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Conduct Violations

wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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2/4/2014 3:51:55 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I expect there to be a lot of protest to what I intend to do in the future, which is to report uncivil behavior (mainly personal attacks and insults) whenever I come across them and find them problematic. I expect it to be often, as I have a rather low tolerance for uncivil conduct. This thread is meant to be a destination for redirects stemming from such protests.

Thankfully, moderation here has expressed a desire to be more pro-active in enforcing these specifics aspects of the TOS, as publicly evidenced by ore_ele's vote on Roy's debate about TOS enforcement where s/he agreed before and after the debate with the PRO position (http://www.debate.org...). Therefore, I no longer see the need to reciprocate uncivil behavior, which for me I've always found to be justifiable absent TOS enforcement. Instead, as of the date of this post, I will report untoward conduct immediately. For me personally, this is a much more desirable outcome.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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2/4/2014 4:10:56 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/4/2014 4:00:43 AM, Cermank wrote:
Probably better than flamewars.

I would take "probably" out of your statement. =)
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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2/4/2014 5:04:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Being uncivil isn't a TOS violation and it seems like an abuse of the report system to treat it as such.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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2/4/2014 6:03:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/4/2014 5:04:53 AM, Korashk wrote:
Being uncivil isn't a TOS violation and it seems like an abuse of the report system to treat it as such.

http://www.debate.org...

At 2/2/2014 4:18:13 AM, Korashk wrote:
Get over yourself.

At 2/2/2014 11:26:07 PM, Korashk wrote:
I can't even think of a response to a question this stupid.


The first is a clear, personal attack, which is a TOS violation.

The second, perhaps you're right, since you're attacking the question and not the person. Still, given the prior violation and the coarse language, it's easy to draw a clear connection.
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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2/4/2014 9:22:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/4/2014 6:03:39 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 2/4/2014 5:04:53 AM, Korashk wrote:
Being uncivil isn't a TOS violation and it seems like an abuse of the report system to treat it as such.

http://www.debate.org...

At 2/2/2014 4:18:13 AM, Korashk wrote:
Get over yourself.

At 2/2/2014 11:26:07 PM, Korashk wrote:
I can't even think of a response to a question this stupid.


The first is a clear, personal attack, which is a TOS violation.

The second, perhaps you're right, since you're attacking the question and not the person. Still, given the prior violation and the coarse language, it's easy to draw a clear connection.

Get over yourself is not a "clear personal attack" and if you think so then you are way way way too sensitive.

I agree that blatant, overtly offensive personal attacks should possibly be looked at but still, people need to toughen up. The whiny culture of this generation is sickening.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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2/4/2014 9:24:31 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/4/2014 9:22:05 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/4/2014 6:03:39 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 2/4/2014 5:04:53 AM, Korashk wrote:
Being uncivil isn't a TOS violation and it seems like an abuse of the report system to treat it as such.

http://www.debate.org...

At 2/2/2014 4:18:13 AM, Korashk wrote:
Get over yourself.

At 2/2/2014 11:26:07 PM, Korashk wrote:
I can't even think of a response to a question this stupid.


The first is a clear, personal attack, which is a TOS violation.

The second, perhaps you're right, since you're attacking the question and not the person. Still, given the prior violation and the coarse language, it's easy to draw a clear connection.

Get over yourself is not a "clear personal attack" and if you think so then you are way way way too sensitive.

First of all, most disagreements involve attacks on others' arguments, and that's fine. Whenever you inject personal references, then you cross the line, and make it personal. Then any and all attacks become personal, and this will easily lead to problems.

It's not about sensitivity as much as it's about proper argumentation. "Get over yourself" does not forward an argument. It only describes disdain for your target, a person.

I agree that blatant, overtly offensive personal attacks should possibly be looked at but still, people need to toughen up. The whiny culture of this generation is sickening.

Would you complain if you got banned? If you did, why don't you "toughen up"?
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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2/4/2014 9:27:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/4/2014 9:24:31 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 2/4/2014 9:22:05 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/4/2014 6:03:39 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 2/4/2014 5:04:53 AM, Korashk wrote:
Being uncivil isn't a TOS violation and it seems like an abuse of the report system to treat it as such.

http://www.debate.org...

At 2/2/2014 4:18:13 AM, Korashk wrote:
Get over yourself.

At 2/2/2014 11:26:07 PM, Korashk wrote:
I can't even think of a response to a question this stupid.


The first is a clear, personal attack, which is a TOS violation.

The second, perhaps you're right, since you're attacking the question and not the person. Still, given the prior violation and the coarse language, it's easy to draw a clear connection.

Get over yourself is not a "clear personal attack" and if you think so then you are way way way too sensitive.

First of all, most disagreements involve attacks on others' arguments, and that's fine. Whenever you inject personal references, then you cross the line, and make it personal. Then any and all attacks become personal, and this will easily lead to problems.

It's not about sensitivity as much as it's about proper argumentation. "Get over yourself" does not forward an argument. It only describes disdain for your target, a person.

I agree that blatant, overtly offensive personal attacks should possibly be looked at but still, people need to toughen up. The whiny culture of this generation is sickening.

Would you complain if you got banned? If you did, why don't you "toughen up"?

I've been banned before, and probably no one knows that because I didn't complain.

And I agree that items like that don't forward proper intellectual discussion but neither should people be banned or reported for such minor lapses in judgement. If it's a continual thing that crosses the line multiple times and never goes back to actual argumentation then the person should be reported.

I think we just disagree on the point where one should get reported or not.
wrichcirw
Posts: 11,196
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2/4/2014 9:29:53 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/4/2014 9:27:51 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/4/2014 9:24:31 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 2/4/2014 9:22:05 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/4/2014 6:03:39 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 2/4/2014 5:04:53 AM, Korashk wrote:
Being uncivil isn't a TOS violation and it seems like an abuse of the report system to treat it as such.

http://www.debate.org...

At 2/2/2014 4:18:13 AM, Korashk wrote:
Get over yourself.

At 2/2/2014 11:26:07 PM, Korashk wrote:
I can't even think of a response to a question this stupid.


The first is a clear, personal attack, which is a TOS violation.

The second, perhaps you're right, since you're attacking the question and not the person. Still, given the prior violation and the coarse language, it's easy to draw a clear connection.

Get over yourself is not a "clear personal attack" and if you think so then you are way way way too sensitive.

First of all, most disagreements involve attacks on others' arguments, and that's fine. Whenever you inject personal references, then you cross the line, and make it personal. Then any and all attacks become personal, and this will easily lead to problems.

It's not about sensitivity as much as it's about proper argumentation. "Get over yourself" does not forward an argument. It only describes disdain for your target, a person.

I agree that blatant, overtly offensive personal attacks should possibly be looked at but still, people need to toughen up. The whiny culture of this generation is sickening.

Would you complain if you got banned? If you did, why don't you "toughen up"?

I've been banned before, and probably no one knows that because I didn't complain.

And I agree that items like that don't forward proper intellectual discussion but neither should people be banned or reported for such minor lapses in judgement. If it's a continual thing that crosses the line multiple times and never goes back to actual argumentation then the person should be reported.

I think we just disagree on the point where one should get reported or not.

I agree with your general stance and I think there may simply be differing interpretations on what would occur upon being reported. From my correspondences with moderators, reporting is less about retributive action (i.e. banning people) and much more about rehabilitative action (i.e. encouraging civil discourse).
At 8/9/2013 9:41:24 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
If you are civil with me, I will be civil to you. If you decide to bring unreasonable animosity to bear in a reasonable discussion, then what would you expect other than to get flustered?
ConservativePolitico
Posts: 8,210
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2/4/2014 9:32:09 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 2/4/2014 9:29:53 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 2/4/2014 9:27:51 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/4/2014 9:24:31 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 2/4/2014 9:22:05 AM, ConservativePolitico wrote:
At 2/4/2014 6:03:39 AM, wrichcirw wrote:
At 2/4/2014 5:04:53 AM, Korashk wrote:
Being uncivil isn't a TOS violation and it seems like an abuse of the report system to treat it as such.

http://www.debate.org...

At 2/2/2014 4:18:13 AM, Korashk wrote:
Get over yourself.

At 2/2/2014 11:26:07 PM, Korashk wrote:
I can't even think of a response to a question this stupid.


The first is a clear, personal attack, which is a TOS violation.

The second, perhaps you're right, since you're attacking the question and not the person. Still, given the prior violation and the coarse language, it's easy to draw a clear connection.

Get over yourself is not a "clear personal attack" and if you think so then you are way way way too sensitive.

First of all, most disagreements involve attacks on others' arguments, and that's fine. Whenever you inject personal references, then you cross the line, and make it personal. Then any and all attacks become personal, and this will easily lead to problems.

It's not about sensitivity as much as it's about proper argumentation. "Get over yourself" does not forward an argument. It only describes disdain for your target, a person.

I agree that blatant, overtly offensive personal attacks should possibly be looked at but still, people need to toughen up. The whiny culture of this generation is sickening.

Would you complain if you got banned? If you did, why don't you "toughen up"?

I've been banned before, and probably no one knows that because I didn't complain.

And I agree that items like that don't forward proper intellectual discussion but neither should people be banned or reported for such minor lapses in judgement. If it's a continual thing that crosses the line multiple times and never goes back to actual argumentation then the person should be reported.

I think we just disagree on the point where one should get reported or not.

I agree with your general stance and I think there may simply be differing interpretations on what would occur upon being reported. From my correspondences with moderators, reporting is less about retributive action (i.e. banning people) and much more about rehabilitative action (i.e. encouraging civil discourse).

Yeah true, airmax is good at that.