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Real Life Debate Rounds

cameronl35
Posts: 149
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12/11/2011 9:00:58 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Since I'm new to high school debate I don't know if this is a common problem or not, but after spending my whole entire weekend and a total of 9 debate rounds I made it to the semifinals and a university invitational. In my semifinal round I ended up hitting the first seed. We were debating animal rights and he chose negative. We both agreed on the value of justice but his valid criterion was justice..so he was using circular reasoning (I don't think my judges understood). His contentions were that animals are not just and animals are indifferent to justice so essentially the same thing. He simply just cracked jokes during the round and dropped a whole contention of mine and brought up a new argument in his last speech. The judges ended up giving him the win with a 2-1 decision.

Judges who voted for him: A goth college student wearing all black with a shirt that said "Nuke 'em all!" (as if that doesn't propose a dark background) who gave me an RFD of 10 seconds by restating his Carl Cohen quote and then saying animals are immoral and don't get rights so she voted Neg. Then the other judge sat in the very back of the room and was drinking an energy drink struggling to stay awake and instead his reasoning was HE was arguing against my contentions and proving them wrong. NONE of these two were flowing

Judge who voted for me: Coach of a debate team, said I controlled the Cross X, refuted everything and made stronger points. She didn't flow but she was paying close attention unlike the other two.

Has this ever happened to any of you? I don't know but I am so frustrated right now...I could've made it to the FINALS of a university tournament...What can I do to prevent this?
"They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."
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"MLK day is simply racism against whites."
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Mestari
Posts: 4,656
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12/11/2011 10:45:50 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
A lot of times you will get screwed in debate; however, it sounds to me like you simply don't understand your opponent's argument (no offense, it's impossible to be well-read on everything in debate) and he actually won the round. I suggest contacting him and the judges that voted against you and asking them how his case functioned.
Rules of Mafia

1. Mestari is never third party.
2. If Mestari claims an intricate and page long TP role, he's telling the truth.
3. Mestari always jointly wins with the town.
3b. If he doesn't he's mafia.
3c. If he was mafia you wouldn't suspect him in the first place.
4. If you lynch Mestari you will lose because he will be the third party Doctor or some other townie power role.
5. DP1 lynches are good.
6. The answer is always no.
cameronl35
Posts: 149
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12/11/2011 11:29:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/11/2011 10:45:50 PM, Mestari wrote:
A lot of times you will get screwed in debate; however, it sounds to me like you simply don't understand your opponent's argument (no offense, it's impossible to be well-read on everything in debate) and he actually won the round. I suggest contacting him and the judges that voted against you and asking them how his case functioned.

Well one thing I know that's definitely incorrect is that his valid criterion was Justice and his value was justice..you can not use the sky is blue to prove the sky is blue..it's inherently question-beginning and completely circular
"They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."
-George Carlin (R.I.P.)

"MLK day is simply racism against whites."
-Lordknukle, only a nuance away from Stalin
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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12/12/2011 12:14:58 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Yeah people get robbed all the time. It happens. At regionals last year on the PMC's topic, this guy dropped my genocide advantage and still won. His impacts were "contractors aren't democratic", mine was "solve genocide". He never denied that I prevented genocide, but the judge gave him the ballot because "democracy was what I looked to in this round".
cameronl35
Posts: 149
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12/12/2011 1:06:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/12/2011 12:14:58 AM, BlackVoid wrote:
Yeah people get robbed all the time. It happens. At regionals last year on the PMC's topic, this guy dropped my genocide advantage and still won. His impacts were "contractors aren't democratic", mine was "solve genocide". He never denied that I prevented genocide, but the judge gave him the ballot because "democracy was what I looked to in this round".

Wow...that sucks..was he competent?
"They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."
-George Carlin (R.I.P.)

"MLK day is simply racism against whites."
-Lordknukle, only a nuance away from Stalin
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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12/12/2011 2:52:57 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/12/2011 1:06:44 AM, cameronl35 wrote:
At 12/12/2011 12:14:58 AM, BlackVoid wrote:
Yeah people get robbed all the time. It happens. At regionals last year on the PMC's topic, this guy dropped my genocide advantage and still won. His impacts were "contractors aren't democratic", mine was "solve genocide". He never denied that I prevented genocide, but the judge gave him the ballot because "democracy was what I looked to in this round".

Wow...that sucks..was he competent?

Yeah, he was good. We both spoke pretty well. He did pretty good outside of conceding my main advantage. But thats what should have won it for me. But its cool, not the end of the world.

When you get into varsity level there's a lot more politics. They won't let judges judge people from their school, but they still might have ties to a different school in some way. Some judges have a disposition to vote for anyone from X school because they know people from it. Or they might know a debater in particular kind of well, at which point you would really have to smash them in order to get a W. And if you're facing someone who's well known, well same story. Sometimes these kind of things get in your way but most of the time the outcome is accurate.
BlackVoid
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12/12/2011 2:57:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Btw, I also faced a dumb framework in a novice tournament one time, and it was the finals no less. Our topic was the death penalty. He was like,

"For this debate I value Justice. And to uphold justice I offer the criterion of the maximization of justice"

*shoots self*
thett3
Posts: 14,348
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12/12/2011 4:51:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I've had a round where the team lost by their own framework, and conceded that they lost by their framework, and the judge voted for them anyway.
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

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"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
BlackVoid
Posts: 9,170
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12/12/2011 5:01:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/12/2011 4:51:34 PM, thett3 wrote:
I've had a round where the team lost by their own framework, and conceded that they lost by their framework, and the judge voted for them anyway.

I've got to hear the specifics on this.
cameronl35
Posts: 149
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12/12/2011 5:34:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/12/2011 2:52:57 AM, BlackVoid wrote:
At 12/12/2011 1:06:44 AM, cameronl35 wrote:
At 12/12/2011 12:14:58 AM, BlackVoid wrote:
Yeah people get robbed all the time. It happens. At regionals last year on the PMC's topic, this guy dropped my genocide advantage and still won. His impacts were "contractors aren't democratic", mine was "solve genocide". He never denied that I prevented genocide, but the judge gave him the ballot because "democracy was what I looked to in this round".

Wow...that sucks..was he competent?

Yeah, he was good. We both spoke pretty well. He did pretty good outside of conceding my main advantage. But thats what should have won it for me. But its cool, not the end of the world.

When you get into varsity level there's a lot more politics. They won't let judges judge people from their school, but they still might have ties to a different school in some way. Some judges have a disposition to vote for anyone from X school because they know people from it. Or they might know a debater in particular kind of well, at which point you would really have to smash them in order to get a W. And if you're facing someone who's well known, well same story. Sometimes these kind of things get in your way but most of the time the outcome is accurate.

Well at least he was competent. I just found out that the guy who beat me in semis won but I can't understand why. I went a total of 7-2 in the tourney losing one round in prelims to again an incompetent debater who slimed me in the last speech and the judge just assumed what he said was true. Sigh...is there any way to get prevent it though?
"They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."
-George Carlin (R.I.P.)

"MLK day is simply racism against whites."
-Lordknukle, only a nuance away from Stalin
cameronl35
Posts: 149
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12/12/2011 5:35:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/12/2011 2:57:45 AM, BlackVoid wrote:
Btw, I also faced a dumb framework in a novice tournament one time, and it was the finals no less. Our topic was the death penalty. He was like,

"For this debate I value Justice. And to uphold justice I offer the criterion of the maximization of justice"

*shoots self*

That's almost the same thing I hit. His value was justice and his criterion was "justice for those who comply"...
"They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."
-George Carlin (R.I.P.)

"MLK day is simply racism against whites."
-Lordknukle, only a nuance away from Stalin
cameronl35
Posts: 149
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12/12/2011 5:36:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/12/2011 4:51:34 PM, thett3 wrote:
I've had a round where the team lost by their own framework, and conceded that they lost by their framework, and the judge voted for them anyway.

Wow..was it in prelims?
"They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."
-George Carlin (R.I.P.)

"MLK day is simply racism against whites."
-Lordknukle, only a nuance away from Stalin
thett3
Posts: 14,348
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12/12/2011 6:07:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/12/2011 5:36:56 PM, cameronl35 wrote:
At 12/12/2011 4:51:34 PM, thett3 wrote:
I've had a round where the team lost by their own framework, and conceded that they lost by their framework, and the judge voted for them anyway.

Wow..was it in prelims?

Yeah, we were 3-1 and that caused us to be 3-2 and not break. Sooooo angry.

And Blackvoid I told you remember, they said we needed to vote on whoever was more democratic, then conceded that the EC was less democratic
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
cameronl35
Posts: 149
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12/12/2011 10:03:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/12/2011 6:07:26 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 12/12/2011 5:36:56 PM, cameronl35 wrote:
At 12/12/2011 4:51:34 PM, thett3 wrote:
I've had a round where the team lost by their own framework, and conceded that they lost by their framework, and the judge voted for them anyway.

Wow..was it in prelims?

Yeah, we were 3-1 and that caused us to be 3-2 and not break. Sooooo angry.

And Blackvoid I told you remember, they said we needed to vote on whoever was more democratic, then conceded that the EC was less democratic

Ouch...in Varsity we had a kid get 17th (top 16 break) by .2 speaker points. The who had .2 more speaker points had a bye in his prelims.
"They call it the American Dream because you have to be asleep to believe it."
-George Carlin (R.I.P.)

"MLK day is simply racism against whites."
-Lordknukle, only a nuance away from Stalin
Mestari
Posts: 4,656
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12/13/2011 8:07:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/12/2011 10:03:34 PM, cameronl35 wrote:
At 12/12/2011 6:07:26 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 12/12/2011 5:36:56 PM, cameronl35 wrote:
At 12/12/2011 4:51:34 PM, thett3 wrote:
I've had a round where the team lost by their own framework, and conceded that they lost by their framework, and the judge voted for them anyway.

Wow..was it in prelims?

Yeah, we were 3-1 and that caused us to be 3-2 and not break. Sooooo angry.

And Blackvoid I told you remember, they said we needed to vote on whoever was more democratic, then conceded that the EC was less democratic

Ouch...in Varsity we had a kid get 17th (top 16 break) by .2 speaker points. The who had .2 more speaker points had a bye in his prelims.

Byes are allocated speaker points based on the average of your other rounds. There's no reason to believe he shouldn't have broken.
Rules of Mafia

1. Mestari is never third party.
2. If Mestari claims an intricate and page long TP role, he's telling the truth.
3. Mestari always jointly wins with the town.
3b. If he doesn't he's mafia.
3c. If he was mafia you wouldn't suspect him in the first place.
4. If you lynch Mestari you will lose because he will be the third party Doctor or some other townie power role.
5. DP1 lynches are good.
6. The answer is always no.
Mestari
Posts: 4,656
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12/13/2011 8:09:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 12/12/2011 2:52:57 AM, BlackVoid wrote:
At 12/12/2011 1:06:44 AM, cameronl35 wrote:
At 12/12/2011 12:14:58 AM, BlackVoid wrote:
Yeah people get robbed all the time. It happens. At regionals last year on the PMC's topic, this guy dropped my genocide advantage and still won. His impacts were "contractors aren't democratic", mine was "solve genocide". He never denied that I prevented genocide, but the judge gave him the ballot because "democracy was what I looked to in this round".

Wow...that sucks..was he competent?

Yeah, he was good. We both spoke pretty well. He did pretty good outside of conceding my main advantage. But thats what should have won it for me. But its cool, not the end of the world.

When you get into varsity level there's a lot more politics. They won't let judges judge people from their school, but they still might have ties to a different school in some way. Some judges have a disposition to vote for anyone from X school because they know people from it. Or they might know a debater in particular kind of well, at which point you would really have to smash them in order to get a W. And if you're facing someone who's well known, well same story. Sometimes these kind of things get in your way but most of the time the outcome is accurate.

This.
Rules of Mafia

1. Mestari is never third party.
2. If Mestari claims an intricate and page long TP role, he's telling the truth.
3. Mestari always jointly wins with the town.
3b. If he doesn't he's mafia.
3c. If he was mafia you wouldn't suspect him in the first place.
4. If you lynch Mestari you will lose because he will be the third party Doctor or some other townie power role.
5. DP1 lynches are good.
6. The answer is always no.
WriterSelbe
Posts: 410
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12/13/2011 8:52:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Where I'm from, the judges are typically debate coaches that have judged you a million times before, which actually sucks because then people form reputations with them. One judge hates me now and I keep seeing her over and over again. One round a girl screamed at me after she was speeding and I told her that her case was incomprehensible during my turn for questioning. I asked her a question and she told me she already answered it in the preliminary questions of her case, then I told her that she talked so fast her case was incomprehensible. Then she yelled, "Pay attention when I'm saying my case! I'm sorry I yelled, but seriously!" Then she abruptly sat down and shuffled through her papers angrily.

I actually definitely should have won this round, and not just because she was rude. I pretty much annihilated most of her points, and she was one of those 'I'm going to say I'm right so many times so that the judge thinks I'm right and I don't have to prove anything' people.