the truth about me. If you have, then accept these challenges:

1. Find a place where I said a person should kill his/her spouse for cheating.
2. Find a place where I said a person should report his/her spouse for cheating.
3. -//- where I have made a disagreeing point with his order.