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The American Dream

bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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1/24/2014 12:31:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
What is the American Dream?

I have always felt as if the nuclear--2 heterosexual parents, 1-2 kids, a pet, in a suburban neighborhood--embodied the American Dream.

But I seriously cannot believe that this is the American Dream. It's a cookie cutter mentality: one goal for all people.

The notion of the Dream for me, as a gay, liberal, young adult, is different, but not dissimilar to the aforesaid version. I envisage a husband, a dog, 4-5 kids, in a suburban neighborhood.

But I KNOW that, as much as I want those things, those components are not enough. It isn't fulfilling. That's why it can't be the dream--it's only part of it.

What rounds out the dream? What are the other components of the Dream? Success? Friends? Knowledge? Power? Simplicity?

Any thoughts would be great!
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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1/24/2014 1:50:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
There is no dream.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
YYW
Posts: 36,355
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1/24/2014 3:07:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/24/2014 12:31:50 AM, bsh1 wrote:
What is the American Dream?

I have always felt as if the nuclear--2 heterosexual parents, 1-2 kids, a pet, in a suburban neighborhood--embodied the American Dream.

But I seriously cannot believe that this is the American Dream. It's a cookie cutter mentality: one goal for all people.

The notion of the Dream for me, as a gay, liberal, young adult, is different, but not dissimilar to the aforesaid version. I envisage a husband, a dog, 4-5 kids, in a suburban neighborhood.

But I KNOW that, as much as I want those things, those components are not enough. It isn't fulfilling. That's why it can't be the dream--it's only part of it.

What rounds out the dream? What are the other components of the Dream? Success? Friends? Knowledge? Power? Simplicity?

Any thoughts would be great!

Back in the 50s, when America was settling into the post-war era at the dawn of the nuclear age, the American dream was a ranch house in a Levittown with a plot of land, a stay-at-home wife who baked apple pies, two or three kids who went to good schools and (of course) a dog.

In the 60s and 70s, that sort of changed as the economy waxed and wained and things got pretty awful for a lot of people, but things got rapidly better for others. The GI bill changed how people thought about success, and opened the floodgates to American colleges and universities.

The 1980s and 1990s sort of began a gradual shift where the middle class became as stratified as the rest of society -but only because what constituted the "middle class" would have looked like poverty in another time. The income gap really began to widen as well.

When I was growing up, we lived in the suburbs all my life. My parent's thought it was a wholesome environment, or, at least a more wholesome and well rounded environment than in a city or in the country. I hated it... my neighbors were plasticized alcoholics, many had ostentatiously superficial standards of appropriateness, almost all of them were busy bodies. Sure, they had their nice houses, nice cars and the like (and more than a few of them went into real debt to get them) as a material statement of their success... and they valued those things.

I don't give a sh!t about a big house, or impractical but flashy cars that are only bought in an attempt to rekindle youthful spirit. I want a (minimally decorated) condo in the city, with a dog, that's big enough for my boyfriend/husband (assuming I have one, lol) and no more. I'd like a small mortgage payment and low building fees, to give me the freedom to go places and do things. A ski cabin in Vermont and a beach house in the Caribbean would be nice too, but they're not necessary -lol.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,355
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1/24/2014 3:10:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I also will not, ever, live in the suburbs... they're plastic and empty. The people are conservative, self obsessed and pretentious. The kids are spoiled and irritating... too much bullsh!t. In cities and on countrysides... much better there.
Tsar of DDO
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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1/24/2014 6:46:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/24/2014 3:07:41 PM, YYW wrote:

I don't give a sh!t about a big house, or impractical but flashy cars that are only bought in an attempt to rekindle youthful spirit. I want a (minimally decorated) condo in the city, with a dog, that's big enough for my boyfriend/husband (assuming I have one, lol) and no more. I'd like a small mortgage payment and low building fees, to give me the freedom to go places and do things. A ski cabin in Vermont and a beach house in the Caribbean would be nice too, but they're not necessary -lol.

My ideal home would be Chimsee Palace in Bavaria, or maybe Versailles. I love ostentatious palaces with a rich history. If I couldn't have those, I'd settle for a castle, lol...

But, in less I become a multi-millionaire, I don't think that dream will be fulfilled. Even if I do become that rich, I'd want to save my money to run for office.

Absent the palace or castle, I would actually like the suburbs, but I would want to be within 30 minutes of a city. That's easy in Maryland, you've got Baltimore, Philadelphia, DC, and Richmond all nearby. It doesn't feel like your lost in suburbia--you always have an escape destination.

A dog is a necessity--I agree. Two dogs is even better. After all, one is the loneliest number. Preferably Chocolate Labs, a Swiss Mountain Dog, or an English Mastiff.

I don't really car about the car, as long as it's not a minivan.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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1/24/2014 7:02:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
The American dream is whatever you want it to be, because in America every individual is free to pursue their grandest desires bounded by the moral and lawful restrictions created by the people, for the people.
Nolite Timere
AnDoctuir
Posts: 11,060
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1/24/2014 7:18:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I, too, envisage a husband, a dog and 4-5 kids, in a suburban neighborhood.

lol... some people are so simple. Though, I guess, whether you'll have 4 or 5 kids might take some working on.
Oromagi
Posts: 857
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1/24/2014 7:46:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/24/2014 12:31:50 AM, bsh1 wrote:
What is the American Dream?

I have always felt as if the nuclear--2 heterosexual parents, 1-2 kids, a pet, in a suburban neighborhood--embodied the American Dream.
What rounds out the dream? What are the other components of the Dream? Success? Friends? Knowledge? Power? Simplicity?

Any thoughts would be great!

I think the longest dialogue in American History is whether the American dream is a contest with winners and losers (Capitalism, Classism), or a monument of culture, the great work of prosperity through freedom (Socialism, Progressivism) upon which each generation must labor and expand. The tension between these arguments seems essential to our national propulsion. Although we admire the model of collective achievement, we recognize that competition motivates Americans above any other public incentive and must not be dismissed. Is Donald Trump the ultimate expression of the American Dream? I don't think so. I think achievements like the moon landing and the polio vaccine are more representative landmarks. Each generation renews the dream by improving life in America through scientific and industrial advancement while maintaining our independence.
YYW
Posts: 36,355
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1/24/2014 8:46:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/24/2014 6:46:51 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 1/24/2014 3:07:41 PM, YYW wrote:

I don't give a sh!t about a big house, or impractical but flashy cars that are only bought in an attempt to rekindle youthful spirit. I want a (minimally decorated) condo in the city, with a dog, that's big enough for my boyfriend/husband (assuming I have one, lol) and no more. I'd like a small mortgage payment and low building fees, to give me the freedom to go places and do things. A ski cabin in Vermont and a beach house in the Caribbean would be nice too, but they're not necessary -lol.

My ideal home would be Chimsee Palace in Bavaria, or maybe Versailles. I love ostentatious palaces with a rich history. If I couldn't have those, I'd settle for a castle, lol...

I think I've been to Chimsee Schloss, but I can't remember for sure. Very large... very very large.

But, in less I become a multi-millionaire, I don't think that dream will be fulfilled. Even if I do become that rich, I'd want to save my money to run for office.

Hmmm... interesting.

Absent the palace or castle, I would actually like the suburbs, but I would want to be within 30 minutes of a city. That's easy in Maryland, you've got Baltimore, Philadelphia, DC, and Richmond all nearby. It doesn't feel like your lost in suburbia--you always have an escape destination.

A dog is a necessity--I agree. Two dogs is even better. After all, one is the loneliest number. Preferably Chocolate Labs, a Swiss Mountain Dog, or an English Mastiff.

I'd suggest the Swiss mountain dog, or a Caucasian Shepard.

I don't really car about the car, as long as it's not a minivan.

lol, I hate minivans too.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,355
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1/24/2014 8:56:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
So, this is an "aww" post for me. About dogs, I tend to prefer them big and fluffy... like (lol) a caucasian shepherd, a great pyrenees and St. Bernards are nice too.

Respectively:

http://chepkadog.com...
http://media.nbcwashington.com...*491/Great-Pyrenees-missing.jpg

Oh, I also like tibetan mastiffs....

http://www.wallpaperswala.com...

They're like fuzzy rottweilers!
Tsar of DDO
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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1/24/2014 9:27:29 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/24/2014 8:56:54 PM, YYW wrote:
So, this is an "aww" post for me. About dogs, I tend to prefer them big and fluffy... like (lol) a caucasian shepherd, a great pyrenees and St. Bernards are nice too.

Respectively:

http://chepkadog.com...
http://media.nbcwashington.com...*491/Great-Pyrenees-missing.jpg

Oh, I also like tibetan mastiffs....

http://www.wallpaperswala.com...

They're like fuzzy rottweilers!

Awwwwww!

The Tibetan mastiff is nice...though a bit too much hair.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
YYW
Posts: 36,355
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1/24/2014 9:48:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I can understand wanting to be in the suburbs, though.... even though I know they're not for me, they offer people stability, peace of mind, a sense of community and a sense of safety... even if suburbs turn the borderlands between the city and the countryside into cloistered off archipelagos.
Tsar of DDO
R0b1Billion
Posts: 3,733
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1/25/2014 10:17:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The American Dream is a selfish lie. It is the equivalent of putting ten people on a desert island with room for five homes, and telling them that they can all have a home if the work hard enough competing with each other.

"You have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin, on the American Dream
Beliefs in a nutshell:
- The Ends never justify the Means.
- Objectivity is secondary to subjectivity.
- The War on Drugs is the worst policy in the U.S.
- Most people worship technology as a religion.
- Computers will never become sentient.
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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1/26/2014 2:52:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/24/2014 7:02:34 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
The American dream is whatever you want it to be, because in America every individual is free to pursue their grandest desires bounded by the moral and lawful restrictions created by the people, for the people.

Oh my god don't talk please.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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1/26/2014 3:05:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/26/2014 2:52:49 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 1/24/2014 7:02:34 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
The American dream is whatever you want it to be, because in America every individual is free to pursue their grandest desires bounded by the moral and lawful restrictions created by the people, for the people.

Oh my god don't talk please.

Bunch uh liberal pansies won't let a man be patriotic
Nolite Timere
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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1/26/2014 3:06:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/26/2014 3:05:55 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 1/26/2014 2:52:49 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 1/24/2014 7:02:34 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
The American dream is whatever you want it to be, because in America every individual is free to pursue their grandest desires bounded by the moral and lawful restrictions created by the people, for the people.

Oh my god don't talk please.

Bunch uh liberal pansies won't let a man be patriotic

If the first post wasn't bad enough now you've gone and done called me a liberal. Strike two mister.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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1/26/2014 3:25:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/26/2014 3:06:43 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 1/26/2014 3:05:55 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 1/26/2014 2:52:49 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 1/24/2014 7:02:34 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
The American dream is whatever you want it to be, because in America every individual is free to pursue their grandest desires bounded by the moral and lawful restrictions created by the people, for the people.

Oh my god don't talk please.

Bunch uh liberal pansies won't let a man be patriotic

If the first post wasn't bad enough now you've gone and done called me a liberal. Strike two mister.

You are liberal aren't you?
Nolite Timere
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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1/26/2014 3:26:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/26/2014 3:25:25 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 1/26/2014 3:06:43 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 1/26/2014 3:05:55 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 1/26/2014 2:52:49 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 1/24/2014 7:02:34 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
The American dream is whatever you want it to be, because in America every individual is free to pursue their grandest desires bounded by the moral and lawful restrictions created by the people, for the people.

Oh my god don't talk please.

Bunch uh liberal pansies won't let a man be patriotic

If the first post wasn't bad enough now you've gone and done called me a liberal. Strike two mister.

You are liberal aren't you?

I'm counting this as strike three. Yer on my list now, child.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.
xXCryptoXx
Posts: 5,000
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1/26/2014 3:28:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/26/2014 3:26:56 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 1/26/2014 3:25:25 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 1/26/2014 3:06:43 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 1/26/2014 3:05:55 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 1/26/2014 2:52:49 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 1/24/2014 7:02:34 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
The American dream is whatever you want it to be, because in America every individual is free to pursue their grandest desires bounded by the moral and lawful restrictions created by the people, for the people.

Oh my god don't talk please.

Bunch uh liberal pansies won't let a man be patriotic

If the first post wasn't bad enough now you've gone and done called me a liberal. Strike two mister.

You are liberal aren't you?

I'm counting this as strike three. Yer on my list now, child.

Actually your profile says communist lolololol
Nolite Timere
Noumena
Posts: 6,047
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1/26/2014 3:29:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 1/26/2014 3:28:39 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 1/26/2014 3:26:56 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 1/26/2014 3:25:25 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 1/26/2014 3:06:43 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 1/26/2014 3:05:55 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
At 1/26/2014 2:52:49 PM, Noumena wrote:
At 1/24/2014 7:02:34 PM, xXCryptoXx wrote:
The American dream is whatever you want it to be, because in America every individual is free to pursue their grandest desires bounded by the moral and lawful restrictions created by the people, for the people.

Oh my god don't talk please.

Bunch uh liberal pansies won't let a man be patriotic

If the first post wasn't bad enough now you've gone and done called me a liberal. Strike two mister.

You are liberal aren't you?

I'm counting this as strike three. Yer on my list now, child.

Actually your profile says communist lolololol

I will kill you.
: At 5/13/2014 7:05:20 PM, Crescendo wrote:
: The difference is that the gay movement is currently pushing their will on Churches, as shown in the link to gay marriage in Denmark. Meanwhile, the Inquisition ended several centuries ago.