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My Dramatic Shift In Politics

FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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9/10/2012 4:56:18 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Finally this thread comes. I am well overdo for a complete rehaul of my political thought. As old members are accustomed to me traditionally rolling one of these puppies out every few...oh, say, 15 minutes.

However, the the tardiness of the change is not the only thing which makes this change special. I think I can honestly say that this change is the single most radical single shift in politics that I have ever taken.

Why? Because for the very first time in my political history, I am actually comparatively moderate. True, I haven't really held any specific political view recently, but my whole form of thought for how I understood politics still revolved around my age old problem that I often identified but continued to ignore or rationalize, which is that I seem to gravitate towards radical or purist solutions. Libertarian. Anarchist. Communist. Socialist. Always looking for the next untried fringe.

This is an issue I see with a lot of people on DDO. Both because they smart, as well as young. This gives heightened impulse for fundamentalist theorism. We're always trying to sum things up to a grand pattern; a simplistic narrative to explain away the troubles in the world. All the better that we may cling to this idealized hero in whom we are so assured by our fool proof axioms.

But now I have a new ally. I've replaced long hours of theorizing with long hours of honest fact finding. And it does things to a person.

I've realized that anyone who attempts to create solutions purely out of a straight-forward and uber-refined ideology is going to run into inherent problems with such a thing. The world is not a simple place. Chaos is the only rule. The actual solutions are mismatched and, at times, seemingly contradictory. They especially don't seem to cling purely towards the lines of any organized ideology.

The philosophical undertoes aside, what are my actual views? Well, it's still a work in progress, as it always will and always should be. But there are some general themes that have emerged out of this new train of thought. For the first time in quite awhile, I'm fundamentally pro business. Interestingly enough, I'm also fundamentally pro government for the first time in awhile. For the first time in ever, I'm actually mostly approving of the president. Though I still won't be voting for him, as I don't see the voting system as adequate and I also have large enough issues with his foreign policy that I would still vote third party if I even took voting seriously. If you were to insist on labeling me, I suppose you could go with Pragmatic Progressive.

Take bets on my next move, anyone? Fascism? Probably Fascism. Heil The Nipple Fairy!!
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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9/10/2012 3:26:17 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/10/2012 4:56:18 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Finally this thread comes. I am well overdo for a complete rehaul of my political thought. As old members are accustomed to me traditionally rolling one of these puppies out every few...oh, say, 15 minutes.

However, the the tardiness of the change is not the only thing which makes this change special. I think I can honestly say that this change is the single most radical single shift in politics that I have ever taken.

Why? Because for the very first time in my political history, I am actually comparatively moderate. True, I haven't really held any specific political view recently, but my whole form of thought for how I understood politics still revolved around my age old problem that I often identified but continued to ignore or rationalize, which is that I seem to gravitate towards radical or purist solutions. Libertarian. Anarchist. Communist. Socialist. Always looking for the next untried fringe.

This is an issue I see with a lot of people on DDO. Both because they smart, as well as young. This gives heightened impulse for fundamentalist theorism. We're always trying to sum things up to a grand pattern; a simplistic narrative to explain away the troubles in the world. All the better that we may cling to this idealized hero in whom we are so assured by our fool proof axioms.

But now I have a new ally. I've replaced long hours of theorizing with long hours of honest fact finding. And it does things to a person.

I've realized that anyone who attempts to create solutions purely out of a straight-forward and uber-refined ideology is going to run into inherent problems with such a thing. The world is not a simple place. Chaos is the only rule. The actual solutions are mismatched and, at times, seemingly contradictory. They especially don't seem to cling purely towards the lines of any organized ideology.

The philosophical undertoes aside, what are my actual views? Well, it's still a work in progress, as it always will and always should be. But there are some general themes that have emerged out of this new train of thought. For the first time in quite awhile, I'm fundamentally pro business. Interestingly enough, I'm also fundamentally pro government for the first time in awhile. For the first time in ever, I'm actually mostly approving of the president. Though I still won't be voting for him, as I don't see the voting system as adequate and I also have large enough issues with his foreign policy that I would still vote third party if I even took voting seriously. If you were to insist on labeling me, I suppose you could go with Pragmatic Progressive.

Take bets on my next move, anyone? Fascism? Probably Fascism. Heil The Nipple Fairy!!

Already taken by YYW. Sorry.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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9/10/2012 6:21:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/10/2012 3:26:17 PM, MouthWash wrote:
Already taken by YYW. Sorry.

Ah, but would he force everyone to take psychedelic drugs?!
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
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9/10/2012 6:54:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/10/2012 4:56:18 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Finally this thread comes. I am well overdo for a complete rehaul of my political thought. As old members are accustomed to me traditionally rolling one of these puppies out every few...oh, say, 15 minutes.

However, the the tardiness of the change is not the only thing which makes this change special. I think I can honestly say that this change is the single most radical single shift in politics that I have ever taken.

Why? Because for the very first time in my political history, I am actually comparatively moderate. True, I haven't really held any specific political view recently, but my whole form of thought for how I understood politics still revolved around my age old problem that I often identified but continued to ignore or rationalize, which is that I seem to gravitate towards radical or purist solutions. Libertarian. Anarchist. Communist. Socialist. Always looking for the next untried fringe.

This is an issue I see with a lot of people on DDO. Both because they smart, as well as young. This gives heightened impulse for fundamentalist theorism. We're always trying to sum things up to a grand pattern; a simplistic narrative to explain away the troubles in the world. All the better that we may cling to this idealized hero in whom we are so assured by our fool proof axioms.

But now I have a new ally. I've replaced long hours of theorizing with long hours of honest fact finding. And it does things to a person.

I've realized that anyone who attempts to create solutions purely out of a straight-forward and uber-refined ideology is going to run into inherent problems with such a thing. The world is not a simple place. Chaos is the only rule. The actual solutions are mismatched and, at times, seemingly contradictory. They especially don't seem to cling purely towards the lines of any organized ideology.

The philosophical undertoes aside, what are my actual views? Well, it's still a work in progress, as it always will and always should be. But there are some general themes that have emerged out of this new train of thought. For the first time in quite awhile, I'm fundamentally pro business. Interestingly enough, I'm also fundamentally pro government for the first time in awhile. For the first time in ever, I'm actually mostly approving of the president. Though I still won't be voting for him, as I don't see the voting system as adequate and I also have large enough issues with his foreign policy that I would still vote third party if I even took voting seriously. If you were to insist on labeling me, I suppose you could go with Pragmatic Progressive.

Take bets on my next move, anyone? Fascism? Probably Fascism. Heil The Nipple Fairy!!

I think you'll become a Sidewalkerist next.

I'm not Catholic, but next time there's an opening I'm running for Pope as an independant..and .I'm counting on your support.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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9/14/2012 12:04:21 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why are you now pro-government?
"Caitlyn Jenner is an incredibly brave and stunningly beautiful woman."

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GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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9/14/2012 12:46:33 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
May I suggest you join me as a Libertarian Totalitarian?
"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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9/14/2012 5:05:41 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why pro-government? And by pro-business do you mean in the sense that the US is pro-business by erecting tariffs, giving special favors, etc for business or in the sense that you are pro-free market?
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Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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9/14/2012 5:19:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 12:04:21 AM, tvellalott wrote:
Why are you now pro-government?

I realized that the conception I had of government was really quite childish. It was all a romanticized demonization that turned the government, by theory, into an inherent evil. But that's absurd. You could make some case in theory how government is the nothing but the ultimate thug, but in practical application, it truly often is not.

The primary shift I've made in all of this is distancing myself from building my understand upon a foundation of theory as a starting point. That's not how theories are supposed to work. Theories are meant to only fill in the gaps between the pure facts that we have, which really are not as easily understood or expansive as any fundamentalist theory would suggest the world can be understood as.

Thinking stops where ideology begins.

So to be more clear in answering your question, I would say that I am pro government because the most practical solutions in day to day problems that we face can arise, in a variety of ways, out of government, as seems to follow from my current understanding of the facts.

At 9/14/2012 5:05:41 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
And by pro-business do you mean in the sense that the US is pro-business by erecting tariffs, giving special favors, etc for business or in the sense that you are pro-free market?

I don't think tariffs are very appropriate. And I'm not pro free-market. But I am pro Capitalism. In the sense that I think the majority of things would be most efficiently run through profit seeking structures held privately.

In my current ideal vision of an economy, every person would own their own business or otherwise be self employed and labor would be done through automation.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/27/2012 5:57:19 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 5:19:36 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 9/14/2012 5:05:41 AM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
And by pro-business do you mean in the sense that the US is pro-business by erecting tariffs, giving special favors, etc for business or in the sense that you are pro-free market?

I don't think tariffs are very appropriate. And I'm not pro free-market. But I am pro Capitalism. In the sense that I think the majority of things would be most efficiently run through profit seeking structures held privately.

What has happened to you!?!?

In my current ideal vision of an economy, every person would own their own business or otherwise be self employed and labor would be done through automation.

Mutualism bro.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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9/27/2012 6:02:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
My ideal economy is a neo-Capitalism where the primary means of income for the majority of citizens is in personal business-ownership run without human labor.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/27/2012 6:02:53 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/27/2012 6:02:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
My ideal economy is a neo-Capitalism where the primary means of income for the majority of citizens is in personal business-ownership run without human labor.

I'm pretty sure that's mutualism man. You know, Proudhon, Tucker, Carson and all those other motherfvckers?
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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9/27/2012 6:03:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/27/2012 6:02:53 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/27/2012 6:02:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
My ideal economy is a neo-Capitalism where the primary means of income for the majority of citizens is in personal business-ownership run without human labor.

I'm pretty sure that's mutualism man. You know, Proudhon, Tucker, Carson and all those other motherfvckers?

Yes, it is.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/27/2012 6:04:41 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/27/2012 6:03:30 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 9/27/2012 6:02:53 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/27/2012 6:02:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
My ideal economy is a neo-Capitalism where the primary means of income for the majority of citizens is in personal business-ownership run without human labor.

I'm pretty sure that's mutualism man. You know, Proudhon, Tucker, Carson and all those other motherfvckers?

Yes, it is.

*high five*
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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9/27/2012 6:12:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/27/2012 6:04:41 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/27/2012 6:03:30 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 9/27/2012 6:02:53 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/27/2012 6:02:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
My ideal economy is a neo-Capitalism where the primary means of income for the majority of citizens is in personal business-ownership run without human labor.

I'm pretty sure that's mutualism man. You know, Proudhon, Tucker, Carson and all those other motherfvckers?

Yes, it is.

*high five*

*secret illuminati mutualist handshake*

I think our methods probably differ wildly though. What has "happened to me" is mostly a rush of pragmatism.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
GeoLaureate8
Posts: 12,252
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9/27/2012 6:12:29 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/14/2012 5:19:36 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I realized that the conception I had of government was really quite childish. It was all a romanticized demonization that turned the government, by theory, into an inherent evil. But that's absurd. You could make some case in theory how government is the nothing but the ultimate thug, but in practical application, it truly often is not.

The primary shift I've made in all of this is distancing myself from building my understand upon a foundation of theory as a starting point. That's not how theories are supposed to work. Theories are meant to only fill in the gaps between the pure facts that we have, which really are not as easily understood or expansive as any fundamentalist theory would suggest the world can be understood as.

Thinking stops where ideology begins.

So to be more clear in answering your question, I would say that I am pro government because the most practical solutions in day to day problems that we face can arise, in a variety of ways, out of government, as seems to follow from my current understanding of the facts.


Agreed.

"We must raise the standard of the Old, free, decentralized, and strictly limited Republic."
-- Murray Rothbard

"The worst thing that can happen to a good cause is, not to be skillfully attacked, but to be ineptly defended."
-- Frederic Bastiat
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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9/27/2012 6:17:52 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/27/2012 6:12:21 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 9/27/2012 6:04:41 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/27/2012 6:03:30 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 9/27/2012 6:02:53 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 9/27/2012 6:02:07 PM, FREEDO wrote:
My ideal economy is a neo-Capitalism where the primary means of income for the majority of citizens is in personal business-ownership run without human labor.

I'm pretty sure that's mutualism man. You know, Proudhon, Tucker, Carson and all those other motherfvckers?

Yes, it is.

*high five*

*secret illuminati mutualist handshake*

I think our methods probably differ wildly though. What has "happened to me" is mostly a rush of pragmatism.

*takes back high five*
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
Chicken
Posts: 1,296
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9/27/2012 7:52:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/27/2012 6:22:30 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 9/27/2012 6:17:52 PM, socialpinko wrote:
*takes back high five*

Nooooo

*jumps off bridge*

NOOO FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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One_Winged_Rook
Posts: 4
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9/27/2012 9:22:45 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 18, and you're already giving up on idealism?
It's never going to happen, but neither is anything else we gab about.
So why not be idealist?
Three Cheers for a Thousand Years!
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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9/29/2012 12:45:42 AM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/27/2012 9:22:45 PM, One_Winged_Rook wrote:
At 18, and you're already giving up on idealism?
It's never going to happen, but neither is anything else we gab about.
So why not be idealist?

My patterns between philosophy and politics are not as easily drawn as they are for most.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord