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Voyeurism

R0b1Billion
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4/19/2013 9:03:51 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I would like to talk to ya'll about voyeurism, and at the same time get off my chest probably my darkest secret about my life (although it can't be a secret if told). Since voyeurism is remarkably prevalent related to its actual officially-reported statistics, it is very dangerous because there's no way to prepare yourself for it. Everyone learns about drugs at a young age and has "the talk" about sex; nobody has "the talk" about voyeurism and perhaps if I share my experiences then someone else out there will be more prepared if and when it starts to appear in his or her (probably his :P) life.

Four to Five years ago, I hit the bottom of the barrel. I was having lots of problems in my relationship and turning to pornography for answers. I had always used pornography here and there throughout my life (why not?) when I was single, and I started using it again when my relationship started turning sour. However, pornography is especially unsatisfying; it just makes you want to increase your stimulation.

I didn't want to end my relationship despite our troubles in bed, so I started to degrade from pornography into voyeurism. I started driving around town to where I knew there would be lots of women. The university between classes, supermarkets, etc. and I would masturbate in my car. I would use my camera-phone to snap shots of girls that wear those incredibly tight, thin pants when I was close-enough to them in the halls at the university. But an opportunity arouse for me one day that brought me to my ultimate low.

My girlfriend's sister was living with us, and she would like to take a shower every morning before we woke up. I realized that there was an old-style keyhole in the door, only a millimeter or two wide but enough to get a glimpse of her after she exited the shower and was drying off. I started getting out of bed early in the morning when I heard the shower go off, and then frantically try to peep her while she was toweling herself. I would say that this happened a dozen or so times over the course of several weeks.

Voyeurism isn't anymore satisfying than pornography however, so I still pushed for more. Her sister was the only viable subject for me to observe, so I started trying to look in the window (again, while she was toweling off) and even tried using a small mirror shoved under the door to look up at her. The mirror was a bad mistake though, because she noticed it right away. I was sitting by the door pretending to play with my dog and putting the mirror under the door, when she noticed it, said "what?!" and opened the door and looked down at me. My gf was at the computer ten feet away, oblivious, and her sister looked at me, looked at her, and closed the door. It was one of the absolute lowest points of my entire life. Later on when I admitted to everyone what happened (it took me about a year to let it all out) she said she didn't really know what was going on, but I suspect she might have been just trying to protect my feelings and perhaps felt guilty that maybe she would be the cause of trouble in our relationship.

If you have had ideas about trying to be a "peeping tom" or increasing your stimulation in the pornographic sense, realize it is a dead-end street. You can't get satisfaction that way and it only becomes an incredible weight on your chest. It turns you into a social outcast internally; even though nobody knows what you're doing (usually), you are in a perpetual state of hiding and lying, and the act itself is EXTREMELY stressful because of the inherent covertness. Self-esteem is all but drained from you completely, and getting caught can have ramifications that are practically unlimited in how much they can destroy your life. I chose to tell my story to those who know me because the secret was eating me inside and I needed to get it out.

I've caused a considerable amount of damage to my reputation by releasing my secret. I am not allowed at certain family-members' houses, for example, and when I meet new people I have to deal with the issue of letting them in on what I've done. I bear the mark of Kane now, and I have faith that that particular biblical parable has great (and true) meaning. Those who judge me will be judged seven-times as harshly, and it hurts less for it to be out in the open than it does for me to hide it and let it eat me from the inside. But the biggest reason I tell the story is so that it becomes impossible for me to do it again. For if I keep the secret successfully, then there's nothing stopping me from slipping back into that hole if the opportunity perhaps is suddenly presented. Thanks for listening, and I hope I have made a small change in the way you think with my story :)
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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4/19/2013 10:08:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Wow that's quite an interesting story.

And it's hard to judge someone who has admitted they're wrong. Once someone admits what they did was foolish and wrong it's easy for people forgive and let go. But I agree, this was quite brave of you. I'm glad you decided to share this secret of yours.
suttichart.denpruektham
Posts: 1,115
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4/19/2013 10:21:29 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
That's a kind of story that render me speechless.

You are such a brave man to admit this kind of thing in the open. For that I saluted you. Don't really know why you have a problem with pornography though. I have heard of a couple where a guy admitted his use of porn to her (well who doesn't anyway) and she end up watch it with him and generally have a good sexual life.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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4/19/2013 12:35:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Great story. Why don't you just improve your pick-up game so that you can see women naked in a way in which they approve?

Also, I guess I have the opposite side of the same problem: I like when people watch me.
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
R0b1Billion
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4/19/2013 4:23:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It required some willpower to post this, but the nature of the audience makes it easier. It also gives me a somewhat easier medium to refer people IRL who I may wish to tell, simply by referring them to this instead of trying to awkwardly talk my way through it. I appreciate your sentiments of bravery, though, especially since none of the "great story" comments ended in "bro."

Conservative: "And it's hard to judge someone who has admitted they're wrong."

We all must bear the mark of Kane for our mistakes, or we risk repeating them when our will-power weakens. If you try to bear the burden yourself, it will eat you inside and cause much more damage than what society will do to you when they find out. I kept that secret for a year or two, and it was not fun. Now that it's out, it bothers me far less.

suttichart: "Don't really know why you have a problem with pornography though."

Well that's a thread in and of itself. I am a minimalist economically, so I believe that any product you use ought to be discriminated based on the labor it took to create it. So, if I hit a porn site, who is getting money by advertisers (or more direct means) through my watching of porn, then that means some woman is (likely) being paid to have sex in front of a camera. Now, I'm willing to bet that she would probably not be having sex on film if she didn't need the money, so what is essentially happening is that I'm creating the demand for her to exploit herself. That's the economic half of it...

"I have heard of a couple where a guy admitted his use of porn to her (well who doesn't anyway) and she end up watch it with him and generally have a good sexual life."

It can be done but there are pitfalls... let's talk about psychology now. The problem I ran into was that I got so accustomed to the stimulation of other women, that it became less pleasurable in bed with my own - and my gf was extremely attractive. But even the most attractive mate becomes routine after years of sex, and if you require new, exciting outside stimulation all the time, then she's going to notice your performance decreasing (when you get older, even subtle changes will be noticed by your mate). If you haven't had sex in two days yet you are having difficulty getting an erection in bed with her because you were using porn over that course of time, it will be noticeable and she will internalize the problem as her own. Welcome to emotional damage and strife.

I got to the point where sex with her became a chore. I would loathe going to bed with her and hope she fell asleep so I could sneak off and fap. Now that I am actively controlling this urge, sex with her is amazing every time. I worship every inch of her body and sex often feels like the first time. The difference is night and day, and the cause is obvious.

Wallstreet: "Why don't you just improve your pick-up game so that you can see women naked in a way in which they approve?"

I've tried living the fast-life and, even if I didn't have a family to worry about, it's just not for me. I like having one extremely-attractive gf as opposed to depending on going out all the time and picking easy girls (if they aren't easy, then how do you get laid often-enough to survive?). I know other people who do that, and their personalities are much different than mine; they are quick to rush in and steal a kiss from a girl, are good at telling them what they want to hear... My style is to sit back and take my time. I am turned off by sluttiness and I avoid girls who attract a lot of male attention. I like to find that girl who's too good for that stuff because I'm too good for it as well.

"Also, I guess I have the opposite side of the same problem: I like when people watch me."

Wiki the term "voyeurism." It is inherently covert, and if someone was watching you you wouldn't know it because you're not involved.

I have always had a high sense of fidelity, which is ironically why I ended up in that situation. After all, I could have just went and cheated on her when things went south... But somehow I justified a lot of it by the fact that these girls were completely oblivious to what I was doing - I wasn't giving myself to them... I wasn't giving them my love or affection. That's where the rub with porno comes into play: are you cheating when you watch porno? If you're not cheating, then voyeurism is the logical next step, because it's sort of just porno that's live instead of filmed.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
DakotaKrafick
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4/19/2013 6:21:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/19/2013 12:35:38 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Great story. Why don't you just improve your pick-up game so that you can see women naked in a way in which they approve?

Also, I guess I have the opposite side of the same problem: I like when people watch me.

Same here. My girlfriend and I often have sex in front of open windows or in public or even while live-streaming online. I'm a much bigger exhibitionist than I am a voyeur.

To all the starving voyeurs, you should just find an exhibitionist couple.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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4/19/2013 7:11:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/19/2013 6:21:17 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:
At 4/19/2013 12:35:38 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
Great story. Why don't you just improve your pick-up game so that you can see women naked in a way in which they approve?

Also, I guess I have the opposite side of the same problem: I like when people watch me.

Same here. My girlfriend and I often have sex in front of open windows or in public or even while live-streaming online. I'm a much bigger exhibitionist than I am a voyeur.

To all the starving voyeurs, you should just find an exhibitionist couple.

*Brofive*
I think part of what turns voyeurs on is the thought that the people they're watching don't know they're being watched. I guess OP can confirm or deny this.
DRUG HARM: http://imgur.com...
Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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4/19/2013 7:41:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I think it is great that you let it out in the open to prevent yourself from falling to the temptation of doing it again. While I am surprised that your girlfriend is okay with it, it seems you are a lucky guy to be in a relationship with someone who is forgiving.
R0b1Billion
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4/19/2013 8:04:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dakota: To all the starving voyeurs, you should just find an exhibitionist couple.

Finding others who are your type is very difficult, and is part of life's struggle. We spend much of our lives finding our perfect mate, and some people never do.

Wallstreet: I think part of what turns voyeurs on is the thought that the people they're watching don't know they're being watched. I guess OP can confirm or deny this.

First off, I technically may be a sexual deviant but it's not by choice - I just want a normal life. I would say that Dakota is far more kinky than I am, I was just at a low point in my life and I am LONG over with it. I want a wife, kids, white-picket fence, and a normal monogamous relationship.

Therefore I cannot really attest to what an open, practicing voyeur would want. It served me at the time because I didn't want to cheat on my gf and I was able to BS myself into thinking it wasn't as bad. If I inductively ascribe my traits upward to all voyeurs, I would come to the conclusion that they would love to have their "targets" in on it, but that's a pretty weak inductive argument considering my sample size is 1. I wouldn't imagine we are going to get a flood of voyeurs on here to increase that, as they are by nature hidden.

F16: My gf was not fine with it. She didn't know until we broke up a year or two later and I finally came out with it. I think that the secret was a big part of our separation because I wanted to get it off my chest and I knew that if I broke up with her first then I wouldn't have to deal with her judging me for it and going through the long process of healing from it (which would have involved quite a bit of negativity towards me for obvious reasons). Once we were done, it was easier to talk about it, although I definitely regret that reasoning now.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
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4/19/2013 8:27:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/19/2013 8:04:51 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
Dakota: To all the starving voyeurs, you should just find an exhibitionist couple.

Finding others who are your type is very difficult, and is part of life's struggle. We spend much of our lives finding our perfect mate, and some people never do.

I guess that's true but it's not like you're looking for another person to be your soul mate. You're just looking for a couple who you think is attractive enough to fap to. Can't be that hard; I mean, you did say you watched porn.

Wallstreet: I think part of what turns voyeurs on is the thought that the people they're watching don't know they're being watched. I guess OP can confirm or deny this.

First off, I technically may be a sexual deviant but it's not by choice - I just want a normal life. I would say that Dakota is far more kinky than I am, I was just at a low point in my life and I am LONG over with it. I want a wife, kids, white-picket fence, and a normal monogamous relationship.

Very few can match my magnitude of kinkiness. Luckily, my girlfriend is one of them, but it's not like I have every fetish in the book. For instance, I'm not turned on by feet (like many seem to be for some reason) and if you touch mine you are far more likely to tickle me than arouse.
R0b1Billion
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4/19/2013 9:58:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/19/2013 8:27:47 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:

Very few can match my magnitude of kinkiness.

Yeah I got that when you were talking about live-streaming lol.

Luckily, my girlfriend is one of them, but it's not like I have every fetish in the book. For instance, I'm not turned on by feet (like many seem to be for some reason) and if you touch mine you are far more likely to tickle me than arouse.

I'm definitely a foot-person. It's funny how feet are such a hit-or-miss for some people... I need a girl who a) has sexy feet and b) likes them being touched. The last time I was with a girl I practically made love to her feet for quite a while. When I get with a girl who gets weird about that, it's a big turn-off. Suffice to say, when I fall in love, I want every inch of her, not just some parts.

One thing I'm not into is anal. Don't get me wrong, that's like my favorite part of a girl's body, but there's no way I'm shoving all X inches (sorry ladies, find out for yourself lol) of me inside that little thing. And I don't want to seet what it's going to look like when I take it out!

One interesting philosophical point about sex is the spectrum of kinkiness. I'm obviously a prude to you, and you're a freak to me. What's the ideal spot? If it's not a spot, then what's the ideal range? Is it totally relative? I honestly have no answers to this.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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4/19/2013 10:02:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Hey Dakota maybe we should face-off in some live-streaming competitions. I think we can make a debate out of that, let me butter-up Airmax a little so we get it passed. I'll send you a challenge.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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4/19/2013 10:33:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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4/19/2013 10:42:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/19/2013 10:38:13 PM, johnnyboy54 wrote:
That took some stones. I know I couldn't confess such a thing.

true, the fact that you told your family much more so than you told us.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
R0b1Billion
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4/20/2013 1:15:31 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
johnny: "That took some stones. I know I couldn't confess such a thing."

I'm not especially courageous, I simply understand that what others think of me really doesn't matter. The few people in my life who understand the value of my character cannot be swayed by this... the ones who are never mattered in the first place. Faith is invincibility.

Lewis: "true, the fact that you told your family much more so than you told us."

Yes, this medium is particularly low-risk. I will never have to look you in the eyes.

If I had heard someone tell this story ten years ago, I wouldn't have believed I would end up being the main character. I'm not saying that any of you could someday be capable of this, but I am saying that you should be mindful of the fact that there will be a time in your life where your will is going to be broken. It's not a question of "if," but "when." You won't see it coming, you won't be prepared for it, and you won't necessarily avoid destruction. But you will survive, and the destruction it causes in your life will either become a source of strength or a source of weakness based on how you deal with it. If I had held this inside, it would be a constant drain on my self-esteem, causing me paranoia and guilt.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
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4/20/2013 2:44:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/19/2013 9:58:08 PM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 4/19/2013 8:27:47 PM, DakotaKrafick wrote:

Very few can match my magnitude of kinkiness.

Yeah I got that when you were talking about live-streaming lol.

Luckily, my girlfriend is one of them, but it's not like I have every fetish in the book. For instance, I'm not turned on by feet (like many seem to be for some reason) and if you touch mine you are far more likely to tickle me than arouse.

I'm definitely a foot-person. It's funny how feet are such a hit-or-miss for some people... I need a girl who a) has sexy feet and b) likes them being touched. The last time I was with a girl I practically made love to her feet for quite a while. When I get with a girl who gets weird about that, it's a big turn-off. Suffice to say, when I fall in love, I want every inch of her, not just some parts.

Man, you foot-lovers are weird. lol Anyway, it's not that I don't like my girlfriend's feet; I love them and think they're cute. I'm just not sexually aroused by them.

One thing I'm not into is anal. Don't get me wrong, that's like my favorite part of a girl's body, but there's no way I'm shoving all X inches (sorry ladies, find out for yourself lol) of me inside that little thing. And I don't want to seet what it's going to look like when I take it out!

My girlfriend and I both agree with you on this actually... no anal for us. The only reason I was ever interested in anal to begin with (and this may be embarrassing to admit, but whatever) is because when I was a virgin, I thought anal was the only way to do someone doggy-style, and I loved the idea of doggy-style. Well, when I realized that wasn't the case, my interest in anal plummeted. lol

One interesting philosophical point about sex is the spectrum of kinkiness. I'm obviously a prude to you, and you're a freak to me. What's the ideal spot? If it's not a spot, then what's the ideal range? Is it totally relative? I honestly have no answers to this.

I think the ideal level of kinkiness is that which is compatible to the level(s) of kinkiness of whoever you choose to be sexually active with, so I'd say it's relative.
johnnyboy54
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4/20/2013 8:11:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 4/20/2013 1:15:31 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
johnny: "That took some stones. I know I couldn't confess such a thing."

I'm not especially courageous, I simply understand that what others think of me really doesn't matter. The few people in my life who understand the value of my character cannot be swayed by this... the ones who are never mattered in the first place. Faith is invincibility.

I admire your certainty. And while I mostly agree, what would you have done if a close friend or family member completely rejected you for it?
I didn't order assholes with my whiskey.
R0b1Billion
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4/20/2013 9:34:23 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Dakota: "I think the ideal level of kinkiness is that which is compatible to the level(s) of kinkiness of whoever you choose to be sexually active with, so I'd say it's relative."

It would have to be. Or else the entire concept is meaningless...

Johnny: "I admire your certainty. And while I mostly agree, what would you have done if a close friend or family member completely rejected you for it?"

Your profile says you are Christian... Is "faith" only doing the things which you view are not going to cause you any possible risk? The parable of Kane and Abel is quite clear, and Jesus also says numerous times not to worry about worldly things (only worry about your adherence to your principles). So, even if I was COMPLETELY rejected by everyone, I should not worry about it because I will be taken care of - new people will enter my life, inevitably, to replace them. You can look at the story of Job for this answer as well, or simply think as a free-market capitalist - if I have value, then I will be subjected to the demand for that value. It makes no sense to say that I will simply be black-balled and lonely indefinitely, although I can count on some level of it as a result of my actions.

I should say that I shouldn't insinuate that I've blasted this out on FB and told everyone I know about it; most of my friends haven't found out yet. This thread is a step for me to close that gap because my shame is disappearing (as a result of my openness) and the only shame left is only a function of the fact that others don't know. I will be happy and relieved when there is no more secrecy and I have told most everyone that matters in my life. Will I lose some friends? I count on it.
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.