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Strategies/tips in learning a second language

Noumena
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5/12/2013 10:31:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I've been thinking about learning a second language (German or French preferably) but I'm not sure exactly where to start. Does anyone have thoughts/tips from personal experience in doing so or relevant sources that could help?
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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5/12/2013 10:36:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Yes, plenty. First, I'd suggest that you fully abstain from college courses or anything similar if you want to learn how to speak a language, and nothing more. Second, watching television, reading, and listening in the language you wish to learn greatly helps you in learning it. I took German as a second-language in elementary and high school -- and while learning new things was easy, my start was very good because of my pronunciation and reading, both skills increased when watching German television during age 7-10.

Conversing with people who speak the language helps, too. There is a website called Livemocha -- free to use for the most, I believe -- in which you can learn a lot of a new language. For example, you can read something in a language, translate it on your own, and people who know the language will comment on it. Definitely check it out.
Mirza
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5/12/2013 10:37:16 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
In addition - language-learning skills decrease significantly with age, so learning now while you're still young comes with vast advantages.
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
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5/12/2013 10:41:30 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I took standard high school classes up to AP, and keep up with it by reading French, listening to French music, and watching French movies. If I get instructions for anything I try to read the French ones before the English one, and engage in conversation with other people. Learning the language is just memorization, it's the practice which is crucial to really cementing what you've learned while familiarizing yourself with many of the subtler aspects of foreign tongue.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
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YYW
Posts: 36,243
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5/12/2013 10:41:56 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/12/2013 10:31:35 PM, Noumena wrote:
I've been thinking about learning a second language (German or French preferably) but I'm not sure exactly where to start. Does anyone have thoughts/tips from personal experience in doing so or relevant sources that could help?

I'll tell you the same thing that one of my German professors told me when I was a freshman: date a guy who speaks whatever language you want to learn, and insist that he speaks to you in only that language. You'll learn very quickly that way.
airmax1227
Posts: 13,228
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5/12/2013 10:47:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't have anything too practical to suggest, although language learning software or a tutor is always helpful.

I learned to speak modern Hebrew by living in a country that spoke the language. It also helped that my girlfriend there didn't speak much english, forcing me to learn the language pretty quickly. After a couple months I could speak it pretty well.

So if at all possible, surround yourself with people who speak the language you want to learn. If not, get a language to language dictionary and read some books in that language. Taking language classes is a big help. Try watching movies in that language with subtitles, that's helped for me too.
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Mirza
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5/12/2013 10:50:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/12/2013 10:47:06 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
Taking language classes is a big help.
Unless the course is all about language-learning and nothing related to its history, literature, and whatnot - I see no good reason to waste the time. A better option is to join freelance groups who can help with teaching a new language. There are probably plenty out there. I can imagine it being more fun, engaging, and useful.
airmax1227
Posts: 13,228
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5/12/2013 10:57:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/12/2013 10:50:35 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 5/12/2013 10:47:06 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
Taking language classes is a big help.
Unless the course is all about language-learning and nothing related to its history, literature, and whatnot - I see no good reason to waste the time. A better option is to join freelance groups who can help with teaching a new language. There are probably plenty out there. I can imagine it being more fun, engaging, and useful.

Yeah, I agree. Language classes are good for a foundation, but tend to be a drag in my experience.
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Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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5/12/2013 11:07:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Thanks for the input all. I have a friend, who's been picking up Japanese fr the last few months, who told me a lot of the same things (e.g. Immersion and the like). The repetition of some of those methods plus the inclusion of new ones I hadn't heard make me slightly more confident in my ability to do this.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Mirza
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5/12/2013 11:12:08 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
If you decide to learn German, I can send you a scheme of word categories (etcetera) that my old teacher once made. It's excellent.
Noumena
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5/12/2013 11:14:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm leaning towards French since my sister speaks a bit. Plus I took a few years in HS so I at least have some (albeit weak) foundations to start with.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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5/12/2013 11:25:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I was a Korean linguist in the military. What attracted me to Korean was that I knew beforehand that after learning Korean in a classroom environment, the likelihood I would be sent to Korea was extremely high. I spent over 4 years "in country". This is in contradistinction to languages like Spanish, Chinese, or Russian, where the assignments were still in the US.

Ironically, even with this immersion, I found that what I lacked most of all was an additional classroom foundation, so what I would like to stress is that a balance between the two (with an overweight on immersion) is quite important. At some point you will have questions as to how and why people are talking in a certain manner, and conversing with friends and people on the street do not necessarily answer these questions.

Total, I had 3 semesters' worth of rather intense language training at the Defense Language Institute before being assigned to Korea. Although I learned quickly that there was a lot of classroom stuff that you simply throw out the window once you are actually using the language, that classroom environment gave me the foundation to be able to ask the right questions and recognize why people were talking in a certain manner. With more actual tutelage, I probably would have solidified my language skills far beyond proficiency (where I was and still am at) and into the realm of actual fluidity. People are impressed that I can operate in Korean to a reasonable capacity, but there's no way I could function in a Korean version of this website, for example (or perhaps I could...I would love to find out, lol)
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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5/13/2013 1:18:16 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
at your age, you won't be able to fluently learn it unless you spend at least 8 months in a country that speaks the language.
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FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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5/13/2013 2:08:13 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Listen to music in that language.
Put stickers on everything in your house sayings it's word in that language.
Try to think in the other language.
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GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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5/13/2013 3:00:08 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/13/2013 2:08:13 AM, FREEDO wrote:
Listen to music in that language.
Put stickers on everything in your house sayings it's word in that language.
Try to think in the other language.

Right on. Translate a couple of your thoughts every day into your target language. I have my phone, PS3, and computer Spanish. I've learned a lot from this.

At 5/13/2013 1:18:16 AM, Smithereens wrote:
at your age, you won't be able to fluently learn it unless you spend at least 8 months in a country that speaks the language.

Lol, that is bullsh!t. You can learn a language equally well at ANY age. Go to fluentin3months.com.
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Idiot
Posts: 347
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5/13/2013 12:37:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/12/2013 10:31:35 PM, Noumena wrote:
I've been thinking about learning a second language (German or French preferably) but I'm not sure exactly where to start. Does anyone have thoughts/tips from personal experience in doing so or relevant sources that could help?

http://www.memrise.com... mebbe?
Eitan_Zohar
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5/13/2013 2:15:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/12/2013 10:47:06 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
I don't have anything too practical to suggest, although language learning software or a tutor is always helpful.

I learned to speak modern Hebrew by living in a country that spoke the language. It also helped that my girlfriend there didn't speak much english, forcing me to learn the language pretty quickly. After a couple months I could speak it pretty well.

Two years there and I know about a hundred commonly used nouns.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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5/13/2013 2:19:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
My priorities are, in order:

Hebrew
Levantine Arabic
German

What are some recommendations to come after those?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
vbaculum
Posts: 1,274
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5/13/2013 2:47:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Here is a nice, free course that immerses you in French:
http://www.learner.org...

I really liked learing French this way because it's basically a story in French that you learn to follow with the help of an instructor. Not sure if there is a German version, though.
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RyuuKyuzo
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5/13/2013 6:06:20 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Looks like you've pretty much been given all the advice you'll need.

For something a little more general; if you want to learn a language, pick the language that's closest to the one you already know. Don't jump right into something like Japanese, for example =_______=

It's better to start off with the most similar language to your own, then branch off from there. The more languages you know, the easier learning them is.
If you're reading this, you're awesome and you should feel awesome.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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5/13/2013 7:44:15 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/12/2013 10:31:35 PM, Noumena wrote:
I've been thinking about learning a second language (German or French preferably) but I'm not sure exactly where to start. Does anyone have thoughts/tips from personal experience in doing so or relevant sources that could help?

The absolute best thing you could do is find a friend or something you enjoy talking to/being with who speaks that language.

If you happen to be quite wealthy, the quickest way is total "immersion" into the culture which will probably make you fluent in a few months (caveat: this measurement was with a women in her late teens learning Polish who was already bilingual regarding Spanish) The older you are the harder/long it takes.
Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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5/13/2013 7:46:00 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I focus on socialization because it's basically "reverse-engineering" how humans learn their first languages.

When young, it almost always comes from person-to-person socialization where one party can provide negative or positive feedback to word usage. It used to be thought we had some primed "innate grammar" to take care of everything, but in reality it's social experience that is most important.
Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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5/13/2013 7:58:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
1. Pirate a copy of the Rosetta Stone language of your choice, greedily devour the content.
2. Meet some local people who speak that language and befriend them; go onto chatroulette, select the settings to only show people from Germany or France, and have conversations with them. Meet up with them on skype/facebook chat and continue your friendship/flirtationship in the language of your choice.
3. Visit the country and imbibe as much of the culture, language, and food as much as possible.
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Wnope
Posts: 6,924
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5/13/2013 11:14:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/13/2013 7:58:18 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
1. Pirate a copy of the Rosetta Stone language of your choice, greedily devour the content.
2. Meet some local people who speak that language and befriend them; go onto chatroulette, select the settings to only show people from Germany or France, and have conversations with them. Meet up with them on skype/facebook chat and continue your friendship/flirtationship in the language of your choice.
3. Visit the country and imbibe as much of the culture, language, and food as much as possible.

Have you actually tried Rosetta?

I've always wondered what the fuss was about (other than good marketing).
GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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5/14/2013 4:18:22 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/13/2013 11:14:40 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 5/13/2013 7:58:18 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
1. Pirate a copy of the Rosetta Stone language of your choice, greedily devour the content.
2. Meet some local people who speak that language and befriend them; go onto chatroulette, select the settings to only show people from Germany or France, and have conversations with them. Meet up with them on skype/facebook chat and continue your friendship/flirtationship in the language of your choice.
3. Visit the country and imbibe as much of the culture, language, and food as much as possible.

Have you actually tried Rosetta?

I've always wondered what the fuss was about (other than good marketing).

DO NOT BUY ROSETTA. It does not work, plain and simple. I guarantee you will not find a single person who is fluent in any language who attributes their success to Rosetta.

By the way, as adults, you can't just start from nothing and jump into total immersion. You will be wasting your time. You need to study a new language for a couple hundred hours perhaps to get a basic understanding of how it works, THEN go for immersion.

If you don't do this, you will make some bad habits that are very hard to get rid of. E.g. learning Spanish from merely immersion, you will have a lot of problems with conjugations of words that are stressed on the letter 'O' and the letter 'E'. O often changes to UE when stressed and E often changes to IE. From the point of view of a native speaker, this is no problem because they find it difficult to even pronounce stressed Os and Es between consonants, and they tend towards the correct pronunciation. But as an English speaker, you will probably pick up the habit of making errors like, saying TIENEMOS instead of TENEMOS, or VOLVO instead of VUELVO.

I highly recommend fluentin3months it's a great site.
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Wallstreetatheist
Posts: 7,132
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5/14/2013 1:41:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 4:18:22 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
At 5/13/2013 11:14:40 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 5/13/2013 7:58:18 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
1. Pirate a copy of the Rosetta Stone language of your choice, greedily devour the content.
2. Meet some local people who speak that language and befriend them; go onto chatroulette, select the settings to only show people from Germany or France, and have conversations with them. Meet up with them on skype/facebook chat and continue your friendship/flirtationship in the language of your choice.
3. Visit the country and imbibe as much of the culture, language, and food as much as possible.

Have you actually tried Rosetta?

I've always wondered what the fuss was about (other than good marketing).

DO NOT BUY ROSETTA. It does not work, plain and simple. I guarantee you will not find a single person who is fluent in any language who attributes their success to Rosetta.

By the way, as adults, you can't just start from nothing and jump into total immersion. You will be wasting your time. You need to study a new language for a couple hundred hours perhaps to get a basic understanding of how it works, THEN go for immersion.

If you don't do this, you will make some bad habits that are very hard to get rid of. E.g. learning Spanish from merely immersion, you will have a lot of problems with conjugations of words that are stressed on the letter 'O' and the letter 'E'. O often changes to UE when stressed and E often changes to IE. From the point of view of a native speaker, this is no problem because they find it difficult to even pronounce stressed Os and Es between consonants, and they tend towards the correct pronunciation. But as an English speaker, you will probably pick up the habit of making errors like, saying TIENEMOS instead of TENEMOS, or VOLVO instead of VUELVO.

I highly recommend fluentin3months it's a great site.

No one recommended buying Rosetta Stone, you dingus.
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Primal Diet. Lifting. Reading. Psychedelics. Cold-Approach Pickup. Music.
GarretKadeDupre
Posts: 2,023
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5/14/2013 5:49:27 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 5/14/2013 1:41:32 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
At 5/14/2013 4:18:22 AM, GarretKadeDupre wrote:
At 5/13/2013 11:14:40 PM, Wnope wrote:
At 5/13/2013 7:58:18 PM, Wallstreetatheist wrote:
1. Pirate a copy of the Rosetta Stone language of your choice, greedily devour the content.
2. Meet some local people who speak that language and befriend them; go onto chatroulette, select the settings to only show people from Germany or France, and have conversations with them. Meet up with them on skype/facebook chat and continue your friendship/flirtationship in the language of your choice.
3. Visit the country and imbibe as much of the culture, language, and food as much as possible.

Have you actually tried Rosetta?

I've always wondered what the fuss was about (other than good marketing).

DO NOT BUY ROSETTA. It does not work, plain and simple. I guarantee you will not find a single person who is fluent in any language who attributes their success to Rosetta.

By the way, as adults, you can't just start from nothing and jump into total immersion. You will be wasting your time. You need to study a new language for a couple hundred hours perhaps to get a basic understanding of how it works, THEN go for immersion.

If you don't do this, you will make some bad habits that are very hard to get rid of. E.g. learning Spanish from merely immersion, you will have a lot of problems with conjugations of words that are stressed on the letter 'O' and the letter 'E'. O often changes to UE when stressed and E often changes to IE. From the point of view of a native speaker, this is no problem because they find it difficult to even pronounce stressed Os and Es between consonants, and they tend towards the correct pronunciation. But as an English speaker, you will probably pick up the habit of making errors like, saying TIENEMOS instead of TENEMOS, or VOLVO instead of VUELVO.

I highly recommend fluentin3months it's a great site.

No one recommended buying Rosetta Stone, you dingus.

Sorry I'm passionate about this subject. But you should have got the message anyways... do not waste any time with rosetta stone.
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