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To USAF or not to USAF

PotBelliedGeek
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8/19/2014 1:02:34 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Despite working three jobs and receiving federal aid + scholarships, I am faced with the undeniable fact that as things are right now, I cannot afford to finish school. Desperate for options, I am considering whipping myself into shape and joining the the USAF. They will provide me with an excellent salary and pay for my schooling all the way through PhD. I can easily join as a 1st lieutenant.

My family are religiously and morally opposed to the idea, and doing so will result in excommunication from the family and community I grew up in. It will also result in an indefinite break from my schooling and budding career.

What do my DDO friends think? You lot are the most intelligent and logical group of people that I know.
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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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8/19/2014 1:20:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Is a PhD worth being a pariah?

Are student loans out of the picture?
Can you not slow down schooling and work?
Can you not cut expenses?
Can you not get a "good" job, which helps with schooling?

Why are they opposed to the military? Or is it just in the killing, which you are highly unlikely to do in the USAF?
My work here is, finally, done.
JohnMaynardKeynes
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8/19/2014 1:23:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 1:02:34 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Despite working three jobs and receiving federal aid + scholarships, I am faced with the undeniable fact that as things are right now, I cannot afford to finish school. Desperate for options, I am considering whipping myself into shape and joining the the USAF. They will provide me with an excellent salary and pay for my schooling all the way through PhD. I can easily join as a 1st lieutenant.

My family are religiously and morally opposed to the idea, and doing so will result in excommunication from the family and community I grew up in. It will also result in an indefinite break from my schooling and budding career.

What do my DDO friends think? You lot are the most intelligent and logical group of people that I know.

Wow, that is...intense.

I'm not the biggest fan of cost-benefit analyses because qualitative factors are almost arbitrary, but I'll try anyway:

Pros and Cons of joining USAF

Pros
(1) You get to finish your PhD -- qualitative and quantitative
(2) Great salary -- quantitative
(3) 1st lieutenant role (I know nothing about USAF, but I guess that's a Pro?) -- both quant and qual

Cons
Your family is opposed to it -- mostly qualitative, but a giant qualitative
Break from school and career (can you explain why this is?)

So if we weighed all the Pros and Cons equally, judging from what you wrote, the Pros would win out. But the first Con is quite substantial, and could honestly be enough to sway your decision to no. I know that you didn't want someone to come in and basically say, "it depends on what you value most," but at this point with such limited information I hardly know what else I could possibly say. I wish there were some other alternative, and there may in fact be one, but unfortunately with the current rigged student-loan system, I can't just say "take out loans and bankrupt yourself till you're 40!" so it becomes increasingly complex.

I apologize if I wasn't much help..
~JohnMaynardKeynes

"The sight of my succulent backside acts as a sedative for the beholder. It soothes the pain of life and makes all which hurts seem like bliss. I urge all those stressed by ridiculous drama on DDO which will never affect your real life to gaze upon my cheeks for they will make you have an excitement and joy you've never felt before." -- Dr. Dennybug

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JohnMaynardKeynes
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8/19/2014 1:25:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Oh, another large qualitative is that you get to continue to do what you love, but that could be weighed down if you're forced to take a break.
~JohnMaynardKeynes

"The sight of my succulent backside acts as a sedative for the beholder. It soothes the pain of life and makes all which hurts seem like bliss. I urge all those stressed by ridiculous drama on DDO which will never affect your real life to gaze upon my cheeks for they will make you have an excitement and joy you've never felt before." -- Dr. Dennybug

Founder of the BSH-YYW Fan Club
Founder of the Barkalotti
Stand with Dogs and Economics
PotBelliedGeek
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8/19/2014 1:25:56 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 1:20:33 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Is a PhD worth being a pariah?

To me, yes.


Are student loans out of the picture?

Yes

Can you not slow down schooling and work?

Not feasibly. My skill set is very focused. Either I continue schooling until I can get a decent job in my field, or I get an entry-level/minimum wage job in another field.

Can you not cut expenses?

Already wearing hand-me-downs, borrowing books, and living off of PB&J. Dont really see how to cut them more without living out of my car.

Can you not get a "good" job, which helps with schooling?

Wanna help me look? I've been searching for years, anticipating this point.

Why are they opposed to the military? Or is it just in the killing, which you are highly unlikely to do in the USAF?

Religious reasons. Very zealous people.
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Khaos_Mage
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8/19/2014 1:49:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 1:25:56 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 8/19/2014 1:20:33 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Is a PhD worth being a pariah?

To me, yes.
Then hopefully they'll understand that and/or get over themselves.
Can you not slow down schooling and work?

Not feasibly. My skill set is very focused. Either I continue schooling until I can get a decent job in my field, or I get an entry-level/minimum wage job in another field.

Any contracts with companies? Like, for schooling, you'll give them X years of service? Longshot, but who knows.


Can you not cut expenses?

Already wearing hand-me-downs, borrowing books, and living off of PB&J. Dont really see how to cut them more without living out of my car.

Do you live at home? If not, can you get a roommate or two?

Can you not get a "good" job, which helps with schooling?

Wanna help me look? I've been searching for years, anticipating this point.
UPS in my state helps pay for schooling, or at least it did.

Why are they opposed to the military? Or is it just in the killing, which you are highly unlikely to do in the USAF?

Religious reasons. Very zealous people.
Doesn't really answer it, but whatever.

--------
You could try a kickstarter thing.
Fundme.com
Try to go online for venture capitilists, and see if any of them would pay upfront for return later.
My work here is, finally, done.
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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8/19/2014 2:07:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 1:20:33 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Is a PhD worth being a pariah?

Yes.

Are student loans out of the picture?

Financing a Ph.D. is a horrible idea, but there are ways to secure funding beyond that.

Can you not slow down schooling and work?
Can you not cut expenses?
Can you not get a "good" job, which helps with schooling?

Why are they opposed to the military? Or is it just in the killing, which you are highly unlikely to do in the USAF?
Tsar of DDO
Khaos_Mage
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8/19/2014 2:13:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 2:07:51 PM, YYW wrote:
At 8/19/2014 1:20:33 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Is a PhD worth being a pariah?

Yes.

Are student loans out of the picture?

Financing a Ph.D. is a horrible idea, but there are ways to secure funding beyond that.

Can you not slow down schooling and work?
Can you not cut expenses?
Can you not get a "good" job, which helps with schooling?

Why are they opposed to the military? Or is it just in the killing, which you are highly unlikely to do in the USAF?

Why is it worth being a pariah, but not going into debt for?
Either one has a substantial cost.
My work here is, finally, done.
PotBelliedGeek
Posts: 4,298
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8/19/2014 4:30:42 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 1:49:30 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 8/19/2014 1:25:56 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 8/19/2014 1:20:33 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Is a PhD worth being a pariah?

To me, yes.
Then hopefully they'll understand that and/or get over themselves.

Nope. My step-dad raised his kids believing "Never love someone too much, because you might have to hate them one day". His idea of people he has to hate are people that go against his religious convictions.

Can you not slow down schooling and work?

Not feasibly. My skill set is very focused. Either I continue schooling until I can get a decent job in my field, or I get an entry-level/minimum wage job in another field.

Any contracts with companies? Like, for schooling, you'll give them X years of service? Longshot, but who knows.

Long shot indeed. I have been looking hard, never came across anything like that besides the military.


Can you not cut expenses?

Already wearing hand-me-downs, borrowing books, and living off of PB&J. Dont really see how to cut them more without living out of my car.

Do you live at home? If not, can you get a roommate or two?

I live at home.


Can you not get a "good" job, which helps with schooling?

Wanna help me look? I've been searching for years, anticipating this point.
UPS in my state helps pay for schooling, or at least it did.

Thanks, I will look into it.


Why are they opposed to the military? Or is it just in the killing, which you are highly unlikely to do in the USAF?

Religious reasons. Very zealous people.
Doesn't really answer it, but whatever.

It is literally that. They follow a branch teaching that to join the US military is to wage war on God.


--------
You could try a kickstarter thing.
Fundme.com
Try to go online for venture capitilists, and see if any of them would pay upfront for return later.

Thanks, I will look into it. Although, i'd probably sooner do the USAF than that.
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PotBelliedGeek
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8/19/2014 4:39:44 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 1:23:55 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 1:02:34 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Despite working three jobs and receiving federal aid + scholarships, I am faced with the undeniable fact that as things are right now, I cannot afford to finish school. Desperate for options, I am considering whipping myself into shape and joining the the USAF. They will provide me with an excellent salary and pay for my schooling all the way through PhD. I can easily join as a 1st lieutenant.

My family are religiously and morally opposed to the idea, and doing so will result in excommunication from the family and community I grew up in. It will also result in an indefinite break from my schooling and budding career.

What do my DDO friends think? You lot are the most intelligent and logical group of people that I know.

Wow, that is...intense.


I'm not the biggest fan of cost-benefit analyses because qualitative factors are almost arbitrary, but I'll try anyway:

Pros and Cons of joining USAF

Pros
(1) You get to finish your PhD -- qualitative and quantitative
(2) Great salary -- quantitative
(3) 1st lieutenant role (I know nothing about USAF, but I guess that's a Pro?) -- both quant and qual

It is a pro, very much so.


Cons
Your family is opposed to it -- mostly qualitative, but a giant qualitative
Break from school and career (can you explain why this is?)

Officer school, BMT, and a tour of duty before I start school again.



So if we weighed all the Pros and Cons equally, judging from what you wrote, the Pros would win out. But the first Con is quite substantial, and could honestly be enough to sway your decision to no. I know that you didn't want someone to come in and basically say, "it depends on what you value most," but at this point with such limited information I hardly know what else I could possibly say. I wish there were some other alternative, and there may in fact be one, but unfortunately with the current rigged student-loan system, I can't just say "take out loans and bankrupt yourself till you're 40!" so it becomes increasingly complex.

I apologize if I wasn't much help..
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JohnMaynardKeynes
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8/19/2014 4:43:43 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 4:39:44 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:

Judging from that, I can tell you what I would do which would be to say yes to USAF. But that's of course easier said than done, especially when I'm not directly in your place so I don't know what exactly is going through your mind.
~JohnMaynardKeynes

"The sight of my succulent backside acts as a sedative for the beholder. It soothes the pain of life and makes all which hurts seem like bliss. I urge all those stressed by ridiculous drama on DDO which will never affect your real life to gaze upon my cheeks for they will make you have an excitement and joy you've never felt before." -- Dr. Dennybug

Founder of the BSH-YYW Fan Club
Founder of the Barkalotti
Stand with Dogs and Economics
PotBelliedGeek
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8/19/2014 4:44:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 4:43:43 PM, JohnMaynardKeynes wrote:
At 8/19/2014 4:39:44 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:

Judging from that, I can tell you what I would do which would be to say yes to USAF. But that's of course easier said than done, especially when I'm not directly in your place so I don't know what exactly is going through your mind.

Thank you. I really appreciate your opinion.
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bluesteel
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8/19/2014 4:51:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 1:25:56 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 8/19/2014 1:20:33 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Is a PhD worth being a pariah?

To me, yes.


Are student loans out of the picture?

Yes

Can you not slow down schooling and work?

Not feasibly. My skill set is very focused. Either I continue schooling until I can get a decent job in my field, or I get an entry-level/minimum wage job in another field.


Can you not cut expenses?

Already wearing hand-me-downs, borrowing books, and living off of PB&J. Dont really see how to cut them more without living out of my car.

Can you not get a "good" job, which helps with schooling?

Wanna help me look? I've been searching for years, anticipating this point.

Why are they opposed to the military? Or is it just in the killing, which you are highly unlikely to do in the USAF?

Religious reasons. Very zealous people.

I say go for it. You can't give up your dreams just because your family objects. If the question were whether you should marry someone they objected to, most people would instantly say yes because that situation has been romanticized so often in literature. But this situation is even more practical -- you need a PhD and this is the only way to get one. You'll also have a lot of career benefits from being in the USAF.

Advice is kind of meaningless though. It comes down to how highly you value family vs. how highly you value your career and life objectives. You have to balance them. I don't really know your situation. I would hope your family would eventually get over it, but I can't possibly know that. But there are probably a lot of things you could do that you would piss them off, since they are so religious. I don't think you can live your whole life by trying not to piss people off. That's an impossible existence.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
YamaVonKarma
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8/19/2014 5:04:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 1:02:34 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Despite working three jobs and receiving federal aid + scholarships, I am faced with the undeniable fact that as things are right now, I cannot afford to finish school. Desperate for options, I am considering whipping myself into shape and joining the the USAF. They will provide me with an excellent salary and pay for my schooling all the way through PhD. I can easily join as a 1st lieutenant.

My family are religiously and morally opposed to the idea, and doing so will result in excommunication from the family and community I grew up in. It will also result in an indefinite break from my schooling and budding career.

What do my DDO friends think? You lot are the most intelligent and logical group of people that I know.

They're how I plan to pay for my Criminal Justice schooling... so the benefits are very good. You really need to ask if you're willing to go to war. Doing something like the ROTC won't have you sign a contract, but I believe the actual USAF academies do. If you're thinking on just joining as an enlisted, you'll start off as an E-1. I believe you'd also take the ASVAB (it doesn't really make a difference for E-1's)

Start: E-1
6 months time in service: E-2
16 months time in service (10 months as an E-2): E-3
36 months time in service (20 months as an E-3): E-4
After E-4, the promotion process becomes competitive between you and your peers and there is no guarantee you will be promoted an any given rate

Note: I'm planning on doing JROTC so I'll be kicked up to E-3. If you can, I'd recommend this route. With each level, pay varies.

Benefits:
Meals paid for, room and board paid for, no student loans.

Cons:
You will have to serve some time.

Source: Plans on becoming a member of the USAF MP.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
PotBelliedGeek
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8/19/2014 7:27:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 2:13:31 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 8/19/2014 2:07:51 PM, YYW wrote:
At 8/19/2014 1:20:33 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
Is a PhD worth being a pariah?

Yes.

Are student loans out of the picture?

Financing a Ph.D. is a horrible idea, but there are ways to secure funding beyond that.

Can you not slow down schooling and work?
Can you not cut expenses?
Can you not get a "good" job, which helps with schooling?

Why are they opposed to the military? Or is it just in the killing, which you are highly unlikely to do in the USAF?

Why is it worth being a pariah, but not going into debt for?
Either one has a substantial cost.

I can deal with the first because ultimately azsholes can go f*ck themselves, even if they are family. The debt I am adverse to because it is a bottomless pit.
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Khaos_Mage
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8/19/2014 7:41:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 7:27:53 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:

I can deal with the first because ultimately azsholes can go f*ck themselves, even if they are family. The debt I am adverse to because it is a bottomless pit.

Fair enough with the former, but how bottomless is a PhD?
What is the cost for happiness and financial success (which I assume PhD will give you)?
My work here is, finally, done.
PotBelliedGeek
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8/19/2014 7:43:46 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 7:41:51 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 8/19/2014 7:27:53 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:

I can deal with the first because ultimately azsholes can go f*ck themselves, even if they are family. The debt I am adverse to because it is a bottomless pit.

Fair enough with the former, but how bottomless is a PhD?
What is the cost for happiness and financial success (which I assume PhD will give you)?

Like I will be retired before I stop paying bottomless. It is an option, but one to be considered only after all else.
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Khaos_Mage
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8/19/2014 7:46:51 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 7:43:46 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 8/19/2014 7:41:51 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 8/19/2014 7:27:53 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:

I can deal with the first because ultimately azsholes can go f*ck themselves, even if they are family. The debt I am adverse to because it is a bottomless pit.

Fair enough with the former, but how bottomless is a PhD?
What is the cost for happiness and financial success (which I assume PhD will give you)?

Like I will be retired before I stop paying bottomless. It is an option, but one to be considered only after all else.

I'll trust you know better than I.
But, just make sure you are looking at earning potential, and only the amount you need to finish the degree.
You are already 3 years in, right, so only 4 more years, with only part of that needing to be borrowed?

Also, can you work for the school for lowered tuition? Might be better "pay" than working elsewhere.
My work here is, finally, done.
Dennybug
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8/19/2014 11:05:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 1:02:34 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Despite working three jobs and receiving federal aid + scholarships, I am faced with the undeniable fact that as things are right now, I cannot afford to finish school. Desperate for options, I am considering whipping myself into shape and joining the the USAF. They will provide me with an excellent salary and pay for my schooling all the way through PhD. I can easily join as a 1st lieutenant.

My family are religiously and morally opposed to the idea, and doing so will result in excommunication from the family and community I grew up in. It will also result in an indefinite break from my schooling and budding career.

What do my DDO friends think? You lot are the most intelligent and logical group of people that I know.

You gotta do what you gotta do.

The moths depend on you.
LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
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8/21/2014 5:34:12 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 1:02:34 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Despite working three jobs and receiving federal aid + scholarships, I am faced with the undeniable fact that as things are right now, I cannot afford to finish school. Desperate for options, I am considering whipping myself into shape and joining the the USAF. They will provide me with an excellent salary and pay for my schooling all the way through PhD. I can easily join as a 1st lieutenant.

My family are religiously and morally opposed to the idea, and doing so will result in excommunication from the family and community I grew up in. It will also result in an indefinite break from my schooling and budding career.

What do my DDO friends think? You lot are the most intelligent and logical group of people that I know.

Ask yourself these 5 questions:

1. Is financial success more important to you that family?
2. Would you be willing to risk death or risk killing another human in a wartime situation in order to achieve financial success?
3. As you seem to be quite overweight (just being honest), is it a realistic goal for you to lose enough weight to join the Air Force?
4. How's your eyesight?
5. As you are a Muslim, would you be willing to participate as a soldier in a war against a Muslim nation, or perhaps take part in a military operation to capture or destroy the city of Mecca or Medina?
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sadolite
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8/21/2014 9:08:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
If I were you I would wait until new leadership takes over this country. As it stands now you will be sent to fight wars you can not win even if you could. Your death would be for not should you die in battle nor would the people you gave the ultimate sacrifice for care.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Illegalcombatant
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8/22/2014 4:50:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 1:02:34 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Despite working three jobs and receiving federal aid + scholarships, I am faced with the undeniable fact that as things are right now, I cannot afford to finish school. Desperate for options, I am considering whipping myself into shape and joining the the USAF. They will provide me with an excellent salary and pay for my schooling all the way through PhD. I can easily join as a 1st lieutenant.

My family are religiously and morally opposed to the idea, and doing so will result in excommunication from the family and community I grew up in. It will also result in an indefinite break from my schooling and budding career.

What do my DDO friends think? You lot are the most intelligent and logical group of people that I know.

I think it's a sick joke that you like alot of us are put into situations where we are pretty much screwed.

Then again that's kind of the point of the system now isn't it ? The more desperate some one is the easier it is to control them.
"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12
Blade-of-Truth
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8/24/2014 2:02:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/19/2014 1:02:34 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
Despite working three jobs and receiving federal aid + scholarships, I am faced with the undeniable fact that as things are right now, I cannot afford to finish school. Desperate for options, I am considering whipping myself into shape and joining the the USAF. They will provide me with an excellent salary and pay for my schooling all the way through PhD. I can easily join as a 1st lieutenant.

My family are religiously and morally opposed to the idea, and doing so will result in excommunication from the family and community I grew up in. It will also result in an indefinite break from my schooling and budding career.

What do my DDO friends think? You lot are the most intelligent and logical group of people that I know.

I think that regardless it is never bad to become physically fit. Do you have what it takes to earn the respect of the troops you would be commanding as a 1st lieutenant? You have to consider the alpha males that would fight you for dominance. I would.
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