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Can anyone explain transgenderism? TGs only

Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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10/2/2014 11:50:50 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
So, to my understanding, a trans woman is a male body that identifies as a woman.

What does this mean, exactly?
What does a woman feel like internally?

Is it a desire to be a female body, or something else?
How does it differ from just being effeminate?
This boggles my mind, and I would prefer insight only from those that are transgender.
My work here is, finally, done.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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10/3/2014 1:05:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 12:55:31 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
bump

Why don't you just PM kbub? You know full well she's the only person that will give you a good answer to this question.
Khaos_Mage
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10/3/2014 1:13:09 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/3/2014 1:07:12 PM, Wylted wrote:
I'm not saying she is TG (I have no clue honestly), but this seems to be her thing.

It does, and if she wants to enlighten me she can.
I'm sure a few people I could PM to try to get answers, but I thought an open discussion would be welcome.
My work here is, finally, done.
Defro
Posts: 847
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10/4/2014 1:24:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 11:50:50 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
So, to my understanding, a trans woman is a male body that identifies as a woman.

What does this mean, exactly?
What does a woman feel like internally?


Is it a desire to be a female body, or something else?
How does it differ from just being effeminate?
This boggles my mind, and I would prefer insight only from those that are transgender.

Living in Thailand, I actually have a few transgender friends.

There are two types of gays: the hard gays who look like men and the transgenders

The answers to your questions actually vary from person to person. I've asked my gay and transgender friends these exact same question and they give different answers.

Some of them were effeminate since they were young and others weren't. Being effeminate doesn't have much to do with their choice to become transgender half the time.

Some of them become transgender simply because they were transexual from the start. They desire to be females and they hate being males. One of my transgender friends is so girly it's absurd. She's even girlier than actual girls. She's like an exaggeration of a cartoon female. She screams in very high pitch man voices and walks like a female model. But she's not acting like this, this is her real self.

Others do it because they want to look pretty and attractive in the eyes of males. They could care less if they were born males. The only reason they care is because the people they are attracted to care. And being transgender actually works sometimes. Once, when I was buying snacks from 7-11, I noticed that the cashier was stunningly attractive. I couldn't keep my eyes off her. And then she said in this really deep man voice, "Do you want that in a bag?" and the illusion faded and I became disgusted. But I would not have found her attractive to begin with if she hadn't become transgender.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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10/4/2014 11:39:51 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 11:50:50 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
This boggles my mind, and I would prefer insight only from those that are transgender.

How many transgender people do you know frequent DDO?
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Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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10/4/2014 11:44:13 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/4/2014 11:39:51 AM, Danielle wrote:
At 10/2/2014 11:50:50 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
This boggles my mind, and I would prefer insight only from those that are transgender.

How many transgender people do you know frequent DDO?

I don't, but does it hurt to ask?
I don't learn anything if I don't ask, do I?
My work here is, finally, done.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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10/4/2014 11:55:36 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/4/2014 11:44:13 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
I don't, but does it hurt to ask?
I don't learn anything if I don't ask, do I?

No, you should ask, and I think someone speaking from personal experience would absolutely provide a very unique and introspective insight that could shed a lot more light on this question and identity than the rest of us can through speculation. I just think that limiting the responses to that demographic will yield you little (if any) results.

Personally, I've thought a lot about these questions and had a few more add-on questions - such as exploring the link between being transexual and gay, since not all those who identify as trans are gay. I've also explored the possibility that many gay people might in fact be trans in some way hormonally but I digress.

Anyway, I have a handful of friends who identify as transgender so I know a little about their experience based on similar questions I have asked them. I was also forced to take a bunch of classes on sexuality and gender as part of a Women's College program I was in at Rutgers. I have some feedback, especially as it pertains to sex vs. gender, but I don't identify as trans myself. If any trans people do happen to respond to this, keep in mind that not everyone's experience is exactly the same. Most transgender people do in fact feel they were born in the "wrong body" and identify as the opposite sex, while for some they simply feel the opposite gender and not necessarily the opposite sex (so they are okay with their body as-is). A lot of terms in this conversation are used interchangeably which can get confusing.
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LogicalLunatic
Posts: 1,633
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10/4/2014 3:29:19 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 11:50:50 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
So, to my understanding, a trans woman is a male body that identifies as a woman.

What does this mean, exactly?
What does a woman feel like internally?


Is it a desire to be a female body, or something else?
How does it differ from just being effeminate?
This boggles my mind, and I would prefer insight only from those that are transgender.

I'm not trans, but I know what the case is with Transgender "Females".

These people lust after the female body, as well as after the femininity of women's clothing. It's both a bodily and psychological pleasure. They often assume that if they become a female, that femininity that they like will become part of them. That is, all they have to do is look at any part of their own body and they see a woman, and they will find pleasure in it.
Of course, that part of them which they would need to maintain this kind of sexual pleasure is a penis. If you simply dress up as a woman, you have both the body part which allows you to feel this kind of desire/pleasure and you ARE that which that part of your body desires for. That is, it's constantly with you, part of you.
For them, becoming a woman is better in theory than in practice.

Of course, it is not always entirely sexual. There is also the psychological aspect. You may like this kind of femininity that you see on girls, and you want to emulate it, because people want to be that which they like. There may be no bodily pleasure from it, but it provides a mental pleasure.

However, it's often not pornographic in nature. The femininity that they seek to emulate includes the wearing of female clothing that covers plenty of the body, such as skirt and dresses. It's an approach that strives for pretiness over sexiness, though they may like both at least to some extent.
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Otokage
Posts: 2,352
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10/4/2014 5:19:45 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 11:50:50 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
So, to my understanding, a trans woman is a male body that identifies as a woman.

What does this mean, exactly?
What does a woman feel like internally?


Is it a desire to be a female body, or something else?
How does it differ from just being effeminate?
This boggles my mind, and I would prefer insight only from those that are transgender.

I have two TG friends, although they were women and underwent surgery in order to become men. I the inspected them psychologically in depth, as I do with all my friends! From what they told me, they felt like boys even before they were puber. It started when they felt ashamed of dressing like girls, then as teenagers they started liking girls. It was a bit of a hormonal thing too, as they felt they were more dominant, violent and sporty than most girls surrounding them. Both felt a bit depressed some time in their life as they didn't like their body, didn't like their sexual relations, and couldn't act/dress entirely like men because of social pressure.

Apparently, when they became "full men" through sugery and an hormonal treatment, they ended being much happier. Although I don't know if this is the case for every TG.
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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10/4/2014 5:48:23 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/4/2014 5:19:45 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/2/2014 11:50:50 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
So, to my understanding, a trans woman is a male body that identifies as a woman.

What does this mean, exactly?
What does a woman feel like internally?


Is it a desire to be a female body, or something else?
How does it differ from just being effeminate?
This boggles my mind, and I would prefer insight only from those that are transgender.

I have two TG friends, although they were women and underwent surgery in order to become men. I the inspected them psychologically in depth, as I do with all my friends! From what they told me, they felt like boys even before they were puber. It started when they felt ashamed of dressing like girls, then as teenagers they started liking girls. It was a bit of a hormonal thing too, as they felt they were more dominant, violent and sporty than most girls surrounding them. Both felt a bit depressed some time in their life as they didn't like their body, didn't like their sexual relations, and couldn't act/dress entirely like men because of social pressure.

Apparently, when they became "full men" through sugery and an hormonal treatment, they ended being much happier. Although I don't know if this is the case for every TG.

You say they felt like girls, and give societal "manly" aspects as evidence.
This is what don't understand.
If they were transported to a place where women were hunters and men were nurturers, would they still feel like a man?
My work here is, finally, done.
Otokage
Posts: 2,352
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10/5/2014 3:53:03 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/4/2014 5:48:23 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 10/4/2014 5:19:45 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/2/2014 11:50:50 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
So, to my understanding, a trans woman is a male body that identifies as a woman.

What does this mean, exactly?
What does a woman feel like internally?


Is it a desire to be a female body, or something else?
How does it differ from just being effeminate?
This boggles my mind, and I would prefer insight only from those that are transgender.

I have two TG friends, although they were women and underwent surgery in order to become men. I the inspected them psychologically in depth, as I do with all my friends! From what they told me, they felt like boys even before they were puber. It started when they felt ashamed of dressing like girls, then as teenagers they started liking girls. It was a bit of a hormonal thing too, as they felt they were more dominant, violent and sporty than most girls surrounding them. Both felt a bit depressed some time in their life as they didn't like their body, didn't like their sexual relations, and couldn't act/dress entirely like men because of social pressure.

Apparently, when they became "full men" through sugery and an hormonal treatment, they ended being much happier. Although I don't know if this is the case for every TG.

You say they felt like girls, and give societal "manly" aspects as evidence.
This is what don't understand.
If they were transported to a place where women were hunters and men were nurturers, would they still feel like a man?

That's a really good question. But there's also the fact that, even while very young, they didn't like to be girls and I suppose children do not really have this idea of: "men are manly and women are feminine", or do they? Also they didn't like their body and didn't like sex until they became men, although this may be related to a social cause as you have pointed out.

But with your question I wonder: is TG a mental issue triggered by the social pressure that forces us men to be masculine and women to be feminine?
Khaos_Mage
Posts: 23,214
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10/5/2014 8:42:45 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 3:53:03 AM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/4/2014 5:48:23 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 10/4/2014 5:19:45 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/2/2014 11:50:50 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
So, to my understanding, a trans woman is a male body that identifies as a woman.

What does this mean, exactly?
What does a woman feel like internally?


Is it a desire to be a female body, or something else?
How does it differ from just being effeminate?
This boggles my mind, and I would prefer insight only from those that are transgender.

I have two TG friends, although they were women and underwent surgery in order to become men. I the inspected them psychologically in depth, as I do with all my friends! From what they told me, they felt like boys even before they were puber. It started when they felt ashamed of dressing like girls, then as teenagers they started liking girls. It was a bit of a hormonal thing too, as they felt they were more dominant, violent and sporty than most girls surrounding them. Both felt a bit depressed some time in their life as they didn't like their body, didn't like their sexual relations, and couldn't act/dress entirely like men because of social pressure.

Apparently, when they became "full men" through sugery and an hormonal treatment, they ended being much happier. Although I don't know if this is the case for every TG.

You say they felt like girls, and give societal "manly" aspects as evidence.
This is what don't understand.
If they were transported to a place where women were hunters and men were nurturers, would they still feel like a man?

That's a really good question. But there's also the fact that, even while very young, they didn't like to be girls and I suppose children do not really have this idea of: "men are manly and women are feminine", or do they? Also they didn't like their body and didn't like sex until they became men, although this may be related to a social cause as you have pointed out.
Exactly, is it biological or societal?
That's why I want a trans to tell me what if feels like to be a man in a woman's body, or vice versa. I don't understand the concept.

But with your question I wonder: is TG a mental issue triggered by the social pressure that forces us men to be masculine and women to be feminine?

Where is the line between a tomboy and trans? Is there one?
My work here is, finally, done.
Otokage
Posts: 2,352
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10/5/2014 11:01:32 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 8:42:45 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 10/5/2014 3:53:03 AM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/4/2014 5:48:23 PM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
At 10/4/2014 5:19:45 PM, Otokage wrote:
At 10/2/2014 11:50:50 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
So, to my understanding, a trans woman is a male body that identifies as a woman.

What does this mean, exactly?
What does a woman feel like internally?


Is it a desire to be a female body, or something else?
How does it differ from just being effeminate?
This boggles my mind, and I would prefer insight only from those that are transgender.

I have two TG friends, although they were women and underwent surgery in order to become men. I the inspected them psychologically in depth, as I do with all my friends! From what they told me, they felt like boys even before they were puber. It started when they felt ashamed of dressing like girls, then as teenagers they started liking girls. It was a bit of a hormonal thing too, as they felt they were more dominant, violent and sporty than most girls surrounding them. Both felt a bit depressed some time in their life as they didn't like their body, didn't like their sexual relations, and couldn't act/dress entirely like men because of social pressure.

Apparently, when they became "full men" through sugery and an hormonal treatment, they ended being much happier. Although I don't know if this is the case for every TG.

You say they felt like girls, and give societal "manly" aspects as evidence.
This is what don't understand.
If they were transported to a place where women were hunters and men were nurturers, would they still feel like a man?

That's a really good question. But there's also the fact that, even while very young, they didn't like to be girls and I suppose children do not really have this idea of: "men are manly and women are feminine", or do they? Also they didn't like their body and didn't like sex until they became men, although this may be related to a social cause as you have pointed out.
Exactly, is it biological or societal?
That's why I want a trans to tell me what if feels like to be a man in a woman's body, or vice versa. I don't understand the concept.

Well probably people won't be able to tell you if it is biological or societal. Even if they told you how they feel, I doubt you would be able to reach a conclussion like that based solely on testimonies. To clear your doubts you will probably do some research on wether TGs have different genes or brain patterns, different from other people.

But with your question I wonder: is TG a mental issue triggered by the social pressure that forces us men to be masculine and women to be feminine?

Where is the line between a tomboy and trans? Is there one?

Well. To me a tomboy is just a girl that is not femenine by our standards, this is, she behaves manly to a degree. This does not mean she's a lesbian or that she wants to be a man. She just has a personality with traits like rudeness, violence, or others, that we arbitrarily associate with masculinity and men, but that are not intrinsically masculine.

A woman TG, on the contrary, is a woman that wants to be a man, because she feels entirely like a man, just trapped on a woman's body. About what "wanting to be a man" means, I don't really know to be honest, lol
hatshepsut
Posts: 72
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10/5/2014 2:05:47 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I'm not trans either. But it's nothing to do with gay, lesbian, bisexual, effeminate, or so on even though these all get lumped together as LGBT. It's not even about sexuality or who you go to bed with. Since gender is socially constructed, transgender is probably more of a social than a biological phenomenon. Here, you'll get a lot of argument on this point from TGs who think it is biological, and they have a point as far as biology and genes affect everything we are and do to an extent. Yet some cultures allow third genders that are neither male nor female. We wouldn't have "cross-dressers" if men and women normally dressed alike, as they do in a few societies. So, there is a definite relation between the elements of TG identity and social conventions on gender.

Even if social, it's still powerful enough to motivate people to the extremes of hormone replacement and surgery, because gender roles in our society can be quite confining. When an XY chromosomal male feels the "woman" gender fits his personality and soul while the "man" role fails to meet these identity needs, he may become a male-to-female TG, and then ask you to use the pronoun "she."

I don't see anything wrong with it, except for the medical costs involved, which the broader society leaves up to TG individuals thus far. That could change with political agitation to require insurance plans to cover them, however, which would convert it into a social cost. It would seem easier for our society to accept people as they desire to be, with respect to roles we currently assign to gender. Then they might not feel like they were being forced to alter their physical appearance to fit predefined roles.

That even includes our society's expectation that proper sex means penis into vagina. It's really this expectation that drives the sex change surgeries. So, why have the strict "man" and "woman" gender division to begin with? These roles are fine; they've served well historically, but I see no need to impose them on everyone. Because these identity concepts get drilled into every human baby starting with pink and blue jumpsuits, it will take a long time to change collective mental habits.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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10/5/2014 8:35:25 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I don't think it's possible to understand transgender experiences unless one pursues a thorough investigation into the social production of gender itself. Measuring trans experiences in accordance with 'normal' gender feels merely judges their experience by reference to the norm when it is specifically that norm of gender experience which is allowed to be reevaluated in light of those whose experience fall outside of our grid of intelligibility. Judith Butler's 'Gender Trouble' is extremely useful in this regard.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
dylancatlow
Posts: 12,253
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10/5/2014 8:46:49 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 8:35:25 PM, socialpinko wrote:
I don't think it's possible to understand transgender experiences unless one pursues a thorough investigation into the social production of gender itself.

By "understand", do you mean "understand the underlying causes and deeper significance of", or do you mean "know what it's like to be transgender". Because I don't think the OP was asking about the first. And if you meant the second, that's rather absurd, considering that transgenders know what it's like to be transgender without needing to "pursue a thorough investigation" of it.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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10/5/2014 9:11:21 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/5/2014 8:46:49 PM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 10/5/2014 8:35:25 PM, socialpinko wrote:
I don't think it's possible to understand transgender experiences unless one pursues a thorough investigation into the social production of gender itself.

By "understand", do you mean "understand the underlying causes and deeper significance of", or do you mean "know what it's like to be transgender". Because I don't think the OP was asking about the first.

I think the former is a more important question and that the latter is an impossibility unless one *is* trans (or otherwise not cis).

And if you meant the second, that's rather absurd, considering that transgenders know what it's like to be transgender without needing to "pursue a thorough investigation" of it.

Trans people understand themselves better than we do. That's obvious and I wasn't suggesting that it's their task to investigate these sorts of things. Rather, I was speculating on whether or not the existence of people who don't neatly fall into our society's expectations of gender doesn't indicate the possibility of a more thoroughgoing critique of gender in itself (directed at cis, rather than trans people).
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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10/8/2014 2:36:41 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
say they felt like girls, and give societal "manly" aspects as evidence.
That's a really good question. But there's also the fact that, even while very young, they didn't like to be girls and I suppose children do not really have this idea of: "men are manly and women are feminine", or do they? Also they didn't like their body and didn't like sex until they became men, although this may be related to a social cause as you have pointed out.

But with your question I wonder: is TG a mental issue triggered by the social pressure that forces us men to be masculine and women to be feminine?

Caveat: Sex, gender, transgender are complex topics, and people have different ways of understanding their gender identities. So take what's below as a general statement.

There's a lot of misconceptions going about this thread, understandably most from ignorance which is fine, so long as people recognise that. You need to understand that even the very basis of a biological sex of male and female being two separate distinct things is quite complicated and not always that basic. The basis of assigning a sex at birth is little more than a glance at genitals, which indicates nothing complete about possible complex genetic influences at work. Not to mention a number of genetic cases where a persons genitals at birth can not be easily defined either way, and usually the doctor makes a call to assign a sex based on very little, complete with basic genital surgery at birth.

Add to that, there's a wide variety of genetic factors that makes classifying male/female purely based on chromosomal XX or XY a questionable practice. Even if we expand that to include, genital morphology, gonads, hormones, and secondary sex characteristics you still end up with cases where it's clearly a cultural bias to identify someone as M or F.

http://s30.postimg.org...

What you need to understand, is that transgender is not simply a case of behaviour. Not simply a case of 'wanting to be'. There's the very real aspect of a person's assigned sex (M or F) in conflict at a genetic and hormonal level with expected behaviour.

Also on the issue of sexual dimorphism i.e. behaviours that we can say are genetically based on a biological M or F, there's very little evidence to support anything meaningful outside of base physical characteristics like height. It's largely driven by hormones and hormone responses, subject to interference both from our own bodies and from the environment and almost all metrics will overlap between sexes. So the idea that transgender is purely behavioural is all kinds of wrong. What is experienced is cultural norms of gender - what is most often seen as the expressions of transgender. So I can sort of see where people get confused about it, but it's not that hard to find information about this stuff.

As for the idea that it's a "mental issue", you need to be careful about the language being used. Yes Gender Identity Disorder is a thing, yes people should read about it, no it doesn't make it a "mental thing" in the sense that it's all in the mind. For transgender individuals it's a very real disconnect with the sex assigned at birth and the resulting cultural norms associated with it. Even male and female as a gender binary, is a western cultural concept - there are plenty of examples world wide that accommodate genders outside of the primary two.

Plenty more I could say but people should just read a whole bunch if they are interested.

http://scholar.harvard.edu...

http://www.amazon.com...

http://www.amazon.com...

http://www.amazon.com...
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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10/8/2014 2:38:27 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/2/2014 11:50:50 AM, Khaos_Mage wrote:
So, to my understanding, a trans woman is a male body that identifies as a woman.

No a transwoman was assigned male at birth and is a woman, identifies as a woman. "Male body" is a very loaded statement and the genetics of it is way more complex that XX or XY.
Otokage
Posts: 2,352
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10/8/2014 4:00:33 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/8/2014 2:36:41 AM, Puck wrote:
say they felt like girls, and give societal "manly" aspects as evidence.
That's a really good question. But there's also the fact that, even while very young, they didn't like to be girls and I suppose children do not really have this idea of: "men are manly and women are feminine", or do they? Also they didn't like their body and didn't like sex until they became men, although this may be related to a social cause as you have pointed out.

But with your question I wonder: is TG a mental issue triggered by the social pressure that forces us men to be masculine and women to be feminine?

Caveat: Sex, gender, transgender are complex topics, and people have different ways of understanding their gender identities. So take what's below as a general statement.

There's a lot of misconceptions going about this thread, understandably most from ignorance which is fine, so long as people recognise that. You need to understand that even the very basis of a biological sex of male and female being two separate distinct things is quite complicated and not always that basic. The basis of assigning a sex at birth is little more than a glance at genitals, which indicates nothing complete about possible complex genetic influences at work. Not to mention a number of genetic cases where a persons genitals at birth can not be easily defined either way, and usually the doctor makes a call to assign a sex based on very little, complete with basic genital surgery at birth.

Add to that, there's a wide variety of genetic factors that makes classifying male/female purely based on chromosomal XX or XY a questionable practice. Even if we expand that to include, genital morphology, gonads, hormones, and secondary sex characteristics you still end up with cases where it's clearly a cultural bias to identify someone as M or F.

http://s30.postimg.org...

What you need to understand, is that transgender is not simply a case of behaviour. Not simply a case of 'wanting to be'. There's the very real aspect of a person's assigned sex (M or F) in conflict at a genetic and hormonal level with expected behaviour.

Also on the issue of sexual dimorphism i.e. behaviours that we can say are genetically based on a biological M or F, there's very little evidence to support anything meaningful outside of base physical characteristics like height. It's largely driven by hormones and hormone responses, subject to interference both from our own bodies and from the environment and almost all metrics will overlap between sexes. So the idea that transgender is purely behavioural is all kinds of wrong. What is experienced is cultural norms of gender - what is most often seen as the expressions of transgender. So I can sort of see where people get confused about it, but it's not that hard to find information about this stuff.

As for the idea that it's a "mental issue", you need to be careful about the language being used. Yes Gender Identity Disorder is a thing, yes people should read about it, no it doesn't make it a "mental thing" in the sense that it's all in the mind. For transgender individuals it's a very real disconnect with the sex assigned at birth and the resulting cultural norms associated with it. Even male and female as a gender binary, is a western cultural concept - there are plenty of examples world wide that accommodate genders outside of the primary two.

Plenty more I could say but people should just read a whole bunch if they are interested.

http://scholar.harvard.edu...

http://www.amazon.com...

http://www.amazon.com...


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Hi, thanks for your response, It clarified several things. As for the mental issue, I say this because TGenderism seems a pathological condition of mind until cured (for example with surgery). I say this because the TG I met, that were just a few, have told me that before surgery they felt depressed, stressed, didn't enjoy sex, had problems building meaningful relations, etc. And that seems to me like a problem to the mental health of the individual. I didn't mean to say TGs are crazy or something like that, just pointing out that their condition as "people wanting to change their gender", seems to heavily exhaust their minds until they achieve their objective.
Puck
Posts: 6,457
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10/8/2014 4:14:24 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/8/2014 4:00:33 AM, Otokage wrote:

Hi, thanks for your response, It clarified several things. As for the mental issue, I say this because TGenderism seems a pathological condition of mind until cured (for example with surgery). I say this because the TG I met, that were just a few, have told me that before surgery they felt depressed, stressed, didn't enjoy sex, had problems building meaningful relations, etc. And that seems to me like a problem to the mental health of the individual. I didn't mean to say TGs are crazy or something like that, just pointing out that their condition as "people wanting to change their gender", seems to heavily exhaust their minds until they achieve their objective.

Again I'd caution about being careful about language usage. Someone can be transgender, that is the label. Someone can have Gender Identity Disorder - that is a condition. Dysphoria is the negative mental state, not transgender. You don't cure someone from being transgender. The surgery (which not all deem necessary) aligns sex and gender characteristics. As for mental state yes. LGBT+ individuals, in particular youth, have high rates of depression and suicide, surgery helps for a many great deal.

I know it's not what you mean, but the language is there all the same, entwined, and stating 'cure transgender' can be harmful.
mortsdor
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10/8/2014 1:56:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I think not feeling comfortable in your own body is a society based, Mind-trip, thing.. which I would be comfortable calling a mental-disorder of a sort...

like people who have body identification issues generally.

Granted that the general, societal, division of sex and gender into two discrete groupings in some (perhaps many cases) Butchers the reality of the situation..
and it would make sense that people who, naturally, don't fit into one of those two discrete groupings would be uncomfortable living in a society which tries to shove them into one of these particular boxes.

so, though there's nothing wrong (worthy of being called a disorder) with spontaneously feeling as you would, I think rejecting any aspect of how you actually, naturally are, is kind of a problem.

Though, as I said, it's an understandable (if negative) reaction to f*cked up societal constructions...
and, though I would think it would be better not to have such a problem in the first place, or to manage accepting yourself without resorting to surgery or something, I also wouldn't say that such a 'solution' is never appropriate..

if such surgery is the only/best way of what I would term the person's mental-issues it's probably worth doing..

though I would think it's benefit would be limited, and not the ideal solution.
mortsdor
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10/8/2014 1:58:38 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/8/2014 1:56:38 PM, mortsdor wrote:
if such surgery is the only/best way of *relieving what I would term the person's mental-issues it's probably worth doing..

though I would think it's benefit would be limited, and not the ideal solution.