Total Posts:24|Showing Posts:1-24
Jump to topic:

How to deal with a Facebook Troll/Idiot

Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/18/2013 3:01:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Thanks to anyone who offers advice...

I am looking for advice on how to deal with either a troll or an idiot on Facebook.
I have a friend who posts political things, and this other guy is a friend of his.

This is the third conversation with him about various things, and he has never once cited a source, nor told me where I could find my error; he simply tells me I didn't read it. However, the terms he uses (which he says are in my source, both in this and other threads) do not appear when I use a find function, which leads me to believe he is making it up.

Either he is an idiot, I am, or he is simply trying to get under my skin, and it's working. I want to defend myself, because if what he says is true, it discredits me; however, I am never able to defend myself because I don't know what he is talking about. What do I do?

The following is the last thread of ours (we are the only comments on this one)...
---
The OP is a comic that showed a desolate area with a tour guide remarking how the rich recovered and recovered in the aftermath of the recession until there was nothing left. Above this, the caption reads:
The bottom 99% of wage earners lost 0.4% of income from 2009 to 2011. The top 1% gained 11.2%. So the 1%ers grabbed 121% of the income gains from the "recovery"

The comments are as follows (they are copied and pasted):
Me: I don't understand this at all. Can anyone explain it?

Judging by the way this is written, I am assuming what they are saying is "wages were cut, while total income for the rich increased", which is comparing apples and oranges.

By my calculation, the priliminary data from 2010-2011 shows the average wage/tax return went up for all groups, except those making less and $15K and those making more than $250K. So, it appears that wages went up in 2011 for most people, which it is important to note that the top 1% appeared to overall have their wages cut.

Furthermore, looking at Table 3 from the tax foundation for 2009-2010, total income for all groups is up.

I know these aren't the same, nor do either cover the 09-11 that the comic refers to. But, this is all the research I care to do for now, and what I have provided doesn't seem to jive with the comic's point.

http://www.irs.gov...
http://www.irs.gov...
http://taxfoundation.org...

If anyone knows a better source (especially for 2011 data), let me know please.

Troll: Facter inflation, most make less then 32k, and cuts to all pay and bennies. That was from your links, and by their numbers with the math across the board all the way to the top 11.28% wages went down, when you avg. the 99% you'll get something close to .4 (.38)

Me: The comic does not mention inflation, it simply says "lost .4% of income". Inflation should not be inferred, as it is not a loss of income per se, but a loss of buying power. The income still went up.

As far as my links showing a loss of pay and benefits (even though I don't consider benefits income, and the IRS only considers certain ones as income), which link and where? I know I used averages, but specifics aren't shown. Furthermore, I have a suspicion that you are using AGI, not salary and wages (the <$15K bracket showed an average loss of about 27%). But, this includes ALL sources of income, not wages.

Furthermore, my sources do not suggest that most make less than $32. Table 7 from the tax foundation says that half of Americans make more than $34K in the last two years. I suppose if you prorated the IRS numbers, you would get about $32,537, but this assumes a linear progression of income, which should not be assumed.

I specifically used wages for two reasons. 1) the comic refers to "wage-earners", which I found to be oddly specific and added to my confusion; 2) in both 2010 and 2011, in those with incomes of <$30K, non-wage income source items were not used by over 75% of these returns. This means that for the majority of these returns, the only source of income was from employment.

Troll: Right off the bat I can tell you didn't read all of your source nor did you read the appendexs and tables that were on the same page as those links. GO BACK AND READ IT ALL, or be embarassed like you were with your voter fraud gaffe. I know you didn't read it all, don't say otherwise, there was more there then you choose to read.

Me: Right off the bat, I can tell you didn"t realize I was unconfident in my sources/data. If the comic is referring to the effect of inflation, I would be more inclined to believe the stats offered; however, I take issue with the terms "income" and "wage-earner".

I will be embarrassed when you actually tell me what, where, and how I am wrong. I am not embarrassed by vague accusations from someone who redefines terms (i.e. illegal voting =/= voter fraud) and refuses to cite their claims (notice how I state my calculation and tell you the table I reference).

Notice how you did not respond to my inflation comment, my claim you are using AGI, my assumption as to how you achieved your math. Your response is merely asserting I did not read my sources completely, attempting to tell me how I felt from a previous discussion, and refusing to tell me (or anyone else who is reading this) what information I missed.

How easy it would be to simply say I didn't read the source while making things up, because I can't prove the source doesn't say that because you would simply say to "read it again"... a childish game you play here. There is no reason to withhold the location of this information if we are having an honest discussion, which leads me to believe you are nothing more than an inebriated troll who delights in condescension by belittling others.

Tell me where I can find my oversight and how you figured your math, or I will not reply to you again. (Something that I thought we had previously agreed upon, but this is your second violation)

Troll: Thanks for proving my point, keep avoiding doing any real research.

Troll: Just to remind you of your voter fruad gaffe, how many cases of voter fraud were there? I know you'll make the same mistake twice.

----
How should I respond, if at all? I mean, if I am wrong and am missing something, why not tell me instead of calling me an idiot or accusing me of "playing games"? (He did this in the last thread we had, hence the agreement to not respond to each other)
My work here is, finally, done.
Cermank
Posts: 3,773
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/18/2013 9:26:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
As a general rule, arguments on Facebook are not worth the social/ private cost. Half of the people over there cant back up their claims.

He had a good point about inflation, but after that it was more of a cock fight than anything else. He didn't even listen to your arguments.
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/18/2013 12:57:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Ignored him or simply smile and said "yeah you may be right", if you think he is a troll.

If you seriously want to engage him, then honored him as your opposition. Don't engage troll, because only troll fight with a troll.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/18/2013 1:30:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 9:13:19 AM, Cermank wrote:
Unfriend him.

Problem is, he is not my friend. He is a friend of a friend, so he sees my comments, and is compelled to respond.
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/18/2013 1:48:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 9:26:31 AM, Cermank wrote:
As a general rule, arguments on Facebook are not worth the social/ private cost.
True, but this friend (the one with the OP) does engage every so often, and it is more mature. Plus, his other friends will argue well, generally.

Half of the people over there cant back up their claims.
I'm pretty sure most of the people over there don't think at all.


He had a good point about inflation, but after that it was more of a cock fight than anything else.

Inflation was a good point, if it was true. Had he convinced me the comic was confusing income and effect of inflation, I would have agreed with him. After all, I did start by saying I was confused.

On a side note, this did escalate quickly, but that is due to our history.

He didn't even listen to your arguments.
He didn't need to, because I didn't read my sources. Whatever I say is automatically discredited because there is some mysterious fact I overlooked somewhere, especially when he supplies a fact that I can't locate in my source or his non-existent (other threads) ones... Didn't you know you should be omniscient before you comment on anything?

This is his MO, which is why he is either a troll or an idiot. Or a jerk, assuming I am wrong about what I say (I generally don't read sources when I use figures, as I want to find specific information which may or may not be presented in the analysis). I would like to know if I am wrong, so I can learn. After all, that is the point of discussions. And if I am not wrong, I don't want to leave it unchallenged.

Should I respond? If so, how?
My work here is, finally, done.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/18/2013 1:50:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 12:57:56 PM, suttichart.denpruektham wrote:
Ignored him or simply smile and said "yeah you may be right", if you think he is a troll.

If you seriously want to engage him, then honored him as your opposition. Don't engage troll, because only troll fight with a troll.

Ignore him even when he is lying/misinformed, especially when he implies I am an idiot?
My work here is, finally, done.
YYW
Posts: 36,336
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/18/2013 4:03:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 3:01:43 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Thanks to anyone who offers advice...

I am looking for advice on how to deal with either a troll or an idiot on Facebook.
I have a friend who posts political things, and this other guy is a friend of his.

This is the third conversation with him about various things, and he has never once cited a source, nor told me where I could find my error; he simply tells me I didn't read it. However, the terms he uses (which he says are in my source, both in this and other threads) do not appear when I use a find function, which leads me to believe he is making it up.

Either he is an idiot, I am, or he is simply trying to get under my skin, and it's working. I want to defend myself, because if what he says is true, it discredits me; however, I am never able to defend myself because I don't know what he is talking about. What do I do?

A general rule for political conversations on Facebook:

They are meaningless. Worry not about them, but about the people who partake in them.
Tsar of DDO
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/18/2013 4:14:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
General rule of thumb: People will lie and bullsh1t just just to make themselves seem right and the other person wrong. It's a pissing contest, not a contest of ideas. Argumentation is all about domination, not exchanging ideas especially when it comes to men.
Open borders debate:
http://www.debate.org...
YYW
Posts: 36,336
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/18/2013 4:29:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 4:14:51 PM, darkkermit wrote:
General rule of thumb: People will lie and bullsh1t just just to make themselves seem right and the other person wrong. It's a pissing contest, not a contest of ideas. Argumentation is all about domination, not exchanging ideas especially when it comes to men.

Indeed.
Tsar of DDO
imabench
Posts: 21,220
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/18/2013 4:35:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
A great thing to do is post a link to the troll's facebook profile right here in the forums and let everyone in here have a go at him.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
YYW
Posts: 36,336
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/18/2013 4:39:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 4:35:45 PM, imabench wrote:
A great thing to do is post a link to the troll's facebook profile right here in the forums and let everyone in here have a go at him.

Indeed.
Tsar of DDO
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/18/2013 5:27:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/18/2013 4:39:43 PM, YYW wrote:
At 3/18/2013 4:35:45 PM, imabench wrote:
A great thing to do is post a link to the troll's facebook profile right here in the forums and let everyone in here have a go at him.

Indeed.

^do this, even if you just give it to bench. Bench could out troll any troll any day.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/20/2013 1:23:14 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Thanks to all.
Here is the lastest thread, this being our fourth encounter.
http://www.facebook.com...

Happy trolling.

I am still not sure if he is trolling, or if he is like a Geo-lite... Either way, f#ck him.
My work here is, finally, done.
OberHerr
Posts: 13,062
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/20/2013 1:27:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/20/2013 1:23:14 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Thanks to all.
Here is the lastest thread, this being our fourth encounter.
http://www.facebook.com...

Happy trolling.

I am still not sure if he is trolling, or if he is like a Geo-lite... Either way, f#ck him.

Wait, you gave us his Facebook?

OMFG.....I hope he has a lot of restrictions set.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-OBERHERR'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

Official Enforcer for the DDO Elite(if they existed).

"Cases are anti-town." - FourTrouble

-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/20/2013 2:06:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/20/2013 1:27:43 AM, OberHerr wrote:
At 3/20/2013 1:23:14 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Thanks to all.
Here is the lastest thread, this being our fourth encounter.
http://www.facebook.com...

Happy trolling.

I am still not sure if he is trolling, or if he is like a Geo-lite... Either way, f#ck him.

Wait, you gave us his Facebook?

OMFG.....I hope he has a lot of restrictions set.

Just make sure you target Matt. I have no beef with Kevin or Zach.
Have fun.
My work here is, finally, done.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/22/2013 2:38:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
This is like....beginner internet stuff.

You don't feed the troll. That's like the most basic thing there is.

Either ignore him and stop caring like a reasonable and emotional secure person does or block him.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
johnnyboy54
Posts: 6,362
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/22/2013 3:03:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Well you're one Facebook, so I assume you can find where he lives.

Go there and burn his house down.
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/22/2013 3:04:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/22/2013 2:38:10 AM, FREEDO wrote:
This is like....beginner internet stuff.
Believe it or not, I am a beginner. I didn't even know what a troll was until about a year ago, when I was called one.:
You don't feed the troll. That's like the most basic thing there is.

Either ignore him and stop caring like a reasonable and emotional secure person does or block him.

Part of this thread was trying to figure out if he is a troll, or just an idiot, or right about me (though I doubt that is the case). I can't block him, as these are not my posts to censor, nor do I want his lies to go unanswered.

Largely, I have decided to engage him with beligerence.
If he is an idiot, he isn't worth my time, as he clearly doesn't want a discussion. He just wants to be right at any cost.
If he is a troll, then my beligerence isn't really feeding him. And if it is, at least I get something out of it.

Any advice on how to tell the difference between a troll and an idiot/zealot?
My work here is, finally, done.
muzebreak
Posts: 2,781
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/22/2013 4:58:48 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/22/2013 3:04:16 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 3/22/2013 2:38:10 AM, FREEDO wrote:
This is like....beginner internet stuff.
Believe it or not, I am a beginner. I didn't even know what a troll was until about a year ago, when I was called one.:
You don't feed the troll. That's like the most basic thing there is.

Either ignore him and stop caring like a reasonable and emotional secure person does or block him.

Part of this thread was trying to figure out if he is a troll, or just an idiot, or right about me (though I doubt that is the case). I can't block him, as these are not my posts to censor, nor do I want his lies to go unanswered.

Largely, I have decided to engage him with beligerence.
If he is an idiot, he isn't worth my time, as he clearly doesn't want a discussion. He just wants to be right at any cost.
If he is a troll, then my beligerence isn't really feeding him. And if it is, at least I get something out of it.

Any advice on how to tell the difference between a troll and an idiot/zealot?

Iv been trying for a long time to figure that out. Have you ever heard of Poe's law? Poe's law is an observation that it is impossible to tell the difference between religious fundamentalists, and trolls who pretend to be them. Because they are equally insane.
"Every kid starts out as a natural-born scientist, and then we beat it out of them. A few trickle through the system with their wonder and enthusiasm for science intact." - Carl Sagan

This is the response of the defenders of Sparta to the Commander of the Roman Army: "If you are a god, you will not hurt those who have never injured you. If you are a man, advance - you will find men equal to yourself. And women.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/22/2013 2:38:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Whenever this happens, I post a link to the wikipedia list of fallacies and say, "my gift to you. We'll talk again after you've become familiar with it."
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.
Oryus
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
3/22/2013 2:41:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 3/22/2013 3:04:16 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 3/22/2013 2:38:10 AM, FREEDO wrote:
This is like....beginner internet stuff.
Believe it or not, I am a beginner. I didn't even know what a troll was until about a year ago, when I was called one.:
You don't feed the troll. That's like the most basic thing there is.

Either ignore him and stop caring like a reasonable and emotional secure person does or block him.

Part of this thread was trying to figure out if he is a troll, or just an idiot, or right about me (though I doubt that is the case). I can't block him, as these are not my posts to censor, nor do I want his lies to go unanswered.

Largely, I have decided to engage him with beligerence.
If he is an idiot, he isn't worth my time, as he clearly doesn't want a discussion. He just wants to be right at any cost.
If he is a troll, then my beligerence isn't really feeding him. And if it is, at least I get something out of it.

Any advice on how to tell the difference between a troll and an idiot/zealot?

Poe's Law: "Poe's Law is an observation that it's difficult, if not impossible, to distinguish between parodies of religious or other fundamentalism and its genuine proponents, since they both seem equally insane."
(from rational wiki)

It's difficult to tell the difference but dealing with either is equally fruitless so there's not really a need for proper categorization anyway.
: : :Tulle: The fool, I purposely don't engage with you because you don't have proper command of the English language.
: :
: : The Fool: It's my English writing. Either way It's okay have a larger vocabulary then you, and a better grasp of language, and you're a woman.
:
: I'm just going to leave this precious struggle nugget right here.