Total Posts:22|Showing Posts:1-22
Jump to topic:

Who is right?

Phoenix_Reaper
Posts: 318
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/3/2011 12:18:34 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Now I am making this thread purely because of what has happened to me at work today.

I am a Supervisor as the other person is a worker. The worker in question has a habit of mocking me in front of other employees and blatant disregard for authority at least towards me. I am relativity new to the position, granted not an excuse.

Such comments as, "I don't do what you tell me what to do anyways" during small talk. "This Supervisor badge has gotten to your head." "You do not know how to talk to people."

Now I confronted my boss to assist me in handling this situation, told her that the worker undermining of me is inappropriate. So we have a meeting with my boss, the worker in question, and myself.

During this encounter the entire conversation is already one sided because the worker is incapable of shutting up. The worker cleverly takes the reason why we are here, that she undermines me, and turns it into a bash on me. Saying such things as "I feel that he does (insert)." The workers stance is that feelings towards any, and all my actions, when we are there for ONE subject

My actions;
When I ask someone to do something I say, "I need you to do..." "Can you clean that up..." "This needs to be done now."

That is the crux, that apparently I am "demanding" and that because the worker feels I am picking on him or her makes the stance correct. During the conversation my boss sides with the worker nonstop. I am incapable of making a stance and when attempted shot down, such as;

"When you get into one of your moods you put it on everyone."

"What moods are you talking about? Your assuming I have moods."

After that I was shot down saying I am putting words in the workers mouth.

Another, major, part of her entire situation was that I am disrespectful towards others and that in order to get their respect I must respect them.

Granted except my position is not to be your friend nor am I to make you feel good, I am here to do a job and do it right and nicely. Respect and kindness, two different things.

The situations could be provided for the points she provides but, unless asked, won't bore readers.

My views on how a supervisor should act;
I am here to make sure the job gets done right and efficiently.
That when I need something done I delegate someone to do it.
It is a position of authority and should be respected because that is my job.

Am I wrong? I most likely am but due to the mounting on top of on topic I did not even bother countering her illogical, feeling based stances. More of a "right for the wrong reasons." in certain cases.

Also one thing that bothered me about the worker... "that is how I was raised so that is how it should be." I so, eagerly wanted to point out that just cause you think it is right does not making it ********* right.

/rant
Phoenix Reaper - To rise from the ashes of defeat and claim your soul.

: At 3/15/2011 4:23:07 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
: Taste is for pussïes. Be a nihilist. Drink vodka.
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/3/2011 2:01:01 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/3/2011 12:18:34 AM, Phoenix_Reaper wrote:
Now I am making this thread purely because of what has happened to me at work today.

I am a Supervisor as the other person is a worker. The worker in question has a habit of mocking me in front of other employees and blatant disregard for authority at least towards me. I am relativity new to the position, granted not an excuse.

Such comments as, "I don't do what you tell me what to do anyways" during small talk. "This Supervisor badge has gotten to your head." "You do not know how to talk to people."

Now I confronted my boss to assist me in handling this situation, told her that the worker undermining of me is inappropriate. So we have a meeting with my boss, the worker in question, and myself.

During this encounter the entire conversation is already one sided because the worker is incapable of shutting up. The worker cleverly takes the reason why we are here, that she undermines me, and turns it into a bash on me. Saying such things as "I feel that he does (insert)." The workers stance is that feelings towards any, and all my actions, when we are there for ONE subject

My actions;
When I ask someone to do something I say, "I need you to do..." "Can you clean that up..." "This needs to be done now."

That is the crux, that apparently I am "demanding" and that because the worker feels I am picking on him or her makes the stance correct. During the conversation my boss sides with the worker nonstop. I am incapable of making a stance and when attempted shot down, such as;

"When you get into one of your moods you put it on everyone."

"What moods are you talking about? Your assuming I have moods."

After that I was shot down saying I am putting words in the workers mouth.

Another, major, part of her entire situation was that I am disrespectful towards others and that in order to get their respect I must respect them.

Granted except my position is not to be your friend nor am I to make you feel good, I am here to do a job and do it right and nicely. Respect and kindness, two different things.

The situations could be provided for the points she provides but, unless asked, won't bore readers.

My views on how a supervisor should act;
I am here to make sure the job gets done right and efficiently.
That when I need something done I delegate someone to do it.
It is a position of authority and should be respected because that is my job.

Am I wrong? I most likely am but due to the mounting on top of on topic I did not even bother countering her illogical, feeling based stances. More of a "right for the wrong reasons." in certain cases.

Also one thing that bothered me about the worker... "that is how I was raised so that is how it should be." I so, eagerly wanted to point out that just cause you think it is right does not making it ********* right.

/rant

I think that since you've already reported it one up and your boss refuses to do anything about it, you should refer it to your HR department. I know you say you're the "supervisor", but do you have any say in terms of quarterly reviews with this worker? Does your input matter in terms of deciding whether or not to let this person go? Because your boss is not on board with you, all I can think of is to contact HR.

Based on the information you have given, I do not believe you are wrong.
Phoenix_Reaper
Posts: 318
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/3/2011 2:39:14 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/3/2011 2:01:01 AM, nonentity wrote:


I think that since you've already reported it one up and your boss refuses to do anything about it, you should refer it to your HR department. I know you say you're the "supervisor", but do you have any say in terms of quarterly reviews with this worker? Does your input matter in terms of deciding whether or not to let this person go? Because your boss is not on board with you, all I can think of is to contact HR.

Based on the information you have given, I do not believe you are wrong.

Apparently we are meant to review our workers during certain periods but it never came threw to us. I was told by one of the full times (big shots) that if he or she is insubordinate in any reason it is grounds for termination.
Phoenix Reaper - To rise from the ashes of defeat and claim your soul.

: At 3/15/2011 4:23:07 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
: Taste is for pussïes. Be a nihilist. Drink vodka.
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/3/2011 3:15:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/3/2011 12:18:34 AM, Phoenix_Reaper wrote:

My views on how a supervisor should act;
I am here to make sure the job gets done right and efficiently.
That when I need something done I delegate someone to do it.
It is a position of authority and should be respected because that is my job.

Am I wrong?

Do you want brutal honesty? You are wrong. People are not machines and you can not expect them to behave like machines. Start off by asking the question, why is he/she not listening to me, why are they disrespecting me, etc. . Do some reading on emotional intelligence and start focusing on the motivation drivers for your workers and ensure that you are taking them into account.
innomen
Posts: 10,052
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/3/2011 3:31:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The person that's undermining you is acting like a child who doesn't like authority. Treat them like a child and don't think of yourself as their peer but as a their superior, and never feel that you need them to like you. You really shouldn't care what they think about you at all, and if they are making attempts at humliating you that means they aren't taking you seriously, and you need to adopt an attude that will change that. You really need to have no vested interest at all in what their opinion is of you.
Phoenix_Reaper
Posts: 318
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/3/2011 4:17:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/3/2011 3:15:58 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 7/3/2011 12:18:34 AM, Phoenix_Reaper wrote:

My views on how a supervisor should act;
I am here to make sure the job gets done right and efficiently.
That when I need something done I delegate someone to do it.
It is a position of authority and should be respected because that is my job.

Am I wrong?

Do you want brutal honesty? You are wrong. People are not machines and you can not expect them to behave like machines. Start off by asking the question, why is he/she not listening to me, why are they disrespecting me, etc. . Do some reading on emotional intelligence and start focusing on the motivation drivers for your workers and ensure that you are taking them into account.

Guess there lies my problem emotional intelligence is useless. It comes down to the hierarchy, if I say to do something, do it. Ask questions on how to if needed but it is not a debate.
Phoenix Reaper - To rise from the ashes of defeat and claim your soul.

: At 3/15/2011 4:23:07 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
: Taste is for pussïes. Be a nihilist. Drink vodka.
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/3/2011 6:58:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/3/2011 4:17:04 PM, Phoenix_Reaper wrote:

Guess there lies my problem emotional intelligence is useless. It comes down to the hierarchy, if I say to do something, do it. Ask questions on how to if needed but it is not a debate.

I think you are going to have a hard life as a supervisor, even more so as a manager unless you run into some fairly ideal workers.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/3/2011 7:07:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's hard to say without knowing both of you and seeing how you interact with people. Generally, I'd say you're in the right because as you say, you're her superior and she should do what you ask her to do. This is not friendly-fun time, this is work. Blatant insubordination shouldn't be tolerated as it's counter-productive and brings undue stress on an already stressful thing (telling people what to do).

I'd take it further; if your boss a man? Is your worker a chick?
See where I'm going with this...
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/3/2011 8:18:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/3/2011 3:31:28 PM, innomen wrote:
The person that's undermining you is acting like a child who doesn't like authority. Treat them like a child and don't think of yourself as their peer but as a their superior, and never feel that you need them to like you. You really shouldn't care what they think about you at all, and if they are making attempts at humliating you that means they aren't taking you seriously, and you need to adopt an attude that will change that. You really need to have no vested interest at all in what their opinion is of you.

Opinion: These words are very dark. It saddens me to see someone actually give such negative advice.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/3/2011 8:22:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/3/2011 3:15:58 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 7/3/2011 12:18:34 AM, Phoenix_Reaper wrote:

My views on how a supervisor should act;
I am here to make sure the job gets done right and efficiently.
That when I need something done I delegate someone to do it.
It is a position of authority and should be respected because that is my job.

Am I wrong?

Do you want brutal honesty? You are wrong. People are not machines and you can not expect them to behave like machines. Start off by asking the question, why is he/she not listening to me, why are they disrespecting me, etc. . Do some reading on emotional intelligence and start focusing on the motivation drivers for your workers and ensure that you are taking them into account.

Opinion: I agree. You must take responsibility for your personal reality. Cliff has given you some good advice. Applying such advice will cause your work atmosphere to reflect a more positive energy.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Phoenix_Reaper
Posts: 318
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/3/2011 8:35:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/3/2011 8:22:00 PM, Tiel wrote:
At 7/3/2011 3:15:58 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
At 7/3/2011 12:18:34 AM, Phoenix_Reaper wrote:

My views on how a supervisor should act;
I am here to make sure the job gets done right and efficiently.
That when I need something done I delegate someone to do it.
It is a position of authority and should be respected because that is my job.

Am I wrong?

Do you want brutal honesty? You are wrong. People are not machines and you can not expect them to behave like machines. Start off by asking the question, why is he/she not listening to me, why are they disrespecting me, etc. . Do some reading on emotional intelligence and start focusing on the motivation drivers for your workers and ensure that you are taking them into account.

Opinion: I agree. You must take responsibility for your personal reality. Cliff has given you some good advice. Applying such advice will cause your work atmosphere to reflect a more positive energy.

I understand what he is trying to say. I just do not follow such ideas. Work is work, not play time for feelings. Respect is useful but it should not stop an employee from doing what was directed. I am responsible for all their actions as well as mine.
Phoenix Reaper - To rise from the ashes of defeat and claim your soul.

: At 3/15/2011 4:23:07 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
: Taste is for pussïes. Be a nihilist. Drink vodka.
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/3/2011 8:45:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I 100% disagree with Cliff. Work is work. My former boss used to party with us Friday night but come Saturday morning she was still our boss. Work is not play time, as someone else said. If you can't handle authority, be your own boss. Until then...
Cliff.Stamp
Posts: 2,169
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/3/2011 8:55:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If you disagree 100% with me because you think that work is work and partying is partying then you have a very odd idea of what I said. Anytime you want to debate me on what it takes to be an effective supervisor then issue the challenge. I would like to see you find even one respected source that would claim you should ignore the emotional needs of your employees and the motivational factors which drive workers to excel and instead just tell people what to do.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/3/2011 9:16:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/3/2011 8:55:32 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
If you disagree 100% with me because you think that work is work and partying is partying then you have a very odd idea of what I said. Anytime you want to debate me on what it takes to be an effective supervisor then issue the challenge. I would like to see you find even one respected source that would claim you should ignore the emotional needs of your employees and the motivational factors which drive workers to excel and instead just tell people what to do.

Are you trying to say an employees emotions should take preference to them obeying their superior and doing what they're paid to do?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

Muh threads
Using mafia tactics in real-life: http://www.debate.org...
6 years of DDO: http://www.debate.org...
Phoenix_Reaper
Posts: 318
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/3/2011 10:11:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/3/2011 8:55:32 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
If you disagree 100% with me because you think that work is work and partying is partying then you have a very odd idea of what I said. Anytime you want to debate me on what it takes to be an effective supervisor then issue the challenge. I would like to see you find even one respected source that would claim you should ignore the emotional needs of your employees and the motivational factors which drive workers to excel and instead just tell people what to do.

Motivation is separate of their emotional tendency. Such as I can offer you reward for doing good while telling you what to do. You may not like it but it is a form of motivation. We work for one reason, money.
Phoenix Reaper - To rise from the ashes of defeat and claim your soul.

: At 3/15/2011 4:23:07 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
: Taste is for pussïes. Be a nihilist. Drink vodka.
nonentity
Posts: 5,008
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/4/2011 1:14:24 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/3/2011 8:55:32 PM, Cliff.Stamp wrote:
If you disagree 100% with me because you think that work is work and partying is partying then you have a very odd idea of what I said.

Based on the OP's description, I cannot see how he can possibly be wrong.

Anytime you want to debate me on what it takes to be an effective supervisor then issue the challenge. I would like to see you find even one respected source that would claim you should ignore the emotional needs of your employees and the motivational factors which drive workers to excel and instead just tell people what to do.

Who said that? He tells the employee what to do and the employee flat out refuses and undermines him. I don't know where he works but when I worked at McDonald's, who gave a sh!t if the manager said "can you please mop up the bathroom?" Either way, I had to mop up the bathroom.

If it's in your job description, then it's completely fair game for your supervisor to tell you to do it. And if you can't handle that, then you're not cut out for employment. Do you think someone who undermines their superior is going to take kindly to asking them to do something, rather than telling them? What if the OP says "Can you do...?" and the worker says "No?" What then?
feverish
Posts: 2,716
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/4/2011 7:40:31 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
I agree with a lot of what Cliff has said here.

The OP hasn't done anything wrong as such, but yeah, if you want to supervise people effectively, you've got to view them as people not components. Always giving blunt orders is only going to make them resent you and you want get the performance from them that they are capable of.

Nonentity is right that it is not your job to be their friend, but it is your job to make sure the work is done as well as possible and that means communicating with them on a level as a human being. Different strategies are gonna work better with different people, but if your staff feel respected and valued, they will work better.

If an individual is really taking the p1ss however, you do need to make an example that you won't stand for it. It sounds like a lot of the problem here is that the person pheonix is supervising is a lot more assertive than pheonix is.
Phoenix_Reaper
Posts: 318
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/4/2011 8:26:50 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/4/2011 7:40:31 AM, feverish wrote:
If an individual is really taking the p1ss however, you do need to make an example that you won't stand for it. It sounds like a lot of the problem here is that the person pheonix is supervising is a lot more assertive than pheonix is.

You could call her that. Due to the fact she's a female I can only do so much. I am not allowed to pull her aside and talk to her alone. More so is that being a loud mouth, self righteous one doesn't make you assertive necessarily, it makes you a nousince.
Phoenix Reaper - To rise from the ashes of defeat and claim your soul.

: At 3/15/2011 4:23:07 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
: Taste is for pussïes. Be a nihilist. Drink vodka.
feverish
Posts: 2,716
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/4/2011 9:01:27 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/4/2011 8:26:50 AM, Phoenix_Reaper wrote:

You could call her that. Due to the fact she's a female I can only do so much. I am not allowed to pull her aside and talk to her alone. More so is that being a loud mouth, self righteous one doesn't make you assertive necessarily, it makes you a nousince.

Then I guess you need to give her the dressing down in front of everyone.

And yeah I think being a loud mouth does entail being assertive, even if it's not in a positive way. http://www.google.co.uk...
brian_eggleston
Posts: 3,347
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/4/2011 9:28:58 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Part of the problem is that workers react badly when bosses bark orders at them.

It would be better to prefix and suffix commands with qualifiers such as "if you wouldn't mind" and "if you have time" or "I'd really appreciate it if you could".
Visit the burglars' bulletin board: http://www.break-in-news.com...
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/4/2011 9:44:37 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Am I wrong? I most likely am but due to the mounting on top of on topic I did not even bother countering her illogical, feeling based stances. More of a "right for the wrong reasons." in certain cases.:

I couldn't know for certain without witnessing it, but if your descriptions are accurate, it sounds as if the employee takes great exception towards authority figures. She may feel threatened by people telling her what to do because it makes her feel out of control (could be something deep in her subconscious from a traumatic past event; you might want to be empathetic to that at first by giving her the benefit of the doubt). Her only way to even the playing field is acting defiant in front of fellow employees, where she can muster their support. That in turn makes her feel more powerful.

Having served in the military for many years, I know firsthand what good and bad leadership looks like. I would say that the officer corp has 30% horrible officers who are either too lenient or too stern, 60% who are marginal leaders, and 10% who are fantastic (the kind who you would go in to battle with out of nothing more than genuine respect). You do have some that power trip, you do have some that let you walk all over them....

I would sit her down and have a one on one with her in private. Make a point never to point out her shortcomings in front of other people, make a point to see her side of the story (personalize it), make a point to offer a true resolution without surrendering your authority. It's going to take some verbal judo, but the best way to handle any situation is lead them in such a way that they feel they made the decision for themselves, when in fact you led them there unbeknownst to them consciously.

If it happens again, you're going to have to bring this to the attention of corporate. More than likely she'll be fired if she can't adapt.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)