Total Posts:37|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Physics and geometry

phantom
Posts: 6,774
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 10:55:41 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
So next year I'm taking the dreaded physics class :(

I think I might have heard you had to take geometry to be able to do physics.

Is this true because I haven't taken geometry?
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 10:58:48 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 10:55:41 AM, phantom wrote:
So next year I'm taking the dreaded physics class :(

I think I might have heard you had to take geometry to be able to do physics.

Is this true because I haven't taken geometry?

Geometry and Trig certainly help, since you will likely be working with forces over angles (so will need to know SOH CAH TOA, and other things). But it isn't "needed," just helpful.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 10:59:25 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
really, if you need help, PM badger or myself (badger may come off as a stoned drunk, but he knows physics pretty darn good).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
phantom
Posts: 6,774
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 11:02:36 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 10:58:48 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 6/8/2011 10:55:41 AM, phantom wrote:
So next year I'm taking the dreaded physics class :(

I think I might have heard you had to take geometry to be able to do physics.

Is this true because I haven't taken geometry?

Geometry and Trig certainly help, since you will likely be working with forces over angles (so will need to know SOH CAH TOA, and other things). But it isn't "needed," just helpful.

I haven't taken either of those :/

Even though I'm 12th grade next year I got behind when I moved here last year. So I still need to take both of those.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 11:08:33 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 11:02:36 AM, phantom wrote:
At 6/8/2011 10:58:48 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 6/8/2011 10:55:41 AM, phantom wrote:
So next year I'm taking the dreaded physics class :(

I think I might have heard you had to take geometry to be able to do physics.

Is this true because I haven't taken geometry?

Geometry and Trig certainly help, since you will likely be working with forces over angles (so will need to know SOH CAH TOA, and other things). But it isn't "needed," just helpful.


I haven't taken either of those :/

Even though I'm 12th grade next year I got behind when I moved here last year. So I still need to take both of those.

You're entering 12th grade and you haven't taken Geometry? Not meaning to pry, but what math have you taken and how recently? You may find physics to be more difficult because of that, though if the science teacher likes to use actual demonstrations (where you can physically see what is going on, rather than just pictures on the chalk board), it can be easily worked around.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
phantom
Posts: 6,774
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 11:33:50 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 11:08:33 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 6/8/2011 11:02:36 AM, phantom wrote:
At 6/8/2011 10:58:48 AM, OreEle wrote:
At 6/8/2011 10:55:41 AM, phantom wrote:
So next year I'm taking the dreaded physics class :(

I think I might have heard you had to take geometry to be able to do physics.

Is this true because I haven't taken geometry?

Geometry and Trig certainly help, since you will likely be working with forces over angles (so will need to know SOH CAH TOA, and other things). But it isn't "needed," just helpful.


I haven't taken either of those :/

Even though I'm 12th grade next year I got behind when I moved here last year. So I still need to take both of those.

You're entering 12th grade and you haven't taken Geometry? Not meaning to pry, but what math have you taken and how recently? You may find physics to be more difficult because of that, though if the science teacher likes to use actual demonstrations (where you can physically see what is going on, rather than just pictures on the chalk board), it can be easily worked around.

The curriculum I'm using for math is slightly different than others I think. I'm not sure what grade most people do geometry but I should have done it this year. But I got really behind due to moving here, and before that as well we were quite busy. I've had to change to a whole new school system as well.
This year I finished algebra 2.
Someone from my home school co-op said he would email me something to help with the math though.
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
Kinesis
Posts: 3,667
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 11:49:22 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 10:58:48 AM, OreEle wrote:
Geometry and Trig certainly help, since you will likely be working with forces over angles (so will need to know SOH CAH TOA, and other things). But it isn't "needed," just helpful.

Silly Old Harry Caught A Herring Trawling Off Alaska.

Of course, our class came up with rude version right away.
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 12:04:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 10:55:41 AM, phantom wrote:
So next year I'm taking the dreaded physics class :(

I think I might have heard you had to take geometry to be able to do physics.

Is this true because I haven't taken geometry?

No, I have taught first year intro physics (university) to students who had little to no mathematical background who could not even for example solve two algebra equations let alone handle trigonometry. The amount of math you need for high school physics is small unless you are taking pre-calculus physics.
headphonegut
Posts: 4,122
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 12:12:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
You should be fine if you've taken algebra 2 That what high school physics uses mostly algebra 2 and some trig
crying to soldiers coming home to their dogs why do I torment myself with these videos?
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 12:58:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 12:04:43 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 6/8/2011 10:55:41 AM, phantom wrote:
So next year I'm taking the dreaded physics class :(

I think I might have heard you had to take geometry to be able to do physics.

Is this true because I haven't taken geometry?

No, I have taught first year intro physics (university) to students who had little to no mathematical background who could not even for example solve two algebra equations let alone handle trigonometry. The amount of math you need for high school physics is small unless you are taking pre-calculus physics.

I cannot imagine how one can do physics without even being able to do algebra. I mean the absolute basics of F=MA is an algebraic equation.

@ Phantom

My school did the path like this (for high school)...
Algebra -> Geometry -> Algebra 2 -> Trigonometry -> Calculus

Of course, depending on what is the "physics" class. My school had 2 versions. We had "physical science" and "physics" (and AP physics every other year). The "physical science" class really didn't need more than basic algebra. The other physics class I never took, so I don't know first hand what it needed, but if it was like the pre-calculus physics at community college that was needed to get credit for the high school physics (I took the calculus version because I had already taken calculus), then it will. And if this is a highschool senior class, I imagine it will be pre-cal.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 1:14:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 12:58:24 PM, OreEle wrote:

I cannot imagine how one can do physics without even being able to do algebra. I mean the absolute basics of F=MA is an algebraic equation.

Two equations. Bob starts running at 2.5 m/s,10 second later Bill starts running at 3.5 m/s. When does Bill catch up with Bob?
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 1:18:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 1:14:22 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 6/8/2011 12:58:24 PM, OreEle wrote:

I cannot imagine how one can do physics without even being able to do algebra. I mean the absolute basics of F=MA is an algebraic equation.

Two equations. Bob starts running at 2.5 m/s,10 second later Bill starts running at 3.5 m/s. When does Bill catch up with Bob?

25 seconds (assuming acceleration is instant). I suppose that is not requiring algebra (though still requires knowing how to manipulate math equations to solve a problem), but that isn't really physics. That is applied math.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
badger
Posts: 11,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 1:27:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 1:18:52 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 6/8/2011 1:14:22 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 6/8/2011 12:58:24 PM, OreEle wrote:

I cannot imagine how one can do physics without even being able to do algebra. I mean the absolute basics of F=MA is an algebraic equation.

Two equations. Bob starts running at 2.5 m/s,10 second later Bill starts running at 3.5 m/s. When does Bill catch up with Bob?

25 seconds (assuming acceleration is instant). I suppose that is not requiring algebra (though still requires knowing how to manipulate math equations to solve a problem), but that isn't really physics. That is applied math.

35 seconds :P
signature
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 1:30:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 1:27:33 PM, badger wrote:
At 6/8/2011 1:18:52 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 6/8/2011 1:14:22 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 6/8/2011 12:58:24 PM, OreEle wrote:

I cannot imagine how one can do physics without even being able to do algebra. I mean the absolute basics of F=MA is an algebraic equation.

Two equations. Bob starts running at 2.5 m/s,10 second later Bill starts running at 3.5 m/s. When does Bill catch up with Bob?

25 seconds (assuming acceleration is instant). I suppose that is not requiring algebra (though still requires knowing how to manipulate math equations to solve a problem), but that isn't really physics. That is applied math.

35 seconds :P

depends on what time frame you are using (based on when Bob started running or when Bill started running).

Bill catches Bob 25 seconds after Bill starts running.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 1:32:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 1:18:52 PM, OreEle wrote:

That is applied math.

Yeah but that is true of solving all physics problems. The physics is in understanding the nature of the mechanics, what are the forces involved, what is interacting with what to produce what, etc. - actually calculating anything is all math.
badger
Posts: 11,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 1:32:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 1:30:00 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 6/8/2011 1:27:33 PM, badger wrote:
At 6/8/2011 1:18:52 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 6/8/2011 1:14:22 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 6/8/2011 12:58:24 PM, OreEle wrote:

I cannot imagine how one can do physics without even being able to do algebra. I mean the absolute basics of F=MA is an algebraic equation.

Two equations. Bob starts running at 2.5 m/s,10 second later Bill starts running at 3.5 m/s. When does Bill catch up with Bob?

25 seconds (assuming acceleration is instant). I suppose that is not requiring algebra (though still requires knowing how to manipulate math equations to solve a problem), but that isn't really physics. That is applied math.

35 seconds :P

depends on what time frame you are using (based on when Bob started running or when Bill started running).

Bill catches Bob 25 seconds after Bill starts running.

yeah my bad. :P you'd be more right too i suppose.
signature
badger
Posts: 11,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 1:37:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 1:32:12 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 6/8/2011 1:18:52 PM, OreEle wrote:

That is applied math.

Yeah but that is true of solving all physics problems. The physics is in understanding the nature of the mechanics, what are the forces involved, what is interacting with what to produce what, etc. - actually calculating anything is all math.

that's fair enough. i've just found a lot of people have trouble when it comes to transposing those formulas, f=ma and the like. that'd be what's considered algebra, right? but then that'd be dealing with teachers who're just tradesmen who got lucky and don't really understand the transpositions all that well themselves to be explaining them..
signature
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 1:41:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 1:32:12 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 6/8/2011 1:18:52 PM, OreEle wrote:

That is applied math.

Yeah but that is true of solving all physics problems. The physics is in understanding the nature of the mechanics, what are the forces involved, what is interacting with what to produce what, etc. - actually calculating anything is all math.

true, but I think it is safe to assume that an entire physics class is going to get more involved into physics than that. They will almost certainly deal with mechanics, forces over pullies, working with gravity and friction. They will also most likely tap upon optics, electricity, and sound. Since most electricity is AC, it takes the form of a sin function and so basic trig will likely be needed. Dealing with forces applied at angles (thus using basic trig) will almost certainly be covered.

A fun thing that we did in our class (the physical science one, not physics) was to pass the class, we had to roll a ball down a slope, where it hit a level table for 1 meter, then flew off the table. We had to calculate where the ball would hit the floor. You put a cup on the floor where you think it will hit, and you have one shot, hit or miss.

We were allowed 2 tests of the ball from the top of the ramp to the bottom of the ramp, and 2 tests of the ball from the top of the ramp to the edge of the table, but not off the table, in order to try to calculate the friction of the ramp to get better guesses. Each team (of 3 or 4 people) had different ramps and different distances from the edge of the table, so you couldn't just copy other team's work.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
badger
Posts: 11,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 1:41:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
i went back to proper school there last year after having been two years outa it and i was lost for the first while when it came to algebra. shamed i was. couldn't understand it. then something clicked and i was flying again. the year of the head shop...? ;P
signature
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 1:43:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 1:32:55 PM, badger wrote:
At 6/8/2011 1:30:00 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 6/8/2011 1:27:33 PM, badger wrote:
At 6/8/2011 1:18:52 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 6/8/2011 1:14:22 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 6/8/2011 12:58:24 PM, OreEle wrote:

I cannot imagine how one can do physics without even being able to do algebra. I mean the absolute basics of F=MA is an algebraic equation.

Two equations. Bob starts running at 2.5 m/s,10 second later Bill starts running at 3.5 m/s. When does Bill catch up with Bob?

25 seconds (assuming acceleration is instant). I suppose that is not requiring algebra (though still requires knowing how to manipulate math equations to solve a problem), but that isn't really physics. That is applied math.

35 seconds :P

depends on what time frame you are using (based on when Bob started running or when Bill started running).

Bill catches Bob 25 seconds after Bill starts running.

yeah my bad. :P you'd be more right too i suppose.

no, technically you are. If it asked "how long does it take for Bill to catch Bob" I would, but it asked at what time. So we assume that the entire thing starts at t=0, Bill then starts at t=10, and catches him 25 seconds later at t=35.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
badger
Posts: 11,793
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 1:52:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 1:41:17 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 6/8/2011 1:32:12 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 6/8/2011 1:18:52 PM, OreEle wrote:

That is applied math.

Yeah but that is true of solving all physics problems. The physics is in understanding the nature of the mechanics, what are the forces involved, what is interacting with what to produce what, etc. - actually calculating anything is all math.

true, but I think it is safe to assume that an entire physics class is going to get more involved into physics than that. They will almost certainly deal with mechanics, forces over pullies, working with gravity and friction. They will also most likely tap upon optics, electricity, and sound. Since most electricity is AC, it takes the form of a sin function and so basic trig will likely be needed. Dealing with forces applied at angles (thus using basic trig) will almost certainly be covered.

A fun thing that we did in our class (the physical science one, not physics) was to pass the class, we had to roll a ball down a slope, where it hit a level table for 1 meter, then flew off the table. We had to calculate where the ball would hit the floor. You put a cup on the floor where you think it will hit, and you have one shot, hit or miss.

We were allowed 2 tests of the ball from the top of the ramp to the bottom of the ramp, and 2 tests of the ball from the top of the ramp to the edge of the table, but not off the table, in order to try to calculate the friction of the ramp to get better guesses. Each team (of 3 or 4 people) had different ramps and different distances from the edge of the table, so you couldn't just copy other team's work.

i met my physics teacher on night out in town and had sex with her in a car park. best teacher ever! we never did experiments though :( ..and to be honest, i preferred my french teacher ;) i miss school.
signature
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 2:45:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 1:41:17 PM, OreEle wrote:

Since most electricity is AC, it takes the form of a sin function and so basic trig will likely be needed.

You do that in introductory physics?
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 2:52:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 1:14:22 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:

Two equations. Bob starts running at 2.5 m/s,10 second later Bill starts running at 3.5 m/s. When does Bill catch up with Bob?

Philosophy test answer:
Never, because they are running in different directions.

Law school answer:
Never, catching is gross violation of Bob's right that is not allowed.

Political science test answer:
About two years, the time it takes get the "Stop Bob" law enacted.

Military school test answer:
A few milliseconds for the bullet to bring him down.

Anyway, just get a book on geometry ad learn it right away. It's easy. Taking geometry and and physics in parallel also works. I took geometry and trig in parallel without a poblem.
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 3:32:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 1:52:57 PM, badger wrote:

i met my physics teacher on night out in town and had sex with her in a car park.

How much extra credit did you get for that?
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/8/2011 3:35:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 6/8/2011 2:52:51 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
At 6/8/2011 1:14:22 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:

Two equations. Bob starts running at 2.5 m/s,10 second later Bill starts running at 3.5 m/s. When does Bill catch up with Bob?

Philosophy test answer:
Never, because they are running in different directions.

Law school answer:
Never, catching is gross violation of Bob's right that is not allowed.

Political science test answer:
About two years, the time it takes get the "Stop Bob" law enacted.

Military school test answer:
A few milliseconds for the bullet to bring him down.

Anyway, just get a book on geometry ad learn it right away. It's easy. Taking geometry and and physics in parallel also works. I took geometry and trig in parallel without a poblem.

very nice.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"