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Friendship between Men & Women is sex-driven.

Blade-of-Truth
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8/21/2014 12:45:12 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
The limit of the topic title does not give justice to the actual premise I'm proposing.

The actual premise is that there is, on balance, usually one party more invested in the friendship than as just a friend.

The premise being argued would only apply to friendships between heterosexual males and females.

Would you disagree with the premise? If so, why?
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ESocialBookworm
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8/21/2014 1:13:10 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
Life is sex-driven.
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Wylted
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8/21/2014 1:15:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
I know, every female I associate with there is some flirty thing always going on, but a lot of those women I would never ever consider having sex with.
Benshapiro
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8/21/2014 3:50:42 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 12:45:12 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The limit of the topic title does not give justice to the actual premise I'm proposing.

The actual premise is that there is, on balance, usually one party more invested in the friendship than as just a friend.

The premise being argued would only apply to friendships between heterosexual males and females.

Would you disagree with the premise? If so, why?

It depends. In some cases it's true and in others it isn't. It really depends on the person.
TheGreatAndPowerful
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8/21/2014 6:35:20 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 12:45:12 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The limit of the topic title does not give justice to the actual premise I'm proposing.

The actual premise is that there is, on balance, usually one party more invested in the friendship than as just a friend.

The premise being argued would only apply to friendships between heterosexual males and females.

Would you disagree with the premise? If so, why?

Disagree. Because most people don't define their relationships with members of the opposite sex based on the probability that a penis will, at some point, enter a vagina. This is probably a phenomenon limited to teenagers and early 20-somethings, comprising only about 16% of the population.
Adam_Godzilla
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8/21/2014 7:00:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 12:45:12 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The limit of the topic title does not give justice to the actual premise I'm proposing.

The actual premise is that there is, on balance, usually one party more invested in the friendship than as just a friend.

The premise being argued would only apply to friendships between heterosexual males and females.

Would you disagree with the premise? If so, why?

Not all of the girls I have as friends are hot or sexually attractive. Only one is and yes it is sex driven. But for all the others, it's just normal friendship. They are very average looking to the point where imagining them sexually takes effort.
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PotBelliedGeek
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8/21/2014 10:40:54 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 12:45:12 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The limit of the topic title does not give justice to the actual premise I'm proposing.

The actual premise is that there is, on balance, usually one party more invested in the friendship than as just a friend.

The premise being argued would only apply to friendships between heterosexual males and females.

Would you disagree with the premise? If so, why?

Disagree, anecdote.
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The_Immortal_Emris
Posts: 474
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8/21/2014 10:45:37 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 1:15:32 AM, Wylted wrote:
I know, every female I associate with there is some flirty thing always going on, but a lot of those women I would never ever consider having sex with.

This is called an example of narcissism.
The_Immortal_Emris
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8/21/2014 10:50:07 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 12:45:12 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The limit of the topic title does not give justice to the actual premise I'm proposing.

The actual premise is that there is, on balance, usually one party more invested in the friendship than as just a friend.

The premise being argued would only apply to friendships between heterosexual males and females.

Would you disagree with the premise? If so, why?

I entirely disagree.

I have a number of female friends who, while very attractive, are not individuals I would choose to have sex with, nor is my friendship with them driven by a desire to have sex with them at any point.

I like them, because they are cool people.

To believe all interactions between men and women must be fueled and influenced by sex, is to play into the Patriarchal indoctrination which overly sexualizes interactions between men and women.

I work in an office with nothing but women. They are wonderful people, and they are my friends. I do not wish to have sex with any of them.

I have a lovely childhood friend who is a model, she is very beautiful, but I do NOT want to have sex with her. It would be like sleeping with a sister.

I actively try to help her meet single, nice guys. Nothing about our friendship is driven by a desire to have sex.

Further, the resolution you have presented also neglects to consider asexual and non-binary individuals.
The_Immortal_Emris
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8/21/2014 10:50:40 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 6:35:20 AM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 8/21/2014 12:45:12 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The limit of the topic title does not give justice to the actual premise I'm proposing.

The actual premise is that there is, on balance, usually one party more invested in the friendship than as just a friend.

The premise being argued would only apply to friendships between heterosexual males and females.

Would you disagree with the premise? If so, why?

Disagree. Because most people don't define their relationships with members of the opposite sex based on the probability that a penis will, at some point, enter a vagina. This is probably a phenomenon limited to teenagers and early 20-somethings, comprising only about 16% of the population.

Well said. Quoted to emphasize.
Truth_seeker
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8/21/2014 11:47:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 12:45:12 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The limit of the topic title does not give justice to the actual premise I'm proposing.

The actual premise is that there is, on balance, usually one party more invested in the friendship than as just a friend.

The premise being argued would only apply to friendships between heterosexual males and females.

Would you disagree with the premise? If so, why?

I would disagree, just because i have friends whom i find physically attractive does not mean i will have sex or even date them regardless of religion, race, ethnicity, etc. . For some cases, it's true, but ultimately, it does not mean that i stopped considering them as a friend. I had a couple of friendships which did not evolve into a relationship as i hoped, but nevertheless, we are very close friends and that satisfies me. I also commit myself to making the friendship into a relationship work, but some of my female friends back out.
Wylted
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8/21/2014 1:12:36 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 10:45:37 AM, The_Immortal_Emris wrote:
At 8/21/2014 1:15:32 AM, Wylted wrote:
I know, every female I associate with there is some flirty thing always going on, but a lot of those women I would never ever consider having sex with.

This is called an example of narcissism.

How would me saying that I'd never have sex with some of my female friends an example of narcissism?
The_Immortal_Emris
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8/21/2014 1:15:26 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 1:12:36 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 8/21/2014 10:45:37 AM, The_Immortal_Emris wrote:
At 8/21/2014 1:15:32 AM, Wylted wrote:
I know, every female I associate with there is some flirty thing always going on, but a lot of those women I would never ever consider having sex with.

This is called an example of narcissism.

How would me saying that I'd never have sex with some of my female friends an example of narcissism?

Oh it's not the latter half which is the example of narcisism, (though it is an example of arrogance),

"I know, every female I associate with there is some flirty thing always going on",

Every female? Even your mother? Gross.

And also narcissistic. Or the projection of your personal denial.

From reading your posts, I would deduce you've never had sex with anyone, and wouldn't know the first thing about flirtation.
Material_Girl
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8/21/2014 2:45:28 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Gross. Now I'll never be able to speak to my guy friends again.
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Blade-of-Truth
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8/21/2014 2:54:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 3:50:42 AM, Benshapiro wrote:
At 8/21/2014 12:45:12 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The limit of the topic title does not give justice to the actual premise I'm proposing.

The actual premise is that there is, on balance, usually one party more invested in the friendship than as just a friend.

The premise being argued would only apply to friendships between heterosexual males and females.

Would you disagree with the premise? If so, why?

It depends. In some cases it's true and in others it isn't. It really depends on the person.

Yes, that really is the main issue that I found as well. That's why I included "on balance", it was my hope that if a comprehensive study or commonality is found via other's experiences that it would give proof to the premise. This is a tricky one though because it really is relative to one's own experiences and then sharing such experiences honestly to see if it is a commonly repeated phenomenon. The, on balance, would be the saving grace as long as I can show that it is more common for the premise to be accurate than false. If it is, then the "on balance" would champion its validity.
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Blade-of-Truth
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8/21/2014 2:57:55 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 6:35:20 AM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 8/21/2014 12:45:12 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The limit of the topic title does not give justice to the actual premise I'm proposing.

The actual premise is that there is, on balance, usually one party more invested in the friendship than as just a friend.

The premise being argued would only apply to friendships between heterosexual males and females.

Would you disagree with the premise? If so, why?

Disagree. Because most people don't define their relationships with members of the opposite sex based on the probability that a penis will, at some point, enter a vagina. This is probably a phenomenon limited to teenagers and early 20-somethings, comprising only about 16% of the population.

I could agree with that assessment. I don't think it would be necessarily them defining there relationships on that probability, but more so along the lines of the "friendzone" factor where they are attracted to their friend of the opposite sex as more than just a friend. That attraction might not necessarily imply they only desire or define the relationship based on sex, but just the fact that if the opportunity came up they would desire to take the relationship to something greater than just a platonic friendship.
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Blade-of-Truth
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8/21/2014 3:02:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 7:00:28 AM, Adam_Godzilla wrote:
At 8/21/2014 12:45:12 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The limit of the topic title does not give justice to the actual premise I'm proposing.

The actual premise is that there is, on balance, usually one party more invested in the friendship than as just a friend.

The premise being argued would only apply to friendships between heterosexual males and females.

Would you disagree with the premise? If so, why?

Not all of the girls I have as friends are hot or sexually attractive. Only one is and yes it is sex driven. But for all the others, it's just normal friendship. They are very average looking to the point where imagining them sexually takes effort.

I'd agree. I too have female friends that I don't find sexually attractive. But can you also speak on their behalf that they might not have those feelings secretly for you? In my experience, it's usually the girl who has a secret attraction for me when it's the case that I don't find them attractive in a sexual way. I won't know this until much later though. Like if we lose contact and then randomly get to catch up at a social gathering, I've had more than one joke about how they had a crush on me but that I never made the move when we'd hangout. (It's cause I didn't find them attractive, obviously)

Would you say the premise ultimately holds up though or no? I think what it needs is proof and that's hard for something like this that is based off of individual experience and the chance of a commonality to be found between other's experiences.
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Blade-of-Truth
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8/21/2014 3:04:40 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 10:40:54 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 8/21/2014 12:45:12 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The limit of the topic title does not give justice to the actual premise I'm proposing.

The actual premise is that there is, on balance, usually one party more invested in the friendship than as just a friend.

The premise being argued would only apply to friendships between heterosexual males and females.

Would you disagree with the premise? If so, why?

Disagree, anecdote.

So you disagree because the proof can only be found in one's own experiences?

I'd agree that that is a fair point for disagreeing. But wouldn't it hold as long as I can find the proof, or does it still fail due to not having a way to guarantee one's own account of these experiences cannot be truly verified?
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Blade-of-Truth
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8/21/2014 3:23:39 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 10:50:07 AM, The_Immortal_Emris wrote:
At 8/21/2014 12:45:12 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The limit of the topic title does not give justice to the actual premise I'm proposing.

The actual premise is that there is, on balance, usually one party more invested in the friendship than as just a friend.

The premise being argued would only apply to friendships between heterosexual males and females.

Would you disagree with the premise? If so, why?

I entirely disagree.

I have a number of female friends who, while very attractive, are not individuals I would choose to have sex with, nor is my friendship with them driven by a desire to have sex with them at any point.

Yes but would the very fact that you find them attractive be a sex-driven observation? I can totally agree that you'd be friends with them because they are cool (response to your next statement), as that is the case in my own experiences as well. And although my friendship isn't driven by a desire to have sex with them, if the opportunity arose to bring our friendship to the next level, would I not do it even though I am attracted to her? I just find that not to be my own case. So it begs the question, should the opportunity arise and your attractive female friend profess her feelings towards you in a manner stronger than just a friend, would you not reciprocate if you were free to do so? (Free to do so = single).

I like them, because they are cool people.

To believe all interactions between men and women must be fueled and influenced by sex, is to play into the Patriarchal indoctrination which overly sexualizes interactions between men and women.

I said "on balance", not "all". Would you not agree that if taking the effect of "on balance" into consideration it would affect your position on the validity of the premise? Surely you do not believe this premise to be so bold as to claim "all" friendships are.

I work in an office with nothing but women. They are wonderful people, and they are my friends. I do not wish to have sex with any of them.

Understandable. But there are alot of additionaly dynamics at play in this scenario you present. Such as, are some of the women already married hence immediately knocking them out of the pool of possibilities? Are you single? Are they of the appropriate age in relation to your own? You see what I'm saying?

I'm totally down to work through this premise with you, I mean that was the whole intent on my creating this thread. But first we'd need to clarify some things in that scenario because it's too broad for consideration at this point when the premise is worded with "on balance".

I have a lovely childhood friend who is a model, she is very beautiful, but I do NOT want to have sex with her. It would be like sleeping with a sister.

This is a much better example, and one that would then negate the premise if true. I would however be cautious of granting you this, because first we would need to analyze if she shares the same sentiments as you in regards to the friendship being more like a familial relation.

For example, if she came to you and professed that she always found you attractive and that she believes your friendship serves as the perfect foundation to build a family of your own upon - would you deny her these things if you were freely capable of providing them?

I actively try to help her meet single, nice guys. Nothing about our friendship is driven by a desire to have sex.

I can understand that completely. You desire to see her end up in a happy, fruitful relationship with a man you deem suitable. That's what a good friend does, and I can fully respect that. I'm going to wait to see what your response is to the scenario I posed above though before granting this point fully.

Further, the resolution you have presented also neglects to consider asexual and non-binary individuals.

I do believe I said Heterosexual friendships only. I don't think that would then broaden the scope of this premise to those two groups you present. Why do you believe it would?
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Blade-of-Truth
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8/21/2014 3:30:31 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 11:47:35 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 8/21/2014 12:45:12 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The limit of the topic title does not give justice to the actual premise I'm proposing.

The actual premise is that there is, on balance, usually one party more invested in the friendship than as just a friend.

The premise being argued would only apply to friendships between heterosexual males and females.

Would you disagree with the premise? If so, why?

I would disagree, just because i have friends whom i find physically attractive does not mean i will have sex or even date them regardless of religion, race, ethnicity, etc. .

Having sex or dating them is not something that has to be *done* for a friendship to be sex-driven. It can simply be a desire, hope, opportunity, dream, or attraction. Those things don't have to manifest into actions for it to be a sex-driven friendship.

For some cases, it's true, but ultimately, it does not mean that i stopped considering them as a friend. I had a couple of friendships which did not evolve into a relationship as i hoped, but nevertheless, we are very close friends and that satisfies me.

You wouldn't need to stop considering them as a friend, but perhaps I miss the point so if you clarify what you meant it'd be appreciated. I will say those, the fact that you hoped in those cases only affirms my premise, and the fact that you were able to remain friends does nothing to negate it.

I also commit myself to making the friendship into a relationship work, but some of my female friends back out.

This, again, only helps to affirm my premise.
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Blade-of-Truth
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8/21/2014 3:31:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 2:45:28 PM, Material_Girl wrote:
Gross. Now I'll never be able to speak to my guy friends again.

Don't say gross just yet. The premise is still in the process of DDO scrutiny. We shall see where it falls with time.
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TheGreatAndPowerful
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8/21/2014 3:38:33 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 2:57:55 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/21/2014 6:35:20 AM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 8/21/2014 12:45:12 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The limit of the topic title does not give justice to the actual premise I'm proposing.

The actual premise is that there is, on balance, usually one party more invested in the friendship than as just a friend.

The premise being argued would only apply to friendships between heterosexual males and females.

Would you disagree with the premise? If so, why?

Disagree. Because most people don't define their relationships with members of the opposite sex based on the probability that a penis will, at some point, enter a vagina. This is probably a phenomenon limited to teenagers and early 20-somethings, comprising only about 16% of the population.

I could agree with that assessment. I don't think it would be necessarily them defining there relationships on that probability, but more so along the lines of the "friendzone" factor where they are attracted to their friend of the opposite sex as more than just a friend. That attraction might not necessarily imply they only desire or define the relationship based on sex, but just the fact that if the opportunity came up they would desire to take the relationship to something greater than just a platonic friendship.

Yeah, unrequited feelings happens all the time.
PotBelliedGeek
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8/21/2014 4:16:06 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 3:04:40 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/21/2014 10:40:54 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 8/21/2014 12:45:12 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The limit of the topic title does not give justice to the actual premise I'm proposing.

The actual premise is that there is, on balance, usually one party more invested in the friendship than as just a friend.

The premise being argued would only apply to friendships between heterosexual males and females.

Would you disagree with the premise? If so, why?

Disagree, anecdote.

So you disagree because the proof can only be found in one's own experiences?

I'd agree that that is a fair point for disagreeing. But wouldn't it hold as long as I can find the proof, or does it still fail due to not having a way to guarantee one's own account of these experiences cannot be truly verified?

No, I disagree, and the reason I disagree is anecdotal. This is an issue that is really impossible to prove one way or the other, because any and all data that might be gathered on the subject will be anecdotal/self-reports.
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Blade-of-Truth
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8/21/2014 4:24:32 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 4:16:06 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 8/21/2014 3:04:40 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/21/2014 10:40:54 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 8/21/2014 12:45:12 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The limit of the topic title does not give justice to the actual premise I'm proposing.

The actual premise is that there is, on balance, usually one party more invested in the friendship than as just a friend.

The premise being argued would only apply to friendships between heterosexual males and females.

Would you disagree with the premise? If so, why?

Disagree, anecdote.

So you disagree because the proof can only be found in one's own experiences?

I'd agree that that is a fair point for disagreeing. But wouldn't it hold as long as I can find the proof, or does it still fail due to not having a way to guarantee one's own account of these experiences cannot be truly verified?

No, I disagree, and the reason I disagree is anecdotal. This is an issue that is really impossible to prove one way or the other, because any and all data that might be gathered on the subject will be anecdotal/self-reports.

Yes, but are you suggesting that there is no way or means to get accurate reports from such people? If there are, then I wouldn't agree that it is an impossible premise to affirm.
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PotBelliedGeek
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8/21/2014 4:29:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 4:24:32 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/21/2014 4:16:06 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 8/21/2014 3:04:40 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/21/2014 10:40:54 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 8/21/2014 12:45:12 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The limit of the topic title does not give justice to the actual premise I'm proposing.

The actual premise is that there is, on balance, usually one party more invested in the friendship than as just a friend.

The premise being argued would only apply to friendships between heterosexual males and females.

Would you disagree with the premise? If so, why?

Disagree, anecdote.

So you disagree because the proof can only be found in one's own experiences?

I'd agree that that is a fair point for disagreeing. But wouldn't it hold as long as I can find the proof, or does it still fail due to not having a way to guarantee one's own account of these experiences cannot be truly verified?

No, I disagree, and the reason I disagree is anecdotal. This is an issue that is really impossible to prove one way or the other, because any and all data that might be gathered on the subject will be anecdotal/self-reports.

Yes, but are you suggesting that there is no way or means to get accurate reports from such people? If there are, then I wouldn't agree that it is an impossible premise to affirm.

Self reported data is always unreliable and at best provides an extremely vague picture of what might be out there.
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Blade-of-Truth
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8/21/2014 5:11:53 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 4:29:07 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 8/21/2014 4:24:32 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/21/2014 4:16:06 PM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 8/21/2014 3:04:40 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/21/2014 10:40:54 AM, PotBelliedGeek wrote:
At 8/21/2014 12:45:12 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The limit of the topic title does not give justice to the actual premise I'm proposing.

The actual premise is that there is, on balance, usually one party more invested in the friendship than as just a friend.

The premise being argued would only apply to friendships between heterosexual males and females.

Would you disagree with the premise? If so, why?

Disagree, anecdote.

So you disagree because the proof can only be found in one's own experiences?

I'd agree that that is a fair point for disagreeing. But wouldn't it hold as long as I can find the proof, or does it still fail due to not having a way to guarantee one's own account of these experiences cannot be truly verified?

No, I disagree, and the reason I disagree is anecdotal. This is an issue that is really impossible to prove one way or the other, because any and all data that might be gathered on the subject will be anecdotal/self-reports.

Yes, but are you suggesting that there is no way or means to get accurate reports from such people? If there are, then I wouldn't agree that it is an impossible premise to affirm.

Self reported data is always unreliable and at best provides an extremely vague picture of what might be out there.

If that's the case, I suspect you doubt every story a friend of yours has ever told you correct?
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LogicalLunatic
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8/21/2014 5:20:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 12:45:12 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The limit of the topic title does not give justice to the actual premise I'm proposing.

The actual premise is that there is, on balance, usually one party more invested in the friendship than as just a friend.

The premise being argued would only apply to friendships between heterosexual males and females.

Would you disagree with the premise? If so, why?

Fathers and daughters? Brothers and sisters?
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Blade-of-Truth
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8/21/2014 5:32:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 5:20:38 PM, LogicalLunatic wrote:
At 8/21/2014 12:45:12 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
The limit of the topic title does not give justice to the actual premise I'm proposing.

The actual premise is that there is, on balance, usually one party more invested in the friendship than as just a friend.

The premise being argued would only apply to friendships between heterosexual males and females.

Would you disagree with the premise? If so, why?

Fathers and daughters? Brothers and sisters?

I wouldn't consider familial relationships to be the same as friendships built up between people who were originally strangers.
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Wylted
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8/21/2014 6:05:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 8/21/2014 1:15:26 PM, The_Immortal_Emris wrote:
At 8/21/2014 1:12:36 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 8/21/2014 10:45:37 AM, The_Immortal_Emris wrote:
At 8/21/2014 1:15:32 AM, Wylted wrote:
I know, every female I associate with there is some flirty thing always going on, but a lot of those women I would never ever consider having sex with.

This is called an example of narcissism.

How would me saying that I'd never have sex with some of my female friends an example of narcissism?

Oh it's not the latter half which is the example of narcisism, (though it is an example of arrogance),


"I know, every female I associate with there is some flirty thing always going on",

Every female? Even your mother? Gross.

And also narcissistic. Or the projection of your personal denial.

From reading your posts, I would deduce you've never had sex with anyone, and wouldn't know the first thing about flirtation.

Yes, even with my mom. Read up on Freud and you'll see what I mean. The rest of that is just you being a d!ck to me for some unknown reason. I've been getting a lot of that on here lately, and for the life of me I can't figure out why.

The fact that every female friend I have is a little flirty with me is just a statement of fact. I'm sure that not all of them would be willing to engage in sex with me either. The part about me being at least somewhat selective about my sexual partners is also a statement of fact and in no way implies that I'm narcissistic.

I'm not denying being one, but the tgings you mention are in no way correlated with that.