Total Posts:46|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Don't Analyze Songs

Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 4:15:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Does anybody else agree with me that songs shouldn't analyzed? By taking apart the lyrics of the song, you somehow destroy its nature (hard to explain). Songs are meant to be something beyond the combination of lyrics to form words.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 4:16:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Understanding the lyrics is all fine and dandy, but I'm more talking about those people that write essays about the meaning of specific songs.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 4:45:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 4:15:42 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Songs are meant to be something beyond the combination of lyrics to form words.
Someone call the police, English is being massacred!
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 4:52:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 4:45:43 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 6/2/2013 4:15:42 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Songs are meant to be something beyond the combination of lyrics to form words.
Someone call the police, English is being massacred!

Are you implying that there is some kind of grammatical error in that statement? I see none.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 4:54:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I take the opposite stance. I think that, when it comes to music written from the jazz age onwards, the theme of the typical song has been steadily transferred from the actual music to the lyrics. If you aren't striving to understand the lyrics, then you aren't understanding what the artist is trying to communicate, which is the point of any form of art. By not understanding the lyrics, what was once accompanied poetry is reduced to simple noise.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 5:13:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 4:52:40 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/2/2013 4:45:43 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 6/2/2013 4:15:42 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Songs are meant to be something beyond the combination of lyrics to form words.
Someone call the police, English is being massacred!

Are you implying that there is some kind of grammatical error in that statement? I see none.

"Songs are meant to be something beyond the combination of words to form lyrics."
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 5:17:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 5:13:47 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 6/2/2013 4:52:40 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/2/2013 4:45:43 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 6/2/2013 4:15:42 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Songs are meant to be something beyond the combination of lyrics to form words.
Someone call the police, English is being massacred!

Are you implying that there is some kind of grammatical error in that statement? I see none.

"Songs are meant to be something beyond the combination of words to form lyrics."

?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 5:19:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 5:17:55 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/2/2013 5:13:47 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 6/2/2013 4:52:40 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/2/2013 4:45:43 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 6/2/2013 4:15:42 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Songs are meant to be something beyond the combination of lyrics to form words.
Someone call the police, English is being massacred!

Are you implying that there is some kind of grammatical error in that statement? I see none.

"Songs are meant to be something beyond the combination of words to form lyrics."

?

words form lyrics not the other way around
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 5:19:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 4:54:07 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I take the opposite stance. I think that, when it comes to music written from the jazz age onwards, the theme of the typical song has been steadily transferred from the actual music to the lyrics. If you aren't striving to understand the lyrics, then you aren't understanding what the artist is trying to communicate, which is the point of any form of art. By not understanding the lyrics, what was once accompanied poetry is reduced to simple noise.

You are misunderstanding me. It's fine to understand the lyrics, but to over-analyze all the small nuances that the singer is trying to communicate makes the song lose its poetic feeling. Obviously, I'm not talking about Nicki Minaj sh!t- instead, I'm talking more about artists like Leonard Cohen.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 5:20:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 5:19:28 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 6/2/2013 5:17:55 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/2/2013 5:13:47 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 6/2/2013 4:52:40 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/2/2013 4:45:43 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 6/2/2013 4:15:42 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Songs are meant to be something beyond the combination of lyrics to form words.
Someone call the police, English is being massacred!

Are you implying that there is some kind of grammatical error in that statement? I see none.

"Songs are meant to be something beyond the combination of words to form lyrics."

?

words form lyrics not the other way around

That's exactly what I said....
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 5:21:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 5:17:55 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
?
He says you're a good guy and your English is just as good. Now sleep tight little kiddie, and don't open the closet 'cus there's a brain-swallowing monster in there!
cybertron1998
Posts: 5,818
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 5:22:12 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 5:20:32 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/2/2013 5:19:28 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 6/2/2013 5:17:55 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/2/2013 5:13:47 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 6/2/2013 4:52:40 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/2/2013 4:45:43 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 6/2/2013 4:15:42 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Songs are meant to be something beyond the combination of lyrics to form words.
Someone call the police, English is being massacred!

Are you implying that there is some kind of grammatical error in that statement? I see none.

"Songs are meant to be something beyond the combination of words to form lyrics."

?

words form lyrics not the other way around

That's exactly what I said....

no you said and i quote "the combination of lyrics to form words"
Epsilon: There are so many stories where some brave hero decides to give their life to save the day, and because of their sacrifice, the good guys win, the survivors all cheer, and everybody lives happily ever after. But the hero... never gets to see that ending. They'll never know if their sacrifice actually made a difference. They'll never know if the day was really saved. In the end, they just have to have faith.
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 5:24:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 5:22:12 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 6/2/2013 5:20:32 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/2/2013 5:19:28 PM, cybertron1998 wrote:
At 6/2/2013 5:17:55 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/2/2013 5:13:47 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 6/2/2013 4:52:40 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/2/2013 4:45:43 PM, Mirza wrote:
At 6/2/2013 4:15:42 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Songs are meant to be something beyond the combination of lyrics to form words.
Someone call the police, English is being massacred!

Are you implying that there is some kind of grammatical error in that statement? I see none.

"Songs are meant to be something beyond the combination of words to form lyrics."

?

words form lyrics not the other way around

That's exactly what I said....

no you said and i quote "the combination of lyrics to form words"

Ah... I was thinking that the bolded was my writing. Yes, I was wrong.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 5:36:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 5:19:53 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 6/2/2013 4:54:07 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
I take the opposite stance. I think that, when it comes to music written from the jazz age onwards, the theme of the typical song has been steadily transferred from the actual music to the lyrics. If you aren't striving to understand the lyrics, then you aren't understanding what the artist is trying to communicate, which is the point of any form of art. By not understanding the lyrics, what was once accompanied poetry is reduced to simple noise.

You are misunderstanding me. It's fine to understand the lyrics, but to over-analyze all the small nuances that the singer is trying to communicate makes the song lose its poetic feeling. Obviously, I'm not talking about Nicki Minaj sh!t- instead, I'm talking more about artists like Leonard Cohen.

In that case, I think that it depends. Certain things are very cryptic, and demand to be dug into quite deeply. When it comes to poetry, T.S. Eliot's 'The Wasteland' is a good example of this, as you have to understand his personal trials at the time to understand the work. When it comes to music, Imogen Heap's 'Hide and Seek' needs to be listened to intently to discern that it's about leaving her childhood home after a divorce. The horrible remix of an excerpt from that song (that 'Mmmm, whatcha say' song a few years back) completely butchers the meaning of the original. Dido's 'Don't Leave Home' is sung from the perspective of an addictive drug, and the meaning isn't obvious until that is taken into account. Her song Isobel is one that I've picked over quite thoroughly, and I'm still not sure whether her friend killed herself or ran away. Maybe I'm not supposed to be sure. But I'm sure I wouldn't feel the full impact of the song if I hadn't spent as much think thinking about it. Florence and the Machine's "I'm Not Calling You a Liar" and Garbage's "Push It" and "Man on a Wire" are pieces that I also have uncertain interpretations of, though I always get something out of puzzling over their meaning.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 7:19:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Songwriters are like artists. They carefully choose their words to convey a specific meaning. There's nothing wrong with analyzing this-it helps us understand the song.
leojm
Posts: 1,825
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 7:54:26 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 4:15:42 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Does anybody else agree with me that songs shouldn't analyzed? By taking apart the lyrics of the song, you somehow destroy its nature (hard to explain). Songs are meant to be something beyond the combination of lyrics to form words.

Yes I agree with you. I think it takes the meaning away from the song.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 8:40:31 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Here's a challenge for anyone willing to accept it:

What does this song mean?

I've thought about it on and off for a long time, and could never make it out (not that I tried researching or anything). I'd ask people why they liked it, and yeah it sounds great, but other than that no one could really say why.

I also didn't really care that much when Kurt Cobain committed suicide. I've never understood the public outcry over it. None of it meant anything to me, and if that's the point of the song, that it's meaningless, that's the only interpretation that I've been willing to accept so far.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 9:09:22 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 8:40:31 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
Here's a challenge for anyone willing to accept it:

What does this song mean?

I've thought about it on and off for a long time, and could never make it out (not that I tried researching or anything). I'd ask people why they liked it, and yeah it sounds great, but other than that no one could really say why.

I also didn't really care that much when Kurt Cobain committed suicide. I've never understood the public outcry over it. None of it meant anything to me, and if that's the point of the song, that it's meaningless, that's the only interpretation that I've been willing to accept so far.

I think it's actually about heroin addiction.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 9:16:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 9:09:22 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/2/2013 8:40:31 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
Here's a challenge for anyone willing to accept it:

What does this song mean?

I've thought about it on and off for a long time, and could never make it out (not that I tried researching or anything). I'd ask people why they liked it, and yeah it sounds great, but other than that no one could really say why.

I also didn't really care that much when Kurt Cobain committed suicide. I've never understood the public outcry over it. None of it meant anything to me, and if that's the point of the song, that it's meaningless, that's the only interpretation that I've been willing to accept so far.

I think it's actually about heroin addiction.

lol thanks! Care to explain? XD
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 9:21:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 9:16:37 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
lol thanks! Care to explain? XD

Nirvana have a lot of metaphor in their music.

"Load up on guns; bring your friends"

Guns = needles

"With the lights out, it's less dangerous"

The feeling of life being ok when high but not otherwise.

"I feel stupid and contagious"

He feels stupid for starting and for being a bad influence.

"A mulatto"

Which is typically a person born to a black parent and a white parent. But it could be brown heroin mixed with water.

"a mosquito"

The feeling of the needle.

"And I forget just why I taste"

Doesn't know why he does it.

"Oh yeah, I guess it makes me smile"

Answering himself why he does.

"Oh well, whatever, never mind"

Accepting defeat against it.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 9:31:33 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I also think they intentionally put out false interpretations of their songs.

Teen Spirit is supposed to be mocking the idea of revolution.

But heart-shaped box is supposed to be about kids with cancer. When it obviously isn't.

But who knows, maybe he wasn't actually as smart as he appeared.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
Skepsikyma
Posts: 8,280
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 9:57:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
This should totally turn into a song analysis thread.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
- Hilaire Belloc -
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 9:59:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 9:57:21 PM, Skepsikyma wrote:
This should totally turn into a song analysis thread.

Haha, seconded.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 9:59:39 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 4:16:33 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Understanding the lyrics is all fine and dandy, but I'm more talking about those people that write essays about the meaning of specific songs.

I hadn't read this post. I agree.

No one puts that much thought into a song when they write it.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 10:33:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 9:59:39 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/2/2013 4:16:33 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Understanding the lyrics is all fine and dandy, but I'm more talking about those people that write essays about the meaning of specific songs.

I hadn't read this post. I agree.

No one puts that much thought into a song when they write it.

Did you know that this song is straight out of Nietzsche?

Love this song btw...
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 10:36:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 9:31:33 PM, FREEDO wrote:
I also think they intentionally put out false interpretations of their songs.

Teen Spirit is supposed to be mocking the idea of revolution.

But heart-shaped box is supposed to be about kids with cancer. When it obviously isn't.

But who knows, maybe he wasn't actually as smart as he appeared.

You are a genius. =D

So, they put out false leads because if it ever came out that this song was about heroin, it probably would have flopped amidst the dogpile of parents trying to bury this song. Instead it becomes...whatever it is today.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2013 10:36:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/2/2013 10:33:32 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 6/2/2013 9:59:39 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 6/2/2013 4:16:33 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Understanding the lyrics is all fine and dandy, but I'm more talking about those people that write essays about the meaning of specific songs.

I hadn't read this post. I agree.

No one puts that much thought into a song when they write it.

Did you know that this song is straight out of Nietzsche?


Love this song btw...

I call and raise you:

https://www.youtube.com...
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."