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On Feigned Victimization

YYW
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7/21/2013 1:24:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
There is something uniquely enraging about feigned victimization that evokes at once the impression of entitlement and petulance which is perhaps among the strongest testaments to an individual's character and moral worth that can be proffered. By positioning ones self as a victim in any given context (which is not to be confused with being made a victim by another), by feigning persecution one's actions are purposed to evoke unmerited sympathy -which is both an affront to those who are truly victimized and an attempted exploitation of onlooker's who may not be privy to the facts of a given circumstance. It is a particularly insidious form of manipulation which evinces, especially when done before a community, the worst in a community by showing its lowest member to those who see through its bullsh!t, and revealing the most easily snowed by showing those who believe it against those who do not. A healthy community of morally adroit people do not tolerate it, a weak community tolerates or embraces, the weakest community protects it and chastises those who do not tolerate it.

If bullsh!t is that place beteween the truth and ignorance, the bullshitter is he whom exploits his listeners by capitalizing on those whom may be deceived in the absence of a familiarity with the context of the situation with which they are confronted. He who feigns victimization gambols on his audience's ignorance by manipulating their sympathies, ignoring relevant facts at hand and to the end of garnering support in defense of an "aggressor" labeled so only by the bullshitter's bullsh!t. The public spectacle is the vehicle by which self-victimization as such is manufactured. But it should not be said that he who pretends to be accosted is a liar, for where the liar takes measures to conceal the truth -the bullshitter, perhaps knowing or not knowing the truth, pays the truth no regard by acting without regard for it.

When self-victimization as such, manufactured bullsh!t as it is, is not met with retribution, those who are truly victims become indistinguishable from those who are mere charlatans of their own suffering. Indifference, then, cannot be the only response to feigned victimization, and it therefore must be stamped out, purged from the community that it may not continue, that it may in no form be tolerated, that it may not be given license to continue. The feigner of victimization must be dealt with swiftly and severely, and the community and the context in which bullsh!t as such must be shown what occurred and why -that they may know that pretending to be harmed is unacceptable.

Worse yet is the one who feigns victimization in response to the very actions he inflicts upon others -and in that moment, the charlatan of his own suffering acquires the additional label of hypocrite, and only amplifies the extent to which he harms the community as a whole by bastardizes reality by exploiting onlooker's potential ignorance of context. Those persons, especially, are neither members of a community nor are they due protection by a community's standards or policies -they are due only the swiftest and severest retribution to the extent necessary. Those who see through bullsh!t as such have a duty to expose it, accordingly.

That is all.
Tsar of DDO
ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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7/21/2013 1:37:53 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Too long, did not read.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
YYW
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7/21/2013 3:31:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/21/2013 1:37:53 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
Too long, did not read.

So how long is too long for you to read something?
Tsar of DDO
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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7/21/2013 3:57:36 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
tl;dr.

reading = effort
rant = no value
effort + no value = waste

And simply because you're so predictably opinionated YYW that I don't need to read what you've written to sum up your points: something on the order of dismissing an opposing perspective, assuming dishonesty where there isn't, and complete inability to understand what it is that leads people to receive things as they do and react as they do. Same garbage every time.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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7/21/2013 3:59:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/21/2013 3:57:36 PM, 000ike wrote:
tl;dr.

reading = effort
rant = no value
effort + no value = waste

And simply because you're so predictably opinionated YYW that I don't need to read what you've written to sum up your points: something on the order of dismissing an opposing perspective, assuming dishonesty where there isn't, and complete inability to understand what it is that leads people to receive things as they do and react as they do. Same garbage every time.

Can we actually maybe TRY and act mature for once? Honestly, I'm getting real fvcking tired of watching you two b1tch and moan at each other for no apparent reason. Honestly, start acting like the intelligent human being you are.
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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7/21/2013 4:04:06 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/21/2013 4:02:16 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
lol Who was your inspiration for this?...

wrichcirw. YYW has whiny-vindictive complex.
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
000ike
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7/21/2013 4:05:50 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/21/2013 3:59:57 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 7/21/2013 3:57:36 PM, 000ike wrote:
tl;dr.

reading = effort
rant = no value
effort + no value = waste

And simply because you're so predictably opinionated YYW that I don't need to read what you've written to sum up your points: something on the order of dismissing an opposing perspective, assuming dishonesty where there isn't, and complete inability to understand what it is that leads people to receive things as they do and react as they do. Same garbage every time.

Can we actually maybe TRY and act mature for once? Honestly, I'm getting real fvcking tired of watching you two b1tch and moan at each other for no apparent reason. Honestly, start acting like the intelligent human being you are.

Okay fine. I'll try my best to not troll him, even though he makes it just too easy. Starting today
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
Eitan_Zohar
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7/21/2013 5:46:45 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I'm guessing you were thinking about the Palestinians, who are banned from working in multiple Arab countries and were expelled from Kuwait en masse but choose only to blame the Jews?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
imabench
Posts: 21,210
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7/21/2013 5:51:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/21/2013 3:31:54 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/21/2013 1:37:53 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
Too long, did not read.

So how long is too long for you to read something?

I got to the second paragraph before my brain just quit on me.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

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http://www.debate.org...

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ClassicRobert
Posts: 2,487
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7/21/2013 5:58:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/21/2013 5:51:11 PM, imabench wrote:
At 7/21/2013 3:31:54 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/21/2013 1:37:53 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
Too long, did not read.

So how long is too long for you to read something?

I got to the second paragraph before my brain just quit on me.

For me it depends on the medium. With books, I pretty much don't care how long they are. With debates (at least on DDO) I don't care how long it is, as long as its a good topic. With articles, If I have to scroll more than once, I start getting bored. With forum posts, I can usually make it one or two paragraphs before losing focus. And that is why I will never make it through a Charleslb post.
Debate me: Economic decision theory should be adjusted to include higher-order preferences for non-normative purposes http://www.debate.org...

Do you really believe that? Or not? If you believe it, you should man up and defend it in a debate. -RoyLatham

My Pet Fish is such a Douche- NiamC

It's an app to meet friends and stuff, sort of like an adult club penguin- Thett3, describing Tinder
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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7/21/2013 6:07:54 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/21/2013 5:46:45 PM, Eitan_Zohar wrote:
I'm guessing you were thinking about the Palestinians, who are banned from working in multiple Arab countries and were expelled from Kuwait en masse but choose only to blame the Jews?

LOL you know where I stand on the Palestine-Israel situation.
Tsar of DDO
Sargon
Posts: 524
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7/21/2013 6:21:41 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
We all know that feigned victimization is bad. Why did you need five hundred and forty seven words to say it?
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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7/21/2013 7:28:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/21/2013 6:21:41 PM, Sargon wrote:
We all know that feigned victimization is bad. Why did you need five hundred and forty seven words to say it?

Presumably drunk.
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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7/21/2013 7:51:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/21/2013 4:04:06 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 7/21/2013 4:02:16 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
lol Who was your inspiration for this?...

wrichcirw. YYW has whiny-vindictive complex.

LOL. This is almost flattering.

The only victim here is YYW. He's a victim of his own...whatever complex he possesses that causes him to act so inappropriately almost on a whim.

At 7/21/2013 3:59:57 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:

Can we actually maybe TRY and act mature for once? Honestly, I'm getting real fvcking tired of watching you two b1tch and moan at each other for no apparent reason. Honestly, start acting like the intelligent human being you are.

Are you seriously telling me that this OP is not b1tching and moaning? LOL
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Enji
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7/21/2013 8:13:38 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/21/2013 7:51:48 PM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 7/21/2013 3:59:57 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:

Can we actually maybe TRY and act mature for once? Honestly, I'm getting real fvcking tired of watching you two b1tch and moan at each other for no apparent reason. Honestly, start acting like the intelligent human being you are.

Are you seriously telling me that this OP is not b1tching and moaning? LOL

Pretty sure that's exactly what he's saying. Pretty sure he's also saying stop it.
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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7/21/2013 8:13:55 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/21/2013 6:21:41 PM, Sargon wrote:
We all know that feigned victimization is bad. Why did you need five hundred and forty seven words to say it?

Because it is an affront to the integrity of this site, and a behavior which ranks among the most insidiously vile and disgusting that can take place in an online community.
Tsar of DDO
Sargon
Posts: 524
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7/21/2013 8:15:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/21/2013 8:13:55 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/21/2013 6:21:41 PM, Sargon wrote:
We all know that feigned victimization is bad. Why did you need five hundred and forty seven words to say it?

Because it is an affront to the integrity of this site, and a behavior which ranks among the most insidiously vile and disgusting that can take place in an online community.

Yes, and everyone knows this. Why write a pretentious essay on an obvious point? What's next? 'On the existence of square circles'?
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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7/21/2013 8:58:49 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/21/2013 8:15:24 PM, Sargon wrote:
At 7/21/2013 8:13:55 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/21/2013 6:21:41 PM, Sargon wrote:
We all know that feigned victimization is bad. Why did you need five hundred and forty seven words to say it?

Because it is an affront to the integrity of this site, and a behavior which ranks among the most insidiously vile and disgusting that can take place in an online community.

Yes, and everyone knows this. Why write a pretentious essay on an obvious point? What's next? 'On the existence of square circles'?

Have you ever seen a square circle?
Tsar of DDO
Sargon
Posts: 524
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7/21/2013 9:08:47 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/21/2013 8:58:49 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/21/2013 8:15:24 PM, Sargon wrote:
At 7/21/2013 8:13:55 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/21/2013 6:21:41 PM, Sargon wrote:
We all know that feigned victimization is bad. Why did you need five hundred and forty seven words to say it?

Because it is an affront to the integrity of this site, and a behavior which ranks among the most insidiously vile and disgusting that can take place in an online community.

Yes, and everyone knows this. Why write a pretentious essay on an obvious point? What's next? 'On the existence of square circles'?

Have you ever seen a square circle?

Have you ever seen anyone say 'Feigning victimization on DDO is good?'. The answer to both questions is no. So why this OP?
DakotaKrafick
Posts: 1,517
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7/22/2013 1:44:44 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/21/2013 3:57:36 PM, 000ike wrote:
tl;dr.

reading = effort
rant = no value
effort + no value = waste

And simply because you're so predictably opinionated YYW that I don't need to read what you've written to sum up your points: something on the order of dismissing an opposing perspective, assuming dishonesty where there isn't, and complete inability to understand what it is that leads people to receive things as they do and react as they do. Same garbage every time.

I believe you are an intelligent person, ike. Because you are intelligent, I don't think you actually would do what you said you did: respond to what YYW said without reading it, even if you did think it was predictable. Why not? Because there is a chance, however small you might have thought it is, that YYW said something you did not expect. Then you would look like a fool, first saying how predictable YYW is and then responding to something you falsely predicted, something he did not really say. That's a risk too easily avoided to not do so.

Further, I'm sure you could have known someone like myself would realize this, yet you still claimed to skip reading what YYW said. This seems paradoxically contradictory to my first statement here: that I believe you are an intelligent person. Not that I'm saying you are, in fact, not intelligent, only that I'm stuck in a paradox and see no way out. What do you suggest, ike?
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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7/22/2013 6:25:18 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/21/2013 9:08:47 PM, Sargon wrote:
At 7/21/2013 8:58:49 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/21/2013 8:15:24 PM, Sargon wrote:
At 7/21/2013 8:13:55 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/21/2013 6:21:41 PM, Sargon wrote:
We all know that feigned victimization is bad. Why did you need five hundred and forty seven words to say it?

Because it is an affront to the integrity of this site, and a behavior which ranks among the most insidiously vile and disgusting that can take place in an online community.

Yes, and everyone knows this. Why write a pretentious essay on an obvious point? What's next? 'On the existence of square circles'?

Have you ever seen a square circle?

Have you ever seen anyone say 'Feigning victimization on DDO is good?'.

I have never heard anyone say it was good, but I have seen it take place in the forums and it can not go on.

The answer to both questions is no.

And yet it happens, in this community, with impunity.

So why this OP?

Because ignoring imminent problems within a community amounts to a moral cowardice that is absolutely unacceptable.
Tsar of DDO
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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7/22/2013 11:28:59 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't think it's uniquely enraging. Everyone hustles--the businessperson who asks after a superior's family and behaves deferentially to curry favor; the husband who tells his wife that no, she does not look fat in those jeans; the parent who praises a child for a disfigured rendering of a firetruck; the journalist who cares more about putting together a good story than the people involved in it; even something as trivial as putting on nice clothes to make a good impression in an interview. Our prefrontal cortex, one function of which is the regulation of inhibition and speech, is what enables us to socialize peacefully. If we were unceasingly open and forthright, our uncensored stream of thought would promise us few friends. Imagine meeting a really attractive person for the first time, and letting it slip that you'd love to do things to them so dirty they're illegal in the 48 contiguous states (and Puerto Rico).

I think you're upset primarily because recent incidents are so local and so salient that they've narrowed your field of vision. If you really want to place severe penalties on being manipulative, I think the site will be cleared of membership within 24 hours. What you describe is on the level of social protocol--at this level, you either have to play the game better than the other person or know when the best move is not to play. I think it's a mistake to equate indifference to cowardice, particularly when it is used as a tool of attrition. It is not without reason that a troll is often defeated by others' refusal to engage him. I have dealt in the past with plenty of the sorts of cases to which you allude: WriterDave, rogue, lovelife, INH are a few I remember best. In many of these I was far more militant, as you seem now to be, about drawing attention to what was going on. I found this both unfruitful and considerably taxing. I've since learned that a more favorable approach, as far as I'm concerned, is to refuse to waste time or resources participating in conflicts like those spawned from DanT's threads. I have a rule about picking your battles--your time and energy are not infinite, and treating them otherwise cannot end well. There are disagreements not worth pursuing, among which I count the majority of cases of feigned victimization.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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7/22/2013 11:35:17 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't know anything about feigned victimization - that's too many big words for me. But I do know that YYW shopped for my opinion on wrich in PM seeing that I got testy with him one time, and I think that stands to me being really smart. Again, dunno about the victimization bit.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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7/22/2013 12:00:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/22/2013 6:25:18 AM, YYW wrote:
At 7/21/2013 9:08:47 PM, Sargon wrote:
At 7/21/2013 8:58:49 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/21/2013 8:15:24 PM, Sargon wrote:
At 7/21/2013 8:13:55 PM, YYW wrote:
At 7/21/2013 6:21:41 PM, Sargon wrote:
We all know that feigned victimization is bad. Why did you need five hundred and forty seven words to say it?

Because it is an affront to the integrity of this site, and a behavior which ranks among the most insidiously vile and disgusting that can take place in an online community.

Yes, and everyone knows this. Why write a pretentious essay on an obvious point? What's next? 'On the existence of square circles'?

Have you ever seen a square circle?

Have you ever seen anyone say 'Feigning victimization on DDO is good?'.

I have never heard anyone say it was good, but I have seen it take place in the forums and it can not go on.

The answer to both questions is no.

And yet it happens, in this community, with impunity.

So why this OP?

Because ignoring imminent problems within a community amounts to a moral cowardice that is absolutely unacceptable.

Well, this is obviously meant to be a veiled attack against me, which IMHO is supremely cowardly, but I will address it anyway.

If a bank is robbed, the bank is a victim, regardless of whether or not the robbery materially affects the bank. It may not affect the bank, but the bank would still be fully justified to pursue and, if evidence corroborates, win a federal felony case against the robber. It is less the material harm that is the issue and more the inappropriate conduct inherent in robbing a bank.

Is this feigned victimization? No, but it is an adequate characterization of YYW's actions in the thread that prompted him to post this ridiculously skewed, inappropriate, and inflammatory OP.

In this specific thread "On Feigned Victimization", I maintain YYW is the only victim here, a victim of whatever complex continually compels him to engage in inappropriate behavior, for which he has been repeatedly called out and chastised.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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7/22/2013 12:06:46 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/22/2013 11:28:59 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
I don't think it's uniquely enraging. Everyone hustles--the businessperson who asks after a superior's family and behaves deferentially to curry favor; the husband who tells his wife that no, she does not look fat in those jeans; the parent who praises a child for a disfigured rendering of a firetruck; the journalist who cares more about putting together a good story than the people involved in it; even something as trivial as putting on nice clothes to make a good impression in an interview. Our prefrontal cortex, one function of which is the regulation of inhibition and speech, is what enables us to socialize peacefully. If we were unceasingly open and forthright, our uncensored stream of thought would promise us few friends. Imagine meeting a really attractive person for the first time, and letting it slip that you'd love to do things to them so dirty they're illegal in the 48 contiguous states (and Puerto Rico).

I think you're upset primarily because recent incidents are so local and so salient that they've narrowed your field of vision. If you really want to place severe penalties on being manipulative, I think the site will be cleared of membership within 24 hours. What you describe is on the level of social protocol--at this level, you either have to play the game better than the other person or know when the best move is not to play. I think it's a mistake to equate indifference to cowardice, particularly when it is used as a tool of attrition. It is not without reason that a troll is often defeated by others' refusal to engage him. I have dealt in the past with plenty of the sorts of cases to which you allude: WriterDave, rogue, lovelife, INH are a few I remember best. In many of these I was far more militant, as you seem now to be, about drawing attention to what was going on. I found this both unfruitful and considerably taxing. I've since learned that a more favorable approach, as far as I'm concerned, is to refuse to waste time or resources participating in conflicts like those spawned from DanT's threads. I have a rule about picking your battles--your time and energy are not infinite, and treating them otherwise cannot end well. There are disagreements not worth pursuing, among which I count the majority of cases of feigned victimization.

This is an extremely cogent and relevant analysis of the matter at hand. Thank you Cody.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Magic8000
Posts: 975
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7/22/2013 2:10:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/21/2013 1:37:53 PM, ClassicRobert wrote:
Too long, did not read.
404 coherent debate topic not found. Please restart the debate with clear resolution.

"So Magic8000 believes Einstein was a proctologist who was persuaded by the Government and Hitler to fabricate the Theory of Relativity"- GWL-CPA
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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7/22/2013 7:15:40 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 7/22/2013 11:28:59 AM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
I don't think it's uniquely enraging. Everyone hustles--the businessperson who asks after a superior's family and behaves deferentially to curry favor; the husband who tells his wife that no, she does not look fat in those jeans; the parent who praises a child for a disfigured rendering of a firetruck; the journalist who cares more about putting together a good story than the people involved in it; even something as trivial as putting on nice clothes to make a good impression in an interview. Our prefrontal cortex, one function of which is the regulation of inhibition and speech, is what enables us to socialize peacefully. If we were unceasingly open and forthright, our uncensored stream of thought would promise us few friends. Imagine meeting a really attractive person for the first time, and letting it slip that you'd love to do things to them so dirty they're illegal in the 48 contiguous states (and Puerto Rico).

I think you're upset primarily because recent incidents are so local and so salient that they've narrowed your field of vision. If you really want to place severe penalties on being manipulative, I think the site will be cleared of membership within 24 hours. What you describe is on the level of social protocol--at this level, you either have to play the game better than the other person or know when the best move is not to play. I think it's a mistake to equate indifference to cowardice, particularly when it is used as a tool of attrition. It is not without reason that a troll is often defeated by others' refusal to engage him. I have dealt in the past with plenty of the sorts of cases to which you allude: WriterDave, rogue, lovelife, INH are a few I remember best. In many of these I was far more militant, as you seem now to be, about drawing attention to what was going on. I found this both unfruitful and considerably taxing. I've since learned that a more favorable approach, as far as I'm concerned, is to refuse to waste time or resources participating in conflicts like those spawned from DanT's threads. I have a rule about picking your battles--your time and energy are not infinite, and treating them otherwise cannot end well. There are disagreements not worth pursuing, among which I count the majority of cases of feigned victimization.

My issue is when I am obliged to leave such a person alone. There is nothing I would like more than to deal the same fate to this individual that I have to Heineken, Qopel, Gilliendos, and the lot of others whom have had cause to go after. But even still, your point about time and resources is well taken.
Tsar of DDO