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IQ means nothing.

MouthWash
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9/18/2012 2:43:04 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Nothing, except how well you could do on a test. I don't understand how anyone could take this insanity seriously. When I was eleven or twelve I scored 126 on a test, and I guarantee you that if I took it today it would be lower, despite the fact that back then I was about as ignorant, biased, and irrational as any All-American idiot that the schools crank out.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
phantom
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9/18/2012 2:43:36 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/18/2012 2:43:19 PM, Koopin wrote:
kfc
"Music is a zen-like ecstatic state where you become the new man of the future, the Nietzschean merger of Apollo and Dionysus." Ray Manzarek (The Doors)
MouthWash
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9/18/2012 2:45:18 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
I'm sorry that you people evidently have a problem accepting things you don't like.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Frederick53
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9/18/2012 2:46:38 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
As far as I can tell, smart people DO tend to score higher on the test then stupid people. It might not be a very accurate way to gauge someone's intelligence, but it still means something.
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MouthWash
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9/18/2012 2:49:51 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/18/2012 2:46:38 PM, Frederick53 wrote:
As far as I can tell, smart people DO tend to score higher on the test then stupid people. It might not be a very accurate way to gauge someone's intelligence, but it still means something.

Selection bias. The ones who score lower are less "educated" in general. Isn't IQ supposed to measure real intelligence? It's name is "intelligence quotient."
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
imabench
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9/18/2012 2:58:25 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/18/2012 2:43:36 PM, phantom wrote:
At 9/18/2012 2:43:19 PM, Koopin wrote:
kfc
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Mirza
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9/18/2012 2:58:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
IQ attempts to measure certain known abilities of intelligence. For example, the ability to make use of logic for problem-solving. If you're able to pass well in an IQ test based purely on problem-solving and similar logical subjects, you'll be able to do well with math.

And just because you scored well on an IQ as a child and score less now doesn't undermine the value of IQ tests whatsoever. It's possible that your brain is less able to make use of its abilities now that you're 15, perhaps due to hormonal imbalances causing depression or anything of that sort.

IQ tests don't measure intelligence fully, and there is a lot to be discovered about intelligence and what it entails, but certainly it is a good indicator, and not at all useless as you want to make it appear like.
OberHerr
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9/18/2012 2:59:16 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/18/2012 2:58:25 PM, imabench wrote:
At 9/18/2012 2:43:36 PM, phantom wrote:
At 9/18/2012 2:43:19 PM, Koopin wrote:
kfc

I see why MW was mad about KFC now.
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MouthWash
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9/18/2012 3:21:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/18/2012 2:58:33 PM, Mirza wrote:
IQ attempts to measure certain known abilities of intelligence. For example, the ability to make use of logic for problem-solving. If you're able to pass well in an IQ test based purely on problem-solving and similar logical subjects, you'll be able to do well with math.

BS. The "logic-puzzles" I was presented were practically state-mandated official standardized schoolwork. I learned how to rationalize from reading debates on this site.

And just because you scored well on an IQ as a child and score less now doesn't undermine the value of IQ tests whatsoever. It's possible that your brain is less able to make use of its abilities now that you're 15, perhaps due to hormonal imbalances causing depression or anything of that sort.

I haven't scored lower, I've been boycotting them for the past few years. I don't want to become even the slightest bit biased towards them, and I never want to have any sort of urge to brag about it simply to gain credence.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Mirza
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9/18/2012 3:26:07 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/18/2012 3:21:55 PM, MouthWash wrote:
BS. The "logic-puzzles" I was presented were practically state-mandated official standardized schoolwork.
What's your point? Regardless of who made tests and applied them to standardized schoolwork, the point is that your brain uses the same intelligence to solve problems in an IQ test as it does to solve problems in math.

I learned how to rationalize from reading debates on this site.
It's possible to practice and make better use of one's intelligence. What you're point again?

I haven't scored lower, I've been boycotting them for the past few years. I don't want to become even the slightest bit biased towards them, and I never want to have any sort of urge to brag about it simply to gain credence.
You don't have to. It's stupid to brag about IQ, but don't say they are not credible.
MouthWash
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9/18/2012 3:32:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/18/2012 3:26:07 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 9/18/2012 3:21:55 PM, MouthWash wrote:
BS. The "logic-puzzles" I was presented were practically state-mandated official standardized schoolwork.
What's your point? Regardless of who made tests and applied them to standardized schoolwork, the point is that your brain uses the same intelligence to solve problems in an IQ test as it does to solve problems in math.

No, because there wasn't much logic involved, more methodology. The methods they teach at school help enormously with the problems specifically enough to make me suspicious. It certainly doesn't measure raw intelligence.

I learned how to rationalize from reading debates on this site.
It's possible to practice and make better use of one's intelligence. What you're point again?

Because the IQ test doesn't even take it into account. I consider it to be the most important aspect of intelligence.

It's really so much simpler to smash the concept of "intelligence" into one convenient, bite-sized number, but that's not how things work.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
MouthWash
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9/18/2012 4:37:21 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/18/2012 3:57:39 PM, yoda878 wrote:
why does this bother you so much?

I have a high IQ! Give me the status and respect I deserve!
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)
Lordknukle
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9/18/2012 5:21:56 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
IQ=/=Knowledge

Rookie mistake.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
MattDescopa
Posts: 356
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9/18/2012 5:26:49 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/18/2012 2:43:04 PM, MouthWash wrote:
Nothing, except how well you could do on a test. I don't understand how anyone could take this insanity seriously. When I was eleven or twelve I scored 126 on a test, and I guarantee you that if I took it today it would be lower, despite the fact that back then I was about as ignorant, biased, and irrational as any All-American idiot that the schools crank out.

Thank you its all about how hard you work.
Mirza
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9/18/2012 5:29:00 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/18/2012 3:32:43 PM, MouthWash wrote:
No, because there wasn't much logic involved, more methodology.
Uh, not true.

The methods they teach at school help enormously with the problems specifically enough to make me suspicious. It certainly doesn't measure raw intelligence.
Correct. You learn formulas. But *basic* logical patterns can be spotted without any specific knowledge. This is what's in the IQ tests.

Because the IQ test doesn't even take it into account. I consider it to be the most important aspect of intelligence.
No, they don't. Much like certain brain scan tests don't take into account whether or not you've taken drugs and whatnot. Doesn't make brain scan worthless.

It's really so much simpler to smash the concept of "intelligence" into one convenient, bite-sized number, but that's not how things work.
That's not what IQ attempts to do either.
MattDescopa
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9/18/2012 5:29:09 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/18/2012 2:58:33 PM, Mirza wrote:
IQ attempts to measure certain known abilities of intelligence. For example, the ability to make use of logic for problem-solving. If you're able to pass well in an IQ test based purely on problem-solving and similar logical subjects, you'll be able to do well with math.

Your full of sh*t. The only way you can do well in math is if you excercises and homework, if you don't you deteriorate thats a fact.


And just because you scored well on an IQ as a child and score less now doesn't undermine the value of IQ tests whatsoever. It's possible that your brain is less able to make use of its abilities now that you're 15, perhaps due to hormonal imbalances causing depression or anything of that sort.

Ockhams razor states the simple explanattionn is the better. Which one is simpler and thus better, all this hormonal stuff you just said or the fact that he has become lazier?


IQ tests don't measure intelligence fully, and there is a lot to be discovered about intelligence and what it entails, but certainly it is a good indicator, and not at all useless as you want to make it appear like.

IQ is a horrible indicator because it leaves out creativity which is a crucial factor or intelligence.
DetectableNinja
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9/18/2012 5:32:33 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
It DOES actually measure logical-mathematical intelligence, as well as, in part, linguistic intelligence.

As well, you conflate intelligence with knowledge/non-ignorance.
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Or any man that breathes on earth.

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DetectableNinja
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9/18/2012 5:33:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
Why are you so bitter?
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
DetectableNinja
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9/18/2012 5:37:22 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/18/2012 5:29:09 PM, MattDescopa wrote:
At 9/18/2012 2:58:33 PM, Mirza wrote:
IQ attempts to measure certain known abilities of intelligence. For example, the ability to make use of logic for problem-solving. If you're able to pass well in an IQ test based purely on problem-solving and similar logical subjects, you'll be able to do well with math.

Your full of sh*t. The only way you can do well in math is if you excercises and homework, if you don't you deteriorate thats a fact.

Again, a lot of IQ problems are simply spatial and CAN be solved via tabula rasa.

In any event, prove it.

And just because you scored well on an IQ as a child and score less now doesn't undermine the value of IQ tests whatsoever. It's possible that your brain is less able to make use of its abilities now that you're 15, perhaps due to hormonal imbalances causing depression or anything of that sort.

Ockhams razor states the simple explanattionn is the better. Which one is simpler and thus better, all this hormonal stuff you just said or the fact that he has become lazier?

Lol, Occam's Razor fail. The razor says that ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL. And I guarantee you laziness and that explanation are not overall equal.


IQ tests don't measure intelligence fully, and there is a lot to be discovered about intelligence and what it entails, but certainly it is a good indicator, and not at all useless as you want to make it appear like.

IQ is a horrible indicator because it leaves out creativity which is a crucial factor or intelligence.

I agree completely--however, IQ definitely CAN provide a GENERAL indicator of a person's intelligence. And actually, many IQ problems do require divergent thinking--which is part of creativity.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
Mirza
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9/18/2012 5:38:15 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/18/2012 5:29:09 PM, MattDescopa wrote:
Your full of sh*t. The only way you can do well in math is if you excercises and homework, if you don't you deteriorate thats a fact.
Why do some people learn maths much better than others at any given time? Why does it happen that one with an IQ of 140 is able to learn math much easier than one with an IQ of 100? Because there's a connection. Of course one with a low IQ can be better at maths than one with a very high IQ, but that doesn't mean his ability to learn new math skills or anything similar is better.

Ockhams razor states the simple explanattionn is the better. Which one is simpler and thus better, all this hormonal stuff you just said or the fact that he has become lazier?
You're babbling. Nothing you said here refutes my point. I didn't conclude what might have made his IQ score lower. I speculated. Read properly Ma'am.

IQ is a horrible indicator because it leaves out creativity which is a crucial factor or intelligence.
Have you heard of different categories of IQ tests? Logical, emotional, etc.? Perhaps not.

Your full of sh*t.
But since you're confident in these attacks, maybe we should debate this in the future? Sounds good.
MattDescopa
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9/18/2012 5:39:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/18/2012 5:21:56 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
IQ=/=Knowledge

Rookie mistake.

IQ claims your potential to obtain knowledge, even though its false. IQ is rooted in racism since it was developed in the early 1900s, a time when heavy bias against other ethnicities especially black people.

You cannot deny that there were common stereotypes that black people were an inferior race, incompetent etc etc. People always find evidence which supports their view, even if its flawed. Its called confirmation bias.

---------------------------------------------------

Lordknuckle before you argue against whatever I said I want to ask you some questions.

Since you claim black people on average are inherently less intelligent, what would you do in terms of applying this knowledge to society? Would you put black people in seperate schools, apply stricter measures for black people when they apply for high level (education wise) positions? How would you apply this?

Since you claim black people are less intelligent on average, what about other races, are they all equal in intelligence? If so, why have you only been claiming that blacks are less intelligent on average than X race, why haven't you been talking about others? If not why is it specific to blacks on average?

What is the most intelligent race on average? What would be the implications of this/

---------------------------------------------------

Please answer these questions, I'm trying to take you seriously.
Mirza
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9/18/2012 5:42:26 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/18/2012 5:39:55 PM, MattDescopa wrote:
IQ claims your potential to obtain knowledge,
Yes, among other things.

even though its false.
No it's not. Prove it.

IQ is rooted in racism since it was developed in the early 1900s, a time when heavy bias against other ethnicities especially black people.
If we agree on this theory for the sake of argument, why does it matter in relation to the science of intelligence tests in modern times? Just because the test might have emerged due to racism doesn't make it useless. That's a genetic fallacy.
MattDescopa
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9/18/2012 5:43:11 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/18/2012 5:38:15 PM, Mirza wrote:

Do you agree with Lordknuckles claims? Namely that blacks on average are less intellligent than whites?
MattDescopa
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9/18/2012 5:44:30 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/18/2012 5:37:22 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/18/2012 5:29:09 PM, MattDescopa wrote:
At 9/18/2012 2:58:33 PM, Mirza wrote:
IQ attempts to measure certain known abilities of intelligence. For example, the ability to make use of logic for problem-solving. If you're able to pass well in an IQ test based purely on problem-solving and similar logical subjects, you'll be able to do well with math.

Your full of sh*t. The only way you can do well in math is if you excercises and homework, if you don't you deteriorate thats a fact.

Again, a lot of IQ problems are simply spatial and CAN be solved via tabula rasa.

In any event, prove it.

And just because you scored well on an IQ as a child and score less now doesn't undermine the value of IQ tests whatsoever. It's possible that your brain is less able to make use of its abilities now that you're 15, perhaps due to hormonal imbalances causing depression or anything of that sort.

Ockhams razor states the simple explanattionn is the better. Which one is simpler and thus better, all this hormonal stuff you just said or the fact that he has become lazier?

Lol, Occam's Razor fail. The razor says that ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL. And I guarantee you laziness and that explanation are not overall equal.


IQ tests don't measure intelligence fully, and there is a lot to be discovered about intelligence and what it entails, but certainly it is a good indicator, and not at all useless as you want to make it appear like.

IQ is a horrible indicator because it leaves out creativity which is a crucial factor or intelligence.

I agree completely--however, IQ definitely CAN provide a GENERAL indicator of a person's intelligence. And actually, many IQ problems do require divergent thinking--which is part of creativity.

Do you believe that blacks on average are less intelligent than whites because of their inherent lower IQ?
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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9/18/2012 5:47:55 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/18/2012 5:44:30 PM, MattDescopa wrote:
At 9/18/2012 5:37:22 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/18/2012 5:29:09 PM, MattDescopa wrote:
At 9/18/2012 2:58:33 PM, Mirza wrote:
IQ attempts to measure certain known abilities of intelligence. For example, the ability to make use of logic for problem-solving. If you're able to pass well in an IQ test based purely on problem-solving and similar logical subjects, you'll be able to do well with math.

Your full of sh*t. The only way you can do well in math is if you excercises and homework, if you don't you deteriorate thats a fact.

Again, a lot of IQ problems are simply spatial and CAN be solved via tabula rasa.

In any event, prove it.

And just because you scored well on an IQ as a child and score less now doesn't undermine the value of IQ tests whatsoever. It's possible that your brain is less able to make use of its abilities now that you're 15, perhaps due to hormonal imbalances causing depression or anything of that sort.

Ockhams razor states the simple explanattionn is the better. Which one is simpler and thus better, all this hormonal stuff you just said or the fact that he has become lazier?

Lol, Occam's Razor fail. The razor says that ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL. And I guarantee you laziness and that explanation are not overall equal.


IQ tests don't measure intelligence fully, and there is a lot to be discovered about intelligence and what it entails, but certainly it is a good indicator, and not at all useless as you want to make it appear like.

IQ is a horrible indicator because it leaves out creativity which is a crucial factor or intelligence.

I agree completely--however, IQ definitely CAN provide a GENERAL indicator of a person's intelligence. And actually, many IQ problems do require divergent thinking--which is part of creativity.

Do you believe that blacks on average are less intelligent than whites because of their inherent lower IQ?

I subscribe to the theory of multiple intelligences.

And I will not answer the question, as it's obviously an attempt to entrap me in some situation.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
MattDescopa
Posts: 356
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9/18/2012 5:48:35 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/18/2012 5:42:26 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 9/18/2012 5:39:55 PM, MattDescopa wrote:
IQ claims your potential to obtain knowledge,
Yes, among other things.

even though its false.
No it's not. Prove it.

IQ is rooted in racism since it was developed in the early 1900s, a time when heavy bias against other ethnicities especially black people.
If we agree on this theory for the sake of argument, why does it matter in relation to the science of intelligence tests in modern times? Just because the test might have emerged due to racism doesn't make it useless. That's a genetic fallacy.

Actually while my statement has the potential to be a genetic fallacy you must prove that it is. You have to prove that the methodology of IQ testing changed alot so that it is different from its beginnings which were rooted in racism, then you could claim I'm commiting a genetic fallacy.

The fact is that the methodology of IQ testing has changed very little from its racist origins. "A 2006 article stated that contemporary psychologic research often did not reflect substantial recent developments in psychometrics and "bears an uncanny resemblance to the psychometric state of the art as it existed in the 1950s.""
http://en.wikipedia.org...
MattDescopa
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9/18/2012 5:50:43 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
At 9/18/2012 5:47:55 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/18/2012 5:44:30 PM, MattDescopa wrote:
At 9/18/2012 5:37:22 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 9/18/2012 5:29:09 PM, MattDescopa wrote:
At 9/18/2012 2:58:33 PM, Mirza wrote:
IQ attempts to measure certain known abilities of intelligence. For example, the ability to make use of logic for problem-solving. If you're able to pass well in an IQ test based purely on problem-solving and similar logical subjects, you'll be able to do well with math.

Your full of sh*t. The only way you can do well in math is if you excercises and homework, if you don't you deteriorate thats a fact.

Again, a lot of IQ problems are simply spatial and CAN be solved via tabula rasa.

In any event, prove it.

And just because you scored well on an IQ as a child and score less now doesn't undermine the value of IQ tests whatsoever. It's possible that your brain is less able to make use of its abilities now that you're 15, perhaps due to hormonal imbalances causing depression or anything of that sort.

Ockhams razor states the simple explanattionn is the better. Which one is simpler and thus better, all this hormonal stuff you just said or the fact that he has become lazier?

Lol, Occam's Razor fail. The razor says that ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL. And I guarantee you laziness and that explanation are not overall equal.


IQ tests don't measure intelligence fully, and there is a lot to be discovered about intelligence and what it entails, but certainly it is a good indicator, and not at all useless as you want to make it appear like.

IQ is a horrible indicator because it leaves out creativity which is a crucial factor or intelligence.

I agree completely--however, IQ definitely CAN provide a GENERAL indicator of a person's intelligence. And actually, many IQ problems do require divergent thinking--which is part of creativity.

Do you believe that blacks on average are less intelligent than whites because of their inherent lower IQ?

I subscribe to the theory of multiple intelligences.

And I will not answer the question, as it's obviously an attempt to entrap me in some situation.

WOW, its a straightforward question. Its not a paradox. If you plead the fifth, then it implies you answer "yes" to the question.

Nice.
MouthWash
Posts: 2,607
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9/18/2012 5:50:46 PM
Posted: 4 years ago
IQ literally MEANS intelligence quotient, Mirza.
"Well, that gives whole new meaning to my assassination. If I was going to die anyway, perhaps I should leave the Bolsheviks' descendants some Christmas cookies instead of breaking their dishes and vodka bottles in their sleep." -Tsar Nicholas II (YYW)