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Romance is crazy sh!t, bro.

Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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5/9/2012 1:41:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
I don't really like it. I have a psycho-biological craving for it, but I don't like the way it operates. I have observed a peculiar mental pattern according to which my cognitive abilities decline in direct relation to how happy I am generally. The happier I am, broadly speaking, the less rigorous and careful I tend to become. My tolerance even grows to the point that I am willing to humor poor arguments just out of a desire to make others a bit happier. Often, my mind is keenest when I experience neutral or negative affect. As a student of philosophy and other intellectual arts, my cognitive capacity is extremely important to me.

I am tormented nevertheless by a desire for a romantic partner. There is an emptiness--a profound sense of loneliness--that corresponds to the absence of a companion with whom I can, in a context of maximum intimacy, share my experiences, hopes, fears, successes, failures, and so on. Even the closest of friends do not have access to this domain. The feeling of being alone--and the intuitive revulsion against the possibility that this state is inescapable--is sometimes almost too much to think about. Whenever I am forced to consider the issue, I am always already mentally exhausted by it. The cynicism and jadedness that I often feel toward romantic partnership assumes the character of a resigned "tiredness" whose effect can be overwhelming.

This craving--and the feelings of shame and unsatisfied longing which accompany it, among others--is paired also with the fear that, even finding satisfaction in a partner, I would lose the intellectual edge which in the first place brought me to where I sit currently. Hence the aporia: it seems as though, regardless of which road I take, I am forced to give up something critical to my own existential contentment.

The other concern, as is perhaps common with people who share my way of thinking, is that I don't even have much to offer potential partners. It is not that I have never been involved--rather, that, for any potentially fulfilling romantic relationship, I fall very short of what might be required. I'm not wealthy (I don't even own a vehicle), I'm not particularly attractive, my sense of humor is often crude and offensive, I have a passionate distaste for small talk and other social protocol, I am not often emotionally expressive in the manner expected of a romantic partner, and, as a meta-level concern, my self-confidence in the domain of romance is not particularly flattering (which tends to produce an exceptional shyness when talking to potential romantic partners, in stark contrast to the confidence my friends attribute to me in ordinary situations). And, really, even given my academic commitment to complex thought, I am not abnormally intelligent, an admission which robs me of my "best" asset. I don't think, by any metric, that I would be "good enough" for anyone who would make a good partner.

Before the thread devolves into iterations of "just man up" or "don't be such a pvssy, dude", I want to make clear that I am actually trusting this information to the site's collective dialectical wisdom, whatever that happens to be worth (I am actually unsure). On a site like this, I suspect there must be at least some with similar experiences, and perhaps even success stories. These are the individuals with whom I need to speak, and from whom I hopefully can learn something.
Ragnar_Rahl
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5/9/2012 1:44:44 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Find a woman who wants you as a sub.

You have a romantic partner, but you won't be huddled into imagined dreary suburban domestic contentment.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
FREEDO
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5/9/2012 1:48:35 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Amen brother. I used to have that exact problem. Needing to be in love with the one. Which resulted in my getting deeper with those I hooked up with than I should have.

But then I somehow got over it. I wish I could type out a paragraph explaining how. But I really have no idea.

Fuck buddies is where it's at.
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Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,484
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5/9/2012 1:54:39 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 1:48:35 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Amen brother. I used to have that exact problem. Needing to be in love with the one. Which resulted in my getting deeper with those I hooked up with than I should have.

But then I somehow got over it. I wish I could type out a paragraph explaining how. But I really have no idea.

Fuck buddies is where it's at.

Well, it isn't necessarily that I have some burning need to find "the one", in the sense that there is some transcendent order according to which I have been paired with some other soul or something--I am perfectly content with a relationship which is sufficient in its own right, and which doesn't require construction through some weird metaphysical operation. I mean, I did a lot of sleeping around my freshman year of college--it was pretty good at first, but it eventually became extremely unfulfilling as I began also to have the desire to access that special realm of intimacy. Obviously, I can think about those most central issues myself, but there is also a need, facilitated through the model of the "sufficient relationship", to validate and open those concerns intersubjectively with a particular partner in a particular context. And that coincides precisely with the kind of relationship which I want, but which I cannot have with satisfaction and for which I am entirely unqualified.
Kleptin
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5/9/2012 6:01:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Welcome to humanity. That's why I left DDO for 9 months. Falling in love will make you question why we put logic and reason on a goddamn pedestal.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Chrysippus
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5/9/2012 6:50:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 1:41:05 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
*describes my situation fairly well*

When you know the answer, tell me.

For years I've avoided romance and worked my tail off in a vain attempt to provide a living, in the hope that, someday, I would be able to support a family. I've never had anything to offer a woman, except a nice personality; with nothing to give, how could I ask anyone to share my life?

So the wall of the hermitage grow taller, and the mental and social isolation grows deeper; and year by year a deepening fear that the loneliness will never end pervades everything.

I wouldn't even know what to say, wouldn't know how to approach the issue, if it ever came down to it. I've avoided the subject of affection so long that even if I broke my rule tomorrow I would be lost trying to start a relationship with anyone.

The biological imperative is a harsh master when denied. I see no reason why it may ever be fulfilled in my case; hopefully your story ends better.
Cavete mea inexorabilis legiones mimus!
thett3
Posts: 14,378
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5/9/2012 7:02:54 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
If you act confident than the girls will come around, especially if you're willing to settle for one that isnt "perfect" (as if that exists). Confidence is key.

But if you go on and act like some profound intellectual (as you undoubtedly are (: ) who can't get girls because he has nothing to offer, what could you possibly expect them to see in you? You never said how you project yourself, but if you're going to show off your weaknesses instead of strengths you have no one to blame but yourself for not being successful.
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tulle
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5/9/2012 9:48:02 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Marry me, Cody.

In all seriousness your OP was very well written and I'm currently in the same predicament. Vascillating between wanting to make things work and wanting to just say eff it all, I don't need this. I don't have an answer for you and, unfortunately, I don't think there is one.
yang.
popculturepooka
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5/9/2012 10:48:44 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 9:48:02 PM, tulle wrote:
Marry me, Cody.

In all seriousness your OP was very well written and I'm currently in the same predicament. Vascillating between wanting to make things work and wanting to just say eff it all, I don't need this. I don't have an answer for you and, unfortunately, I don't think there is one.

I think it's a common situation for us 20 somethings. :/
At 10/3/2016 11:49:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
BLACK LIVES MATTER!
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/9/2012 11:19:42 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
(Sorry in advance for the novella.)

Cody, your post has 2 points:

1. You think being happy (and/or preoccupied with romance) inhibits your cognitive abilities and

2. You don't care - You want a partner anyway, though lack the self-confidence and perhaps attributes you think are necessary to attract someone in the first place.

While I understand your first point, this wouldn't necessarily be the case depending on who you wind up dating. In fact you could date someone who teaches you A LOT, even if it's not intellectual in nature (philosophy or book smarts). You could meet someone who teaches you a lot about life, love, yourself, how to be in a relationship, etc. And let me tell you something -- those things are just as important. You admit that you don't excel in social or emotional intelligence, but it would be naive to suggest that those things don't matter in terms of both personal relationships (happiness) and even the professional world.

When I think about my relationship with Vi, I can honestly say that I have never met anyone who taught or challenged me more on an intellectual level than she has. I think she would say the same about me. Also while I taught her a lot about others, she taught me a lot about myself. So you see, you can be happy AND smart lol. You can be with someone who makes you better, makes you wiser.

Second, while it's true that confidence is key, it's easy to tell someone to be confident but obviously you can't just turn on a light switch and say "Hey! I'm awesome and you should wanna date me!" So first let me start by dismantling a lot of your insecure bullsh!t. I say that because it's bullsh!t. I think you have a lot to offer. Nobody expects you to be wealthy as a college student (and those with cars, their parents probably bought it for them... big deal, the lucky bastids). And you ARE smart. Perhaps you're not solving physics equations all over the place or boasting a pre-med major or whatever. But it's pretty obvious to everyone that you're not only a bright guy, but much smarter (and nicer) than most. I think you have a great sense of humor; perhaps the girls you know just don't get it. I also despise small talk (so I compensate with flirting lol).

You're very witty and clever. I also get the sense that you could be very charming. You should just apply whatever charisma you use when chatting with me (cuz you have some whether you know it or not) and apply it to talking to girls. Make them smile. Also expand your social circle. You will network and meet girls that way. Don't be scared of the Friend Zone because even if you're not right for some girls, they probably have a friend(s) that would be interested. Stay positive.

Finally I'd say that darkkermit actually makes a good point. I've never used a dating website (I'm terrified to even browse them because apparently they're big amongst the gays, and god help me if I run into an ex on there), but I know a handful of people who have had good luck with them. My only concern is whether or not younger people use them (again I have no idea) or if people start once they graduate college, since it becomes harder to meet others then. But the great thing about this tool is that (a) the people who respond to you will probably find you somewhat attractive; and (b) you know they're open to dating so I think flirty conversation would be less awkward because it's expected. I also think you could really benefit from going out on a couple of dates. I think the taboo of meeting people online is diminishing significantly, and I personally don't see why it's a big deal. I met the person who is probably the love of my life online through a shared interest of debate... *Shrugs* Who knew.

Don't obsess or distress about your current status. Just keep an open mind and make small steps to expand your circle and thus opportunities. Finding a girl with similar interests (if possible) would be great - say a girl in your philosophy classes or something. Or DDO. We have straight girls now FYI :P
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Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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5/9/2012 11:49:59 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 11:45:47 PM, Rockylightning wrote:
Sometimes it just does come down to having to "man up".

Whatever that means.
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OMGJustinBieber
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5/10/2012 12:50:03 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At least you have that desire. I don't know if it's because I'm loaded up on adderall for finals week, but it just seems like it hasn't kicked in yet for me and last time I checked I'm like 2 years older than you. Also, fcuk intelligence. That's right - not all the way, but still, fcuk it. I feel way too many people acquire intelligence to be able to debate better and make yourself look better (I'm guilty of this). The reasons behind the intelligence are obviously important, and too often it seems it's just to measure e-d1cks on DDO. The drive for academic intelligence can imprison you if you're not careful.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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5/10/2012 1:48:05 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 11:19:42 PM, Danielle wrote:
We have straight girls now FYI :P

haha! I think most of us are taken ;)

But dating websites are good! I have a few twenty something friends who met their current spouses online. Two of the couples have kids together.

You get to scope them out first and you can connect knowing that you already agree on "big issues" ... if that is what important to you anyway.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Ren
Posts: 7,102
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5/10/2012 4:02:32 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 1:41:05 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
I don't really like it...my own existential contentment.

It's okay to want a relationship, lol. It doesn't necessarily need to make sense metalogically. There are things that women bring to men's life, and men instinctively know that these things exist, even if he doesn't rationally acknowledge them. Nonetheless, I notice people often bounce between a sort of "why did I ever want to tie myself down to one person" and "God, being single makes me want to kill myself" until they find the right person. I figure that's natural, too, for a race of primates that never really seems to escape adolescence. So, expect to be dissatisfied the first couple of times you finally get your holy grail, unless you luck out and she's awesome. But, chances are, you'll annoy each other after a while, because that's just what happens until you find someone with whom you're truly compatible.

The other concern...hopefully can learn something.

Getting Vagina 101, Course Overview? Alright, I'll give it a shot.

It's good that I get to read through your concerns first, so I can see where you stand with your preconceived notions and whatnot. For example, you listed attributes that women find attractive as though they were requirements (such as money and appearance). Lol, btw, Danielle made a thread recently http://www.debate.org... approaching something like this, and I'm pretty much going to contradict everything she said. You can choose for yourself which interpretation you rely on more, no hard feelings. :P

Anyway, you should know that it isn't true. You and I have both seen many ugly ass guys pull that baddest girls. It isn't even really clear what makes a man handsome. You don't need money, either. In some circles, spending a lot of money on a girl that you're not dating is called "tricking on" a girl... the implication is that she's using you, and it's true. You don't need to spend a whole lot of money while you're getting to know a girl.

Now, this is basically the formula to... well, getting closer to some stability in your love life, anyway.

1. Exercise.

I don't know if you do, you don't need to do defend yourself, and if you're already a prime athlete, then bully for you -- you're already a much larger step ahead than you realize.

However, if you do not exercise, then begin exercising immediately. Why shouldn't you keep yourself together? It'll improve on your confidence tenfold, as well. Take up a sport or athletic activity (running, biking, Basic Training, prostitution, whatever).

2. Learn how to dress/Keep yourself together.

A girl doesn't want to walk around with a mess. She wants a guy that complements her 'arrangement.' Every girl, in some regard, is an artist painting her appearance to the rest of the world, and every time you're walking hand-in-hand, you're an ornament in said arrangement. If you dress like you're stupid, she's going to treat you like you're stupid. Find a decent, mature watch, some polos, some nice jeans, and don't wear anything older than the abortion line for Royal (lmfao, too soon? xD).

Or, really, not even that old.

And, hygiene is paramount. Girls really do think axe smells good. Deodorant. Shower once or twice a day. Never have bad breath. Keep your nails together and clean and don't bit them. Shave, if you should. Mustaches aren't cool anymore. Long hair is generally a no. Never do your eyebrows. Wash your face and behind your ears with exfoliant. Wash your hair frequently, condition it every time. Never use gel. Learn how to deal with blemishes.

I'm just saying. I notice that most guys just don't seem to know this, and trust me, girls notice.

3. Be confident.

When you approach a girl, you're going to need to be confident about it. Otherwise, she is going to consider you a waste of time. Some girls go for the whole shy thing, but think about it -- if you're shy, then most, if not all relationships are going to be made circumstantially. It's natural that a woman loses interest when a guy doesn't even let on that he's interested.

When I say be confident, what I mean is, don't think about who you are in the cosmic sense of the Universe. Approaching a girl isn't like judgment under God after death or something. It's just meeting a new human being. Speak to her like you would speak to some dude at the bus stop. However, if you know that you're sometimes disrespectful, and you want her to like you, then obviously, don't be disrespectful, asshole.

That leads me to my last point:

4. Be realistic.

Tell me -- do you like every single person you meet? Chances are, your answer is no. I know I don't, lol.

The point is that, really, a relationship is kind of a big thing. It comes with all sorts of implications. Spending a lot of time around the person, spending money on the person, being intimate with the person -- I mean, you need to really like them.

After spending some time around each other(and perhaps, fucking a couple times), it becomes imperative that you really like each other for the relationship to continue. Relationships often end at this point because, even if you kind of like each other, you still don't like one another enough for the relationship to continue.

Moreover, you don't like the way everyone looks, either, do you? C'mon -- just as there are the beauties, there are the uglies.

So, there's just not a statistical likelihood that you're going to mesh with every girl you meet. Don't take every -- or any, for that matter -- rejection personally. It's just the luck of the draw. This girl is that way, and you're this way, and it just didn't work -- moving on. It isn't a statement on anything.

You're some girl's flavor, and she will find you. When she likes you, she'll let you know it. That will be your cue to act -- pursue her respectfully, but confidently. Be nice, make her laugh, and flatter her, and it'll all work out.

It takes time to get the hang of it, and you should start by just being generally social. You're not going to meet a girl in your bedroom. Eventually, you can begin to discern what sort of thing you're into, and how to get it.

Once you are with a woman, though, make sure you figure out the mechanics of her anatomy. There really is a g spot, learn how to synchronize thrusts with rubbing her clit, and there's also a spot in the back that you should try to get if she's really enjoying herself and is open enough to that it doesn't hurt her, if you can reach. If you can't learn how to give head and you'll be fine, but obviously, don't do that for everyone.

Questions?
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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5/10/2012 11:47:36 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ren is either a flaming homosexual or a flaming metrosexual... Can't tell which. :)
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
innomen
Posts: 10,052
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5/10/2012 1:43:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At this point you probably aren't willing to make the sacrifices and the compromises needed for a relationship. Eventually the level of desperation reaches a point where you will make those changes, but odds are there will be a lot of trial and error involved. When you do find love, it will change how you see EVERYTHING, and all your values will be reorganized.

I really liked Kleptin's comments.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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5/10/2012 1:53:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/10/2012 1:43:38 PM, innomen wrote:
At this point you probably aren't willing to make the sacrifices and the compromises needed for a relationship. Eventually the level of desperation reaches a point where you will make those changes, but odds are there will be a lot of trial and error involved. When you do find love, it will change how you see EVERYTHING, and all your values will be reorganized.

I really liked Kleptin's comments.

this love thing is starting to sound like a bad thing now.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
innomen
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5/10/2012 1:56:23 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/10/2012 1:53:07 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 5/10/2012 1:43:38 PM, innomen wrote:
At this point you probably aren't willing to make the sacrifices and the compromises needed for a relationship. Eventually the level of desperation reaches a point where you will make those changes, but odds are there will be a lot of trial and error involved. When you do find love, it will change how you see EVERYTHING, and all your values will be reorganized.

I really liked Kleptin's comments.

this love thing is starting to sound like a bad thing now.

Nah, pain is good.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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5/10/2012 2:02:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/10/2012 1:56:23 PM, innomen wrote:
At 5/10/2012 1:53:07 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 5/10/2012 1:43:38 PM, innomen wrote:
At this point you probably aren't willing to make the sacrifices and the compromises needed for a relationship. Eventually the level of desperation reaches a point where you will make those changes, but odds are there will be a lot of trial and error involved. When you do find love, it will change how you see EVERYTHING, and all your values will be reorganized.

I really liked Kleptin's comments.

this love thing is starting to sound like a bad thing now.

Nah, pain is good.

I can see how romance can change one behaviorally. I've just watched a video on "the vampire economist" explaining the role of oxytocin has on behavior. Oxytocin would increase in a romantic relationship. And i know my oxytocin levels are incredibly low.
Open borders debate:
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Oryus
Posts: 8,280
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5/10/2012 5:21:10 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Eh, there are pro's and con's to both being single and being in a relationship. Sometimes I envy single people.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Thaddeus
Posts: 6,985
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5/11/2012 5:15:45 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Ren, what kind of conditioner do you use? I've been using this Tahitian flower oil based conditioner, but it is totally time for a change dahling.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
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5/11/2012 9:18:11 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/9/2012 11:49:59 PM, Danielle wrote:
At 5/9/2012 11:45:47 PM, Rockylightning wrote:
Sometimes it just does come down to having to "man up".

Whatever that means.

You know.......just take a hit, or take the high road.
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PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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5/11/2012 9:20:37 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/11/2012 5:15:45 AM, Thaddeus wrote:
Ren, what kind of conditioner do you use? I've been using this Tahitian flower oil based conditioner, but it is totally time for a change dahling.:

I actually quite literally laughed out loud :)

Remember, Thad, the secret to a woman's heart is coconut oil and cucumber extract.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Cermank
Posts: 3,773
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5/11/2012 1:55:40 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Just by reading this thread, it almost seems like you dislike performing or entering the social manoeuvres, if the sole reason of that is to make people like you. This isn't really a help me thread, by the looks of it.

I do understand your POV though. Its something of an ego clash when you have went through your entire life with a fvck people, 'i strive for excellence' attitude, and then you realize that subconsciously you DO want the very thing you despise other people for. I mean, i check my Facebook posts to see if they have at least 6 likes :/

anyway, all I can say is - Just go on with your life the way you want to- the romantic interests you'd meet on the way would be a better match than ones you'd go out of your way to please.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,325
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5/15/2012 11:51:59 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/11/2012 5:15:45 AM, Thaddeus wrote:
Ren, what kind of conditioner do you use? I've been using this Tahitian flower oil based conditioner, but it is totally time for a change dahling.

ha!