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Is it better to be feared or loved?

Truth_seeker
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10/13/2014 2:57:07 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
I used to be on the wrong path in life and some people feared me. It takes alot of effort into instilling fear and it's never good. It's depressing and you end up alone. You don't get respect and admiration, you get hate, lose friends, and misunderstanding.

It's a whole lot better when you are loved and accepted for who you are and what you do for others. I leave the rest open for discussion.
ESocialBookworm
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10/13/2014 4:02:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
Feared
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
ESocialBookworm
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10/13/2014 4:17:05 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/13/2014 4:07:31 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Loved

Really?
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
Truth_seeker
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10/13/2014 4:20:41 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/13/2014 4:17:05 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
At 10/13/2014 4:07:31 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Loved

Really?

Lol explain. I never heard of a couple who said something like that LOL!
Truth_seeker
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10/13/2014 8:31:14 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/13/2014 4:27:26 PM, apb4y wrote:


lol i disagree, fear does not last longer than love because fear is all in a person's head. You can never enslave someone, they enslave themselves. Once they decide that they want the power to overcome then you lose all control. If you love, it completely wipes out all fear. No one can hurt you and even if they do, what's that going to do? Nothing. Eventually those who are feared end up losing once people begin standing up to them.
Blade-of-Truth
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10/14/2014 12:33:05 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/13/2014 2:57:07 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I used to be on the wrong path in life and some people feared me. It takes alot of effort into instilling fear and it's never good. It's depressing and you end up alone. You don't get respect and admiration, you get hate, lose friends, and misunderstanding.

It's a whole lot better when you are loved and accepted for who you are and what you do for others. I leave the rest open for discussion.

Have you ever read 'The Prince' by Nicolo Machiavelli?

This excerpt covers that exact question:

"Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be dispensed with. Because this is to be asserted in general of men, that they are ungrateful, fickle, false, cowardly, covetous, and as long as you succeed they are yours entirely; they will offer you their blood, property, life and children, as is said above, when the need is far distant; but when it approaches they turn against you. And that prince who, relying entirely on their promises, has neglected other precautions, is ruined; because friendships that are obtained by payments, and not by greatness or nobility of mind, may indeed be earned, but they are not secured, and in time of need cannot be relied upon; and men have less scruple in offending one who is beloved than one who is feared, for love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails."

In summation, it is better to be feared, but only if one cannot find it possible to be both.

http://www.constitution.org...
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apb4y
Posts: 480
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10/14/2014 3:00:25 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/13/2014 8:31:14 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:

lol i disagree, fear does not last longer than love because fear is all in a person's head.

So is love.

You can never enslave someone, they enslave themselves. Once they decide that they want the power to overcome then you lose all control.

Only if they can obtain that power. Hence, "If I give them too much, they don't need me. I give them just enough were they need me, but don't hate me."

If you love, it completely wipes out all fear.

WTF? No it doesn't.

No one can hurt you and even if they do, what's that going to do?

Um... destroy you?

Nothing. Eventually those who are feared end up losing once people begin standing up to them.

IF they stand up to them.
Truth_seeker
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10/14/2014 7:22:47 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/14/2014 3:00:25 AM, apb4y wrote:
At 10/13/2014 8:31:14 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:

lol i disagree, fear does not last longer than love because fear is all in a person's head.

So is love.

You can never enslave someone, they enslave themselves. Once they decide that they want the power to overcome then you lose all control.

Only if they can obtain that power. Hence, "If I give them too much, they don't need me. I give them just enough were they need me, but don't hate me."

If you love, it completely wipes out all fear.

WTF? No it doesn't.

No one can hurt you and even if they do, what's that going to do?

Um... destroy you?

Nothing. Eventually those who are feared end up losing once people begin standing up to them.

IF they stand up to them.

Adolf Hitler was feared, but look at what eventually happened to him. People started fighting against him and with that, he was the one who became afraid. Mussolini was killed in his own city by those who feared him. Gadafi's reign of terror also ended with him crawling like an animal. A bigger predator will put you in your place because we as humans make mistakes and when we screw up, people will take fully take advantage of that to screw you over. If you are loved, you know that people will support you.
18Karl
Posts: 351
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10/14/2014 7:39:49 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/13/2014 4:02:24 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
Feared

@Esocial

Not always. The input of the means is always based on what the ends is; as Machiavelli advises rulers, he would inevitably state the obvious. If I can't make you love me, then I'll make you fear me, as you fearing me is of course unconditional, but love is. If fear is your answer, then your ends is for the preservation of yourself, and not others; but if love is your answer, then your ends is for the preservation of liberty/the good of others.
praise the lord Chin Chin
18Karl
Posts: 351
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10/14/2014 7:46:17 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/14/2014 7:22:47 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 10/14/2014 3:00:25 AM, apb4y wrote:
At 10/13/2014 8:31:14 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:

lol i disagree, fear does not last longer than love because fear is all in a person's head.

So is love.

You can never enslave someone, they enslave themselves. Once they decide that they want the power to overcome then you lose all control.

Only if they can obtain that power. Hence, "If I give them too much, they don't need me. I give them just enough were they need me, but don't hate me."

If you love, it completely wipes out all fear.

WTF? No it doesn't.

No one can hurt you and even if they do, what's that going to do?

Um... destroy you?

Nothing. Eventually those who are feared end up losing once people begin standing up to them.

IF they stand up to them.

Adolf Hitler was feared, but look at what eventually happened to him. People started fighting against him and with that, he was the one who became afraid. Mussolini was killed in his own city by those who feared him. Gadafi's reign of terror also ended with him crawling like an animal. A bigger predator will put you in your place because we as humans make mistakes and when we screw up, people will take fully take advantage of that to screw you over. If you are loved, you know that people will support you.

This shows signs of someone who has been unable to study the Nazi period sufficiently, and is overwhelmed by Anti-Nazi rhetoric. Firstly, Adolf Hitler pre-WWII was perhaps the best example of how a totalitarian state, an effective one, should function. He won the love of his people through proppy, and he won fear through the reckless usage of the Gestapo. His people loved him; his regime was entirely legitimate (as it was voted with barely any opposition), for the right-wingers and the nationalist controlled 340 of the 647 seats in the Reichstag. If he had not engaged in activities of expansion, then there is always chance that his Reich would still be present today as a independent country. Gadafi's regime is also another bad example to use; why not use the example present before the Jamahiriya, when the Libyan people's economy improved (and when Gaddafi himself was still sane)? The oppression between the two periods are more or less the same.
praise the lord Chin Chin
Truth_seeker
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10/14/2014 7:48:22 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/14/2014 7:46:17 AM, 18Karl wrote:
At 10/14/2014 7:22:47 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 10/14/2014 3:00:25 AM, apb4y wrote:
At 10/13/2014 8:31:14 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:

lol i disagree, fear does not last longer than love because fear is all in a person's head.

So is love.

You can never enslave someone, they enslave themselves. Once they decide that they want the power to overcome then you lose all control.

Only if they can obtain that power. Hence, "If I give them too much, they don't need me. I give them just enough were they need me, but don't hate me."

If you love, it completely wipes out all fear.

WTF? No it doesn't.

No one can hurt you and even if they do, what's that going to do?

Um... destroy you?

Nothing. Eventually those who are feared end up losing once people begin standing up to them.

IF they stand up to them.

Adolf Hitler was feared, but look at what eventually happened to him. People started fighting against him and with that, he was the one who became afraid. Mussolini was killed in his own city by those who feared him. Gadafi's reign of terror also ended with him crawling like an animal. A bigger predator will put you in your place because we as humans make mistakes and when we screw up, people will take fully take advantage of that to screw you over. If you are loved, you know that people will support you.


This shows signs of someone who has been unable to study the Nazi period sufficiently, and is overwhelmed by Anti-Nazi rhetoric. Firstly, Adolf Hitler pre-WWII was perhaps the best example of how a totalitarian state, an effective one, should function. He won the love of his people through proppy, and he won fear through the reckless usage of the Gestapo. His people loved him; his regime was entirely legitimate (as it was voted with barely any opposition), for the right-wingers and the nationalist controlled 340 of the 647 seats in the Reichstag. If he had not engaged in activities of expansion, then there is always chance that his Reich would still be present today as a independent country. Gadafi's regime is also another bad example to use; why not use the example present before the Jamahiriya, when the Libyan people's economy improved (and when Gaddafi himself was still sane)? The oppression between the two periods are more or less the same.

I was paraphrasing and mentioning that has nothing to do with the discussion...
18Karl
Posts: 351
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10/14/2014 7:49:35 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/14/2014 7:48:22 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 10/14/2014 7:46:17 AM, 18Karl wrote:
At 10/14/2014 7:22:47 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 10/14/2014 3:00:25 AM, apb4y wrote:
At 10/13/2014 8:31:14 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:

lol i disagree, fear does not last longer than love because fear is all in a person's head.

So is love.

You can never enslave someone, they enslave themselves. Once they decide that they want the power to overcome then you lose all control.

Only if they can obtain that power. Hence, "If I give them too much, they don't need me. I give them just enough were they need me, but don't hate me."

If you love, it completely wipes out all fear.

WTF? No it doesn't.

No one can hurt you and even if they do, what's that going to do?

Um... destroy you?

Nothing. Eventually those who are feared end up losing once people begin standing up to them.

IF they stand up to them.

Adolf Hitler was feared, but look at what eventually happened to him. People started fighting against him and with that, he was the one who became afraid. Mussolini was killed in his own city by those who feared him. Gadafi's reign of terror also ended with him crawling like an animal. A bigger predator will put you in your place because we as humans make mistakes and when we screw up, people will take fully take advantage of that to screw you over. If you are loved, you know that people will support you.


This shows signs of someone who has been unable to study the Nazi period sufficiently, and is overwhelmed by Anti-Nazi rhetoric. Firstly, Adolf Hitler pre-WWII was perhaps the best example of how a totalitarian state, an effective one, should function. He won the love of his people through proppy, and he won fear through the reckless usage of the Gestapo. His people loved him; his regime was entirely legitimate (as it was voted with barely any opposition), for the right-wingers and the nationalist controlled 340 of the 647 seats in the Reichstag. If he had not engaged in activities of expansion, then there is always chance that his Reich would still be present today as a independent country. Gadafi's regime is also another bad example to use; why not use the example present before the Jamahiriya, when the Libyan people's economy improved (and when Gaddafi himself was still sane)? The oppression between the two periods are more or less the same.

I was paraphrasing and mentioning that has nothing to do with the discussion...

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apb4y
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10/14/2014 3:46:18 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/14/2014 7:22:47 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:

Adolf Hitler was feared, but look at what eventually happened to him. People started fighting against him and with that, he was the one who became afraid.

Hitler fvcked up. He let his ego blind him. As soon as Britain allied with Poland, he should have backed off to avoid open hostilities. Also, pissing off Russia is never a good idea.

Mussolini was killed in his own city by those who feared him. Gadafi's reign of terror also ended with him crawling like an animal.

Again, they fvcked up. You want to be feared, but not hated.

A bigger predator will put you in your place because we as humans make mistakes and when we screw up, people will take fully take advantage of that to screw you over.

So don't provoke bigger predators. See the part about Hitler and the Soviets.

If you are loved, you know that people will support you.

Not if they fear the other guy more than they love you.
Truth_seeker
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10/15/2014 2:21:28 AM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/14/2014 12:33:05 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 10/13/2014 2:57:07 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I used to be on the wrong path in life and some people feared me. It takes alot of effort into instilling fear and it's never good. It's depressing and you end up alone. You don't get respect and admiration, you get hate, lose friends, and misunderstanding.

It's a whole lot better when you are loved and accepted for who you are and what you do for others. I leave the rest open for discussion.

Have you ever read 'The Prince' by Nicolo Machiavelli?

This excerpt covers that exact question:

"Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be dispensed with. Because this is to be asserted in general of men, that they are ungrateful, fickle, false, cowardly, covetous, and as long as you succeed they are yours entirely; they will offer you their blood, property, life and children, as is said above, when the need is far distant; but when it approaches they turn against you. And that prince who, relying entirely on their promises, has neglected other precautions, is ruined; because friendships that are obtained by payments, and not by greatness or nobility of mind, may indeed be earned, but they are not secured, and in time of need cannot be relied upon; and men have less scruple in offending one who is beloved than one who is feared, for love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails."

In summation, it is better to be feared, but only if one cannot find it possible to be both.

http://www.constitution.org...

I think being feared is risky because not everyone is the same. Some have a strong will to the point where nothing can stop them. Lets not forget that the weak can also become strong. In order to be feared, you have to do a bunch of things that hurts your conscience in the process of trying to control people. Not all people will be afraid of you because of love built in their relationships.
Geogeer
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10/15/2014 4:04:22 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/13/2014 2:57:07 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I used to be on the wrong path in life and some people feared me. It takes alot of effort into instilling fear and it's never good. It's depressing and you end up alone. You don't get respect and admiration, you get hate, lose friends, and misunderstanding.

It's a whole lot better when you are loved and accepted for who you are and what you do for others. I leave the rest open for discussion.

That would depend on why you are feared or loved.
9spaceking
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10/15/2014 4:36:48 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
the Nicolo ruler guy says it's better to be feared.
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Blade-of-Truth
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10/15/2014 5:19:54 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/15/2014 2:21:28 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 10/14/2014 12:33:05 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 10/13/2014 2:57:07 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I used to be on the wrong path in life and some people feared me. It takes alot of effort into instilling fear and it's never good. It's depressing and you end up alone. You don't get respect and admiration, you get hate, lose friends, and misunderstanding.

It's a whole lot better when you are loved and accepted for who you are and what you do for others. I leave the rest open for discussion.

Have you ever read 'The Prince' by Nicolo Machiavelli?

This excerpt covers that exact question:

"Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be dispensed with. Because this is to be asserted in general of men, that they are ungrateful, fickle, false, cowardly, covetous, and as long as you succeed they are yours entirely; they will offer you their blood, property, life and children, as is said above, when the need is far distant; but when it approaches they turn against you. And that prince who, relying entirely on their promises, has neglected other precautions, is ruined; because friendships that are obtained by payments, and not by greatness or nobility of mind, may indeed be earned, but they are not secured, and in time of need cannot be relied upon; and men have less scruple in offending one who is beloved than one who is feared, for love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails."

In summation, it is better to be feared, but only if one cannot find it possible to be both.

http://www.constitution.org...

I think being feared is risky because not everyone is the same. Some have a strong will to the point where nothing can stop them. Lets not forget that the weak can also become strong. In order to be feared, you have to do a bunch of things that hurts your conscience in the process of trying to control people. Not all people will be afraid of you because of love built in their relationships.

Well, I think that his opinions/lessons would be more applicable in those times compared to ours, also, we must take in account that we are not princes. It's a different social dynamic when we are, ourselves, common people instead of the intended audience for his lessons which at the time was Lorenzo de' Medici, then-governor of Florence.

I wouldn't agree that doing things that instill fear "hurts your conscience"... if you are intending to instill fear, then it's reasonable to assume someone has mentally prepared themselves to accept that price. Like, I wouldn't regret doing so if it was my intention to do so. You can't live life in regret.

I also wouldn't agree with "not all people will be afraid of you because of love built in their relationship"... you can strip someone of that. Kill everyone they ever loved right in-front of them, psychologically break them to the point where they detach from their previously-known reality. It's dark, but possible. I think that love could actually be the best way to instill fear if such things are threatened.
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Truth_seeker
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10/16/2014 9:46:24 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/15/2014 5:19:54 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 10/15/2014 2:21:28 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 10/14/2014 12:33:05 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 10/13/2014 2:57:07 PM, Truth_seeker wrote:
I used to be on the wrong path in life and some people feared me. It takes alot of effort into instilling fear and it's never good. It's depressing and you end up alone. You don't get respect and admiration, you get hate, lose friends, and misunderstanding.

It's a whole lot better when you are loved and accepted for who you are and what you do for others. I leave the rest open for discussion.

Have you ever read 'The Prince' by Nicolo Machiavelli?

This excerpt covers that exact question:

"Upon this a question arises: whether it be better to be loved than feared or feared than loved? It may be answered that one should wish to be both, but, because it is difficult to unite them in one person, is much safer to be feared than loved, when, of the two, either must be dispensed with. Because this is to be asserted in general of men, that they are ungrateful, fickle, false, cowardly, covetous, and as long as you succeed they are yours entirely; they will offer you their blood, property, life and children, as is said above, when the need is far distant; but when it approaches they turn against you. And that prince who, relying entirely on their promises, has neglected other precautions, is ruined; because friendships that are obtained by payments, and not by greatness or nobility of mind, may indeed be earned, but they are not secured, and in time of need cannot be relied upon; and men have less scruple in offending one who is beloved than one who is feared, for love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails."

In summation, it is better to be feared, but only if one cannot find it possible to be both.

http://www.constitution.org...

I think being feared is risky because not everyone is the same. Some have a strong will to the point where nothing can stop them. Lets not forget that the weak can also become strong. In order to be feared, you have to do a bunch of things that hurts your conscience in the process of trying to control people. Not all people will be afraid of you because of love built in their relationships.

Well, I think that his opinions/lessons would be more applicable in those times compared to ours, also, we must take in account that we are not princes. It's a different social dynamic when we are, ourselves, common people instead of the intended audience for his lessons which at the time was Lorenzo de' Medici, then-governor of Florence.

I wouldn't agree that doing things that instill fear "hurts your conscience"... if you are intending to instill fear, then it's reasonable to assume someone has mentally prepared themselves to accept that price. Like, I wouldn't regret doing so if it was my intention to do so. You can't live life in regret.

I also wouldn't agree with "not all people will be afraid of you because of love built in their relationship"... you can strip someone of that. Kill everyone they ever loved right in-front of them, psychologically break them to the point where they detach from their previously-known reality. It's dark, but possible. I think that love could actually be the best way to instill fear if such things are threatened.

while that may be true, it won't work for everyone. There are people with a will so strong that no matter what you do to them (stalk, threaten, torture, kill, etc.), it won't stop them. Especially not killing their family. I think that's why Islamic terrorists were able to risk their lives at the cost of blowing themselves up. Honestly, my own faith has made me a stronger person than before. Looking back on the persecution of Christians, i would not care what people do to me. My mom doesn't really care if she dies for her faith either, she will never renounce it and neither will i.
Maikuru
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10/16/2014 11:33:03 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/15/2014 2:21:41 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 10/14/2014 7:14:40 PM, Maikuru wrote:
Loved

Why?

I'm a gentle soul.
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Truth_seeker
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10/16/2014 11:33:30 PM
Posted: 2 years ago
At 10/16/2014 11:33:03 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 10/15/2014 2:21:41 AM, Truth_seeker wrote:
At 10/14/2014 7:14:40 PM, Maikuru wrote:
Loved

Why?

I'm a gentle soul.

That explains everything lol.