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Is bein Gay a choice?????

ravynkelley
Posts: 67
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11/17/2011 12:38:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Ok so like we were having this discussion where thius guy had said you are born gay. And i was like no being gay is an option. And that u can pick whether you like the same sex or if you dont. So we have never settled this. So Please Anybody Everybody wat is you opinion on this?????
lotus_flower
Posts: 454
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11/18/2011 3:34:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/17/2011 12:38:49 PM, ravynkelley wrote:
Ok so like we were having this discussion where thius guy had said you are born gay. And i was like no being gay is an option. And that u can pick whether you like the same sex or if you dont. So we have never settled this. So Please Anybody Everybody wat is you opinion on this?????

No, It is not an option/choice, or whatever. I don't feel like explaining it, so go type in "for the bible tells me so" on YouTube, and watch the cartoon clip that comes up.
"Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it."
- Christopher Hitchens, God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
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http://www.bbc.co.uk...
Wain84
Posts: 41
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11/21/2011 8:19:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/17/2011 12:38:49 PM, ravynkelley wrote:
Ok so like we were having this discussion where thius guy had said you are born gay. And i was like no being gay is an option. And that u can pick whether you like the same sex or if you dont. So we have never settled this. So Please Anybody Everybody wat is you opinion on this?????

I am not a homosexual, but it is not a choice. I never got up one day and decided "I think I should not be straight". Notice that most homosexuals do not decide to be straight. Why have so many people been homosexuals in times of discrimination? Wouldn't it have been counter-intuitive for so many people to remain gay if it was a choice. Most people who christen homosexuality as a choice have never dealt with it, so it is argued from a biblical perspective. However, I think the evidence shows that homosexuality is indeed innate.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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11/21/2011 8:58:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
If you believe in science, you should believe it's not a choice.

I devote a whole section to this here: http://www.debate.org...

Or if you prefer:

1. Homosexuality is not a choice

Homosexuality has a significant genetic component: According to Time Magazine, "It's a bit bewildering to watch the behavior of certain fruit flies at the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland. There, in the laboratories of biologists Ward Odenwald and Shang-Ding Zhang, strange things are happening inside the gallon-size culture jars. In some experiments, the female flies are cowering in groups at the top and bottom of the jars. The males, meanwhile, are having a party -- no, an orgy -- among themselves. With a frenzy usually reserved for chasing females, the males link up end-to-end in big circles or in long, winding rows that look like winged conga lines. As the buzz of the characteristic fruit fly "love song" fills the air, the males repeatedly lurch forward and rub genitals with the next ones in line. What's going on? Without a wink or a chuckle, Odenwald claims that these male fruit flies are gay -- and that he and Zhang made them that way. The scientists say they transplanted a single gene into the flies that caused them to display homosexual behavior. And that's very interesting, they assert, because a related gene exists in human beings." [1] In addition, according to New Scientists, "A gene has been discovered that appears to dictate the sexual preferences of female mice. Delete the gene and the modified mice reject the advances of the males and attempt to mate with other females instead." [2] In addition, many studies link being gay with pre-natal testosterone exposure (which would be determined genetically, since the fetus's genetics determine which hormones it manufactures). According to the Seattle Times, "In heterosexual women, the index and ring fingers are usually about the same length. In heterosexual men, the index finger is shorter, on average, than the ring finger. It's one of several differences between the sexes that seem to be set before birth, based on testosterone exposure. Breedlove found lesbians' finger lengths were, on average, more like men's. The same holds true for other traits, like eye-blink patterns and inner-ear function. 'Every time you find a body marker that gives an indication of prenatal testosterone exposure, lesbians on average are more masculine than straight women,' Breedlove said. This can't be a fluke.'" [3]

2. Homosexuality in nature

The same Seattle Times article points out that sheep breeders have long known that 8% of rams refuse to mate (because they are gay). A book by Bruce Bahemihl, Ph.D., called Biological Exhuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity outlines all the different animal species that exhibit homosexual behavior. For example, 10% of silver gulls, 22% of black headed gulls, and 9% of Japanese macaques are homosexual. [4] The book is the first to document homosexual behavior on such a wide scale because the taboo nature of the subject led many previous biologists/naturalists to exclude observed homosexual behaviors from their published literature. Bahemihl documents 1500 species that display homosexual behavior. [5] If animals, which are not rational beings, engage in homosexual behavior, it must be "natural" and cannot be a "choice."
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
sadolite
Posts: 8,842
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11/21/2011 9:44:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
It would be for me.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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11/21/2011 9:56:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
In the words of CRACKED: "There is a lot of ongoing debate as to whether or not people are born gay or simply choose to join the most maligned group in history since the Jews for sh1ts and giggles."
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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11/21/2011 9:57:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I never at any point chose to be attracted to both sexes. I of course do not mind this, as that is who I am, but it is not something I actively decided.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Wain84
Posts: 41
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11/21/2011 10:45:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 8:58:44 PM, bluesteel wrote:
If you believe in science, you should believe it's not a choice.

I devote a whole section to this here: http://www.debate.org...

Or if you prefer:

1. Homosexuality is not a choice

Homosexuality has a significant genetic component: According to Time Magazine, "It's a bit bewildering to watch the behavior of certain fruit flies at the National Institutes of Health in Bethesda, Maryland. There, in the laboratories of biologists Ward Odenwald and Shang-Ding Zhang, strange things are happening inside the gallon-size culture jars. In some experiments, the female flies are cowering in groups at the top and bottom of the jars. The males, meanwhile, are having a party -- no, an orgy -- among themselves. With a frenzy usually reserved for chasing females, the males link up end-to-end in big circles or in long, winding rows that look like winged conga lines. As the buzz of the characteristic fruit fly "love song" fills the air, the males repeatedly lurch forward and rub genitals with the next ones in line. What's going on? Without a wink or a chuckle, Odenwald claims that these male fruit flies are gay -- and that he and Zhang made them that way. The scientists say they transplanted a single gene into the flies that caused them to display homosexual behavior. And that's very interesting, they assert, because a related gene exists in human beings." [1] In addition, according to New Scientists, "A gene has been discovered that appears to dictate the sexual preferences of female mice. Delete the gene and the modified mice reject the advances of the males and attempt to mate with other females instead." [2] In addition, many studies link being gay with pre-natal testosterone exposure (which would be determined genetically, since the fetus's genetics determine which hormones it manufactures). According to the Seattle Times, "In heterosexual women, the index and ring fingers are usually about the same length. In heterosexual men, the index finger is shorter, on average, than the ring finger. It's one of several differences between the sexes that seem to be set before birth, based on testosterone exposure. Breedlove found lesbians' finger lengths were, on average, more like men's. The same holds true for other traits, like eye-blink patterns and inner-ear function. 'Every time you find a body marker that gives an indication of prenatal testosterone exposure, lesbians on average are more masculine than straight women,' Breedlove said. This can't be a fluke.'" [3]

2. Homosexuality in nature

The same Seattle Times article points out that sheep breeders have long known that 8% of rams refuse to mate (because they are gay). A book by Bruce Bahemihl, Ph.D., called Biological Exhuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity outlines all the different animal species that exhibit homosexual behavior. For example, 10% of silver gulls, 22% of black headed gulls, and 9% of Japanese macaques are homosexual. [4] The book is the first to document homosexual behavior on such a wide scale because the taboo nature of the subject led many previous biologists/naturalists to exclude observed homosexual behaviors from their published literature. Bahemihl documents 1500 species that display homosexual behavior. [5] If animals, which are not rational beings, engage in homosexual behavior, it must be "natural" and cannot be a "choice."

Interesting, sadly, people will ignore the facts for dogmatic reasons.
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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11/21/2011 10:54:42 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 8:58:44 PM, bluesteel wrote:
a whole bunch of liberal hippie crap.

You evil demonic spawn of satan!!!! Your trying to steal souls with your "facts" and "logic" and "scientific sources"....everyone knows science is biased against god and for liberal crap that will destroy our lives, souls, and planet!!!
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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11/21/2011 11:08:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/17/2011 12:38:49 PM, ravynkelley wrote:
Ok so like we were having this discussion where thius guy had said you are born gay. And i was like no being gay is an option. And that u can pick whether you like the same sex or if you dont. So we have never settled this. So Please Anybody Everybody wat is you opinion on this?????

I am unsure whether I should say homosexuality is a choice or not. If it is a choice, the chooser is at least deceived, making it no longer a choice. I do not choose to be straight, but maybe I do? Perhaps there is a strong influence from everything around us that deems our fate? Nevertheless, I am willingly straight based mainly on my faith, not to say if it wasn't for my faith I would be gay, no, not at all that. However, I would agree that homosexuality does play a role in genetics, just like those who are over weight (fat) or like those who have a good muscular structure. But having said that, a gay person cannot blame his or her homosexuality purely on genetics, could you imagine if every over weight person did that, no, they eat well and exercise to get slim and those who have a good muscular structure show that they have by hitting the gym.
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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11/22/2011 10:02:24 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/21/2011 11:08:28 PM, GodSands wrote:
At 11/17/2011 12:38:49 PM, ravynkelley wrote:
Ok so like we were having this discussion where thius guy had said you are born gay. And i was like no being gay is an option. And that u can pick whether you like the same sex or if you dont. So we have never settled this. So Please Anybody Everybody wat is you opinion on this?????

I am unsure whether I should say homosexuality is a choice or not. If it is a choice, the chooser is at least deceived, making it no longer a choice. I do not choose to be straight, but maybe I do? Perhaps there is a strong influence from everything around us that deems our fate? Nevertheless, I am willingly straight based mainly on my faith, not to say if it wasn't for my faith I would be gay, no, not at all that. However, I would agree that homosexuality does play a role in genetics, just like those who are over weight (fat) or like those who have a good muscular structure. But having said that, a gay person cannot blame his or her homosexuality purely on genetics, could you imagine if every over weight person did that, no, they eat well and exercise to get slim and those who have a good muscular structure show that they have by hitting the gym.

That is not an apt analogy. Homosexuality = attraction to the same sex. It's a desire. Just like eating food is a desire. Sure, with willpower, you can "overcome" your desires. But in the case of homosexuality, that just means lying to yourself and everyone around you about how you feel inside.

So with food, controlling your desires is a good thing. With homosexuality, it's an identity crisis.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Rasheed
Posts: 49
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11/23/2011 9:17:00 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
There is an effort by some people to reject the basic humanity of gays by claiming that they have a choice concerning who they are attracted to. As I have said in other posts, as a Muslim I am personally opposed to the gay lifestyle, but what I believe should in no way affect the life of two adults who have the right to do whatever they want in the privacy of their own home.

For those who believe in a Higher Power, our job is not to mistreat people, because they have feelings just like anyone else. Let the Most High straighten everything out but we must demand that they be treated with the same respect and dignity as anyone else.
Say; He Allah (S.W.T.) is One God, He Begets not, nor is He begotten, and there is none like unto Him."
GodSands
Posts: 2,843
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11/23/2011 5:22:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/22/2011 10:02:24 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 11/21/2011 11:08:28 PM, GodSands wrote:
At 11/17/2011 12:38:49 PM, ravynkelley wrote:
Ok so like we were having this discussion where thius guy had said you are born gay. And i was like no being gay is an option. And that u can pick whether you like the same sex or if you dont. So we have never settled this. So Please Anybody Everybody wat is you opinion on this?????

I am unsure whether I should say homosexuality is a choice or not. If it is a choice, the chooser is at least deceived, making it no longer a choice. I do not choose to be straight, but maybe I do? Perhaps there is a strong influence from everything around us that deems our fate? Nevertheless, I am willingly straight based mainly on my faith, not to say if it wasn't for my faith I would be gay, no, not at all that. However, I would agree that homosexuality does play a role in genetics, just like those who are over weight (fat) or like those who have a good muscular structure. But having said that, a gay person cannot blame his or her homosexuality purely on genetics, could you imagine if every over weight person did that, no, they eat well and exercise to get slim and those who have a good muscular structure show that they have by hitting the gym.

That is not an apt analogy. Homosexuality = attraction to the same sex. It's a desire. Just like eating food is a desire. Sure, with willpower, you can "overcome" your desires. But in the case of homosexuality, that just means lying to yourself and everyone around you about how you feel inside.

So with food, controlling your desires is a good thing. With homosexuality, it's an identity crisis.

No, not necessarily, one could say that their eating pattern is who they are, or it is a part of who they are. However we both know that a bad diet should be inhabited upon. Homosexuality is a attitude that maybe built into genetics, perhaps as a defect, just like bad eating habits. Suggest to me otherwise why I ought to think differently?
SuperRobotWars
Posts: 3,906
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11/23/2011 7:59:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
This video more or less goes over the issue.
http://www.watchcartoononline.com...
Minister Of Trolling
: At 12/6/2011 2:21:41 PM, badger wrote:
: ugly people should beat beautiful people ugly. simple! you'd be killing two birds with the one stone... women like violent men and you're making yourself more attractive, relatively. i met a blonde dude who was prettier than me not so long ago. he's not so pretty now! ha!
:
: ...and well, he wasn't really prettier than me. he just had nice hair.
JustCallMeTarzan
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11/23/2011 8:14:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/17/2011 12:38:49 PM, ravynkelley wrote:
Ok so like we were having this discussion where thius guy had said you are born gay. And i was like no being gay is an option. And that u can pick whether you like the same sex or if you dont. So we have never settled this. So Please Anybody Everybody wat is you opinion on this?????

When did you pick to be straight?
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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11/23/2011 8:31:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/23/2011 8:14:09 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 11/17/2011 12:38:49 PM, ravynkelley wrote:
Ok so like we were having this discussion where thius guy had said you are born gay. And i was like no being gay is an option. And that u can pick whether you like the same sex or if you dont. So we have never settled this. So Please Anybody Everybody wat is you opinion on this?????

When did you pick to be straight?

I don't get why people think Prison Rape is so bad. Why don't they just choose to be homosexuals so they an enjoy it while they're in prison and then choose to be heterosexuals when they get out? It's so simple!
ravynkelley
Posts: 67
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11/24/2011 9:11:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/23/2011 8:14:09 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 11/17/2011 12:38:49 PM, ravynkelley wrote:
Ok so like we were having this discussion where thius guy had said you are born gay. And i was like no being gay is an option. And that u can pick whether you like the same sex or if you dont. So we have never settled this. So Please Anybody Everybody wat is you opinion on this?????

When did you pick to be straight?

ummm i never considered the possibility so i guess ive always chosen to be straight
Andromeda_Z
Posts: 4,151
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11/25/2011 12:58:28 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/24/2011 9:11:48 PM, ravynkelley wrote:
At 11/23/2011 8:14:09 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 11/17/2011 12:38:49 PM, ravynkelley wrote:
Ok so like we were having this discussion where thius guy had said you are born gay. And i was like no being gay is an option. And that u can pick whether you like the same sex or if you dont. So we have never settled this. So Please Anybody Everybody wat is you opinion on this?????

When did you pick to be straight?

ummm i never considered the possibility so i guess ive always chosen to be straight

If you never considered the possibility, then exactly how did you choose?
ravynkelley
Posts: 67
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11/25/2011 6:55:47 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/25/2011 12:58:28 AM, Andromeda_Z wrote:
At 11/24/2011 9:11:48 PM, ravynkelley wrote:
At 11/23/2011 8:14:09 PM, JustCallMeTarzan wrote:
At 11/17/2011 12:38:49 PM, ravynkelley wrote:
Ok so like we were having this discussion where thius guy had said you are born gay. And i was like no being gay is an option. And that u can pick whether you like the same sex or if you dont. So we have never settled this. So Please Anybody Everybody wat is you opinion on this?????

When did you pick to be straight?

ummm i never considered the possibility so i guess ive always chosen to be straight

If you never considered the possibility, then exactly how did you choose?

well i mean its not like i looked at a girl and was like now that is one fine @$$ girl, i mean they dont turn me on and i mean i just never thought about a girl being the one for me. bc personally a girls lips on my lips or any image of a girl near me in a gay way makes me a little turned off.....
innomen
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11/25/2011 6:59:15 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
There's a fairly high percentage of adolescent suicide attributed to being gay. Essentially the gay person would rather be dead than be gay. If it's a choice this means that either the statistic is wrong, or the presumption of choice is in error, because the individual can simply ignore any passing temptation and choose to be attracted by the opposite sex.

I can tell you without any doubt, for most men it is not a choice; however there are exceptions, but for the most part there is an innate desire to be intimate with the same sex.

I probably could be trained to find some interest in female anatomy, but that really doesn't get what being gay means. There is a deeper connection that one has and needs with that of the same sex, not just on an outward level of physical attraction, but a deeper level of a natural intimate compatibility with the same sex. Again, I could probably fake a relationship with a woman for a little while, but it would not be providing me with what i need, a true union with another man with whom i would share my life.
bluesteel
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11/25/2011 12:22:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/25/2011 6:59:15 AM, innomen wrote:
There's a fairly high percentage of adolescent suicide attributed to being gay. Essentially the gay person would rather be dead than be gay. If it's a choice this means that either the statistic is wrong, or the presumption of choice is in error, because the individual can simply ignore any passing temptation and choose to be attracted by the opposite sex.

Wow, this is incredibly wise.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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11/25/2011 12:29:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
@Godsands

Blue eyes are a "defect." White skin is a "defect." The first humans were black skinned and brown eyed. Genetic mutation ("defects") caused lacks of pigmentation, which makes those with the "defect" more susceptible to sunlight.

I don't care how homosexuality came about; that doesn't make it any more of a choice and doesn't give us an excuse to "not accept" it. Unless you're arguing that being born with Down Syndrome is a "sin," and you'd go protest outside Down Syndrome advocacy groups that these children need to "choose to be smart." You can go around shouting "mental retardation is a CHOICE!!"
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
GodSands
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11/26/2011 10:38:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/25/2011 12:29:00 PM, bluesteel wrote:
@Godsands

Blue eyes are a "defect." White skin is a "defect." The first humans were black skinned and brown eyed. Genetic mutation ("defects") caused lacks of pigmentation, which makes those with the "defect" more susceptible to sunlight.

I don't care how homosexuality came about; that doesn't make it any more of a choice and doesn't give us an excuse to "not accept" it. Unless you're arguing that being born with Down Syndrome is a "sin," and you'd go protest outside Down Syndrome advocacy groups that these children need to "choose to be smart." You can go around shouting "mental retardation is a CHOICE!!"

That is my very point, what I am saying is so. Homosexuality might just well be a genetic defect or whatever, and like Down Syndrome, it could well be a defect (hence I do not believe in positive or negative defects, just defects. Given that a positive is no positive without the negative along side it). Homosexuality, I believe is a defect that has big, and great potential in destroying a consistent society! Mental retardation is no choice, likewise with homosexuality, perhaps? But however something that is not subjective as choice does not mean it is good, rather like cancer or other diseases, they are not good, but instead unwanted. Tell me so therefore, how homosexuality is any different.
lovelife
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11/27/2011 2:19:31 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Because it brings positives.
1) intimate relationships/love/mutual support and understanding
2) population control/no accidental pregnancies
3) more diversity

Cancer, however has no innate positives.
Blue eyes is considered positive because its diverse and thus intruging and beautiful (subjective of course but it does have that innate positive without innate bad making it positive overall. Homosexuality isn't more positive or negative than heterosexuality, and blue eyes is neither superior or inferior to brown eyes.

I prob made no sense since I should be asleep...
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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11/30/2011 2:47:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
To the OP

If you take the words of scientists and knowledge seriously, then no, being gay is not a choice. If you instead, CHOOSE, to believe whatever you want- then believe whatever you want. But that doesn't make you right. It just makes you stupid.

@ Godsands

There is a way to argue for the evolutionary benefits of being gay. If you "believe" in evolution that is AKA if you take science and knowledge seriously.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
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GodSands
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11/30/2011 6:23:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/30/2011 2:47:45 PM, Oryus wrote:
To the OP

If you take the words of scientists and knowledge seriously, then no, being gay is not a choice. If you instead, CHOOSE, to believe whatever you want- then believe whatever you want. But that doesn't make you right. It just makes you stupid.

@ Godsands

There is a way to argue for the evolutionary benefits of being gay. If you "believe" in evolution that is AKA if you take science and knowledge seriously.

Sure ok, I'll keep thinking that...Take science and knowledge seriously...take science and knowledge seriously....What sorry!!? I am blown away by your poor response.
PARADIGM_L0ST
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11/30/2011 6:48:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
That is my very point, what I am saying is so. Homosexuality might just well be a genetic defect or whatever, and like Down Syndrome, it could well be a defect (hence I do not believe in positive or negative defects, just defects. Given that a positive is no positive without the negative along side it). Homosexuality, I believe is a defect that has big, and great potential in destroying a consistent society!:

If that's true, then why does your god command them to be executed on account of their "defect" that's no fault of their own?
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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11/30/2011 8:00:56 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 11/23/2011 5:22:36 PM, GodSands wrote:
At 11/22/2011 10:02:24 AM, bluesteel wrote:
At 11/21/2011 11:08:28 PM, GodSands wrote:
At 11/17/2011 12:38:49 PM, ravynkelley wrote:
Ok so like we were having this discussion where thius guy had said you are born gay. And i was like no being gay is an option. And that u can pick whether you like the same sex or if you dont. So we have never settled this. So Please Anybody Everybody wat is you opinion on this?????

I am unsure whether I should say homosexuality is a choice or not. If it is a choice, the chooser is at least deceived, making it no longer a choice. I do not choose to be straight, but maybe I do? Perhaps there is a strong influence from everything around us that deems our fate? Nevertheless, I am willingly straight based mainly on my faith, not to say if it wasn't for my faith I would be gay, no, not at all that. However, I would agree that homosexuality does play a role in genetics, just like those who are over weight (fat) or like those who have a good muscular structure. But having said that, a gay person cannot blame his or her homosexuality purely on genetics, could you imagine if every over weight person did that, no, they eat well and exercise to get slim and those who have a good muscular structure show that they have by hitting the gym.

That is not an apt analogy. Homosexuality = attraction to the same sex. It's a desire. Just like eating food is a desire. Sure, with willpower, you can "overcome" your desires. But in the case of homosexuality, that just means lying to yourself and everyone around you about how you feel inside.

So with food, controlling your desires is a good thing. With homosexuality, it's an identity crisis.

No, not necessarily, one could say that their eating pattern is who they are, or it is a part of who they are. However we both know that a bad diet should be inhabited upon. Homosexuality is a attitude that maybe built into genetics, perhaps as a defect, just like bad eating habits. Suggest to me otherwise why I ought to think differently?

Here, I will actually respond to what YOU said. I don't have a clue why I put @Godsands on what I last said but it wasn't directed at you or anything you've said. I didn't actually read your arguments until just now..... Confusing.

This argument is about why you can't compare the genetic predisposition for loving food too much with the genetic predisposition for loving people of the same sex.

1st off- Homosexuality and Heterosexuality are not the only types of sexuality. The words and concepts themselves are social constructs created more or less a hundred years ago. But since this is the discussion, I will only mention these two.
2nd- In our society, you COULD see your food desires as part of your identity- but you are not compelled to. It is your choice to do so and there is no naming system or binary system to work with regarding it. With regard to sexuality in our society- there is a mandatory binary that you ARE compelled to put yourself in. When you make a profile on a website you are often asked the same questions: Name, Sex, Birthday, Relationship status, sexuality. You'd be hard pressed to find a site which can sum up our innermost desires for food with a neat little system such as homo/hetero. Namely, because nobody really cares and it is not very significant to most people's lives- or more specifically- how they relate to other people.
3rd- If you have unhealthy eating habits, you don't have to be fat- which is where the real stigma comes from with regard to eating habits. You can diet and exercise and your social stigma is gone. Also, you have no identity crisis when you have to turn down that second piece of cake- this is not a morally significant thing to lie about loving or deprive yourself of. If you have a same-sex attraction- you're still gay. The desires themselves are seen as dysfunctional and are stigmatized- not simply the logical conclusion of those desires- as with unhealthy eating habits.
4th- It is morally significant to lie about WHO you love and deprive yourself of love and companionship because you feel that your desire for love and companionship with certain people is a dysfunction. It is morally significant to pretend you love someone you do not truly love because it is not socially acceptable to love someone of the same sex. It is not at all morally significant to lie about WHAT you love to eat or deprive yourself from what you really want to eat.

So to sum up:
Cause/Logical Consequence
A.) Unhealthy desire for food ---leads to----> obesity
B.) Desire for same-sex love ----leads to-----> relationships with those of the same sex.

In A- The cause is not the stigma. The logical consequence is the stigma. Squashing the cause is not morally significant because depriving yourself of foods that you love and eating foods that you don't love are not morally significant things to do. You have no need to lie to anyone. The stigma can successfully and truthfully be avoided. The cause is not considered in the main binaries or categories (age, race, sex, sexuality, etc.) people are compelled to define themselves with in our society.
In B- The cause is the stigma. The logical consequence is the stigma. Squashing the cause is morally significant because depriving yourself of people that you love is morally significant and lying about who you love, especially to those people, is morally significant. The search for love and companionship is a far more important search than the search for food that you like to eat. The stigma can only be avoided with GREAT lies and deception to oneself and others regarding the most basic aspects of our identities. The cause is considered a hugely important aspect of our identities in our society.

Hope that clears it up for you. :)
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
bluesteel
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11/30/2011 8:20:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Oryus refutes the food analogy perfectly.

There are benefits to denying your desire to eat unhealthy food (e.g. live longer, look "sexier", etc). As innomen pointed out already, suppressing your true sexuality has no benefits.

Unless you both believe in God and believe that every word in the Bible is meant to be taken literally. But the reductios using various other passages prove the absurdity of the latter.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)