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On Suicide

ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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5/14/2012 9:07:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Lately I've been hearing a lot of "you caused this person to kill themselves", "people like you cause people to take their own lives" ... and I'm not just talking about DDO I've heard it outside of here too and I find it disturbing for a few reasons.

1. It's a cowardly thing to say

Even in the throes of death and the potential to end it all you can't even take responsibility for your own actions. Sure, I agree people can make other people's lives a living hell but in that one moment of death only one person pulled the trigger. One person jumps. Blaming suicide on others is disingenuous. I don't believe it can be done. In the end you make your own decisions.

2. Guilty by association

Recently, someone who I thought was a friend, accused me of "killing gays" and "destroying lives" because I am not Pro-Gay. He insinuated that because I didn't agree with him I was as bad as the hazers, the bullies and the monsters who do harm people out there. This was hurtful and ridiculous. I don't think that an idea can be blamed for this either. Yes, people who bully might share the same idea but the two aren't connected. I felt it frustrating that my "friend" could do this in good conscious. I have never bullied in my life yet was accused of killing people I don't even know.

Anyways, this was my little spiel about suicide. I may sound insensitive but this is how I feel. In the end, own up. Only you are responsible for your own actions.
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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5/14/2012 9:09:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 9:07:17 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Lately I've been hearing a lot of "you caused this person to kill themselves", "people like you cause people to take their own lives" ... and I'm not just talking about DDO I've heard it outside of here too and I find it disturbing for a few reasons.

Actions have implications . . . if someone is destroying another person's life and mentally torturing him or her, he is responsible for this . . .
1. It's a cowardly thing to say

Even in the throes of death and the potential to end it all you can't even take responsibility for your own actions. Sure, I agree people can make other people's lives a living hell but in that one moment of death only one person pulled the trigger. One person jumps. Blaming suicide on others is disingenuous. I don't believe it can be done. In the end you make your own decisions.

2. Guilty by association

Recently, someone who I thought was a friend, accused me of "killing gays" and "destroying lives" because I am not Pro-Gay. He insinuated that because I didn't agree with him I was as bad as the hazers, the bullies and the monsters who do harm people out there. This was hurtful and ridiculous. I don't think that an idea can be blamed for this either. Yes, people who bully might share the same idea but the two aren't connected. I felt it frustrating that my "friend" could do this in good conscious. I have never bullied in my life yet was accused of killing people I don't even know.

Anyways, this was my little spiel about suicide. I may sound insensitive but this is how I feel. In the end, own up. Only you are responsible for your own actions.
thett3
Posts: 14,352
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5/14/2012 9:10:34 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net...
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/14/2012 9:49:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 9:09:16 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
Actions have implications . . . if someone is destroying another person's life and mentally torturing him or her, he is responsible for this . . .
That would be dangerous to do. Using physical force against someone leaves clear signs that your physical attacks lead to such-and-such results. With mental damage, that's not the case. If we were to say, imprison people for life for committing mental crimes, then we'd sentence countless innocent people. In short, we can't know for a certain whether a person was affected negatively by another, thus legal punishment for most mental crimes would be absurd.
M.Torres
Posts: 3,626
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5/14/2012 9:58:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I think back to the Debate resolved from last year involving Cyber-bullying. You really can't be blamed for someone committing suicide.
: At 11/28/2011 1:28:24 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
: M. Torres said it, so it must be right.

I'm an Apatheistic Ignostic. ... problem? ;D

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vmpire321
Posts: 4,731
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5/14/2012 11:40:28 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 9:45:17 PM, PeacefulChaos wrote:
At 5/14/2012 9:10:34 PM, thett3 wrote:
http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net...

I looked at his hatemail.

He should meet imabench.

Lol, that's a lot of hate mail. o.0
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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5/14/2012 11:41:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 9:07:17 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Lately I've been hearing a lot of "you caused this person to kill themselves", "people like you cause people to take their own lives" ... and I'm not just talking about DDO I've heard it outside of here too and I find it disturbing for a few reasons.

1. It's a cowardly thing to say

Even in the throes of death and the potential to end it all you can't even take responsibility for your own actions. Sure, I agree people can make other people's lives a living hell but in that one moment of death only one person pulled the trigger. One person jumps. Blaming suicide on others is disingenuous. I don't believe it can be done. In the end you make your own decisions.

I disagree wholeheartedly. It is entirely possible for someone's actions to be the direct cause of another's suicide. In such cases, it is appropriate to blame the former, to an extent, for the unstable mental state of the latter. I'm not speaking legally here, mind you, but psychologically.
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Jon1
Posts: 314
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5/15/2012 1:50:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/14/2012 11:41:29 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 5/14/2012 9:07:17 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
Lately I've been hearing a lot of "you caused this person to kill themselves", "people like you cause people to take their own lives" ... and I'm not just talking about DDO I've heard it outside of here too and I find it disturbing for a few reasons.

1. It's a cowardly thing to say

Even in the throes of death and the potential to end it all you can't even take responsibility for your own actions. Sure, I agree people can make other people's lives a living hell but in that one moment of death only one person pulled the trigger. One person jumps. Blaming suicide on others is disingenuous. I don't believe it can be done. In the end you make your own decisions.

I disagree wholeheartedly. It is entirely possible for someone's actions to be the direct cause of another's suicide. In such cases, it is appropriate to blame the former, to an extent, for the unstable mental state of the latter. I'm not speaking legally here, mind you, but psychologically.

How is person x supposed to know that person y is mentally fucked up?
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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5/15/2012 5:30:42 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
If suicide is done because of personal reason, it is selfish (like many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many, actions), and fine. You can say "I wouldn't have done that myself in that situation" as an outsider all you want, but if someone wants to commit suicide, they can go ahead from personal choice. Instead of "running from the consequences", they are simply ending it all. The consequences may be worse than death for that individual, and in that case, they can, and arguably should, commit suicide.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
Stephen_Hawkins
Posts: 5,316
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5/15/2012 5:31:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
That said, many of the "I'm going to commit suicide" statements are used for personal attention, rather than serious issues.
Give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. Teach him how to be Gay, he'll positively influence the GDP.

Social Contract Theory debate: http://www.debate.org...
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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5/15/2012 8:09:20 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/15/2012 5:31:18 AM, Stephen_Hawkins wrote:
That said, many of the "I'm going to commit suicide" statements are used for personal attention, rather than serious issues.

I agree.

The real suicidal people never say anything they just up and off themselves.

If you tell someone you're obviously not too serious because telling someone will provoke actions to stop you which is probably the real goal.
yoda878
Posts: 902
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5/16/2012 2:34:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
This is actually a hard topic for me. No one can cause someone to kill themselves, but a person that does this has had some hurt. Their is more hurt then there is resources, for that person.

I may get kicked for saying this, but i look at Gay as a sickness, or a struggle, or a temptation one must overcome and get help with. Kind of like an alcoholic, people talk bad about them and make them feel hurt. When what they need is help.
There that's it.
Me
tkubok
Posts: 5,044
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5/16/2012 3:00:14 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 5/16/2012 2:34:51 PM, yoda878 wrote:
This is actually a hard topic for me. No one can cause someone to kill themselves, but a person that does this has had some hurt. Their is more hurt then there is resources, for that person.

I may get kicked for saying this, but i look at Gay as a sickness, or a struggle, or a temptation one must overcome and get help with. Kind of like an alcoholic, people talk bad about them and make them feel hurt. When what they need is help.
There that's it.

That kind of view of homosexuality is what makes homosexuals become suicidal.

Its like being told that being fat is wrong. Some people try and try, they go on diets, they spend money and try various weight loss programs and gyms, but they just cant seem to lose their fat. People like that become deppressed and try to kill themselves.

We need to be telling them the opposite, because its not wrong, its simply human nature, just like being bald, or being fat.

I cannot find a single reason other than "Because the bible says this" that actually demonstrates that Homosexuality is necessarily wrong. There isnt a single valid argument regarding this.