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Some thoughts on bullsh!t

YYW
Posts: 36,271
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8/10/2013 5:23:10 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
It is the case that all human choices are indicative of the character of those who make them, but all choices must be understood in context; and seeing what a person chose to do is as important as knowing what they chose not to do.

I've said before that the way people post on DDO yields a tremendous degree of insight into who they are, and I'll say it again here. To understand what that means requires only that we pay attention. It is important to pay attention and make assessments because doing so is the only way that we can determine whom we benefit from interacting with and who we do not, whose words/thoughts/perspectives matter and whose do not and whom we would want to make a part of our lives by interacting with them. But, I want to make one thing very clear: it is vital that we get our judgements of others right. It should be obvious that this applies just as much to life as it does to DDO.

Bullsh!t is what occupies the space between the opportunity to speak and a lack of competency on the subject of which a person speaks up. That is not to say that someone who bullsh!ts will bullsh!t every time they post, but rather to say that someone who bullsh!ts is likely to do it again, and that should not be tolerated. What it means to bullsh!t is simple: it is in the moment that a person bullsh!ts, at once they disregard any notion of veracity and so to the end of appearing to possess competency which they do not. Still yet, there is a fine line between bullsh!t that is intended and not intended.

When a person believes what they say to be true, but speaks in error, facts are relegated to a position of indefinite precarity and speakers become themselves the subject of discussion rather than the topic which they aspire to discuss because bullsh!t (that which results from incompetent opining) and accuracy/truth/veracity are by definition mutually exclusive. The reason, though, that speakers become subjects themselves rather than the subjects that speakers appear to be speaking on is because bullsh!t cannot be distinguished from fact where an audience does not possess the baseline competency to distinguish truth from non-truth.

Bullsh!t may or may not be logically coherent, but it often takes the form of speakers accusing the other of logical fallacy/ad hom. attacks. This is so because by pointing out (correctly or otherwise) that an argument is flawed or that a speaker is making a personal attack is not sufficient, that is, it is not enough to refute an argument. The flawed premise must be addressed and actually rebutted, rather than merely described as flawed for rebuttal to have significance, or to even be properly considered as a rebuttal.

And so, to rebuke bullsh!t -especially given an environment which is conducive to a seemingly infinite series of opportunities to bullsh!t- must be the necessary task of all who aspire to maintain communal integrity, and the "worthwhileness" of DDO. It is nothing less than a moral responsibility to not only not bullsh!t, but to weed out bullsh!t wherever it exists, in whatever way succeeds, because bullsh!t met with impunity -or worse, bullsh!t that is protected and sanctioned- is to a community like ours what cancer is to an organism. Those who bullsh!t must be given either the choice to reform, or they must be run off -and the distinction between facts and bullsh!t must be made correctly lest the community itself become incorrigibly tolerant of that which destroys it. Those who pretend to be victims, who hide behind rules and who manipulate policy to substantiate their proclivity to bullsh!t must, similarly, be made to leave.

Bullsh!t frustrates, infuriates and insidiously corrodes truth and reason wherever it exists. Attempting to reason with someone who bullsh!ts is unproductive, because as bullsh!tters they demonstrate no regard for the veracity of facts but are rather concerned only with their own insidious desire to appear to be what they are not; to feign competency. Competency, it should be no surprise, is the anthesis of bullsh!t and he who is competent is always and forever the enemy of the bullsh!tter because bullsh!t met with competency cannot stand -but only if bullsh!t is first called for what it is, by its name, and shown to be bullsh!t as such.
Tsar of DDO
000ike
Posts: 11,196
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8/10/2013 5:51:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 5:49:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

We know.

It's his catharsis. Just let it be
"A stupid despot may constrain his slaves with iron chains; but a true politician binds them even more strongly with the chain of their own ideas" - Michel Foucault
YYW
Posts: 36,271
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8/10/2013 9:39:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I wonder how many people read what I write. About the only way I can actually get a solid idea -at least on DDO- is by seeing who either comments, or those who use words I use regularly in their own patterns of speech. But the speech patterns are what I most like to see, because it tells me that not only did someone passively read what I wrote, but that it sunk in enough to impact the way they communicate in the forums. Although, I make room for the possibility that my dopamine levels are just higher than they should be... that is certainly a possibility.
Tsar of DDO
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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8/10/2013 10:40:57 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 5:51:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/10/2013 5:49:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

We know.

It's his catharsis. Just let it be

This, and he likes the attention that he gets when people react negatively to his obnoxious and insulting behavior. He's basically on a constant ego trip for whatever unjustified reason.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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8/10/2013 10:46:18 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 10:40:57 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 8/10/2013 5:51:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/10/2013 5:49:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

We know.

It's his catharsis. Just let it be

This, and he likes the attention that he gets when people react negatively to his obnoxious and insulting behavior. He's basically on a constant ego trip for whatever unjustified reason.

What obnoxious and insulting behavior is that?
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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8/10/2013 10:51:28 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 10:46:18 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/10/2013 10:40:57 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 8/10/2013 5:51:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/10/2013 5:49:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

We know.

It's his catharsis. Just let it be

This, and he likes the attention that he gets when people react negatively to his obnoxious and insulting behavior. He's basically on a constant ego trip for whatever unjustified reason.

What obnoxious and insulting behavior is that?

He likes to "psychoanalyze" people and degrade them by specifically preying on their insecurities. I've seen him do this to multiple people. It's very disgusting and smacks of psychopathy. I am honestly glad that I will never have the misfortune of meeting him-he's a very dangerous person.
DetectableNinja
Posts: 6,043
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8/10/2013 10:52:44 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 10:51:28 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 8/10/2013 10:46:18 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/10/2013 10:40:57 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 8/10/2013 5:51:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/10/2013 5:49:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

We know.

It's his catharsis. Just let it be

This, and he likes the attention that he gets when people react negatively to his obnoxious and insulting behavior. He's basically on a constant ego trip for whatever unjustified reason.

What obnoxious and insulting behavior is that?

He likes to "psychoanalyze" people and degrade them by specifically preying on their insecurities. I've seen him do this to multiple people. It's very disgusting and smacks of psychopathy. I am honestly glad that I will never have the misfortune of meeting him-he's a very dangerous person.

Do you know of any specific instances?
Think'st thou heaven is such a glorious thing?
I tell thee, 'tis not half so fair as thou
Or any man that breathes on earth.

- Christopher Marlowe, Doctor Faustus
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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8/10/2013 10:53:17 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 10:52:44 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/10/2013 10:51:28 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 8/10/2013 10:46:18 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/10/2013 10:40:57 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 8/10/2013 5:51:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/10/2013 5:49:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

We know.

It's his catharsis. Just let it be

This, and he likes the attention that he gets when people react negatively to his obnoxious and insulting behavior. He's basically on a constant ego trip for whatever unjustified reason.

What obnoxious and insulting behavior is that?

He likes to "psychoanalyze" people and degrade them by specifically preying on their insecurities. I've seen him do this to multiple people. It's very disgusting and smacks of psychopathy. I am honestly glad that I will never have the misfortune of meeting him-he's a very dangerous person.

Do you know of any specific instances?

Qopel and GWL-CPA. He actually drove Qopel off the site like this.
YYW
Posts: 36,271
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8/10/2013 11:02:02 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 10:46:18 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/10/2013 10:40:57 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 8/10/2013 5:51:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/10/2013 5:49:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

We know.

It's his catharsis. Just let it be

This, and he likes the attention that he gets when people react negatively to his obnoxious and insulting behavior. He's basically on a constant ego trip for whatever unjustified reason.

What obnoxious and insulting behavior is that?

She would be referring to the post above, and her general impression of me, perhaps because of both the post, as well as her general impression of me, which is fairly unfavorable as best I can ascertain. But, to be regarded with favor, or to be disregarded as such, by a person who does not understand what merits favor or who is serially incapable of ascertaining the moral/ethical stakes of forum behavior is inconsequential. Inconsequential, not because it is necessarily right or wrong, but inconsequential because whether right or wrong, it is grounded on either nothing or a fundamental misunderstanding held with a most unfortunate conviction (a conviction because it is strongly believed, and unfortunate because it is in error).
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,271
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8/10/2013 11:02:51 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 10:53:17 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 8/10/2013 10:52:44 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/10/2013 10:51:28 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 8/10/2013 10:46:18 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/10/2013 10:40:57 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 8/10/2013 5:51:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/10/2013 5:49:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

We know.

It's his catharsis. Just let it be

This, and he likes the attention that he gets when people react negatively to his obnoxious and insulting behavior. He's basically on a constant ego trip for whatever unjustified reason.

What obnoxious and insulting behavior is that?

He likes to "psychoanalyze" people and degrade them by specifically preying on their insecurities. I've seen him do this to multiple people. It's very disgusting and smacks of psychopathy. I am honestly glad that I will never have the misfortune of meeting him-he's a very dangerous person.

Do you know of any specific instances?

Qopel and GWL-CPA. He actually drove Qopel off the site like this.

Don't forget Heineken and Gilleindos.
Tsar of DDO
Eitan_Zohar
Posts: 2,697
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8/10/2013 11:03:11 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 10:51:28 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 8/10/2013 10:46:18 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/10/2013 10:40:57 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 8/10/2013 5:51:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/10/2013 5:49:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

We know.

It's his catharsis. Just let it be

This, and he likes the attention that he gets when people react negatively to his obnoxious and insulting behavior. He's basically on a constant ego trip for whatever unjustified reason.

What obnoxious and insulting behavior is that?

He likes to "psychoanalyze" people and degrade them by specifically preying on their insecurities. I've seen him do this to multiple people. It's very disgusting and smacks of psychopathy. I am honestly glad that I will never have the misfortune of meeting him-he's a very dangerous person.

Ah, I see. And you're in a position a criticize, Mrs.-Jews-control-the-government?
"It is my ambition to say in ten sentences what others say in a whole book."
royalpaladin
Posts: 22,357
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8/10/2013 11:05:09 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 11:02:51 PM, YYW wrote:
At 8/10/2013 10:53:17 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 8/10/2013 10:52:44 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/10/2013 10:51:28 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 8/10/2013 10:46:18 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/10/2013 10:40:57 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 8/10/2013 5:51:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/10/2013 5:49:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

We know.

It's his catharsis. Just let it be

This, and he likes the attention that he gets when people react negatively to his obnoxious and insulting behavior. He's basically on a constant ego trip for whatever unjustified reason.

What obnoxious and insulting behavior is that?

He likes to "psychoanalyze" people and degrade them by specifically preying on their insecurities. I've seen him do this to multiple people. It's very disgusting and smacks of psychopathy. I am honestly glad that I will never have the misfortune of meeting him-he's a very dangerous person.

Do you know of any specific instances?

Qopel and GWL-CPA. He actually drove Qopel off the site like this.

Don't forget Heineken and Gilleindos.

and me. You called me socially awkward.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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8/10/2013 11:11:32 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
I don't think bullshit always necessarily occupies the gap between speaking and competence to speak--in Frankfurt's seminal work on bullshit, he suggests that what makes a bullshitter unique is their desire to be persuasive irrespective of the truth. This implies that a bullshitter may or may not know what's actually the case, but that, regardless, they aim only to persuade. If this is true--and I would argue it is, since knowing and not caring about the truth is sufficiently different from lying insofar as liars want deliberately to lead people away from the truth--I think it's a mistake to say that bullshit consists only in feigning competence. Indeed, to the extent that we accept Frankfurt's conception (which I find compelling), a condemnation of bullshit is simultaneously a condemnation of devil's advocacy, with which condemnation few on this site--or anywhere else--are likely to agree.

You may rightly respond that, even if my idea of bullshit is philosophically accurate, it is the referent, and not the term, with which you take issue. Suppose I accept this--I still take some issue with your condemnation of those who speak beyond the range of their competence. I wonder whether it is really so sinful to I do not deny that it is a considerable error in judgment to behave this way, but I am far less sure that the appropriate response is ostracization or expulsion. I suspect it is a question of patience and diligence: whereas your inclination seems to be to shun or eject those you perceive as bullshitters (correct me if I'm mistaken), I try desperately to see and cultivate the potential in people. If you take a moment to try to think like someone in the position of a bullshitter, you may find that a not-inconsiderable percentage of your thoughts revolve around saving face or appearing intelligent. There is some criticism to be levied against their pretension, but I think it's clearly unhelpful, particularly to those individuals, to pair accusation and expulsion against them. There is a koan I've posted before of which I am again reminded. I hope you find it comparably useful:

When Bankei held his seclusion-weeks of meditation, pupils from many parts of Japan came to attend. During one of these gatherings a pupil was caught stealing. The matter was reported to Bankei with the request that the culprit be expelled. Bankei ignored the case.

Later the pupil was caught in a similar act, and again Bankei disregarded the matter. this angered the other pupils, who drew up a petition asking for the dismissal of the thief, stating that otherwise they would leave in a body.

When Bankei had read the petition he called everyone before him. "You are wise brothers," he told them. "You know what is right and what is not right. You may somewhere else to study if you wish, but this poor brother does not even know right from wrong. Who will teach him if I do not? I am going to keep him here even if all the rest of you leave."

A torrent of tears cleansed the face of the brother who had stolen. All desire to steal had vanished.


If you don't confront bullshitters--congenially--about their behavior, or offer them guidance in becoming intellectually honest, who will? When confronted by someone who acts like this, you have the option either to sequester yourself within a community of the like-minded or to confront and deal with what's different. In discourses concerning law, punishment, and rehabilitation, rarely, if ever, are forgiveness or redemption discussed. What worries me is the prioritization of condemnation over redemption--indeed, if ever we decree that there exists someone beyond the possibility of redemption, particularly in so minor a context as bullshitting, we commit the cynic's error of acquiescing to negativity. This negativity not only dooms beyond repair the object of condemnation, but also that person who hands down the judgment. Look--beyond all the DDO shittiness and egotism, we both know you're a smart guy. If really you're that smart, you should know, better than I, that your frustration and anxiety over this whole thing will prove both fruitless and substantially emotionally taxing. I mean, really--there's no way thinking about this stuff could ever leave you happier, and even particular resolutions of the problems you describe are unlikely, in this context, to do more than remove the burden of unease. If, as I experience, there is the potential both for resolution and for peace where these issues are concerned, I would advise without hesitation that you grasp it. Frankly, I don't think you deserve to be so unhappy over anything, and I think you'd be very well-served observing the practices whose benefits I've painstakingly discovered.
YYW
Posts: 36,271
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8/10/2013 11:20:37 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 11:05:09 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 8/10/2013 11:02:51 PM, YYW wrote:
At 8/10/2013 10:53:17 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 8/10/2013 10:52:44 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/10/2013 10:51:28 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 8/10/2013 10:46:18 PM, DetectableNinja wrote:
At 8/10/2013 10:40:57 PM, royalpaladin wrote:
At 8/10/2013 5:51:51 PM, 000ike wrote:
At 8/10/2013 5:49:42 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

We know.

It's his catharsis. Just let it be

This, and he likes the attention that he gets when people react negatively to his obnoxious and insulting behavior. He's basically on a constant ego trip for whatever unjustified reason.

What obnoxious and insulting behavior is that?

He likes to "psychoanalyze" people and degrade them by specifically preying on their insecurities. I've seen him do this to multiple people. It's very disgusting and smacks of psychopathy. I am honestly glad that I will never have the misfortune of meeting him-he's a very dangerous person.

Do you know of any specific instances?

Qopel and GWL-CPA. He actually drove Qopel off the site like this.

Don't forget Heineken and Gilleindos.

and me. You called me socially awkward.

I never ran you off the site, or wanted to. I actually don't mind you being here, generally. There are instances where you irritate me -but I don't think you intend to or, even if you do, you do maliciously. The people you listed, and the ones you forgot, however, are distinct. There is no doubt that I am very good at using what I can deduce about people to drive them off the site, but there is equally no doubt that if I do that, it is not arbitrarily.

There were specific reasons for why Qopel, GWL-CPA, Heineken, Qopel and a few others (some of whom have reformed, so I won't bring them up) became subjects of inquiry for me: (1) their behavior is both malicious and caused specific harms to the forum and to the DDO community, (2) their behavior was such that their ongoing presence on the site would have caused substantial damage to the forum if they continued as such, (3) the member in question deserves to be met with someone who can face them. Heineken, Qopel and GWL-CPA all overtly bullied, harassed, targeted, etc. members who were substantially younger than them -and I have no tolerance for that. But the propensity to cast any of these lot as victims is, on its face, disconcerting.

I make room, though, for the possibility that with two members above I went over the line -but the fact remains that I only continue as long as another person gives me material to work with. Heineken went on for ages, and so did both Qopel and GWL-CPA, both attacking me (which is not really relevant) and attacking other members. For what it's worth, if some creepy old man was stalking you in the forums, Royal, I'd go after him too -not because I like or dislike you, but because I believe that people like that deserve a dose of something stronger. That to say this, I would not explore the nuances of a person who was undeserving.

It's not the first time, though, that I've been likened to a psychopath. I had a person tell me in my junior undergraduate year that were I not so morals/ethics/etc. obsessed, I would likely be a fairly evil person. If we were to meet, though, I doubt we'd talk for long -and both of us, more or less, would probably be alright with that.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,271
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8/10/2013 11:38:29 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Cody, I think that in many cases, where a member's bullsh!t is really no more than the result of some wishful interest in a topic in tandem with a generalized lack of foundational knowledge, then it could be corrected. I think that in this case -not all, but specifically with this- that I am not in a real position to teach, because only those who wish to be taught are teachable -though it should go without saying that that approach is what I tried first, because that is what is right to be done first. Only because I was not successful in making appeals through reason do I post this, now, in what very well may appear to be a lamentable tone.

I will say, on a slightly related but relatively divergent note, that my balance between DDO/life was out of proportion for a while. But now, I've got a job and I'm doing some other stuff on the side so DDO get's considerably less time than it once did. I'm not sulking over this, but I'm not going to give up on it either, until it is clear whether I will be successful or not. I will say that rooting out bullsh!t is not easier than is psychologically intimidating/manipulating stupid, vitriolic lunatics... but it is not something I haven't done before either.
Tsar of DDO
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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8/10/2013 11:48:19 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Shut up, you tool. ITT blatant hypocrisy by a dude who so thoroughly loves dominating other men that it brings him to be homosexual. You're a twisted f*ck dude.
YYW
Posts: 36,271
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8/10/2013 11:52:24 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 11:48:19 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Shut up, you tool. ITT blatant hypocrisy by a dude who so thoroughly loves dominating other men that it brings him to be homosexual. You're a twisted f*ck dude.

lol, really?
Tsar of DDO
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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8/10/2013 11:54:48 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
And you're even trying to portray yourself as me which is worse again. That's what all this trying to get closer to me was about then? the trying to get me talking to you in PMs and sucking up to me? That's pretty f*cked up dude.

I don't know what your deal is, but you need to get your head checked.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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8/10/2013 11:55:04 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 11:38:29 PM, YYW wrote:
Cody, I think that in many cases, where a member's bullsh!t is really no more than the result of some wishful interest in a topic in tandem with a generalized lack of foundational knowledge, then it could be corrected. I think that in this case -not all, but specifically with this- that I am not in a real position to teach, because only those who wish to be taught are teachable -though it should go without saying that that approach is what I tried first, because that is what is right to be done first. Only because I was not successful in making appeals through reason do I post this, now, in what very well may appear to be a lamentable tone.

If they do not wish to be taught, then you have not been sufficiently persistent.

I will say, on a slightly related but relatively divergent note, that my balance between DDO/life was out of proportion for a while. But now, I've got a job and I'm doing some other stuff on the side so DDO get's considerably less time than it once did. I'm not sulking over this, but I'm not going to give up on it either, until it is clear whether I will be successful or not. I will say that rooting out bullsh!t is not easier than is psychologically intimidating/manipulating stupid, vitriolic lunatics... but it is not something I haven't done before either.

You may find it useful for extending your patience not to think of them as "vitriolic lunatics". I have seen and interacted with violently insane people (I'm sure you've had comparable experience[s]), and it is very unlikely that anyone on this site matches that description. It is very easy to dismiss as irredeemable those whom you consign to madness, and I think you're sufficiently well-studied in Foucault's work to know the dangers of deploying normalizing psychiatric judgments against people you find irritating or frustratingly dense.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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8/10/2013 11:57:43 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 11:48:19 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Shut up, you tool. ITT blatant hypocrisy by a dude who so thoroughly loves dominating other men that it brings him to be homosexual. You're a twisted f*ck dude.

Given that YYW is homosexual, I'm unappreciative of the stigma you're directing toward him. Regardless of what you think of him as a person, there is no room to make jabs like that at his sexuality.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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8/10/2013 11:57:52 PM
Posted: 3 years ago
Provide a link of you running Heineken off this site please because I just can't fathom that as true whatsoever.
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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8/11/2013 12:02:43 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 11:57:43 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 8/10/2013 11:48:19 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Shut up, you tool. ITT blatant hypocrisy by a dude who so thoroughly loves dominating other men that it brings him to be homosexual. You're a twisted f*ck dude.

Given that YYW is homosexual, I'm unappreciative of the stigma you're directing toward him. Regardless of what you think of him as a person, there is no room to make jabs like that at his sexuality.

Cody bro, let's not live in the delusional world of sexuality not pertaining to personality, or even not directly stemming from it. I do believe sp's current inactivity is as a cause of having realized this reality to be honest to speak for the truth of this fact. And then there are all the ugly, manly lesbians too. This dude has twisted sadistic tendencies and cultured to a high degree, no denying it.
YYW
Posts: 36,271
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8/11/2013 12:05:41 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 11:55:04 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 8/10/2013 11:38:29 PM, YYW wrote:
Cody, I think that in many cases, where a member's bullsh!t is really no more than the result of some wishful interest in a topic in tandem with a generalized lack of foundational knowledge, then it could be corrected. I think that in this case -not all, but specifically with this- that I am not in a real position to teach, because only those who wish to be taught are teachable -though it should go without saying that that approach is what I tried first, because that is what is right to be done first. Only because I was not successful in making appeals through reason do I post this, now, in what very well may appear to be a lamentable tone.

If they do not wish to be taught, then you have not been sufficiently persistent.

That's an interesting perspective, and I make room for that possibility in most cases -like in a classroom. Even though DDO is not a classroom, I think that there is still ample opportunity to be persistent, but I think that success in some cases is impossible when facts -basic facts- are up for grabs. If I can't even have a conversation with someone where we agree on the facts or are at least able to discuss the facts without the other resorting to bullsh!t, there is no progress to be had.

I will say, on a slightly related but relatively divergent note, that my balance between DDO/life was out of proportion for a while. But now, I've got a job and I'm doing some other stuff on the side so DDO get's considerably less time than it once did. I'm not sulking over this, but I'm not going to give up on it either, until it is clear whether I will be successful or not. I will say that rooting out bullsh!t is not easier than is psychologically intimidating/manipulating stupid, vitriolic lunatics... but it is not something I haven't done before either.

You may find it useful for extending your patience not to think of them as "vitriolic lunatics".

In that case, I was only talking about Heineken, Qopel, GWL-CPA, and Gilliendos -and no others.

I have seen and interacted with violently insane people (I'm sure you've had comparable experience[s]), and it is very unlikely that anyone on this site matches that description.

There is a pretty substantial history of mental illness (both diagnosed and not, but obviously manifest) in my family. My thoughts about the merits of mental health aside, while I understand your point, I'm not saying "vitriolic lunatics" in the sense that those people are insane, so much as they are acrimonious quacks who through their behavior cause considerable damage to the integrity of the site. Thad said, I grant you that "lunatic" in its archaic or present usage, probably wasn't the most precise word to use in that instance -but jackass, knuckle dragging neanderthal, etc. would more properly suffice.
Tsar of DDO
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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8/11/2013 12:06:07 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
Actually, it's more that he wishes to appear in control of other men, I think, which would suggest huge insecurity.

...all the same, he's f*cked up.
YYW
Posts: 36,271
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8/11/2013 12:08:20 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/10/2013 11:57:43 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 8/10/2013 11:48:19 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Shut up, you tool. ITT blatant hypocrisy by a dude who so thoroughly loves dominating other men that it brings him to be homosexual. You're a twisted f*ck dude.

Given that YYW is homosexual, I'm unappreciative of the stigma you're directing toward him. Regardless of what you think of him as a person, there is no room to make jabs like that at his sexuality.

Badger and I have an amusing history, though one which I don't think is appropriate to share in the open forums. I think, though, that he's still offended that I refused to send him pictures of myself naked -even after he persistently asked.
Tsar of DDO
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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8/11/2013 12:10:36 AM
Posted: 3 years ago
At 8/11/2013 12:02:43 AM, AnDoctuir wrote:
At 8/10/2013 11:57:43 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 8/10/2013 11:48:19 PM, AnDoctuir wrote:
Shut up, you tool. ITT blatant hypocrisy by a dude who so thoroughly loves dominating other men that it brings him to be homosexual. You're a twisted f*ck dude.

Given that YYW is homosexual, I'm unappreciative of the stigma you're directing toward him. Regardless of what you think of him as a person, there is no room to make jabs like that at his sexuality.

Cody bro, let's not live in the delusional world of sexuality not pertaining to personality, or even not directly stemming from it. I do believe sp's current inactivity is as a cause of having realized this reality to be honest to speak for the truth of this fact. And then there are all the ugly, manly lesbians too. This dude has twisted sadistic tendencies and cultured to a high degree, no denying it.

Let's suppose all that's true--I don't give a fuck. You're generally a good guy, and I like you, but I want to be clear: do not, ever, take stabs at someone--YYW or anyone else--on account of their sexuality. You can call him a dick, you can say he's arrogant, you can label him a psychopath, whatever you want--if, however, you bring his sexuality into this--if your insult, in other words, involves his homosexuality--it will not end well for either of us. I don't tolerate religious condemnations of sexuality, and I will likewise not tolerate psychological condemnations. You're better than that, so stop it.