Total Posts:20|Showing Posts:1-20
Jump to topic:

Counting Cards

Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/6/2013 7:01:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Watching "21," it got me thinking about counting cards. Does anybody know if it is possible nowadays with all of the new technology? Does anybody actually make decent money off it? Has anybody here tried?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
YYW
Posts: 36,282
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/6/2013 7:08:07 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 7:01:28 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Watching "21," it got me thinking about counting cards. Does anybody know if it is possible nowadays with all of the new technology? Does anybody actually make decent money off it? Has anybody here tried?

I have never tried it, but the MIT Blackjack team did much more and better than those who only count cards. You should read Bringing Down the House by Ben Mezrich; the book which 21 is based on.
Tsar of DDO
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/6/2013 7:15:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 7:08:07 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:01:28 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Watching "21," it got me thinking about counting cards. Does anybody know if it is possible nowadays with all of the new technology? Does anybody actually make decent money off it? Has anybody here tried?

I have never tried it, but the MIT Blackjack team did much more and better than those who only count cards. You should read Bringing Down the House by Ben Mezrich; the book which 21 is based on.

I heard it's mostly just sensationalized stories with a lot of exaggeration.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
YYW
Posts: 36,282
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/6/2013 7:15:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 7:15:03 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:08:07 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:01:28 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Watching "21," it got me thinking about counting cards. Does anybody know if it is possible nowadays with all of the new technology? Does anybody actually make decent money off it? Has anybody here tried?

I have never tried it, but the MIT Blackjack team did much more and better than those who only count cards. You should read Bringing Down the House by Ben Mezrich; the book which 21 is based on.

I heard it's mostly just sensationalized stories with a lot of exaggeration.

The book or the movie?
Tsar of DDO
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/6/2013 7:37:35 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 7:15:28 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:15:03 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:08:07 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:01:28 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Watching "21," it got me thinking about counting cards. Does anybody know if it is possible nowadays with all of the new technology? Does anybody actually make decent money off it? Has anybody here tried?

I have never tried it, but the MIT Blackjack team did much more and better than those who only count cards. You should read Bringing Down the House by Ben Mezrich; the book which 21 is based on.

I heard it's mostly just sensationalized stories with a lot of exaggeration.

The book or the movie?

Both.

"Bringing Down the House: The Inside Story of Six MIT Students Who Took Vegas for Millions is a book by Ben Mezrich about a group of MIT card counters commonly known as the MIT Blackjack Team. While represented as non-fiction by Mezrich and Free Press, the book contains significant fictional elements. Many of the key events propelling the drama did not occur in real life; others were exaggerated greatly.[1] The book was adapted into the movie 21."
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
YYW
Posts: 36,282
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/6/2013 8:20:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 7:37:35 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:15:28 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:15:03 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:08:07 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:01:28 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Watching "21," it got me thinking about counting cards. Does anybody know if it is possible nowadays with all of the new technology? Does anybody actually make decent money off it? Has anybody here tried?

I have never tried it, but the MIT Blackjack team did much more and better than those who only count cards. You should read Bringing Down the House by Ben Mezrich; the book which 21 is based on.

I heard it's mostly just sensationalized stories with a lot of exaggeration.

The book or the movie?

Both.

"Bringing Down the House: The Inside Story of Six MIT Students Who Took Vegas for Millions is a book by Ben Mezrich about a group of MIT card counters commonly known as the MIT Blackjack Team. While represented as non-fiction by Mezrich and Free Press, the book contains significant fictional elements. Many of the key events propelling the drama did not occur in real life; others were exaggerated greatly.[1] The book was adapted into the movie 21."

Just read the book to pick up on the methodology, although the story is really great too (whether it's true or false). It's almost romantic.
Tsar of DDO
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/6/2013 8:33:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 8:20:02 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:37:35 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:15:28 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:15:03 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:08:07 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:01:28 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Watching "21," it got me thinking about counting cards. Does anybody know if it is possible nowadays with all of the new technology? Does anybody actually make decent money off it? Has anybody here tried?

I have never tried it, but the MIT Blackjack team did much more and better than those who only count cards. You should read Bringing Down the House by Ben Mezrich; the book which 21 is based on.

I heard it's mostly just sensationalized stories with a lot of exaggeration.

The book or the movie?

Both.

"Bringing Down the House: The Inside Story of Six MIT Students Who Took Vegas for Millions is a book by Ben Mezrich about a group of MIT card counters commonly known as the MIT Blackjack Team. While represented as non-fiction by Mezrich and Free Press, the book contains significant fictional elements. Many of the key events propelling the drama did not occur in real life; others were exaggerated greatly.[1] The book was adapted into the movie 21."

Just read the book to pick up on the methodology, although the story is really great too (whether it's true or false). It's almost romantic.

I heard that "Beat the Dealer" is a lot more methodology intensive.
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
YYW
Posts: 36,282
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/6/2013 8:34:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 8:33:37 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 7/6/2013 8:20:02 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:37:35 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:15:28 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:15:03 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:08:07 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:01:28 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Watching "21," it got me thinking about counting cards. Does anybody know if it is possible nowadays with all of the new technology? Does anybody actually make decent money off it? Has anybody here tried?

I have never tried it, but the MIT Blackjack team did much more and better than those who only count cards. You should read Bringing Down the House by Ben Mezrich; the book which 21 is based on.

I heard it's mostly just sensationalized stories with a lot of exaggeration.

The book or the movie?

Both.

"Bringing Down the House: The Inside Story of Six MIT Students Who Took Vegas for Millions is a book by Ben Mezrich about a group of MIT card counters commonly known as the MIT Blackjack Team. While represented as non-fiction by Mezrich and Free Press, the book contains significant fictional elements. Many of the key events propelling the drama did not occur in real life; others were exaggerated greatly.[1] The book was adapted into the movie 21."

Just read the book to pick up on the methodology, although the story is really great too (whether it's true or false). It's almost romantic.

I heard that "Beat the Dealer" is a lot more methodology intensive.

You might be right. I haven't read that, though.
Tsar of DDO
Lordknukle
Posts: 12,788
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/6/2013 8:34:42 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Anybody here who has actually tried it?
"Easy is the descent to Avernus, for the door to the Underworld lies upon both day and night. But to retrace your steps and return to the breezes above- that's the task, that's the toil."
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/7/2013 3:09:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 7:01:28 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Watching "21," it got me thinking about counting cards. Does anybody know if it is possible nowadays with all of the new technology? Does anybody actually make decent money off it? Has anybody here tried?

Are you talking about just counting cards or getting away with it in a casino? The former is pretty easy to learn but I'm sure the latter is pretty difficult without attracting attention.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/7/2013 3:29:58 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Just look up the Hi-Lo method. Single decks will come easily. After that just practice until you can do six to eight decks at once. After that its just about seeming casual and not changin yer betting patterns too quickly or aggressively.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/7/2013 3:38:59 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Here's an uber quick intro to it: http://casinogambling.about.com...
Just remember that knowing the true count of the deck doesn't automatically mean yer going to come out ahead. It's simply a way of figuring out when to bet big, when to stay with the minimum, and when the house edge is off.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/7/2013 7:43:01 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 7:14:22 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
It's always possible. Technology has nothing to do with it.

There's always the same 52 cards in a deck so it's always possible to count.

But there's usually a 6 deck shoe, so it's 312 cards you have to keep track of.

It can still be done, and since September of last year it isn't illegal, but the casinos frown on it big time, anybody with a good system that's making money would be nuts to talk about it.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Sidewalker
Posts: 3,713
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/7/2013 8:07:03 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 7:01:28 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Watching "21," it got me thinking about counting cards. Does anybody know if it is possible nowadays with all of the new technology? Does anybody actually make decent money off it? Has anybody here tried?

It's illegal with technology, but it can be done and if you are good at it you'll have a slight edge.
"It is one of the commonest of mistakes to consider that the limit of our power of perception is also the limit of all there is to perceive." " C. W. Leadbeater
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/7/2013 8:40:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/7/2013 7:43:01 PM, Sidewalker wrote:
At 7/6/2013 7:14:22 PM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
It's always possible. Technology has nothing to do with it.

There's always the same 52 cards in a deck so it's always possible to count.

But there's usually a 6 deck shoe, so it's 312 cards you have to keep track of.

You don't have to know what's been played. Just adjust the count with every card.

It can still be done, and since September of last year it isn't illegal, but the casinos frown on it big time, anybody with a good system that's making money would be nuts to talk about it.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/7/2013 10:16:21 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Card counting depends upon knowing information about what cards are left in the deck based upon what cards have been turned. It doesn't work any more because casinos now use six decks mixed and they shuffle before the cards are exhausted. That means that there is not enough info about what cards are left in the deck to gain a significant advantage.

Casinos keep picture books of people who they want to ban. If they suspect you are counting cards, whether you get a real advantage or not, you'll be banned.

Texas hold'em is a game well suited to people good at mental mathematics. Since the casino makes money no matter which player wins at poker, they don't care if you do mental calculations. There is a very good book "The Mathematics of Poker" by by Bill Chen and Jerrod Ankenman. As one amazon reviewer put it, "It is not for the timid, foggy headed, or undisciplined."
slo1
Posts: 4,320
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/8/2013 10:33:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/6/2013 7:01:28 PM, Lordknukle wrote:
Watching "21," it got me thinking about counting cards. Does anybody know if it is possible nowadays with all of the new technology? Does anybody actually make decent money off it? Has anybody here tried?

I tried to learn how to count. I didn't put enough effort as it was hard to do. Once one gets the hang of it, I'm sure it is effortless.

All it is, is that certain cards = 1, others = 0, and others = -1. You just keep a running tally and then when your running tally is at a certain point you bet big bets until the tally count comes back down when the odds are not in your favor.

The problem with it, is that the betting behavior of consistent large bets for bursts of time while going back to smaller bets is very observable, so while doing the counting in mind the betting behavior can't be hidden. Any casino that suspects it will toss you out in a flash.

You also have to play frequently, because while you have greater than 50% odds of winning, it is not much more than that and it takes time to amass a consistent winning. Despite counting, there will be periods of loss and person has to plan accordingly, as you loose everything then you have no money to bet with while waiting for probability to come back to your favor.

It is a lot like many things in life, you really put forth the time and effort and it probably will work out for you. Do it half-arsed and you can only loose.
drafterman
Posts: 18,870
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/8/2013 10:40:45 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
The return on "counting cards" over simply playing optimal black jack strategy probably no longer provides a good return on investment, especially since they can ban you for arbitrary reasons.
AlbinoBunny
Posts: 3,781
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
7/8/2013 10:51:06 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
You can do it, but casinos kick you out and possibly ban you if you do too well.
bladerunner060 | bsh1 , 2014! Presidency campaign!

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org... - Running for president.
http://www.debate.org... - Running as his vice president.

May the best man win!