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Fraternity

Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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4/8/2013 3:05:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
What are some of the Pros and Cons of joining a fraternity? For a more specific response, I am thinking of joining one of these three: a business fraternity, a fraternity with the highest GPA on campus, and a social fraternity with some smart dudes in it.
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cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
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4/8/2013 8:29:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I guess it can be somewhat of an insensitive separation
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
THEVIRUS
Posts: 1,321
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4/8/2013 8:34:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/8/2013 3:05:54 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
What are some of the Pros and Cons of joining a fraternity? For a more specific response, I am thinking of joining one of these three: a business fraternity, a fraternity with the highest GPA on campus, and a social fraternity with some smart dudes in it.

Yes.
"So you want me to go to the judge with 'unit, corps, God, country'?" - A Few Good Men

"And the hits just keep on comin'." -A Few Good Men
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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4/8/2013 8:36:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/8/2013 3:05:54 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
What are some of the Pros and Cons of joining a fraternity? For a more specific response, I am thinking of joining one of these three: a business fraternity, a fraternity with the highest GPA on campus, and a social fraternity with some smart dudes in it.:

Pro: Fraternities are good in the sense of networking. You meet a lot of connected people, and on the basis of your affiliation can "get ahead" more easily.

Stupid, easy girls go to frat parties.

Con: They're super fuggin douchey, the chance you go to jail while in a fraternity exponentially increases. You'll either become a rapist or will know a rapist well. Guaranteed.

I bounced a frat house for ONE night, and broke up 3 fights and was involved in 2 of them. Drunken idiots everywhere who have NO perspective on what's really important. Pure drama.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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4/8/2013 11:35:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'll volunteer for cons: social fraternities are largely manufacturing plants for affluent dicks--partly, this is because of the self-selection of legacies and affluent families (networking); partly, the openness of fraternity life offers an opportunity to behave like an adolescent, something not afforded to a lot of kids who come from affluent-but-strict families; partly, a feedback loop endogenous to "bro" culture induces the cyclical production of hypermasculine douches; partly, people are stupid, and just want to go to university for the parties; partly, the pressure to conform (also endogenous to "bro" culture and enforced through ritual, hazing, attire, cohabitation, inter-fraternity competition, etc.) influences people not only to behave like asses around their other fraternity/sorority acquaintances, but also to begin internalizing those cultural norms just through repetition and/or fear of social reprisal (assuming they aren't just dicks regardless); partly, some people are incredibly elitist, and think that joining and hanging out around Greeks makes them better than the rest (GDIs, or "goddamn independents", we're often called). This isn't exhaustive or quantifiable, and I speak only on the basis of my experiences at OU (where "Greek Life" is a huge deal), but I wouldn't recommend joining those organizations. Though it's anecdotal, I've had good friends who've joined--it's definitely changed them, and in a lot of ways that make me uncomfortable to be around them, particularly around their "brothers" or "sisters".
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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4/9/2013 2:59:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Business fraternities aren't really "fraternities." They don't throw parties. They are more like clubs.

I was in a social fraternity. Each one is different. Make sure they aren't douches before you join, or if they are then de-pledge. You should ask them about their hazing policies before joining. It's a lot of fun and you make great friends, if you choose wisely.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
YYW
Posts: 36,357
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4/9/2013 6:46:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I was never in a fraternity, but most of my male high school friends did join. As best I can tell, joining a fraternity is a brilliant way to find an instant circle of friends who are going to stick by you whether they like you or not. Unfortunately, that does mean that they are going to (as Cody and Paradigm said) hate on everyone else, while generally appearing to be giant d!cks. I'd actually be curious to know which fraternity you're interested in joining, sort of. I have a few friends who just graduated from Dartmouth, but I digress.

Greek Life is pretty much the same at state schools where it's essentially a continuation of the "in" crowd from high school. That said, there is a big difference in being in a fraternity at a state school than being in a fraternity at an Ivy League school. I'm not privy to all the details, though. Most of the guys who I know in fraternities generally think it was a worthwhile thing to do, and the connections -for jobs and internships- that social fraternities (important ones, not worthless ones) offer in the business world can be invaluable. But there is a price.

I think talk of hazing is overrated. It can be rough, so I hear, but it's bearable unless you're stupid or inexcusably irresponsible. Rushing is expensive though, which is something to consider. As I understand things (though I could be mistaken) Dartmouth doesn't allow freshman to rush, so you have to be at least a sophomore to to it (which I think is probably a good thing, but an irritating thing nevertheless). Also as I understand things, there is nothing to do in New Hampshire unless you have a summer home in Rye or a skiing timeshare in the mountains. So if you want a social life (and by social life I mean the opportunity to drink at house parties and hook up with sorority girls), a fraternity membership might be worth considering.
Tsar of DDO
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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4/9/2013 10:13:33 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
^ YYW is right about the perks--there are plenty of parties and easy women, and you'll get to skip over the meritocracy because you'll know people. My complaints are more about the structure and social ramifications of fraternity culture--from the view of an outsider--so take it with a grain of salt. There are a lot of ways in which it's a gate to privilege and fun, so, if you're into gaming the system, it's good strategy.

Just remember Nietzsche's warning, and don't stare too hard or too long into the abyss.
lewis20
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4/9/2013 11:50:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dunno if anyone mentioned it but a con is that pledging is horrific, depending which you join.
The biggest practical pro, as mentioned, has to be the networking because everyone knows in the real world getting a good job isn't about what you know near as much as it's about who you know.
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Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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4/9/2013 3:20:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Pros: 1. Networking, 2. Connections, 3. Fvcking the Hottest Girls on Campus, 4. Circle of Friends, 5. Fun, 6. Best Parties, 7. Becoming a Man

Cons: 1. Douches and Morons Galore, 2. Jail may be an Outcome, 3. Witnessing Unethical Treatment of Women (and possibly covering it up :O ), 4. Fights, 5. Hazing, 6. Dues, 7. Drama, 8. Group-Think and Lack of Individuality

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How I plan on remedying the Cons while still enjoying the benefits:
1. Join a fraternity with the highest percentage of ambitious, intelligent people (without compromising on social sway with sororities)
2. Knowing my limit: taking a few shots, then chilling on beer for the rest of the night
3. If I see forcible rape, I will report it. No question about it. I can't advocate for a Voluntary society if I do nothing to stop the act or report the offender.
4. Fights are such puerile bullsh!t. I avoid conflict usually, but I will probably be involved in an altercation if I'm drunk enough not to be thinking straight. I want to avoid the fraternities that have a lot of douchebag-beefcake types in the first place.
5. I'm not a little b!tch, I can handle hazing.
6. I'll be making $15k to $20k this summer.
7. Unavoidable being exposed to it. Deal with conflicts like a man.
8. Not living in the frat house. Having my own apartment where I can have alone time.

I met this frat yesterday who I met on facebook. We have similar political views, both run businesses, and are very ambitious. He took me to the shooting range (first time I've shot a gun), and gave me awesome advice on the way about being successful with girls, business, school, life, and cultivating lasting relationships. He provided practical advice on what I can work on in the short-term and long-term to achieve my goals, by far the most interesting and perspicacious person I've met so far at WVU. He advised me to join a frat, but definitely not his which is notorious for its hazing nation-wide.

I posted this query here to get some more opinions on my soft-decision to pledge next semester.
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Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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4/9/2013 6:03:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/9/2013 3:27:55 PM, Mirza wrote:
What do you score on the MBTI-test? I do question its accuracy, but the introvert/extrovert part seem to be decently accurate.

INTP and ENTP depending on the day. The best way I can describe in that respect is by saying I'm an outgoing, socially-adept introvert. By having my own apartment, I can have alone time and also enjoy the brotherhood a fraternity offers.
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Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
YYW
Posts: 36,357
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4/11/2013 10:27:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/9/2013 6:03:55 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 4/9/2013 3:27:55 PM, Mirza wrote:
What do you score on the MBTI-test? I do question its accuracy, but the introvert/extrovert part seem to be decently accurate.

INTP and ENTP depending on the day. The best way I can describe in that respect is by saying I'm an outgoing, socially-adept introvert. By having my own apartment, I can have alone time and also enjoy the brotherhood a fraternity offers.

You'll be fine, and you'll probably make friends pretty quickly/easily. In all honesty, you're the closest thing to a "frat boy" that DDO has. I'd say go for it.
Tsar of DDO