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Question for Married/Engaged Men

Blade-of-Truth
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6/22/2014 1:12:23 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Women...

I'm so sick of getting my hopes up, only to be let down when they fail to meet my standards.

I'm looking for answers from men more experienced than me in the relationship department (long-term relationships).

1) Did you wife/fiancee meet your standards?

2) If not, what was it about her that balanced out her shortcomings?

3) Who is the dominant one in the relationship? It seems to me that for really long-term commitments, it's always the girls who wear the pants.

4) How did you know she was the one? Like, seriously, what set her above any other girl in this world?

I ask these questions because when it comes to women, I am only good in short-term relationships. I want to be good in long-term relationships too. I'm at the age where I need lengthy relationships to practice the domesticated life-style before I actually marry someone - but every relationship I enter ends up getting ruined by them fvcking up in some way or another. So is there a common theme between the one's that you guys have settled for? This is what I am hoping to find out.

Thank you ahead of time for answering if you do. Please be honest, I am really being serious in this thread and am literally depressed for the first time in over a year. I'm losing faith in women and mating altogether, I don't like this at all.
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neptune1bond
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6/22/2014 5:14:39 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/22/2014 1:12:23 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Women...

I'm so sick of getting my hopes up, only to be let down when they fail to meet my standards.

I'm looking for answers from men more experienced than me in the relationship department (long-term relationships).
I don't know how long you mean by "long-term" but I've been married for 10 years and have known my wife for 15. So I'm not one of those guys who are 65 years old and have been married for 40 or anything.

1) Did you wife/fiancee meet your standards?
She exceeds my standards. I've never met another woman like her. She is grace, beauty, elegance, and femininity personified.

2) If not, what was it about her that balanced out her shortcomings?
n/a

3) Who is the dominant one in the relationship? It seems to me that for really long-term commitments, it's always the girls who wear the pants.
I don't believe that anyone should dominate the relationship, but she is definitely the feminine one and I the masculine and those are the roles and responsibilities that we have taken upon ourselves willingly.

4) How did you know she was the one? Like, seriously, what set her above any other girl in this world?
I was searching for someone that I knew I was to be with ever since I could remember (I was aware of her from age 3 and I can't remember much before that). I searched and searched and I recognized her from the first moment that I saw her. The fact that she is gorgeous is only a small portion of what makes her so special. She is smarter than most people I've met. She knows how to really love me. She recognizes the work that it takes to have an amazing relationship and is willing to (expects to) do it. She filled the emptiness within me and I felt (and feel) like a whole person for the first time in my life. I could go on and on, but one of the most important things is that she needs me and I need her and we have learned how to fulfill each other's needs. No other woman could ever possibly do what she does. And I really mean it when I say no other woman could ever do what my wife does. She is a goddess in a world where goddesses simply do not exist. I've looked and, besides my wife, all I've ever seen or found are ordinary girls with nothing all that special to offer. Even now, that's all I ever see when I look around. No other girl could (or can) give me what I wanted. My wife also feels the same way about me and she tells me that regularly. If it isn't reciprocated, then it doesn't matter.

I ask these questions because when it comes to women, I am only good in short-term relationships. I want to be good in long-term relationships too. I'm at the age where I need lengthy relationships to practice the domesticated life-style before I actually marry someone - but every relationship I enter ends up getting ruined by them fvcking up in some way or another. So is there a common theme between the one's that you guys have settled for? This is what I am hoping to find out.

Thank you ahead of time for answering if you do. Please be honest, I am really being serious in this thread and am literally depressed for the first time in over a year. I'm losing faith in women and mating altogether, I don't like this at all.
The problem is that I don't think I can help you (and, in my experience, neither can most anyone else). I've heard nothing but horrible relationship advice from others (or, at least, advice that is rather sterile and benign and not so incredibly useful) and my advice that I can give doesn't commonly work in today's world and probably wouldn't be appreciated or useful to most others. But, at least I can let you know that amazing relationships can and do happen if you're willing to do what it takes to create that for yourself. I absolutely love my situation, but I had to work incredibly hard to make it that way and so did my wife. In fact, another one of the most important qualities that my wife had and has is a willingness to do what it takes to make our relationship into what it could be (that quality, in and of itself, was incredibly hard to find). I believe that the vast majority of people weren't meant to have soul mates, and of those that aren't meant to, very VERY few have (or are willing to develop) the qualities required to have an amazing relationship. Most people that have so-called "successful" relationships (or, in other words, relationships that just don't happen to end in a divorce according to what most people consider a "successful relationship") end up living separate lives but just share the house and car payments and possibly a bed. They act like room mates or business partners rather than best friends for all eternity. If there is any hope for you finding an actual worthwhile relationship, it will lie in the choices you make and the type of man that you decide you will become, your ability to recognize the potential others have for such relationships, and your tenacity in sticking to making it work no matter what. Take it upon yourself to accept full responsibility for creating the situation that you desire and find a woman who is willing to do her part. I don't know how to word this for other people (since it's not fully what I believe, but happens to be as close as I can come and remain somewhat politically correct and socially acceptable), but I guess you should decide what role you would like to play in your relationship and find someone who is willing to play the opposite. Discover the differences between masculine and feminine as it would apply to you and your possible "other" (sometimes this requires being in a relationship in the first place) and help teach your wife/girlfriend/whatever and yourself how to use these things to create a *truly* successful relationship. If none of the things I said resonate with you on any level, then I don't think that I could ever help you and hopefully someone else can help you with your situation. Good luck with your relationships (because nothing will ever be more difficult or rewarding in your entire life, so you're gonna need it).

Btw, most people keep telling me that having children is the most difficult and rewarding experience in anyone's life, and to that my only response would be the following. One day your children will grow up and LEAVE YOU, so if that's where your priority is then I truly wish you good luck when you're left alone with your spouse and they aren't where the majority of your efforts have gone. When that time comes and if you haven't made your spouse your first priority, then you will be left staring at this other person that you barely know (and maybe don't even like any more) but is the only person you still actually have that you can possibly rely upon. At that time, the rewards of having children won't seem quite so important as the relationship that you don't have any more with your spouse. Reality is a b*tch, isn't it?

Spouse first (EVERY TIME and in EVERYTHING), children a distant second, and then everything else a dot far off into the horizon. If you don't agree, then may the powers that be have mercy on you when the day comes that you have to deal with the fact that your children don't need you and their own lives (and relationships) become their priority and they only visit you when they need to borrow money or (if you're lucky) they actually want your advice on something. (These last statements apply to career, or almost anything else for that matter, as well as they do children.)
Blade-of-Truth
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6/22/2014 11:27:29 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/22/2014 5:14:39 AM, neptune1bond wrote:
At 6/22/2014 1:12:23 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
4) How did you know she was the one? Like, seriously, what set her above any other girl in this world?
I was searching for someone that I knew I was to be with ever since I could remember (I was aware of her from age 3 and I can't remember much before that). I searched and searched and I recognized her from the first moment that I saw her. The fact that she is gorgeous is only a small portion of what makes her so special. She is smarter than most people I've met. She knows how to really love me. She recognizes the work that it takes to have an amazing relationship and is willing to (expects to) do it. She filled the emptiness within me and I felt (and feel) like a whole person for the first time in my life. I could go on and on, but one of the most important things is that she needs me and I need her and we have learned how to fulfill each other's needs. No other woman could ever possibly do what she does. And I really mean it when I say no other woman could ever do what my wife does. She is a goddess in a world where goddesses simply do not exist. I've looked and, besides my wife, all I've ever seen or found are ordinary girls with nothing all that special to offer. Even now, that's all I ever see when I look around. No other girl could (or can) give me what I wanted. My wife also feels the same way about me and she tells me that regularly. If it isn't reciprocated, then it doesn't matter.

I'm not sure if this makes me feel better or worse. I find myself envious of your relationship. It hurts me knowing that relationships like yours exists, when I seemingly can't find someone even half as great as your wife sounds like. On the flip side, it also gives me hope that women like her are out there. I think you have a nice relationship and one that I would be lucky to have someday. Why exactly did she stick out above all others though, even at such an early age? Was it an inner or innate feeling you had, like you just KNEW she was the one?

The problem is that I don't think I can help you (and, in my experience, neither can most anyone else). I've heard nothing but horrible relationship advice from others (or, at least, advice that is rather sterile and benign and not so incredibly useful) and my advice that I can give doesn't commonly work in today's world and probably wouldn't be appreciated or useful to most others.

I'm not like most others... please, I would like to hear your advice.

But, at least I can let you know that amazing relationships can and do happen if you're willing to do what it takes to create that for yourself. I absolutely love my situation, but I had to work incredibly hard to make it that way and so did my wife.

How so? I need to understand what kind of work it takes to make it... work. The problem for me is that every woman I meet is either better or worse than me, I can't seem to find an equal, and I've been looking for several years now.

In fact, another one of the most important qualities that my wife had and has is a willingness to do what it takes to make our relationship into what it could be (that quality, in and of itself, was incredibly hard to find).

It IS!!! The last 3 girls I've dated - that's been their issue. It's a one-sided thing and I can't stand it. I don't understand why they would say Yes if they're not ready to really commit and build a life or something with me! It hurts, and makes me afraid of wanting to enter relationships now which is pathetic. I'm just sick of investing time and emotion into something that was never meant to be. I need to know what I'm missing or what the early warning signs are so I don't keep getting stuck in this cycle.

I believe that the vast majority of people weren't meant to have soul mates, and of those that aren't meant to, very VERY few have (or are willing to develop) the qualities required to have an amazing relationship. Most people that have so-called "successful" relationships (or, in other words, relationships that just don't happen to end in a divorce according to what most people consider a "successful relationship") end up living separate lives but just share the house and car payments and possibly a bed. They act like room mates or business partners rather than best friends for all eternity.

That's such an unfortunate truth. Seriously. At this point in my life, I would rather make love to one woman until the day I die that I can truly love, vs. having sex with a hundred girls. I thought I had a soul-mate, twice, both times those girls ended up hurting me with lies. It was some weird karmic trap. I had a *love for both girls, who I met at different times in my life but still *loved them. Oddly enough, they both would say they loved me - while also dating guys who lived near them locally. Talk about a twisted love triangle. I've stopped communicating with both, in the hope that something better would come along, but nope. Nothing but continuous let-downs and pain.
* = I might not know what true love is... idk.

If there is any hope for you finding an actual worthwhile relationship, it will lie in the choices you make and the type of man that you decide you will become, your ability to recognize the potential others have for such relationships, and your tenacity in sticking to making it work no matter what. Take it upon yourself to accept full responsibility for creating the situation that you desire and find a woman who is willing to do her part. I don't know how to word this for other people (since it's not fully what I believe, but happens to be as close as I can come and remain somewhat politically correct and socially acceptable), but I guess you should decide what role you would like to play in your relationship and find someone who is willing to play the opposite. Discover the differences between masculine and feminine as it would apply to you and your possible "other" (sometimes this requires being in a relationship in the first place) and help teach your wife/girlfriend/whatever and yourself how to use these things to create a *truly* successful relationship.

How did you learn to see these things? How did you apply it when dating?

Btw, most people keep telling me that having children is the most difficult and rewarding experience in anyone's life, and to that my only response would be the following. One day your children will grow up and LEAVE YOU, so if that's where your priority is then I truly wish you good luck when you're left alone with your spouse and they aren't where the majority of your efforts have gone. When that time comes and if you haven't made your spouse your first priority, then you will be left staring at this other person that you barely know (and maybe don't even like any more) but is the only person you still actually have that you can possibly rely upon. At that time, the rewards of having children won't seem quite so important as the relationship that you don't have any more with your spouse. Reality is a b*tch, isn't it?

Wow... I never looked at it that way. I always thought that something I create would be the only thing I am truly capable of loving. This might seem like an extremely loaded question, but what is true Love, for you? Does it even exist objectively, or am I to somehow create my own idea of Love and then apply it to my life? How will I know if my love is the best kind of love she can get?
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neptune1bond
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6/23/2014 6:42:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/22/2014 11:27:29 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:

I'm not sure if this makes me feel better or worse. (etc.) Was it an inner or innate feeling you had, like you just KNEW she was the one?
I think that anyone can learn how to build an amazing relationship if they are willing to approach it in the right way, so I don't think you should feel bad at all. And I'll answer the questions below where the idea of soul mates is mentioned.

I'm not like most others... please, I would like to hear your advice.
O.k. I'll first let you know that I am aware that anything I say is only my opinion. There are a lot of things I might say that will seem strange, upsetting, or possibly old-fashioned (or sometimes even wrong according to what you might have learned). If you can handle it and keep an open mind, you might find it incredibly valuable, though. I'm going to warn you that there are so many things I feel that could (and should) be discussed that I probably couldn't cover all the things I think you should know. You can take or leave what I say as you please and the consequences will be your responsibility. For the sake of anyone else who might be reading this, I will mention that I am assuming that you are a heterosexual male who desires to perform the role that I deem to be the masculine role. Any other person who wants to use my advice (even if they are of alternate sexuality) can simply choose whether they associate with the masculine (or male) role or the feminine (or female) role and apply it to their own situation accordingly. Being a heterosexual man does not mean that you should necessarily be the one to be masculine (or male) and being a homosexual man does not mean that you should necessarily be the one to be feminine (or female) and the opposite also applies to women. Now that I've gotten all the disclaimer bullsh*t out of the way for all of those who desire to be as politically correct as possible, even to the point of stupidity, I'll discuss a lot more below.

How so? I need to understand what kind of work it takes to make it... work. The problem for me is that every woman I meet is either better or worse than me, I can't seem to find an equal, and I've been looking for several years now.
First erase any idea that you might have that any woman might be above or below you. I'll discuss more below.

It IS!!! The last 3 girls I've dated (etc.) getting stuck in this cycle.
I think some of this might relate to possible misunderstandings about your role in the relationship. There are other things that you'll have to simply get over. See below.

That's such an unfortunate truth. (etc.) let-downs and pain.
* = I might not know what true love is... idk.
First, I'd like to say that I believe that a soul mate is something that you either have or don't. I should clarify that when I say that I "knew about my wife" when I was only 3 years old, I hadn't actually met her yet. I didn't simply have an "ideal woman/girl" in my head at that age, I specifically knew that there was a person that I was searching for and I ACTUALLY KNEW WHO SHE WAS as an individual rather than some general "idea" or "preference" (although I didn't specifically know her name but, believe it or not, the name I had in my head was only off by two letters). In other words, what most people might think is "the girl I marry will have to be a nice person", whereas what I was thinking was more like "I know that Sarah is a really nice person" (Sarah is not really my wife's name, it's just an example). When I finally did meet my wife for the first time in person, my immediate thought at first glance was "there she is!" I recognized her instantly and knew it was her before we even spoke. My advice to you is that if you are not ABSOLUTELY and COMPLETELY certain that you have a soul mate, then you don't actually have one and you shouldn't waste your time holding out for one.

Don't let what I say about soul mates discourage you. Having a soul mate doesn't mean that you will have a great relationship and there are plenty of people who don't have soul mates who have far better relationships. Having a soul mate really isn't something to envy, it simply is or isn't. A relationship between soul mates requires just as much work as one between any other two people and it will fail just as easily if that work is not put in. As far as what true love is, I'll discuss that below.

How did you learn to see these things? How did you apply it when dating?
The first answer I give you will be kinda upsetting. I knew a number of things since I could remember and they simply made sense to me. But, the majority of things I learned through observation of other people and my own life as well as through study. If you truly think that this is important, then you will really need to learn and be willing to change many things about yourself. See below.

Wow... I never looked at it that way. I always thought that something I create would be the only thing (etc.) How will I know if my love is the best kind of love she can get?
If you can't love the woman who helped you make the creation (child) far more than the creation itself, then you will only end up regretting having chosen to make the creation with that particular person at all (even though you may not regret the children themselves). Actual love doesn't really mean anything when it's so easy to obtain and the love of the other person is intrinsic to their survival and very well-being. It's so easy to love your children and you should, but your spouse is the only one that you will carry with you through all eternity. As I said before, your children WILL leave you and, when that day comes, their relationship with you will no longer be their priority and they will have to pursue their own life. Your spouse will be the only one who will actually remain by your side throughout your entire life (and hopefully for the rest of forever). That person will need your love more than your children will and you will need their love more than you will need your children's love. Besides, by loving your spouse more, you will actually set the example that your children will pursue in their own lives. By loving your wife more, you are actually setting your children up to have a loving relationship later.

True love is something that will always be subjective since the very idea does not exist outside of the feelings, thoughts, and opinions of living beings. That being said, I believe that true love is the love that endures. This, of course, requires constant work, effort, and KNOWLEDGE. You will not know true love until your love has been tested and has survived.

Your last question has bothered me immensely (I'm not annoyed with you, I'm only unsettled by the comment). If she doesn't want your love, then she shouldn't commit to you at all. Same thing goes for you. The idea that "someone out there might love her better" is based on the idea that you simply get married and what you have is what you get and then *hopefully* "happily ever after". There's so many things wrong with those ideas. The purpose of "marriage" and "commitment" is that you are going to *BUILD* a relationship together. You work on the relationship until it's exactly what you both need and want. If any person thinks that they're going to find someone who automatically just gives them everything they need and want, then they are going to have a rude awakening later. Your love is more than good enough, period. (continued below)
neptune1bond
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6/23/2014 9:01:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I sat down to write this next post and realized that so many thoughts were spinning through my head that I couldn't possibly type them all. My whole life has revolved around finding and creating the relationship I have. How do you possibly type a lifetime of experiences, observations, and knowledge and still stay within the character limits of this forum? (Not to mention the fact that I don't even have the time.) I think I'm just going to have to settle for trying to give you good advice and try to answer your questions in the best way I can. There's so many things I feel that I had to know and learn to get where I am, but I have to apologize because I just couldn't possibly relate it all without knowing you personally. Maybe I can help point you in the right direction and if you work hard then you'll take what you think is useful and be able to learn the rest.

Just to try to somewhat lessen the backlash from the indignant people who only value political correctness, I'm going to state up front that I'm only speaking of the *majority* of heterosexual masculine men and heterosexual feminine women.

Men and women are different, period, no matter what modern society has told you or would like you to believe. If you assume that women think, act, and talk just like you do, then I believe that your relationship will fail or you will end up living together as roommates like I discussed earlier (and you also will not be able to determine which girls you should bother pursuing). You must learn how to interact with and interpret women and how to fulfill their needs. You must learn what your role as a man is in a relationship and help your significant other to find out what her role is. A woman's willingness and desire to change and grow as a person trumps all other possible qualities she may or may not have (next is her intelligence/ability to determine which things need to be changed). Likewise, your willingness to change and grow as a person is just as important, if not more.

Learn what the true difference is between feminine and masculine (and by this I don't mean all the stupid sh*t that people associate with feminine and masculine, like whether or not you like sports or if you walk around acting all tough and threatening people or how a person looks or if you happen to like fashion or the ballet. That kind of stupid bullsh*t has nothing to do with either feminine or masculine). Then assimilate all that is *truly* masculine into yourself and pursue all that is *truly* feminine. Learn that there is nothing wrong or bad (quite the contrary) with being a masculine man who desires feminine women no matter what popular belief might tell you. Learn the differences between male and female sexuality. Erase all shame and guilt that society has taught you that you should have about male sexuality and/or masculinity in general and how that manifests (or should manifest) in you. Learn to be sensitive to female sexuality and how to encourage and satisfy female sexuality IN THE WAY THAT FEMALE SEXUALITY WORKS. Be responsible, not just for you but for everyone and everything. This means that you should try to never allow yourself to be the victim. Get over your fears, including fears about relationships and rejection. Courage is not a lack of fear, but rather your ability to overcome any amount of fear. Stop giving a sh*t what society thinks (this doesn't include your significant other, of course). Good self-esteem is considered by society to be arrogance when said aloud. Humility is something you do only for the benefit of others. Self-deprecating b*llshit has no place in your words and even less of a place in your thoughts. YOU ARE WORTHY, so internalize that and move..the...f*ck...on and f*ck anyone else who tells you differently! (All of that being said, learn the balance between good self-esteem and being an @sshole. Being masculine also means being charming.) Learn what it means to be charming. Discover what you want in life, be responsible enough to take it into your own hands and learn what you need to and then GO GET IT! Being a man means that you should stop letting yourself get discouraged.

"Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better."
Samuel Beckett

Failing is a part of life and will happen to you again and again, so stop letting it get to you. No one ever achieves any great success without failing again and again. This is also true in relationships.

The whole purpose of dating is to find a potential wife. Do not date people that do not have wife potential and are incapable of learning how to fulfill your needs. Dishonest and manipulative (and generally sh*tty) women who do not have your same relationship goals in mind have similar qualities to other similarly sh*tty women. Learn to recognize those qualities and avoid those women. Learn about the infatuation stage of relationships. Learn the difference between infatuation and actual love. Realize that ALL relationships have an infatuation stage and that infatuation is chemical, biological, and automatic rather than purposeful, directional, and logical as love is. Infatuation is immediate and stagnant whereas love takes time and grows as it is built upon. DO NOT make any long-term commitments when you or the girl with you is in the infatuation stage. Realize that all infatuation WILL end at some point and true love will either grow or fail AFTER the infatuation has ended. The average time span for the infatuation stage is two years, so this is why you should never date people who do not have long-term potential.

Every idea I've shared goes so much deeper than the things I've said and there's a million other things to say, but hopefully these give you a starting point of some of the ideas you should probably know.
neptune1bond
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6/23/2014 9:23:08 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Oh, I almost forgot. Do not take advice on being a man or masculinity from women as a general rule (unless they are an INCREDIBLY insightful woman). I spent a very large portion of my life trying to be what women said that they wanted only to end up in the friend-zone when I was dating. There are many specific biological and scientific reasons that this happens (which I won't bother going into). Women (especially in modern society) generally don't have any clue what it means to be a man no matter how much some of them may SCREAM the contrary. Also, beware of the common beliefs on subjects of dating and relationships. General knowledge and popular beliefs generally lead to mediocre relationships (at best).
Such
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6/23/2014 10:39:30 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/22/2014 1:12:23 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Women...

I'm so sick of getting my hopes up, only to be let down when they fail to meet my standards.

I'm looking for answers from men more experienced than me in the relationship department (long-term relationships).

1) Did you wife/fiancee meet your standards?

2) If not, what was it about her that balanced out her shortcomings?

3) Who is the dominant one in the relationship? It seems to me that for really long-term commitments, it's always the girls who wear the pants.

4) How did you know she was the one? Like, seriously, what set her above any other girl in this world?

I ask these questions because when it comes to women, I am only good in short-term relationships. I want to be good in long-term relationships too. I'm at the age where I need lengthy relationships to practice the domesticated life-style before I actually marry someone - but every relationship I enter ends up getting ruined by them fvcking up in some way or another. So is there a common theme between the one's that you guys have settled for? This is what I am hoping to find out.

Thank you ahead of time for answering if you do. Please be honest, I am really being serious in this thread and am literally depressed for the first time in over a year. I'm losing faith in women and mating altogether, I don't like this at all.

How do your relationships end up ruined?
R0b1Billion
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6/23/2014 11:44:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/22/2014 1:12:23 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Women...

I'm so sick of getting my hopes up, only to be let down when they fail to meet my standards.

You're the one who gets your hopes up. Don't do that.

I'm looking for answers from men more experienced than me in the relationship department (long-term relationships).

1) Did you wife/fiancee meet your standards?

No. Nobody will meet your standards. I've created threads on DDO before about what your standards are for your potential mate. The lists I get are f***ing ridiculous. My own list is ridiculous. I am an intellectual, a musician, and an athlete. I am fun and like to party. The chances of me meeting an attractive, single woman who can keep up with me in athletics, is musically-inclined, and can hold her own while discussing science and philosophy, all while being fun enough to party it up with is about zero.

2) If not, what was it about her that balanced out her shortcomings?

Your realization at how naive your expectations were to begin with. Your realization at how small you really are, and how stupid you are to expect more out of somebody else in ways that, when it really comes down to it, don't matter.

3) Who is the dominant one in the relationship? It seems to me that for really long-term commitments, it's always the girls who wear the pants.

There are dom and sub personalities. I'm not totally one or the other myself, but I do tend towards sub. If you dig deep inside and decide you are one or the other, you will do well with the opposite. Your stereotype about the woman wearing the pants is obviously worthless. As far as the applicability of all this, there is none... part of the courting ritual is settling this out. You won't even know you've settled it until you realize it in retrospect.

4) How did you know she was the one? Like, seriously, what set her above any other girl in this world?

You don't. Part of the human condition is faith. You might make a mistake and let a really good one go, or hold on much too long to somebody who is not worthy.

I ask these questions because when it comes to women, I am only good in short-term relationships. I want to be good in long-term relationships too. I'm at the age where I need lengthy relationships to practice the domesticated life-style before I actually marry someone - but every relationship I enter ends up getting ruined by them fvcking up in some way or another. So is there a common theme between the one's that you guys have settled for? This is what I am hoping to find out.

Sounds like you're the one with the problem. You can't blame society for not being good enough for you, you can only blame yourself for not selecting the right one. When in doubt, just get more picky. You'll never be too picky for Mrs. Right, so there's no risk in it. Also, if you're busy screwing with dumb hoes, you won't be available when the right one comes around.

Thank you ahead of time for answering if you do. Please be honest, I am really being serious in this thread and am literally depressed for the first time in over a year. I'm losing faith in women and mating altogether, I don't like this at all.

Just get comfortable with being single and independent. If you follow that path, the rest will fall into line. If you feel that time is running out, you will make a bad decision. I'm 33 and I'm single, and I've resigned myself to waiting as long as it takes. Maybe I'll die before I meet somebody. I'm comfortable with that scenario, not because it is ideal, but because I have to be. You can't look for the right one, especially when you have standards as high as you and I have. You have to wait a really long time until somebody exceptional presents herself. You can work to increase those odds, however, by getting into a good career and being active in the community. I haven't done too well in these last two departments myself, which is perhaps why I am still alone.
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Jikpamu
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6/23/2014 12:22:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Proverbs 19:14 (New International Version 2011)
Pr 19:14 Houses and wealth are inherited from parents, but a prudent wife is from the LORD.

So true in my case. God gave me a great wife. I would surely be dead right now if it were not for my wife who God gave to me : )

See also Proverbs 31:10-31 on the wife of noble character...
Jikpamu: Conservative "Libertarian" Born-Again Bible-Believing Christian
I am against homosexuality, gay marriage, and abortion (particularly abortion).
I am for anything Jesus and the Bible : )
Blade-of-Truth
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6/23/2014 1:42:15 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Neptune, thank you so much.

When it comes to Soul Mates, I think I look for one because I like the idea of having one somewhere in this world. I don't believe I've always known that I have one though, nor do I remember thinking about it nearly as early as you did. As weird as this is going to sound, I'm kind of relieved after hearing your own experience and realizing that I might not have one after all. The thought that one was out there and I can't find her was driving me mad. I think it's time for me to just let go of that idea, which is a weight lifted off my shoulders.

I've often thought that perhaps I am not meant for love as this lifetime's experience, although I AM curious... was your belief that she was your soul-mate reciprocated by her? Like, did she feel the same way and if so, did she make that known to you? I know you said she feels the same way and tells you that, but I mean like specifically in regard to the 'soul-mate' feelings.

When it comes to masculinity and femininity I've always felt confident in myself. I'm charming when I want to be, and quite easily too. I'm chivalrous, and often listen rather than bicker. At the same time though, I am dominating, controlling, and tend to succumb to jealousy. What has worked best for me are girls who are smart but also submissive, truly good-hearted and extremely patient. My biggest fault is that I lack trust in women. Somehow, I need to get over that. I've yet to find a woman worth trusting though, they have all lied to me at one point or another and I tend not to give second chances. Maybe I should.... idk. Maybe I do need to learn to be more sensitive.

When it comes to that love triangle I was in at one point it was more complex than I let on. The first girl is a childhood friend that I spent my summers with, we became very close romantically eventually. The second girl I met on a cruise and it was instant infatuation. We were inseparable. Both girls I thought were my soul-mate. Problem is that both girls live on opposite sides of the country as me. When I am in the area, they drop whatever local guy they are with and will be with me the whole time. But then, a few weeks after leaving, they are both back to dating their local guy. I don't get it. I really really don't get it aside from the thought that they just have needs that I can't satisfy from across the country. We are all also young though. I'm 24, both of them are 22. I would tell both of them 'love you' whenever getting off the phone and they'd say the same thing - usually even before I would. So I always thought them dating other guys locally when I'm away was karma for me loving both of them at the same time, although now I see it might be nothing more than infatuation in both cases.

I also apologize about that last question regarding if she deserves my love/can get better love elsewhere. That was my attempt at being humble. I personally believe my love is beyond words, but because I feel so deeply - I've been hurt extremely deeply. As they say, the higher the highs the lower the lows. I tend to detach or disassociate from my own emotions in most cases, but that wasn't working for me either because then I wasn't feeling much of anything. I once had a girl tell me that she didn't deserve my love and that I deserved much better than her. That she just wanted to have fun still which turned out to be nothing more than going to music concerts and sharing sleeping bags with guys in tents (she is a 'free spirit' apparently).

What is the difference between a girl and a woman? What makes a girl ready to build a life with a man? Am I simply chasing something that I won't find in girls within my age group (early 20's)?

In terms of friend-zone, the exact opposite actually usually happens to me. I'll sleep with them incredibly fast, I can't tell you how many times I've heard "I swear I never do this!" from girls who have given it up in like 3 dates or even after the first date. The problem is that none of those relationships have lasted longer than 3 months. So, that isn't the right approach clearly. Another weird thing that happens to me is I get calls from girls that I know but who are dating other guys. The second they break up with these guys they call me. I've literally been used as a rebound 4 times against my own doing. Usually guys prey on girls after they break up but nope, these girls freaking sent me texts or messages on FB asking ME out. The problem was that even though I saw right through it and knew what they were doing - I was cool with it. Obviously those never lasted after a few weeks. Literally every time those things ended with, "Ok, time for you to be single now that I've fvcked the ex out of you" and then usually those girls would move on to find long-term boyfriends.

It's my fault because in those days I cared only for sex. Now that I want something more I find that I'm basically retarded in terms of understanding how long-term relationships work because I always preferred the chase and release rather than the catch and keep. (if that makes sense)

I appreciate all your advice though! I look forward to hearing your responses, and thank you again.
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Blade-of-Truth
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6/23/2014 1:44:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/23/2014 10:39:30 AM, Such wrote:
At 6/22/2014 1:12:23 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Women...

I'm so sick of getting my hopes up, only to be let down when they fail to meet my standards.

I'm looking for answers from men more experienced than me in the relationship department (long-term relationships).

1) Did you wife/fiancee meet your standards?

2) If not, what was it about her that balanced out her shortcomings?

3) Who is the dominant one in the relationship? It seems to me that for really long-term commitments, it's always the girls who wear the pants.

4) How did you know she was the one? Like, seriously, what set her above any other girl in this world?

I ask these questions because when it comes to women, I am only good in short-term relationships. I want to be good in long-term relationships too. I'm at the age where I need lengthy relationships to practice the domesticated life-style before I actually marry someone - but every relationship I enter ends up getting ruined by them fvcking up in some way or another. So is there a common theme between the one's that you guys have settled for? This is what I am hoping to find out.

Thank you ahead of time for answering if you do. Please be honest, I am really being serious in this thread and am literally depressed for the first time in over a year. I'm losing faith in women and mating altogether, I don't like this at all.

How do your relationships end up ruined?

I catch them in a lie. I realize they have a quality I can't see myself dealing with for the rest of my life. They cheat. I cheat. She joins a sorority and whores out. She wants to move to another state while I'm still in college here. She's in another state already. Those are the reasons so far... and that's not a full list, just immediate examples.
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Blade-of-Truth
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6/23/2014 1:56:17 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/23/2014 11:44:05 AM, R0b1Billion wrote:
At 6/22/2014 1:12:23 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Women...

I'm so sick of getting my hopes up, only to be let down when they fail to meet my standards.

You're the one who gets your hopes up. Don't do that.

Stoicism?

I'm looking for answers from men more experienced than me in the relationship department (long-term relationships).

1) Did you wife/fiancee meet your standards?

No. Nobody will meet your standards. I've created threads on DDO before about what your standards are for your potential mate. The lists I get are f***ing ridiculous. My own list is ridiculous. I am an intellectual, a musician, and an athlete. I am fun and like to party. The chances of me meeting an attractive, single woman who can keep up with me in athletics, is musically-inclined, and can hold her own while discussing science and philosophy, all while being fun enough to party it up with is about zero.

2) If not, what was it about her that balanced out her shortcomings?

Your realization at how naive your expectations were to begin with. Your realization at how small you really are, and how stupid you are to expect more out of somebody else in ways that, when it really comes down to it, don't matter.

Interesting perspective, I can appreciate what you are saying. Sucks though. Although I suppose it's my fault for viewing it as a sucky thing.

3) Who is the dominant one in the relationship? It seems to me that for really long-term commitments, it's always the girls who wear the pants.

There are dom and sub personalities. I'm not totally one or the other myself, but I do tend towards sub. If you dig deep inside and decide you are one or the other, you will do well with the opposite. Your stereotype about the woman wearing the pants is obviously worthless. As far as the applicability of all this, there is none... part of the courting ritual is settling this out. You won't even know you've settled it until you realize it in retrospect.

I'm dominating. Always have been. When I tell people I want a girl that is submissive they call me a sociopath or a-hole.

4) How did you know she was the one? Like, seriously, what set her above any other girl in this world?

You don't. Part of the human condition is faith. You might make a mistake and let a really good one go, or hold on much too long to somebody who is not worthy.

I see.

I ask these questions because when it comes to women, I am only good in short-term relationships. I want to be good in long-term relationships too. I'm at the age where I need lengthy relationships to practice the domesticated life-style before I actually marry someone - but every relationship I enter ends up getting ruined by them fvcking up in some way or another. So is there a common theme between the one's that you guys have settled for? This is what I am hoping to find out.

Sounds like you're the one with the problem. You can't blame society for not being good enough for you, you can only blame yourself for not selecting the right one. When in doubt, just get more picky. You'll never be too picky for Mrs. Right, so there's no risk in it. Also, if you're busy screwing with dumb hoes, you won't be available when the right one comes around.

I stopped being a man-whore about 15 months ago. Thinking it'd allow for the right one to come along. I was wrong in thinking that; it hasn't happened. I feel I'm too picky as it is, but I also know that so far I've been mostly limited to America women. There is still a whole world out there with women whom I might prefer.

Thank you ahead of time for answering if you do. Please be honest, I am really being serious in this thread and am literally depressed for the first time in over a year. I'm losing faith in women and mating altogether, I don't like this at all.

Just get comfortable with being single and independent. If you follow that path, the rest will fall into line. If you feel that time is running out, you will make a bad decision. I'm 33 and I'm single, and I've resigned myself to waiting as long as it takes. Maybe I'll die before I meet somebody. I'm comfortable with that scenario, not because it is ideal, but because I have to be. You can't look for the right one, especially when you have standards as high as you and I have. You have to wait a really long time until somebody exceptional presents herself. You can work to increase those odds, however, by getting into a good career and being active in the community. I haven't done too well in these last two departments myself, which is perhaps why I am still alone.

I'm comfortable with being single, what I'm not comfortable with is the fact that I don't know jack about long-term relationships. I don't want to meet the "right" one and fvck it up but I guess that's the beautiful risk when playing the game of love.

I do need to put myself in situations where the chances to meet someone closer to my standards are higher. I appreciate your words. Thanks for sharing!
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Such
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6/23/2014 2:58:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/23/2014 1:44:41 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:

I catch them in a lie. I realize they have a quality I can't see myself dealing with for the rest of my life. They cheat. I cheat. She joins a sorority and whores out. She wants to move to another state while I'm still in college here. She's in another state already. Those are the reasons so far... and that's not a full list, just immediate examples.

Well, that's just the nature of dating. Long-term relationships are pretty few and far between as it is. Finding someone that you want to spend all your time with, or your life with, is a rarity, and not everyone gets the privilege.

Things like what you mentioned are typical, You're likely going to encounter that again a few times, too. However, it could also be the sort of women that you avail yourself. Or, your standards could be unrealistic. Like, you catch them in a lie? Everyone you ever meet is going to lie to you. That's just people. Was the lie that big of a deal every time?

And, what sort of characteristic would you have trouble dealing with for the rest of your life? That's pretty vague, too. If you're talking about nail-biting or chewing in an annoying way while eating, but you otherwise love the person, perhaps you're just being an assshole? But, you don't give any details, so there's no way of really knowing.

In any case, being domestic isn't something that you can practice, really. I've lived with a few people, on a platonic level, on a romantic level, and even on a professional level, and it was very different in every situation and with every different person for similar situations. You're not really going to be able to practice, per se. The best you can do is understand how to accommodate their needs while getting your needs attended to, and what you'll be flexible about (you'll clean the kitchen, but not the bathroom, for example, Idk). But, the point is that if you find "the one" (or whatever), it isn't going to require years of experience and a strong resume to get her. You'll be fine just the way you are, if you're really ready.

But, the point is, you have to be really ready, and so does she.
neptune1bond
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6/23/2014 4:29:59 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/23/2014 1:42:15 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
Neptune, thank you so much.

When it comes to Soul Mates, (etc.) the same way and tells you that, but I mean like specifically in regard to the 'soul-mate' feelings.
Yes, she knew it too, but it works differently for feminine women. Men are meant to be the pursuers. She always valued love and had an intuition for what that meant and she also knew that she was meant to be with a specific person, kinda like me, but the natural state of things is for men to search and for women to be found. That's why I completely disagree with Rob1Billion. If you aren't searching for the girl who will complete you, you will never find her. So if you decide to settle into being single, then be prepared to be that way for a long time. Also realize that you are still very young, but all the good girls are being taken as we speak. When you start reaching your 30s and 40s the pickings will be slim. So you've got to get off your @ss and go find your girl starting now!

When it comes to masculinity and (etc.). Maybe I should.... idk. Maybe I do need to learn to be more sensitive.
Masculinity and femininity go so very much deeper. There is a masculine way to be "sensitive", but if you become feminine then women will never respect you and your problems will get worse. Dominating and controlling others is not what it means to be masculine. Being masculine is (among many things) about being a good leader. A good leader realizes that he is responsible for the others around him and fully accepts that responsibility. He cares for them, but is extremely laid back in his leadership. He allows others to make their own choices (EVERY TIME) but *guides* those choices for the happiness and well-being of all. Learn to be laid back in everything. Oh, and btw, you're right about the trust issues. Love can never exist where there is no trust. At the same time, you must find women who are worthy of being trusted. Also realize that everyone screws up at times and the societal idea that men are even the majority of screw ups is ridiculous. But realize that you will never find a girl that won't screw up (and often). As a man, her screw ups become your responsibility. it is your job to fix the relationship. None of this applies to deal-breakers, though. Learn the difference between deal-breakers that end the relationship and even serious offenses that you must immediately forgive.

When it comes (etc.) in both cases.
I'm going to be honest. Long term relationships only have the POTENTIAL to work when a marriage-level commitment has been established and both people love each other in a way that doesn't diminish over time. The only girlfriend-type relationship that you should bother to keep around when they are planning on moving is the one where the girl loves you enough to choose you over whatever her moving reasons are and STAY. If the girl cannot place the relationship as priority over living apart, then break it off and move on. Also realize that you shouldn't have to coerce someone to stay with you, so don't try. If a women is deciding to leave your relationship (not just moving to a different location, but also moving on to other guys and such), then break it off and move on. You only want to be with someone who actually wants to be with you. Other than basic courting, you should never have to convince a woman to stay with you. If they love you, they will stay of their own accord (this refers to choosing not to cheat on you as well). Women's actions are usually far more important then their words (pay extra attention to those last words). Men tend to say what they mean, but this is rarely so with women. Remember when I said that if you assume that women think, act, and talk the same as you, that you are bound to fail? Those two women have given you their answer so move on. Don't be afraid to let go at these times. Realize that women use men just as much (if not more) than men supposedly use women. There are billions of women out there, you only need to find one. Also, you can only build a relationship with ONE girl (unless you happen to be polyamorous, which is not consistent with what you have told me and in which case you need to find women who are also polyamorous. But I'll continue assuming that isn't the case). If you try and do anything else other than build a love with ONE woman, you will fail.

I also apologize about that (etc.) (she is a 'free spirit' apparently).
Women say lines like,"I don't deserve your love" when breaking up in order to avoid responsibility for the shitty choice they are about to make. She didn't actually feel that way, even though she's unintentionally correct in saying that she doesn't deserve you. (Remember what I said about women's actions being more important than what they say?) Don't bother getting all broken up over the women who don't have wife potential. They're not worth the emotions. If you internalize every rejection and use it as an excuse to hold back, then you will never succeed. You have to give it your ALL!

Btw, men are emotional beings. You have every right to feel and you should feel or you will fail. But being a man also means frequently putting others emotions ahead of yours. The reason men have more of an ability to swallow their emotions is because they must be able to put them aside to handle the woman's emotions so that they can then handle their own emotions later. If you shut off your emotions completely, at any time, you also will lose all empathy. Without empathy, you can never fulfill a woman's needs and therefor you are no longer being a man and are avoiding your responsibility as a man.

What is the difference (etc.) my age group (early 20's)?
There is little difference between girls and women (look up the term "neoteny", it's extremely important). They're not like men in that regard. Although you want to find a woman with marriage potential, realize that ultimately the relationship and it's potential success is your responsibility. As a man, you must accept that responsibility or you will be responsible for your pain AND hers. Woman are human beings and men are "human doings". Women have value simply because they are and men have value only by virtue of what they do. Mother nature, being the evil b*tch that she is, has set it up this way, but this simple unfortunate truth cannot be avoided.

In terms of friend-zone, (etc.) the chase and release rather than the catch and keep. (if that makes sense)
Those women are actually using you, which is sometimes worse than being friend-zoned. Realize that the ideas that women do not desire sex and that sex is some "gift" that women bestow upon men and that men must work for, etc., is all BULLSH*T! If a girl actually "doesn't normally do this" in regards to sex, then she wouldn't actually BE DOING IT! (Remember what I said about what girls say in comparison to their actions?) For every guy that gets laid, there is a woman who is putting out. For every guy that has a one-night-stand there is a woman who is also having a one-night-stand. The very nature of sex requires two people, and so women are having sex JUST AS MUCH AS MEN! Women say certain things to avoid responsibility for their sexual choices in order to save face. You sleep with the slutty girls, but you usually only bring the nice girls home to meet mom and dad. Remember what I said about how girls are meant to be pursued and men are meant to pursue? Women that put out easily will do so again later without struggle when another man pursues them, EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE WITH YOU! There are exceptions, but generally, if a woman does not demand your respect sexually, then you cannot afford (emotionally) to give her your respect, relationship-wise. If a woman demands your respect sexually and even puts out later after you've been dating a while, then that's o.k. Women must demand your respect in order to earn your respect.
neptune1bond
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6/23/2014 4:44:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago

Well, that's just the nature of dating. Long-term relationships are pretty few and far between as it is. Finding someone that you want to spend all your time with, or your life with, is a rarity, and not everyone gets the privilege.

I have to disagree with this statement. Long-term relationships are made, they are not something that happens to you. The only reason that amazing long term relationships are not more frequent is because of people do not accept responsibility for themselves and the results that they have created for themselves. It is a "privilege" that you EARN through hard work and tenacity. In fact, the very nature of privilege is that it must be earned. People and fate will rarely give us privileges that we didn't earn and we have no right to expect privilege without putting forth the efforts required. When people talk about "bad luck" and such, it is really simply an effort to avoid responsibility for the results that they have achieved through their own actions and poor choices. People who take complete responsibility for themselves and the results they achieve will never be trod upon and will always eventually succeed. In addition, people who take complete responsibility for others, as well as themselves, are the true heroes in every story, even in real life. This is what being a man is all about.
Such
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6/24/2014 9:33:01 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/23/2014 4:44:19 PM, neptune1bond wrote:

Well, that's just the nature of dating. Long-term relationships are pretty few and far between as it is. Finding someone that you want to spend all your time with, or your life with, is a rarity, and not everyone gets the privilege.

I have to disagree with this statement. Long-term relationships are made, they are not something that happens to you. The only reason that amazing long term relationships are not more frequent is because of people do not accept responsibility for themselves and the results that they have created for themselves. It is a "privilege" that you EARN through hard work and tenacity. In fact, the very nature of privilege is that it must be earned. People and fate will rarely give us privileges that we didn't earn and we have no right to expect privilege without putting forth the efforts required. When people talk about "bad luck" and such, it is really simply an effort to avoid responsibility for the results that they have achieved through their own actions and poor choices. People who take complete responsibility for themselves and the results they achieve will never be trod upon and will always eventually succeed. In addition, people who take complete responsibility for others, as well as themselves, are the true heroes in every story, even in real life. This is what being a man is all about.

Well, I wasn't necessarily saying that long-term relationships are the result of arbitrary circumstance, but I do disagree that they're a certainty with enough hard work. Some people are just more fortunate than others -- this is certain. Likewise, some people are generally less fortunate than the norm. It may seem unfair, but that's just how life is. Generally speaking, there will be circumstances that just seem wrong or "unfair." However, fairness only works in terms of treatment and decision-making. Circumstances, on the other hand, are amoral -- they simply are. But, that doesn't mean that everyone is on the same playing field.

So, yes -- in order to have and keep a long-term relationship, there requires effort, introspection, and humility. It also requires a bit of luck. Sometimes, it just doesn't work out. This is why it's best to keep your options and eyes open. You never know when that opportunity will come, nor how many times you'll get it.

There's something interesting about falling in love, though, that I don't think I touched on, but is perhaps, the most important.

Often, those that end up meaning the most to you, and who you spend your life with (or wish you did) aren't perfect -- they're instead the ones who's imperfections you wholeheartedly accept.
neptune1bond
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6/24/2014 2:25:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 6/24/2014 9:33:01 AM, Such wrote:

Well, I wasn't necessarily saying that long-term relationships are the result of arbitrary circumstance, but I do disagree that they're a certainty with enough hard work. Some people are just more fortunate than others -- this is certain. Likewise, some people are generally less fortunate than the norm. It may seem unfair, but that's just how life is. Generally speaking, there will be circumstances that just seem wrong or "unfair." However, fairness only works in terms of treatment and decision-making. Circumstances, on the other hand, are amoral -- they simply are. But, that doesn't mean that everyone is on the same playing field.

So, yes -- in order to have and keep a long-term relationship, there requires effort, introspection, and humility. It also requires a bit of luck. Sometimes, it just doesn't work out. This is why it's best to keep your options and eyes open. You never know when that opportunity will come, nor how many times you'll get it.

There's something interesting about falling in love, though, that I don't think I touched on, but is perhaps, the most important.

Often, those that end up meaning the most to you, and who you spend your life with (or wish you did) aren't perfect -- they're instead the ones who's imperfections you wholeheartedly accept.

Well, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I've had extremely unfair circumstances in my own life but I took complete responsibility for my circumstances and I overcame. My life has been fraught with crippling failures and horrible circumstances (my wife's has too, btw). I rarely was on the same playing field as others in my own life, but when things went horrible I fixed them instead of blaming them on luck or circumstance. In fact, when most people talk about their bad luck I've noticed that almost every time their failure has to do with the choices that they made and their way of handling the situation that has been dealt to them. I will never buy into the idea that my circumstances (or anyone else's) are just a matter of fate, because in my experience that's incredibly far from "how life is". I've always found that the most successful people in life don't believe in luck and it's also interesting to note that the most successful people in life usually come from the absolute worst circumstances. So. maybe that's how life *feels* like it is for you, but it's never been my circumstance or something I've ever observed and that most certainly is not because I (or the people I've seen ) am/are lucky. In fact, I am so very very far from lucky. Things don't just work out for me of their own accord, not just in my relationship, but in my life in general. My wife and I chose to become the people we are and we chose the relationship we have. If you want to believe that it was luck, then you can, but on the other hand I happen to actually know all the many many things we had to change, deal with, and overcome to make our relationship what it is today. And everything we had to do was a CHOICE, if we left any part of it to luck then it wouldn't have happened and we would've been divorced a long time ago. People choose who they are and what they will do and those things are the sole determining factors in what your relationship will be. Almost every failure I've witnessed has to do with ignorance of how to deal with the circumstance. Bad circumstances simply mean that a person has a little bit more to overcome, that's all.

It's kinda interesting to notice how the people who overcome and continually (or eventually) find success in life are the ones who don't believe in fate or luck and the ones who are unsuccessful are usually people who believe in fate and circumstance. In real life, people who continually fail at relationships will make the same mistakes over and over and the people who succeed long term all have similar traits. My experience has been (not only in my relationship, but in observing other's relationships as well) that the outcomes of the vast majority of relationships are predictable if you have enough insight into how relationships and male to female interaction works. Science and academia, in and of itself, is the very idea that similar actions and similar circumstances yield completely consistent results. What you say simply is not consistent with what we as a society have found to ALWAYS be the case from a scientific stand point (that all outcomes are predictable and consistent). Permanent and/or automatic failure simply does not exist unless you say it does because you only need to learn from your mistakes and try again. A person who believes in fate doesn't bother to actually analyze their mistakes, but rather they simply say "oh well, I guess it wasn't meant to be" and then give up, which they will then feel "confirms" their beliefs that they just have "bad luck". Either that or when they fail and because they believe in fate they will not learn what their mistakes were and just do the same thing again "hoping" that fate will give them a different outcome (and, again, confirming their beliefs). Failure is absolutely intrinsic to the very mindset of fate and luck and therefor will yield fairly consistent results. What you do determines the outcome, not fate, and all scientific observation and study is consistent with that. Even marriage counselors and psychiatrists can tell you that the results are incredibly consistent with people's choices and that there are mounds of evidence that confirms those trends. If such a thing weren't true, then there wouldn't be marriage counselors and psychiatrists in the first place, because who in the hell would pay for them if they couldn't create results if such things were fate?

Even when your relationship fails because of the poor choices of your partner, then that's still a result of someone's choices rather than fate. Even then, the answer for you or me is simple. Learn how to choose people who know how to make relationships work and have an incredible desire to have a long-term relationship. It isn't that hard to recognize the traits that people have and the potential success of your relationship with them with a little observation and conversation if you know how. That's the whole point of dating in the first place, to discover the relationship potential. If someone thinks that it's just to find someone they happen to like or to see if tingly butterfly feelings happen to occur, then of course they will fail, they are then leaving it up to fate! In fact, the reason that fate and luck will always let you down in the long run is because absolutely everything is completely reliant on the CHOICES YOU MAKE! The very idea of fate leads you to bad choices because when you believe that it is completely out of your hands it removes any and all incentive to make good choices in the first place. Why bother worrying about your choices when it's ultimately decided by fate?