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Help me pick a career

000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/28/2013 9:36:30 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Most of you are college students or college graduates, so you've definitely already gone through this process. So if you wouldn't mind offering some suggestions, I've completely drawn a blank.

These are the only fields I will consider:
1. Law
2. Business
3. Science

I need something that allows enough free time and mostly definite hours (so long as long all-day work hours aren't the norm), allows some kind of creativity in the form of problem-solving, and has some argumentative element. It also has to be a sensible conduit to public office, and it has to be high-paying.

I thought I wanted to be a lawyer, but the job really has more to do with long, strenuous, reading, writing and research than arguing. I need something that can be enjoyable and give you your own time.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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6/28/2013 9:49:50 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 9:36:30 AM, 000ike wrote:
It also has to be a sensible conduit to public office, and it has to be high-paying.

LOL
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/28/2013 9:52:49 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 9:49:50 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 6/28/2013 9:36:30 AM, 000ike wrote:
It also has to be a sensible conduit to public office, and it has to be high-paying.

LOL

yeah I know, stupid and unrealistic criteria. I just want something that hovers around that goal and has the goal as an opportunity.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
drafterman
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6/28/2013 9:54:01 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 9:52:49 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/28/2013 9:49:50 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 6/28/2013 9:36:30 AM, 000ike wrote:
It also has to be a sensible conduit to public office, and it has to be high-paying.

LOL

yeah I know, stupid and unrealistic criteria. I just want something that hovers around that goal and has the goal as an opportunity.

A high paying public office is one you are either appointed or elected to. So, technically it's already an opportunity right now.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/28/2013 9:57:24 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 9:54:01 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 6/28/2013 9:52:49 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/28/2013 9:49:50 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 6/28/2013 9:36:30 AM, 000ike wrote:
It also has to be a sensible conduit to public office, and it has to be high-paying.

LOL

yeah I know, stupid and unrealistic criteria. I just want something that hovers around that goal and has the goal as an opportunity.

A high paying public office is one you are either appointed or elected to. So, technically it's already an opportunity right now.

I want the job to be high paying...and then I work on it for a few years and then try to get into public office. I don't care about what the office pays (if its state or local, there are business opportunities that compensate, if it's national, the pay is fine). I want to get the monetary foundation on which to organize my life and perhaps start a campaign.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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6/28/2013 9:58:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Here is my experience:

1. Find someone you know to get you a job.
2. Be prepared to:
a) Work longer hours than expected (not necessarily with overtime compensation);
b) Do more than what you were hired to do;
c) Do boring, tedious, fulfilling work;
d) Get paid less than you want/need/think you deserve;
e) Do a job that has nothing to do with your experience, education, or interests;
f) Sacrifice your personal life for your job;
3. Don't expect:
a) A respect for work/life balance;
b) An appeal to your needs vis-a-vis creativity/problem-solving;
c) The tolerance for any argument or objection to your superiors;

If this is your first job, no one is going to take you seriously or respect you. You need to establish yourself. Heck, even if this is your 50th job, no one is going to respect you or take you seriously until you've established yourself.

Any job is, hypothetically, a conduit to a public office, if you can make your way to a C-Level position. There is often a lot of exchange between private sector executives and government agencies.

Basically, you either need to become friends with something that can put you in a job of your choosing, or work the long hours and hard days to climb your way into such a position.

You should expect to have none of your criteria met the first time out.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,245
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6/28/2013 10:03:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 9:57:24 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/28/2013 9:54:01 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 6/28/2013 9:52:49 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/28/2013 9:49:50 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 6/28/2013 9:36:30 AM, 000ike wrote:
It also has to be a sensible conduit to public office, and it has to be high-paying.

LOL

yeah I know, stupid and unrealistic criteria. I just want something that hovers around that goal and has the goal as an opportunity.

A high paying public office is one you are either appointed or elected to. So, technically it's already an opportunity right now.

I want the job to be high paying...and then I work on it for a few years and then try to get into public office. I don't care about what the office pays (if its state or local, there are business opportunities that compensate, if it's national, the pay is fine). I want to get the monetary foundation on which to organize my life and perhaps start a campaign.

You're an atheist nihilist...

Good luck.

With that.
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/28/2013 10:11:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 10:03:42 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 6/28/2013 9:57:24 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/28/2013 9:54:01 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 6/28/2013 9:52:49 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/28/2013 9:49:50 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 6/28/2013 9:36:30 AM, 000ike wrote:
It also has to be a sensible conduit to public office, and it has to be high-paying.

LOL

yeah I know, stupid and unrealistic criteria. I just want something that hovers around that goal and has the goal as an opportunity.

A high paying public office is one you are either appointed or elected to. So, technically it's already an opportunity right now.

I want the job to be high paying...and then I work on it for a few years and then try to get into public office. I don't care about what the office pays (if its state or local, there are business opportunities that compensate, if it's national, the pay is fine). I want to get the monetary foundation on which to organize my life and perhaps start a campaign.

You're an atheist nihilist...

Good luck.

With that.

Jesse Ventura was an atheist :p, and nihilism isn't practically applicable; I hold it in a purely metaethical sense.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/28/2013 10:15:10 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 9:58:41 AM, drafterman wrote:
Here is my experience:

1. Find someone you know to get you a job.
2. Be prepared to:
a) Work longer hours than expected (not necessarily with overtime compensation);
b) Do more than what you were hired to do;
c) Do boring, tedious, fulfilling work;
d) Get paid less than you want/need/think you deserve;
e) Do a job that has nothing to do with your experience, education, or interests;
f) Sacrifice your personal life for your job;
3. Don't expect:
a) A respect for work/life balance;
b) An appeal to your needs vis-a-vis creativity/problem-solving;
c) The tolerance for any argument or objection to your superiors;

If this is your first job, no one is going to take you seriously or respect you. You need to establish yourself. Heck, even if this is your 50th job, no one is going to respect you or take you seriously until you've established yourself.

Any job is, hypothetically, a conduit to a public office, if you can make your way to a C-Level position. There is often a lot of exchange between private sector executives and government agencies.

Basically, you either need to become friends with something that can put you in a job of your choosing, or work the long hours and hard days to climb your way into such a position.

You should expect to have none of your criteria met the first time out.

But you're a pessimistic person; are you sure this isn't just the worst case scenario (second to not finding a job at all)? Regardless, I don't have a problem with all those things as long as it's a job I enjoy - meaning that I like the subject and like working in it. So I'm asking you for suggestions based on the intrinsic natures of particular career paths. Which one at minimum allows you to inject some kind of problem-solving thinking?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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6/28/2013 10:21:15 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The OP is filled with contradictions. Law and business and you're looking for fulfillment outside of your job? LOL

At 6/28/2013 9:58:41 AM, drafterman wrote:
Here is my experience:

1. Find someone you know to get you a job.
2. Be prepared to:
a) Work longer hours than expected (not necessarily with overtime compensation);
b) Do more than what you were hired to do;
c) Do boring, tedious, fulfilling work;
d) Get paid less than you want/need/think you deserve;
e) Do a job that has nothing to do with your experience, education, or interests;
f) Sacrifice your personal life for your job;
3. Don't expect:
a) A respect for work/life balance;
b) An appeal to your needs vis-a-vis creativity/problem-solving;
c) The tolerance for any argument or objection to your superiors;

If this is your first job, no one is going to take you seriously or respect you. You need to establish yourself. Heck, even if this is your 50th job, no one is going to respect you or take you seriously until you've established yourself.

Any job is, hypothetically, a conduit to a public office, if you can make your way to a C-Level position. There is often a lot of exchange between private sector executives and government agencies.

Agree with everything above to the letter.


Basically, you either need to become friends with something that can put you in a job of your choosing, or work the long hours and hard days to climb your way into such a position.

Freudian slip?

You should expect to have none of your criteria met the first time out.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/28/2013 10:28:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 10:21:15 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
The OP is filled with contradictions. Law and business and you're looking for fulfillment outside of your job? LOL

I'll worry about outside fulfillment later. For now I just want to hone in on something I know will be fulfilling itself - meaning that I don't want to be thirty years old sitting at a desk all day reading things I don't care about it and working on things I don't care about and don't involve any sort of original intellectual effort on my part.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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6/28/2013 10:37:42 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 9:52:49 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/28/2013 9:49:50 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 6/28/2013 9:36:30 AM, 000ike wrote:
It also has to be a sensible conduit to public office, and it has to be high-paying.

LOL

yeah I know, stupid and unrealistic criteria. I just want something that hovers around that goal and has the goal as an opportunity.

You don't sound like the high-powered lawyer/businessman type to me, otherwise you wouldn't be talking much about what you'd be doing with your time off work. Given that this is true, and given that you're looking for a sensible conduit to public office, I'd look into commissioning with the military. You'll have instant credibility regarding serving the public's interest because, well, you've served.

Considering you're looking for something relatively short term, 4-6 years in the military may be right up your alley. Before you hit the higher ranks (past O-3) the work load is not severe. As long as you have a pulse and don't rape or murder someone or God forbid you get in a DUI or get caught smoking a joint you'll climb the ranks. Seniority will lead to "establishment" so you won't necessarily have to work for it, unless you're looking to make it a career, and only if you're looking to break into the military's C-suite equivalent (O-6 and above).

Considering the eligibility criteria, the pay is quite decent. Adding in non-taxable benefits, an officer with 4 years in would easily be looking at upwards of $100 - $150,000 per year. The Air Force and Navy are quite corporate, so transitioning to the private sector, if that is what you choose to do, will be relatively painless. Job security is of course quite good.

You may complain about the quality of your off time, but realistically speaking that's not what the positions you're considering are about anyway. At least in the military there will be reasonable upper limits placed upon expectations (since promotability is a largely non-fluid process) and thus you won't expect 60, 80, 100 hour work weeks off the bat (well, maybe 60). In the corporate sector there is no upper limit.

Just prepare for 2x-3x the amount of BS in drafterman's BS list as you would expect in the private sector.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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6/28/2013 10:38:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 10:28:45 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/28/2013 10:21:15 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
The OP is filled with contradictions. Law and business and you're looking for fulfillment outside of your job? LOL

I'll worry about outside fulfillment later. For now I just want to hone in on something I know will be fulfilling itself - meaning that I don't want to be thirty years old sitting at a desk all day reading things I don't care about it and working on things I don't care about and don't involve any sort of original intellectual effort on my part.

If you truly believed this then you wouldn't mind 80 hour work weeks. Again, your OP is filled with contradictions.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Buddamoose
Posts: 19,448
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6/28/2013 10:40:32 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Be a rodeo clown
"Reality is an illusion created due to a lack of alcohol"
-Airmax1227

"You were the moon all this time, and he was always there to make you shine."

"Was he the sun?"

"No honey, he was the darkness"

-Kazekirion
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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6/28/2013 10:50:04 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 10:15:10 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/28/2013 9:58:41 AM, drafterman wrote:
Here is my experience:

1. Find someone you know to get you a job.
2. Be prepared to:
a) Work longer hours than expected (not necessarily with overtime compensation);
b) Do more than what you were hired to do;
c) Do boring, tedious, [un]fulfilling work;
d) Get paid less than you want/need/think you deserve;
e) Do a job that has nothing to do with your experience, education, or interests;
f) Sacrifice your personal life for your job;
3. Don't expect:
a) A respect for work/life balance;
b) An appeal to your needs vis-a-vis creativity/problem-solving;
c) The tolerance for any argument or objection to your superiors;

If this is your first job, no one is going to take you seriously or respect you. You need to establish yourself. Heck, even if this is your 50th job, no one is going to respect you or take you seriously until you've established yourself.

Any job is, hypothetically, a conduit to a public office, if you can make your way to a C-Level position. There is often a lot of exchange between private sector executives and government agencies.

Basically, you either need to become friends with something that can put you in a job of your choosing, or work the long hours and hard days to climb your way into such a position.

You should expect to have none of your criteria met the first time out.

But you're a pessimistic person; are you sure this isn't just the worst case scenario (second to not finding a job at all)? Regardless, I don't have a problem with all those things as long as it's a job I enjoy - meaning that I like the subject and like working in it. So I'm asking you for suggestions based on the intrinsic natures of particular career paths. Which one at minimum allows you to inject some kind of problem-solving thinking?

Again, filled with contradictions.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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6/28/2013 10:51:57 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 10:15:10 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/28/2013 9:58:41 AM, drafterman wrote:
Here is my experience:

1. Find someone you know to get you a job.
2. Be prepared to:
a) Work longer hours than expected (not necessarily with overtime compensation);
b) Do more than what you were hired to do;
c) Do boring, tedious, fulfilling work;
d) Get paid less than you want/need/think you deserve;
e) Do a job that has nothing to do with your experience, education, or interests;
f) Sacrifice your personal life for your job;
3. Don't expect:
a) A respect for work/life balance;
b) An appeal to your needs vis-a-vis creativity/problem-solving;
c) The tolerance for any argument or objection to your superiors;

If this is your first job, no one is going to take you seriously or respect you. You need to establish yourself. Heck, even if this is your 50th job, no one is going to respect you or take you seriously until you've established yourself.

Any job is, hypothetically, a conduit to a public office, if you can make your way to a C-Level position. There is often a lot of exchange between private sector executives and government agencies.

Basically, you either need to become friends with something that can put you in a job of your choosing, or work the long hours and hard days to climb your way into such a position.

You should expect to have none of your criteria met the first time out.

But you're a pessimistic person; are you sure this isn't just the worst case scenario (second to not finding a job at all)?

Oh, there are plenty of worse cases than the above.

Regardless, I don't have a problem with all those things as long as it's a job I enjoy - meaning that I like the subject and like working in it. So I'm asking you for suggestions based on the intrinsic natures of particular career paths. Which one at minimum allows you to inject some kind of problem-solving thinking?

Every job has that potential, it's just getting to that point. If you are starting out and have no experience, they aren't hiring you for your problem solving skills.
benevolent
Posts: 1,040
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6/28/2013 10:52:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
He's only talking about college dude, and then drafter is being a bit too pessimistic. You're not going to end up sweeping roads with a law degree.
benevolent
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6/28/2013 10:54:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I did once spent about 4 months just locating and tagging every instrument in a power station, though. That was pretty soul-destroying.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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6/28/2013 10:57:53 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Here is the thing:

People don't get "high paying" jobs based off of advice they had to get on the internet. If you don't already, right now, have the experience, education, connections (people/organizations), and knowledge to get a high paying job, then the chances are, you aren't going to get one. Even if you see a position, they aren't going to hire you.

Let's say you are interviewed for a high paying job that meets your criteria. What do you have that is going to make a company choose you over people with Masters Degrees, decades of experience, references and connections?
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/28/2013 11:02:47 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 10:57:53 AM, drafterman wrote:
Here is the thing:

People don't get "high paying" jobs based off of advice they had to get on the internet. If you don't already, right now, have the experience, education, connections (people/organizations), and knowledge to get a high paying job, then the chances are, you aren't going to get one. Even if you see a position, they aren't going to hire you.

Let's say you are interviewed for a high paying job that meets your criteria. What do you have that is going to make a company choose you over people with Masters Degrees, decades of experience, references and connections?

I'm going into my senior year of high school and about to apply to a list of colleges. I'm trying to iron out my career path so I can decide which undergraduate and graduate schools I should target. So all I need is some career suggests that roughly meet those requirements either inherently or through a reasonable amount of time (5 years). Is that too much to ask?
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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6/28/2013 11:06:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 11:04:15 AM, benevolent wrote:
Good job derailing 000ike's thread with you depressing old man bullsh*t Drafter

I think he thought I was like 25, hadn't gone to college, and was trying to become a CEO or something. At least that's what his last comment suggests. No harm done - just want to see some more suggestions
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
drafterman
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6/28/2013 11:06:46 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 11:02:47 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/28/2013 10:57:53 AM, drafterman wrote:
Here is the thing:

People don't get "high paying" jobs based off of advice they had to get on the internet. If you don't already, right now, have the experience, education, connections (people/organizations), and knowledge to get a high paying job, then the chances are, you aren't going to get one. Even if you see a position, they aren't going to hire you.

Let's say you are interviewed for a high paying job that meets your criteria. What do you have that is going to make a company choose you over people with Masters Degrees, decades of experience, references and connections?

I'm going into my senior year of high school and about to apply to a list of colleges. I'm trying to iron out my career path so I can decide which undergraduate and graduate schools I should target. So all I need is some career suggests that roughly meet those requirements either inherently or through a reasonable amount of time (5 years). Is that too much to ask?

If that's the case then I guess I misinterpreted your question. I don't know enough about those career paths to know how likely any of them are to meet your requirements. I don't think my advice is without merit, though.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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6/28/2013 11:06:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 11:02:47 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/28/2013 10:57:53 AM, drafterman wrote:
Here is the thing:

People don't get "high paying" jobs based off of advice they had to get on the internet. If you don't already, right now, have the experience, education, connections (people/organizations), and knowledge to get a high paying job, then the chances are, you aren't going to get one. Even if you see a position, they aren't going to hire you.

Let's say you are interviewed for a high paying job that meets your criteria. What do you have that is going to make a company choose you over people with Masters Degrees, decades of experience, references and connections?

I'm going into my senior year of high school and about to apply to a list of colleges. I'm trying to iron out my career path so I can decide which undergraduate and graduate schools I should target. So all I need is some career suggests that roughly meet those requirements either inherently or through a reasonable amount of time (5 years). Is that too much to ask?

Agree largely with drafterman here. I think you're on to something about working 4-5 years and then going on to graduate school. Begin networking the moment you get into college, and don't stop.

If you take this kind of approach, the job you get out of college will more than likely define you much less than the job you get out of graduate school.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
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6/28/2013 11:08:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 11:04:15 AM, benevolent wrote:
Good job derailing 000ike's thread with you depressing old man bullsh*t Drafter

It's only depressing to entitled brats (not 000ike). It's life and it basically describes what I had to go through (though I didn't start out with a degree) and I didn't find it depressing at all. In fact, my early career experiences prepared me for where I am now, helped me get to where I am now, and make me appreciate all the more where I am now.
000ike
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6/28/2013 11:10:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 11:06:59 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 6/28/2013 11:02:47 AM, 000ike wrote:
At 6/28/2013 10:57:53 AM, drafterman wrote:
Here is the thing:

People don't get "high paying" jobs based off of advice they had to get on the internet. If you don't already, right now, have the experience, education, connections (people/organizations), and knowledge to get a high paying job, then the chances are, you aren't going to get one. Even if you see a position, they aren't going to hire you.

Let's say you are interviewed for a high paying job that meets your criteria. What do you have that is going to make a company choose you over people with Masters Degrees, decades of experience, references and connections?

I'm going into my senior year of high school and about to apply to a list of colleges. I'm trying to iron out my career path so I can decide which undergraduate and graduate schools I should target. So all I need is some career suggests that roughly meet those requirements either inherently or through a reasonable amount of time (5 years). Is that too much to ask?

Agree largely with drafterman here. I think you're on to something about working 4-5 years and then going on to graduate school. Begin networking the moment you get into college, and don't stop.

If you take this kind of approach, the job you get out of college will more than likely define you much less than the job you get out of graduate school.

That's not what I'm asking from you guys though. How about we take out the technicalities concerning hours and pay. I want to start working toward something I know I would like. Qualitatively speaking, what kind of careers inherently involve critical thinking, arguing, or problem-solving? Don't tell me what starting careers are like. Just what careers do you know of that have to do with that. thanks
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
benevolent
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6/28/2013 11:13:28 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 6/28/2013 11:08:28 AM, drafterman wrote:
At 6/28/2013 11:04:15 AM, benevolent wrote:
Good job derailing 000ike's thread with you depressing old man bullsh*t Drafter

It's only depressing to entitled brats (not 000ike). It's life and it basically describes what I had to go through (though I didn't start out with a degree) and I didn't find it depressing at all. In fact, my early career experiences prepared me for where I am now, helped me get to where I am now, and make me appreciate all the more where I am now.

More power to you then dude, and I don't think your advice is without merit either, but you kinda went on a barrage with it.